Thailand criminality on the rise?

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, it is not, BBL is whatever you set it at, it is not limited to B50k per day, mine is still set at B500k per day maximum.

OK, if say so.  I was told 50k @ 2x25s, and more than enough for me a day.  We are talking about ATM, and will only spit out 25 at a time.  I'm not waiting to do 20 ATM transactions.  That would really be rude also.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, it is not, BBL is whatever you set it at, it is not limited to B50k per day, mine is still set at B500k per day maximum.

OK, if say so.  I was told 50k @ 2x25s, and more than enough for me a day.  We are talking about ATM, and will only spit out 25 at a time.  I'm not waiting to do 20 ATM transactions.  That would really be rude also.

Daily transfer amounts to same bank, vs daily transfer amounts to different banks, vs daily withdrawal limits, vs ATM per time withdrawal limit....   all slightly different, all can be set with mobile or online banking except the daily ATM per time withdrawal. 

 

 

I have two accounts: 

One with more money in it, the card is in my Safe. 

Another account, with far less (about 5000 baht in it), I top that up with mobile banking as and when needed - this is the card I have in my wallet. 

 

If I loose the card or in the case of the Op someone wants to Rob me, my account shows I’m not much of a target... they’re probably better of knicking my phone !

 

That said, this sort of confrontational crime in Thailand is exceptionally rare. It is far more common to hear of a mobile phone snatch, a necklace or a handbag snatch by a passing motorcyclist - usually against women who either present themselves as easier targets or simply are easier targets because the men who commit the crimes are cowards. 

 

Either way - if you are on your own in a dark area away from the main streets using an ATM at 2am you may be making yourself a target. 

 

 

 

 

[Gecko123]

@gejohesch I'd be down at the bank looking at the ATM camera footage right now if I were you. What's the hold up? (no pun intended). And what about the key question about where the funds in her account came from? Is there any moral hazard (a reason for her to assume you would replace the funds if they were lost or stolen)?

 

I'm sorry to anyone who after reading this thinks I am a cynical monster, but I really am not. Let's just say that despite a life time of studying human nature and the human heart, in regards to a Thai woman's capacity to engage in histrionics, likay, intrigue, and, if necessary, bald-faced lying when circumstances demand deception be engaged in, I do not feel I have even begun to fully plumb the depths or scratch the surface of that capacity.

 

That may sound like a horribly misogynistic comment, but it is absolutely not meant to be. There is just simply a cultural blind spot or a failure of Western men's emotional vocabulary which makes it very difficult to read and interpret what's going on in the heart and mind of a Thai woman when she finds the truth is too difficult to deal with.

 

Of course I don't know what's going on in this situation, and I am not implying in any way that I think your wife is not telling the truth. But, nevertheless, I would be cautious about relying solely on ordinary perceptions, judgment, and intuition in situations like these.

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Gecko123

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Gecko123 said:

@gejohesch I'd be down at the bank looking at the ATM camera footage right now if I were you. What's the hold up? (no pun intended). And what about the key question about where the funds in her account came from? Is there any moral hazard (a reason for her to assume you would replace the funds if they were lost or stolen)

 

I'm sorry to anyone after reading this who thinks I am a cynical monster, but let's just say that despite a life time of studying human nature and the human heart, in regards to a Thai woman's capacity to engage in histrionics, likay, intrigue, and, if necessary, bald-faced lying when circumstances demand that deception be engaged in, I do not feel I have even begun to fully plumb the depths or scratch the surface of that capacity.

 

That may sound like a horribly misogynistic comment, but it is absolutely not meant to be. There is just simply a cultural blind spot or a failure of Western men's emotional vocabulary which makes it very difficult to read and interpret what's going on in the heart and mind of a Thai woman when she finds the truth is too difficult to deal with. Of course I don't know what's going on in this situation, and I am not implying in any way that I think your wife is not telling the truth. But, nevertheless, I would be cautious about relying solely on ordinary perceptions, judgment, and intuition in situations like these.

A very carefully worded response, the underlying tones of which are not surprising when we live in a country / society where a lot of the relationships originate in a financial transaction of sorts or the attracting factor was financial security. 

 

A country where every foreigner thinks everyone else’s missus is an ex-ho or an occupational farang hunter !! brutal, but not far off the mark in many cases.... But, also very far off the mark in many cases - there is definitely no one size fits all example. 

 

Only the Op knows if he’s pulling the wool over his own eyes....  The story does not sound completely unfeasible. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gecko123]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A very carefully worded response, the underlying tones of which are not surprising when we live in a country / society where a lot of the relationships originate in a financial transaction of sorts or the attracting factor was financial security. 

 

A country where every foreigner thinks everyone else’s missus is an ex-ho or an occupational farang hunter !! brutal, but not far off the mark in many cases.... But, also very far off the mark in many cases - there is definitely no one size fits all example. 

 

Only the Op knows if he’s pulling the wool over his own eyes....  The story does not sound completely unfeasible. 

 

 

 

 

 

You have struck the bar girl vs hi-so theme many times in the past but I believe what I wrote is applicable on a broad cultural level rather than limited to any particular socioeconomic group.

[roo860]

18 hours ago, digbeth said:

get the media involved, if you only report to the police nothing could happen, if you have the popular thai talking heads involved things will starts rolling, start from the local reporter they're sitting around waiting for things to happen, your wife's story will be the most exiting thing they have this week, start there and kick it up to national news 

Too right, the nightly news seems to consist of people removing a snake from a toilet or someone tripping up, with bells and whistles for sound effects!

[gejohesch]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

That may sound like a horribly misogynistic comment, but it is absolutely not meant to be. There is just simply a cultural blind spot or a failure of Western men's emotional vocabulary which makes it very difficult to read and interpret what's going on in the heart and mind of a Thai woman when she finds the truth is too difficult to deal with.

 

Of course I don't know what's going on in this situation, and I am not implying in any way that I think your wife is not telling the truth. But, nevertheless, I would be cautious about relying solely on ordinary perceptions, judgment, and intuition in situations like these.

 

Perfectly valid comments, thanks

[gejohesch]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Just mulling this over some more...

 

It's just a very poor choice of a target unless you know the target and know they have a substantial balance. But how would anybody know this in advance? Just because a Thai woman is married to a foreigner doesn't mean that she has a hefty bank balance; the husband might control everything. 

 

Plus you're using a gun out on the street out in the open, so if anybody happens to approach or pass by or observe you from across the street while the withdrawals are being completed, there's a risk the victim could cry out, or alert people that a robbery was taking place. Wearing masks are going to attract attention, and there's a risk that your getaway vehicle could be identified, photographed, or captured on CCTV camera. Risk of getting caught: fairly high; risk of low payoff: fairly high as well.

 

I can think of a lot of stick up targets which would probably be easier and yield a better payoff: gas stations, 7-11's, isolated restaurants, even trying to rob the bank itself. The poor choice of target suggests to me a lack of preparation and planning, perhaps driven by desperation, possibly a drug addiction.

 

But, then, why a three person team? Maybe one person to do the stick-up, and a second to drive the getaway car, but three people? That seems to complicate things, especially the getaway. Three people could get on a motorcycle, but kind of slows you down a bit, doesn't it?  And a woman was involved, presumably a girlfriend or wife? Entirely possible, but sounds unusual to me.

 

 

“It's just a very poor choice of a target unless you know the target and know they have a substantial balance. But how would anybody know this in advance? Just because a Thai woman is married to a foreigner doesn't mean that she has a hefty bank balance; the husband might control everything. “

You could say the same about anyone pulling a knife or a gun on you in a quiet street in NYC, Paris, London, wherever : how would the mugger know in advance the person being mugged hasn’t got just 5 bucks in his/her wallet?

 

 

 

“Plus you're using a gun out on the street out in the open, so if anybody happens to approach or pass by or observe you from across the street while the withdrawals are being completed, there's a risk the victim could cry out, or alert people that a robbery was taking place. Wearing masks are going to attract attention, and there's a risk that your getaway vehicle could be identified, photographed, or captured on CCTV camera. Risk of getting caught: fairly high; risk of low payoff: fairly high as well.”

 

Firstly, my wife’s bank is in a quiet side street any time of the day and of the week, and that happened on a Sunday. The muggers could just have pulled the masks on at the last moment. As for the risk of their vehicle being identified, that’s not taking into account the lack of logic typical in the country.

 

 

 

“I can think of a lot of stick up targets which would probably be easier and yield a better payoff: gas stations, 7-11's, isolated restaurants, even trying to rob the bank itself. The poor choice of target suggests to me a lack of preparation and planning, perhaps driven by desperation, possibly a drug addiction.”

 

Lack of preparation sounds very much true for lots of Thais. Act of desperation, as I said, times have become exceptionally tough for many, loss of jobs due to COVID etc.

 

 

 

“But, then, why a three person team? Maybe one person to do the stick-up, and a second to drive the getaway car, but three people? That seems to complicate things, especially the getaway. Three people could get on a motorcycle, but kind of slows you down a bit, doesn't it?  And a woman was involved, presumably a girlfriend or wife? Entirely possible, but sounds unusual to me.”

 

That is just too much like the logical reasoning of a Farang, sorry to say. Thais don’t normally go through all these thoughts.

[gejohesch]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

A very carefully worded response, the underlying tones of which are not surprising when we live in a country / society where a lot of the relationships originate in a financial transaction of sorts or the attracting factor was financial security. 

 

A country where every foreigner thinks everyone else’s missus is an ex-ho or an occupational farang hunter !! brutal, but not far off the mark in many cases.... But, also very far off the mark in many cases - there is definitely no one size fits all example. 

 

Only the Op knows if he’s pulling the wool over his own eyes....  The story does not sound completely unfeasible. 

 

 

 

 

 

Good comments. To be frank, I also have doubts and I'm weighing the pro's and con's of the incident as I have it related to me. I perfectly understand the skepticism of many above, even the cynicism. However, let me say my wife is an absolutely lovely person, I did not pick her up in a bar or club or any "hunting ground for Farangs" and we have over 13 years of happy life together already. She knows full well that if she really needs money, she can ask me and I will be there to help. Why on earth would she take the risk of throwing all that out and concoct a stupid story just to get me to replace 50,000 THB that would allegedly be stolen from her? That absolutely does not make sense.

 

But one thing I know after so many years living (and at times working) with these people is that we (Farangs) will never truly understand them.

[Gecko123]

@gejoheschall valid counter points, although I would give Thai criminals more credit for weighing the risk/reward equation fairly carefully whenever possible.

 

Can you think of any reason your wife might have been singled out or targeted? For example, her attire, the vehicle she drove to the ATM, or if there was a general perception in the community that she/you were particularly wealthy?

 

P.S. I'm just asking rhetorically, no need to answer if you'd rather not.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Gecko123

[gejohesch]

18 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

@gejoheschall valid counter points, although I would give Thai criminals more credit for weighing the risk/reward equation fairly carefully whenever possible.

 

Can you think of any reason your wife might have been singled out or targeted? For example, her attire, the vehicle she drove to the ATM, or if there was a general perception in the community that she/you were particularly wealthy?

 

P.S. I'm just asking rhetorically, no need to answer if you'd rather not.

She drives a Honda City, granted it's not a Ferrari nor a Porsche, but it's very well maintained. She always dresses very neatly. Often wearing traditional clothes which make her look like a princess. People often address her when walking in town because she looks so good (and she is very pretty too).  Over the years, many must have understood that she has more money than the average.

[Gecko123]

@gejohesch

 

I think that traditional attire could mark someone as having wealth, especially if they wore that type of attire everyday. I see that attire at weddings and special events, but almost never in every day life. That attire is signaling that she does not do farm labor, and I can imagine that some farm laborers might suspect that she might think she was better than them, and be jealous or resent her because of this.

 

This rainy season saw a lot of flooding in many parts of Thailand, including Isaan, and I've noticed in my area in Central Thailand that a lot of farmers did not plant a late rainy season crop which they usually do, plus a lot of crops were damaged in the floods and had to be harvested prematurely and at a loss. That has cut down on the demand for farm labor, and hurt farm incomes.

 

Some people in the tourism sector probably went back to the family farm hoping it would just be temporary until the tourism trade picked up. The combination of the flooding, fewer late season crops and a poor start to the tourist season might be driving some people to the brink. I don't know how big a town you live in, but unless it's a major city, it probably wouldn't take long for your wife to become recognized by sight as being married to a foreigner, and some people might rationalize mugging her because she had a presumably affluent husband to fall back on. Just as the guidebooks recommend tourists not to flaunt their wealth, your wife might want to tone down the elegance of her attire a bit in order to stand out less. My guess is that might be a hard sell, but I'm sure she will agree that her personal safety should take precedence over fashion.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Gecko123

[billd766]

4 hours ago, gejohesch said:

Thanks.

 

And for those who come with that stupid "sick buffalo" scam, please can you stop? It is so tiring to keep hearing those stupid stories from people who think they know everything about Thailand. Similar to people coming back with stupid expressions like "same same but different" which they think shows how clever they are about Thailand. People who most of the time can not say more than 1 dozen words in Thai - half of which would not even be intelligible.

I get the same when I read comments like ALL Thais are stupid/thieves/chasers after the sick buffalo/can't be trusted with "MY" money, only want me for what I am worth, her "brother" is really her husband, lover or boyfriend, etc.

 

Granted there are some Thai women like that but the majority of wives in a long term relationship are NOT like that. I put those comments down to the farang losers.

 

Neither do that many bar girls have 2, 3 or more farang boyfriends during the same period of time. I put that down to barstool urban legends.

[robblok]

5 hours ago, gejohesch said:

Thanks.

 

And for those who come with that stupid "sick buffalo" scam, please can you stop? It is so tiring to keep hearing those stupid stories from people who think they know everything about Thailand. Similar to people coming back with stupid expressions like "same same but different" which they think shows how clever they are about Thailand. People who most of the time can not say more than 1 dozen words in Thai - half of which would not even be intelligible.

Its a possibility, it happens, but you know your wife best. Its just a strange story, holding up someone near ATM (atms have cams) and making double withdrawal. All possible of course just sounds a bit off that is why people speculate. 

 

But then again if your wife is really distressed and you know its not fake then that lends credibility. Depends also on how active she is with the police. My ex was once robbed and pulled behind a motorbike (tour guide with a lot of money from guests). She really did a lot to get the police to work and was on it all the time.

 

If the police stays totally silent and you can't get like bank footage id start to doubt otherwise it is as she says it is.

[robblok]

29 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I get the same when I read comments like ALL Thais are stupid/thieves/chasers after the sick buffalo/can't be trusted with "MY" money, only want me for what I am worth, her "brother" is really her husband, lover or boyfriend, etc.

 

Granted there are some Thai women like that but the majority of wives in a long term relationship are NOT like that. I put those comments down to the farang losers.

 

Neither do that many bar girls have 2, 3 or more farang boyfriends during the same period of time. I put that down to barstool urban legends.

You forget how much pressure Thai wives can be under, my ex had to constantly shield me from money requests. Other ex tried anything on me and of course always came up with the family thing. Sometimes woman can do stupid things when family is pushing. It happens. 

 

In the end this will be cleared up easily a bank has a cam and that will be proof of it happening or not. 

[bkk6060]

How terrible sure glad I live in a safe place like Pattaya.

[gejohesch]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

@gejohesch

 

I think that traditional attire could mark someone as having wealth, especially if they wore that type of attire everyday. I see that attire at weddings and special events, but almost never in every day life. That attire is signaling that she does not do farm labor, and I can imagine that some farm laborers might suspect that she might think she was better than them, and be jealous or resent her because of this.

 

This rainy season saw a lot of flooding in many parts of Thailand, including Isaan, and I've noticed in my area in Central Thailand that a lot of farmers did not plant a late rainy season crop which they usually do, plus a lot of crops were damaged in the floods and had to be harvested prematurely and at a loss. That has cut down on the demand for farm labor, and hurt farm incomes.

 

Some people in the tourism sector probably went back to the family farm hoping it would just be temporary until the tourism trade picked up. The combination of the flooding, fewer late season crops and a poor start to the tourist season might be driving some people to the brink. I don't know how big a town you live in, but unless it's a major city, it probably wouldn't take long for your wife to become recognized by sight as being married to a foreigner, and some people might rationalize mugging her because she had a presumably affluent husband to fall back on. Just as the guidebooks recommend tourists not to flaunt their wealth, your wife might want to tone down the elegance of her attire a bit in order to stand out less. My guess is that might be a hard sell, but I'm sure she will agree that her personal safety should take precedence over fashion.

All very true. With that traditional attire she wears quite often, she looks nearly aristocratic, and yes, it's not a big town, lots of people have seen her around, often with me. There is only one small step from there to think that she was identified as a good target.

 

She's been again to the police today btw, and they got the recordings from the CCTV cameras. I hear it's not the first time sthg like that happens around here...

[gejohesch]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

I get the same when I read comments like ALL Thais are stupid/thieves/chasers after the sick buffalo/can't be trusted with "MY" money, only want me for what I am worth, her "brother" is really her husband, lover or boyfriend, etc.

 

Granted there are some Thai women like that but the majority of wives in a long term relationship are NOT like that. I put those comments down to the farang losers.

 

Neither do that many bar girls have 2, 3 or more farang boyfriends during the same period of time. I put that down to barstool urban legends.

Well said!

 

Like everywhere else, there are good and bad apples. It just happens, I think, that bad apples tend to be worse and good apples tend to be sweeter in Thailand. My wife is a very sweet one, at least that's my perception after many years of relationship.

Edited November 22, 2021 by gejohesch

[gejohesch]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Its a possibility, it happens, but you know your wife best. Its just a strange story, holding up someone near ATM (atms have cams) and making double withdrawal. All possible of course just sounds a bit off that is why people speculate. 

 

But then again if your wife is really distressed and you know its not fake then that lends credibility. Depends also on how active she is with the police. My ex was once robbed and pulled behind a motorbike (tour guide with a lot of money from guests). She really did a lot to get the police to work and was on it all the time.

 

If the police stays totally silent and you can't get like bank footage id start to doubt otherwise it is as she says it is.

Sure, it's a strange story. But all that logic about cams ATM's etc, again that's farang logic. Thais are so different from Farangs (like me). One thing I've noticed over the years is that they tend to be over-confident and tend not to think too much about consequences (how else would you explain all those road accidents?). A long time ago, I lived in Nigeria and got to hear all those stories about how some Nigerians buy "juju" medicine they think will make them invisible to the police and to customs when they carry drugs. Anyone who has lived there knows that at least part of those stories are true. Just to say how over-confident to the point of total absurdity people in other cultures can be.

[DBath]

On 11/21/2021 at 1:29 PM, thaiman said:

Which bank allows 50k withdrawl in one day?

Most banks will, except if you’re a ‘cheap Charlie’ with no credit or not smart enough to arrange a higher limit. 

[RJRS1301]

On 11/22/2021 at 12:38 AM, gejohesch said:

Thanks, as you can imagine she feels rather destroyed. Thais tend to be more emotional than us "cold-blooded farangs". Yes, I told her many times to be careful but things happen....

Surely CCTV outside bank near ATM?

[ColeBOzbourne]

16 hours ago, gejohesch said:

She's been again to the police today btw, and they got the recordings from the CCTV cameras.

Maybe I missed it somewhere but, just out of curiosity, are you actually in Thailand at the moment or possibly back in your own country. From most of your comments I had the feeling you were not here now, and found it interesting that you did not go to the police station with her. Are you in Thailand helping her through this now, or is she relaying all this to you long distance?

[Liverpool Lou]

23 hours ago, KhunLA said:

On 11/22/2021 at 11:45 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

No, it is not, BBL is whatever you set it at, it is not limited to B50k per day, mine is still set at B500k per day maximum.

OK, if say so.  I was told 50k @ 2x25s, and more than enough for me a day.  We are talking about ATM,

I know that we're talking about ATM withdrawals.  The daily cash limit is what you set it at regardless of the ATM's dispensing limit, per withdrawal.

[digbeth]

49 minutes ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

Maybe I missed it somewhere but, just out of curiosity, are you actually in Thailand at the moment or possibly back in your own country. From most of your comments I had the feeling you were not here now, and found it interesting that you did not go to the police station with her. Are you in Thailand helping her through this now, or is she relaying all this to you long distance?

I wonder too, if they police won't act, there are ways to make them if it was as serious as she claimed 

[KhunLA]

24 minutes ago, digbeth said:

I wonder too, if they police won't act, there are ways to make them if it was as serious as she claimed 

3 people 'masked' ... what do you expect the police to do, besides checking out any available CCTV ?

 

And 'ways to make them' ... ????

Edited November 23, 2021 by KhunLA

[gejohesch]

2 hours ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

Maybe I missed it somewhere but, just out of curiosity, are you actually in Thailand at the moment or possibly back in your own country. From most of your comments I had the feeling you were not here now, and found it interesting that you did not go to the police station with her. Are you in Thailand helping her through this now, or is she relaying all this to you long distance?

I am not in Thailand right now, going back there in a few weeks. Are you insinuating sthg?

[RafPinto]

On 11/21/2021 at 7:29 PM, thaiman said:

Which bank allows 50k withdrawl in one day?

ATM Farangistan

[RafPinto]

This poor guy was also robbed but he doesn't dare to tell his wife or the police about 555

[digbeth]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

3 people 'masked' ... what do you expect the police to do, besides checking out any available CCTV ?

 

And 'ways to make them' ... ????

There are many ways to make the police get their act together, asking nicely by someone higher up, lubricating with incentives, or their inaction being covered by media is starting to make their higher up uncomfortable,

 

without connections or cash, media is your best option, it don't even have to be the police bad, won't do anything angle, it could be ooh. look at scary robber in front of ATM

 

You'd be surprise how effective Thai police can be if there are right motivation, suddenly somebody's that's got gambling debt just paid off, Somchai just bought loads of gold at Big C without winning the lottery, and if it's a small town  

[Gecko123]

2 hours ago, gejohesch said:

I am not in Thailand right now, going back there in a few weeks. Are you insinuating sthg?

The fact that you weren't in town while this robbery took place does raise some questions such as how long you have been out of town, and whether you are away on business frequently or for prolonged periods of time while your wife is in Thailand on her own. The significance of this should be obvious: idle hands, and all that. You portrayed your marriage as very solid and happy, but I'm wonder if you're away from Thailand or separated from her for periods of time how confident you can be that nothing's going on while you're not around.

 

You also made a comment about guys who 'can barely say 10 words in Thai' which kind of implied that your Thai was at least half-decent. But if you're in and out of Thailand frequently, it's pretty hard to build and maintain language skills. During the pandemic I think everyone's foreign language skills have deteriorated because no one wants to engage in conversation, and everyone's wearing a N-95 mask. Could you read a typed police report if you needed to?

 

I've seen more than a few marriages over the last 20 years living in Thailand where a significant language barrier persists for years and years into the marriage, and let's just say, everything's not always as hunky dory as the hubby imagines.

 

Just one last thing. In going back over your earlier posts, you described where you live as a "relatively peaceful little town." You don't really say just small it is, but in my opinion, the smaller the town, the less likely it is that an armed robbery like that would occur, because the more likely it is that the perpetrators were from the surrounding area. Because everyone knows everyone in a small town, and outsiders draw attention, even wearing masks, they could potentially be identified just by their height, build, clothing, voice, or getaway vehicle. I live in a small village, official population maybe 4500 people, but the number actually living here at any time is probably closer to 2000. I absolutely cannot imagine an armed robbery at an ATM taking place here.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Gecko123