Pattaya City officials say they continue to work to solve problems with overpopulation of street dogs in the area

[Geoffggi]

8 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Not correct.

If you go in and cull a population -of say 100.000 dogs.

you first problem is HOW.

Poisoning kills all sorts of other wildlife

Shooting is not guaranteed effective - you end up with wounded animals crawling into places and dying later and you have tens of thousands of carcasses to dispose of. This is a serious logistics problem. furthermore do you want people firing live ammo in an urban environment?

There is also the certainty of a public outcry in Thailand as shown in BKK a few years back.

Those are just some of the immediate problems.

however this is then followed by the second wave.

If you remove a lot of dogs from an area, they are quickly replaced with dogs from adjacent areas and the rate of breeding will rise as well. 

you then end up with dogs from a wider area coming into your "culled" area and bring with them diseases such as rabies and also they may not be neutered and vaccinated so diseases spread thyoughboth dog and human population.

On a world scale culling only works on relatively small and isolated populations such as those on islands. Even then care has t be taken not to introduce new animals into the area.

This is government thinking, feral dogs used to be a problem in the UK but not any more, there are way too many feral dogs & cats here in Thailand and they need to do something about it sooner rather than later - End of !!!

[Thunglom]

Just now, Geoffggi said:

This is government thinking, feral dogs used to be a problem in the UK but not any more, there are way too many feral dogs & cats here in Thailand and they need to do something about it sooner rather than later - End of !!!

Think bout it - loads of countries have had feral dog problems, in the UK it peaked around late Victorian times. Then public health measures the public became more aware.

covid has brought about a wave of pet buying in the UK and this has lead to an increase in stray dogs.

 

however there are some crucial difference in Thailand.

To have a dog population the dogs need food - and dogs primarily feed of rubbish/garbage. In Thailand were is a secondary problem of feeding dogs as people hope it makes merit.

 

To curb the dog population the first step is CNVR capture neuter, vaccinate release.  - release is important as it stops the dog's place being filed by another.

the next major thing to do is cut off the supply of food. This is a public health issue and requires a better garbage disposal regime - from bins used by business to collection and dumping. If the dogs can't access food the population will start to shrink - and the dogs will even stop breeding.

Te other side of the food supply are the merit-making general public who think they are being kind to animals by feeding them - all they are doing is promoting the growth of the population.

any Thai people also quite like a few dogs hanging around in their Soi and put food out every morning - their reasoning is they keep crime down by barking and chasing singers away. (including joggers and anyone passing through on a bike.

 

[Geoffggi]

1 minute ago, Thunglom said:

Think bout it - loads of countries have had feral dog problems, in the UK it peaked around late Victorian times. Then public health measures the public became more aware.

covid has brought about a wave of pet buying in the UK and this has lead to an increase in stray dogs.

 

however there are some crucial difference in Thailand.

To have a dog population the dogs need food - and dogs primarily feed of rubbish/garbage. In Thailand were is a secondary problem of feeding dogs as people hope it makes merit.

 

To curb the dog population the first step is CNVR capture neuter, vaccinate release.  - release is important as it stops the dog's place being filed by another.

the next major thing to do is cut off the supply of food. This is a public health issue and requires a better garbage disposal regime - from bins used by business to collection and dumping. If the dogs can't access food the population will start to shrink - and the dogs will even stop breeding.

Te other side of the food supply are the merit-making general public who think they are being kind to animals by feeding them - all they are doing is promoting the growth of the population.

any Thai people also quite like a few dogs hanging around in their Soi and put food out every morning - their reasoning is they keep crime down by barking and chasing singers away. (including joggers and anyone passing through on a bike.

 

In your mind I suppose you think you are correct, in my mind these methods have been going on here for years to no avail, it needs a more direct approach and that is my final conclusion.

 

[morrobay]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

Not correct.

If you go in and cull a population -of say 100.000 dogs.

you first problem is HOW.

Poisoning kills all sorts of other wildlife

Shooting is not guaranteed effective - you end up with wounded animals crawling into places and dying later and you have tens of thousands of carcasses to dispose of. This is a serious logistics problem. furthermore do you want people firing live ammo in an urban environment?

There is also the certainty of a public outcry in Thailand as shown in BKK a few years back.

Those are just some of the immediate problems.

however this is then followed by the second wave.

If you remove a lot of dogs from an area, they are quickly replaced with dogs from adjacent areas and the rate of breeding will rise as well. 

you then end up with dogs from a wider area coming into your "culled" area and bring with them diseases such as rabies and also they may not be neutered and vaccinated so diseases spread thyoughboth dog and human population.

On a world scale culling only works on relatively small and isolated populations such as those on islands. Even then care has t be taken not to introduce new animals into the area.

Drive me around in the back of a pickup with a 12 gauge  and I'll take care of the dog problem. And with 00 buckshot there won't be any just wounded.

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, morrobay said:

Drive me around in the back of a pickup with a 12 gauge  and I'll take care of the dog problem. And with 00 buckshot there won't be any just wounded.

Once someone actually did something about all the dogs at the end of my street, they all vanished, it was great. Then I guess someone complained because a few days later, they were all back!

[Thunglom]

10 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

In your mind I suppose you think you are correct, in my mind these methods have been going on here for years to no avail, it needs a more direct approach and that is my final conclusion.

 

Spay and neuter is the only proven, sustainable and humane method of reducing the stray animal population.

It's not my mind -I'm using information that is generally available to all who care to look it up.

This system has been shown to work all over te world. It has also been implement successfully in Phuket and is a long term project in Bangkok - where they are aiming to CNVR 680,000 dogs. To get information on this and other projects, you can contact the Soi Dog Foundation who ae the key organisation in Thailand working on this problem. They have also recently  been working on the Samui archipelago.

however if the system isn't implemented correctly or is damaged by interference of others then it either slows or doesn't work.

As I said earlier, I haven't got figures for Pattaya, but personal anecdotal evidence cannot definitively confirm the scheme is or isn't working.

It is worth noting however that problems like this aren't solved overnight - they take several years. I also don't know what effect Covid and Covid restrictions may have had on the carrying out of these measures.

[sead]

Idiots. Feeding them makes them breed. 

[Thunglom]

10 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

This is government thinking, feral dogs used to be a problem in the UK but not any more, there are way too many feral dogs & cats here in Thailand and they need to do something about it sooner rather than later - End of !!!

 

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Once someone actually did something about all the dogs at the end of my street, they all vanished, it was great. Then I guess someone complained because a few days later, they were all back!

Culls can't work.

If you KILL the dogs - what happens is that within a few days the space they occupied is taken up by dogs from adjacent zones.

Dogs can breed from about the age of 6 months to a year old, pregnancy lasts about 2 months and a bitch will usually have about 6 pups....this can be up to 12!

A bitch living unsupervised, can have up to 3 litters a year and can continue this until ill health prevents it from happening........ this could mean over a dozen litters or so 

[Thunglom]

11 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

This is government thinking, feral dogs used to be a problem in the UK but not any more, there are way too many feral dogs & cats here in Thailand and they need to do something about it sooner rather than later - End of !!!

There was no sudden cull in the UK - and the last cull in Bangkok they killed 200 dogs per day - meaning if no new dogs came along it would take about 10years

Edited December 14, 2021 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

BTW - "feral" is not really a good description of the dogs in Thailand. Soi dogs are not all the same, they are "free roaming" but fall into various categories such as "Stray", "Owned" and  “Community”

 

Domestic dogs (which is what Soi Dogs are) are neotenic, or "forever immature", which means that even though they are genetically within the same species as wolves, adult dogs only display the physical characteristics and the brain size of very young wolf pups.  When a puppy is brought into a person's home as a pet, it immediately becomes a member of the "human pack", and its only role in the human pack is to act as a subordinate -- a wolf pup - who is fed, doted upon, and generally protected from danger. This dooms Soi dogs to an evolutionary purgatory where neither instinct nor selective breeding equips them for anything but professional beggary.

A good reason to restrict their food supply.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

10 hours ago, morrobay said:

Drive me around in the back of a pickup with a 12 gauge  and I'll take care of the dog problem. And with 00 buckshot there won't be any just wounded.

InBKK they managed 200 a day - the projected and would have been 10 years assuming EVERY shot is a kill....and the idea of someone driving round Pattaya  firing off a 12 bore in all directions is somewhat disturbing.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Thunglom

[davidkas]

On 12/12/2021 at 11:18 AM, Burma Bill said:

With respect to dog lovers and Vegans, round them all up and export them to Vietnam!!

Who, the dog lovers and vegans? ????????

[Thunglom]

14 hours ago, morrobay said:

Drive me around in the back of a pickup with a 12 gauge  and I'll take care of the dog problem. And with 00 buckshot there won't be any just wounded.

so long as you are within 50yards - You really haven't thought it through. You unleash one shot in range and you may have one dog...the rest just disappear.

I'm sure you're very proud of your prowess with a gun but I've already explained why that is totally pointless with Soi Dogs.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Thunglom

[Scott]

Troll post reported and removed.

 

[morrobay]

Bull sh*t. All talk no walk. I went to city hall  last week. Made complaint form including map. Two days later  dogs still around. So I had a Thai call the number given 038 111826 which does connect with the right dept. and complain. Still no action taken

 

 

[Thunglom]

On 12/12/2021 at 5:50 AM, The Hammer2021 said:

Feral cats are rare in all countries. They are not an issue in any country.

I think you'll find Australia disagrees with you, strongly.

[Thunglom]

5 hours ago, morrobay said:

Bull sh*t. All talk no walk. I went to city hall  last week. Made complaint form including map. Two days later  dogs still around. So I had a Thai call the number given 038 111826 which does connect with the right dept. and complain. Still no action taken

 

 

What are you expecting? The policy is CNVR capture neuter, vaccinate release, which works - over time - However if they don't carry this out, then no progress can be made.

[The Hammer2021]

23 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

I think you'll find Australia disagrees with you, strongly.

Not so far and I made the  comment last year. I've never been chased or bitten by cats

[Thunglom]

47 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Not so far and I made the  comment last year. I've never been chased or bitten by cats

Feral animals in any country are threat to the environment

 

In Australia every day cats kill:

• Mammals – 3.2 million (mostly native species in the bush; mostly introduced species in towns)

• Birds – 1.2 million (almost all native species)

• Reptiles – 1.9 million (almost all native species)

• Frogs – 0.25 million (all native species)

• Invertebrates – 3 million

 

A feral cat in the bush –

791 mammals, birds, reptiles and frogs/year and 371 invertebrates/year

• A feral cat in urban area –

449 mammals, reptiles and birds/year

• A pet cat that can roam and hunt – 186 mammals, reptiles and birds/year

 

Australian Government’s National Environmental Science Program

 

In Thailand and other countries, quite apart from the mess and zoonotic diseases, dangers to traffic etc., excessive populations of dog, cats and monkeys or any other animal, upset the balance of nature and lead to endangering or even extinction of other species

Edited May 14, 2022 by Thunglom

[The Hammer2021]

32 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Feral animals in any country are threat to the environment

 

In Australia every day cats kill:

• Mammals – 3.2 million (mostly native species in the bush; mostly introduced species in towns)

• Birds – 1.2 million (almost all native species)

• Reptiles – 1.9 million (almost all native species)

• Frogs – 0.25 million (all native species)

• Invertebrates – 3 million

 

A feral cat in the bush –

791 mammals, birds, reptiles and frogs/year and 371 invertebrates/year

• A feral cat in urban area –

449 mammals, reptiles and birds/year

• A pet cat that can roam and hunt – 186 mammals, reptiles and birds/year

 

Australian Government’s National Environmental Science Program

 

In Thailand and other countries, quite apart from the mess and zoonotic diseases, dangers to traffic etc., excessive populations of dog, cats and monkeys or any other animal, upset the balance of nature and lead to endangering or even extinction of other species

I don't care about that cut and paste stuff. I'm taking  about ME getting  bitten  or chased by dogs or little children getting savaged !

[Sticky Rice Balls]

On 12/12/2021 at 10:04 AM, Geoffggi said:

feral cats wandering about destroying all the bike seats

got mine this week.....bad kitty!!

[Thunglom]

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I don't care about that cut and paste stuff. I'm taking  about ME getting  bitten  or chased by dogs or little children getting savaged !

No you weren't, you said "Feral cats are rare in all countries. They are not an issue in any country." - this is patently incorrect - they are an issue in many countries.

This demonstrates you have little understanding of the "Soi Dog" issues in Thailand which have a lot in common with other countries.

To suggest it doesn't happen because you haven't experienced it is just an example of how misleading personal/anecdotal experience can be.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Thunglom

[Scott]

Inflammatory troll post reported and removed.  

 

[jacko45k]

Had a timely reminder about dog issues, beyond that of my neighbours damned animals. Had been in Lotus Mall on Nua and decided to walk to T21, but from out of the carpark onto a side street. I must have looked like mutton chops to 4-5 dogs hanging around on the street, and definitely felt concerned....

Should not be worried about taking a walk in a tourist town. 

[Mr Meeseeks]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Had a timely reminder about dog issues, beyond that of my neighbours damned animals. Had been in Lotus Mall on Nua and decided to walk to T21, but from out of the carpark onto a side street. I must have looked like mutton chops to 4-5 dogs hanging around on the street, and definitely felt concerned....

Should not be worried about taking a walk in a tourist town. 

Pattaya is filthy at the moment and full of stray dog populations which are rapidly expanding.

 

Thais simply do not have the ability or will to do what is necessary to combat the problem.

[Bruno123]

On 5/15/2022 at 12:58 AM, jacko45k said:

Had a timely reminder about dog issues, beyond that of my neighbours damned animals. Had been in Lotus Mall on Nua and decided to walk to T21, but from out of the carpark onto a side street. I must have looked like mutton chops to 4-5 dogs hanging around on the street, and definitely felt concerned....

Should not be worried about taking a walk in a tourist town. 

 

Allow me try to clarify what you have written here...

 

You were out walking and saw some dogs. They did nothing. You imagined that you were a mutton chop. You blame the dogs for your wild imagination and insist that something must be done about them forcing you to imagine that you are a mutton chop.

I agree; if dogs are using previously hidden mind altering tricks to make you think crazy things, it's an abuse of their power.

I can try to talk to them for you.

 

As to you claiming that there should be absolutely nothing in a tourist town that might disturb you in the slightest.... like the rest of us, you'll need to find a way to filter out the things you don't want in your world; rather than expecting the world to conform to your idea of perfection.

 

The dogs did nothing to you, why are you attacking them?

 

[Bruno123]

On 5/15/2022 at 6:26 AM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Pattaya is filthy at the moment and full of stray dog populations which are rapidly expanding.

 

Thais simply do not have the ability or will to do what is necessary to combat the problem.

 

Are your opening statements connected? Seems that you are upset about two things. That Pattaya is filthy and that you don't like dogs.

 

What do you propose they do about the decay? Spend money that they don't have in making it look in tip-top shape for you? 

I'm not sure why people come to Thailand after being unhappy in their home countries and then spend their lives trying to make Thailand look and behave like their home country.

 

I love Thailand; soi dogs and all.

[The Hammer2021]

On 12/12/2021 at 1:46 PM, Bruno123 said:

 

Wow...even from you; that's a doozy!

 

By your reasoning, the 40 year old who broke into his neighbour's house in order to hug the neighbour's 12 year old is all of us??

We are all the same??!! Oh no! I don't want to be a sex pest!

So one can adjudged guilty for what someone else did, even if they are on the other side of the country and not related to you in any way?? Tell me it isn't so??!!

 

Dogs are not  humans and can't be considered as such. I have no idea what you are going on about.

[Bruno123]

2 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Dogs are not  humans and can't be considered as such. I have no idea what you are going on about.

 

I have no idea as to why you are replying to a post made in December. Have you been in a coma for five months?

That might explain why you have no idea about the subject matter, as you have stated.

[The Hammer2021]

Just now, Bruno123 said:

 

I have no idea as to why you are replying to a post made in December. Have you been in a coma for five months?

That might explain why you have no idea about the subject matter, as you have stated.

The thread notification activated  and I replied to it..just as you are now responding! LOL. Or don't  you know how this forum works?

But I am pleased to say around Pratumnak and cozy beach it appears many dangerous stray dogs  have been put down making the area much safer.  So we'll done to the authorities!