Hope for same-sex marriage still a faint glimmer in Thailand

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

You lost me there.  You asked if I was ok with heterosexual unions having a different name than a union of same sex couples and that name being something other than being called a marriage.  I said yes. 

If the rights are identical then the only thing by having a different name for the same rights, privileges and obligations is to make a distinction that a union of two people of the same sex is "different" 

I am not for taking away any rights or privileges'.  But I am adamantly against  anything that attempts to convey the lifestyle as being identical to a heterosexual union and that being used to indoctrinate people that  someone that lifestyle is every bit as normal as a heterosexual couple.  I would say the same thing about a man who can legally have multiple wives.  That is not any more "normal" than a same sex life partnership.  

You don't understand how this works. Marriage is codified in law in hundreds or thousands of ALL apects of life.

If you create a new category you must legislate each and every one of those at all levels of governance if the intention is to have the same thing different name.

So now you're saying you're for 100 percent equaility? Really? Including parenting and adoption?

Edited December 13, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Stubby said:

Look, I don't care if someone is a man, woman, beast, gay, straight, or even Australian. But by heck, it's hard to keep up, sometimes. There's too much to remember nowadays, it's almost like another language.
 

Forget Same-Sex Mariage, What About the New Sex Couples (all 100 of them)? 
 

A BBC film tells kids as young as nine that there are now over 100 gender identities. It's called Identity – Understanding Sexual and Gender Identities. Then there are the new pronouns to remember. It's true; many folks now get offended if you refer to them as HE or SHE. And official documents in the UK - like passport applications - now use Parent 1 and Parent 2 to avoid upsetting same-sex parents. That's right, mother and father have been dumped.
 

I'm an advocate for live and let live, but all this PC, well... it's like walking over freaking eggshells in slippers made of lead.

Folks, you should be able to do whatever you want if you're not hurting anyone, and good onya. But please, drop all the labels and insistence that everybody embraces the new you, whether you're same-sex or an 3-eyed alien.

Geesh, ain't life already complicated enough!
 

Stubby the Mister Man

Marriage equality is not complicated. It has already happened in many countries.

[Jingthing]

8 hours ago, BostonRob2 said:

My marriage has had the same sex for years.

I hope your bowel movements are as regular as that.

[OneMoreFarang]

12 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

The term "rights" is a red herring.  What the LGTB community wants is for the public to "embrace" their lifestyle giving it the impression to future generations that their lifestyle is not just accepted but rather endorsed.  They want it taught in the schools so that the children's impression is that the LGTB lifestyle is every bit as normal as the heterosexual lifestyle.  Now by "normal" I do not mean to convey that it is objectionable but rather it is not the norm.  A small fraction of the population identifies as LGB and even fewer identify as transsexual. So if teaching was really promoting the truth it would be that the LBTB lifestyle is not the norm but rather the exception. 

I am totally for legal protections that allow a same sex couple to enjoy the same rights and protections as married men and women.  However I am not for the term "marry" that conveys that it is identical in every way to a marriage between a man and a woman.  We use terms to convey a message and the message should be that the union is equal but not identical.  Society does that all the time.  A merger and an acquisition accomplish the same thing a common ownership but done in a different way.  Conception of a child whether invitro, or heterosexual sex produces the same result - a child but society chooses to use different terminology "because of the differences".

A union between two people of the same is "is different" than one between two people of the opposite sex.  Call it a civil union, a civil partnership,  a domestic partnership, a registered relationship but it should provide the identical rights but not be called a marriage. 

To continue to clamor for only "marriage" to be acceptable means that the true goal is the indoctrination of society and not the pursuit of "equal rights" 

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/how-many-people-lgbt/
 

Thanks for your great comment. I think it is a great summary about what many people think.

We accept it, but we don't want to embrace their lifestyle.

[OneMoreFarang]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Being gay is not a lifestyle.

Correct. But it seems for some people the promotion of being gay is a lifestyle.

 

[RJRS1301]

9 hours ago, Karma80 said:

I can only assume the use of the catholic church as an authority on child welfare is sarcasm. 

No it was what the previous Pope said, he was being genuine, we see the hypocracy however.

[RJRS1301]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Correct. But it seems for some people the promotion of being gay is a lifestyle.

 

Of course, we never see public displays of affection from heterosexuals do we?

 

[daveAustin]

Lots of out of touch fuddy-duddy (boomers likely) on here and they fit right in with the dinosaur army. I’m a straight male, but am all for folk being married whatever persuasion. It’s all arbitrary anyway; I mean, who made the marriage rule to begin with? God, Lucifer, Pontias Pilate, Henry Kissinger? Put yourselves in others’ shoes! Just typical this pathetic joke of a commie government would get this as wrong as everything else. Sad. 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

commie government

Let me guess, you are an American.

And maybe one of those millennials?

[Jingthing]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Correct. But it seems for some people the promotion of being gay is a lifestyle.

 

This is most likely at a ONCE PER YEAR Gay Pride event. Are you implying this couple is doing that all the time? Again being gay is not a lifestyle any more than being straight is a lifestyle. You grow up and you then discover about your sexuality. 

[1FinickyOne]

On 12/13/2021 at 6:33 AM, RJRS1301 said:

You know what happened to dinosaurs??

Let me take a swing at that one...

 

After the meteor they realized it would be better to function much smaller so they broke into a billion little pieces w/extremely good communication abilities and function as one whole unit in tiny pieces... 

 

We call them ants and cockroaches?? 

[OneMoreFarang]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is most likely at a ONCE PER YEAR Gay Pride event. Are you implying this couple is doing that all the time? Again being gay is not a lifestyle any more than being straight is a lifestyle. You grow up and you then discover about your sexuality. 

Let me answer that from my subjective view. I see from time to time gay people in "my" building, maybe in coffee shops or restaurants, etc. Sometimes I talk to them just like anybody else. No problem.

 

But then there are those who seem to promote their lifestyle. And some do that as crass as possible and as much in your face as possible. I think those people make the situation worse. It's like radical feminists or radical animal lovers etc. Somehow some of them seem to think if they just shout loud enough then they will be successful. I don't think so.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let me answer that from my subjective view. I see from time to time gay people in "my" building, maybe in coffee shops or restaurants, etc. Sometimes I talk to them just like anybody else. No problem.

 

But then there are those who seem to promote their lifestyle. And some do that as crass as possible and as much in your face as possible. I think those people make the situation worse. It's like radical feminists or radical animal lovers etc. Somehow some of them seem to think if they just shout loud enough then they will be successful. I don't think so.

There are crass people of all kinds. Gay people are not a monolith. 

[Nickelbeer]

It doesn't seem like it would be much of an issue here.  Thailand is the most openly-gay country I have ever visited. Being gay or transgender does not seem to carry any negative connotations here. Just my unprofessional observation.

[Jingthing]

58 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

It doesn't seem like it would be much of an issue here.  Thailand is the most openly-gay country I have ever visited. Being gay or transgender does not seem to carry any negative connotations here. Just my unprofessional observation.

Superficially it may appear that way. But look deeper and you'll discover its not the paradise for Thai sexual minorities that you seem to think. Things like family reactions, career limitations especially for Ts, school bullying. Of course its much better than Iran.

[UWEB]

On 12/13/2021 at 4:00 AM, TooMuchTime said:

Good.

Stoneage thinking

[alyx]

On 12/13/2021 at 4:00 AM, TooMuchTime said:

Good.

Poor little thing

[Nickelbeer]

It seems fairly obvious to most people that sexual orientation is genetic. I have not known that many gay people, but all of them seem to have had that orientation since very early childhood.

[Nickelbeer]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let me guess, you are an American.

And maybe one of those millennials?

Commies?????   Where??????   Haven't seen one in years. ????

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

It seems fairly obvious to most people that sexual orientation is genetic. I have not known that many gay people, but all of them seem to have had that orientation since very early childhood.

Perhaps but it shouldn't really matter either way. I'm more inclined to think there are multiple factors involved depending on the individual.

 

Personally I have vivid memories of same sex attraction going back to very early childhood. It wasn't a time where people were coming out super early. Adults would call it a phase and in most cases it probably is.

 

Why it shouldn't matter. I recently saw a doc about antisemitism in the UK. It

featured a convert who looked about as Jewish as Archie Bunker but he wore a kippah so he experienced hatred on the streets often. So he chose to be a Jew and he was getting the same bigotry as those born Jewish.

 

Again. It shouldn't matter.

[Longwood50]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You don't understand how this works. Marriage is codified in law in hundreds or thousands of ALL apects of life.

If you create a new category you must legislate each and every one of those at all levels of governance if the intention is to have the same thing different name.

So now you're saying you're for 100 percent equaility? Really? Including parenting and adoption?

Yes and a legal union call it what you want between two people of the same sex is "not codified"  in many areas.  So again, all it would take is for there to be a common "term" used to identify what a union between same sex couples is called and enact that into law conveying the same rights and privileges to unions between opposite sex couples.  

Codifying that is no more cumbersome or difficult than getting each governmental body around the world to change their laws allowing same sex couples to allowed to "marry" 

I am all for peoples rights and privileges however I want nothing to do with any legislation that is somehow used to indoctrinate.  I don't want people teaching children their political, religious, or sexual philosophies.  In my opinion that is the "real agenda" behind the adamant push for same sex unions to be called marriages.  The want to convey the "image" that same sex unions are just as normal as heterosexual unions are.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  

Using politics instead of sex, in the USA there are two major and one minor political parties.  Republican, Democrat and Libertarian.  

There are also numerous decided political parties that are "out of the norm"  They include the Communist Party, Antifa, The Christian Liberty Party, the Socialist Equality Party.  I would not be in favor of anything that somehow conveys these parties are mainstream and their philosophies widely held. 

Just as I respect someone's right to their religion, I don't wish to have it shoved in my face and expect me to embrace it.  

One thing I find particularly puzzling with the LGBT community is the almost total fixation on who they want to have sex with or in the case of a trans sexual " what sex they identify as.

If you ask the vast majority of people to describe who "they are" You will typically get, responses like, I am a father, or a mother.  I am a banker, plumber, machinist  I am an avid golfer, tennis player, hunter.  I am a Christian, a Jew, an Arab.   I am an immigrant.  Etc. 

You never hear from someone, I am a ardent heterosexual.  You never see a heterosexual needing to carry a flag or march in a parade to "celebrate" that they like to have sex with a person of the opposite sex. 

However with the LGBT community is seems to be " their entire identity" or certainly the one that hold most self identifies who they are as a person.  It is as if they are seeking some public acceptance of their lifestyle.  If a person is truly comfortable with who they are as a person, they certainly should not need someone else to validate it for them. 
 

[Jingthing]

Why is it that those that are curiously obsessed with denying sexual minorities equal civil rights as if that would take something away from them, seem to always talk about stuff being shoved in their faces? Oh, the imagery. 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

Yes and a legal union call it what you want between two people of the same sex is "not codified"  in many areas.  So again, all it would take is for there to be a common "term" used to identify what a union between same sex couples is called and enact that into law conveying the same rights and privileges to unions between opposite sex couples.  

Codifying that is no more cumbersome or difficult than getting each governmental body around the world to change their laws allowing same sex couples to allowed to "marry" 

I am all for peoples rights and privileges however I want nothing to do with any legislation that is somehow used to indoctrinate.  I don't want people teaching children their political, religious, or sexual philosophies.  In my opinion that is the "real agenda" behind the adamant push for same sex unions to be called marriages.  The want to convey the "image" that same sex unions are just as normal as heterosexual unions are.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  

Using politics instead of sex, in the USA there are two major and one minor political parties.  Republican, Democrat and Libertarian.  

There are also numerous decided political parties that are "out of the norm"  They include the Communist Party, Antifa, The Christian Liberty Party, the Socialist Equality Party.  I would not be in favor of anything that somehow conveys these parties are mainstream and their philosophies widely held. 

Just as I respect someone's right to their religion, I don't wish to have it shoved in my face and expect me to embrace it.  

One thing I find particularly puzzling with the LGBT community is the almost total fixation on who they want to have sex with or in the case of a trans sexual " what sex they identify as.

If you ask the vast majority of people to describe who "they are" You will typically get, responses like, I am a father, or a mother.  I am a banker, plumber, machinist  I am an avid golfer, tennis player, hunter.  I am a Christian, a Jew, an Arab.   I am an immigrant.  Etc. 

You never hear from someone, I am a ardent heterosexual.  You never see a heterosexual needing to carry a flag or march in a parade to "celebrate" that they like to have sex with a person of the opposite sex. 

However with the LGBT community is seems to be " their entire identity" or certainly the one that hold most self identifies who they are as a person.  It is as if they are seeking some public acceptance of their lifestyle.  If a person is truly comfortable with who they are as a person, they certainly should not need someone else to validate it for them. 
 

You completely ignored the point I was making about codification when another term other than marriage is created to stick sexual minorities in an OTHER category. Either you actually STILL don't get the issue or you're playing a disingenuous game to avoid facing the issue and the utter hypocrisy and mean spiritedness of your positions. Given your incredibly insulting, hateful tone towards sexual minorities over the course of several posts, I am now inclined to think the latter. I have no interest in engaging in "debate" here with people pushing a bigoted POV that can't even discuss things in good faith. So post all you want, but engagement with me about this is over.

[rott]

I thought the header said "some-sex marriage". 

According to a few I know that would be an improvement. 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, rott said:

I thought the header said "some-sex marriage". 

According to a few I know that would be an improvement. 

Ever heard of lesbian bed death? It's a thing. 

[Longwood50]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

. I have no interest in engaging in "debate"

The point is you are not debating.  And no I am "not discriminating" against sexual minorities.  What I am saying and have repeatedly said I am totally for two person union of the same sex to have "absolutely identical rights and privileges to a two person of the opposite sex.  What I am however have said is that the "union" should not be labeled and identified using the term "marriage" but rather a term that accurately differentiates it as a union of two same sex people versus two opposite sex people.  I would say the same thing about a union if "legal" between one man and multiple women.  

You are doing nothing more than reinforcing my belief that the fight is not for "equal rights" but rather a public "embrace" of the lifestyle for purposes of indoctrination of future generations.  The LGBT while it should not be discriminated against, neither should it be portrayed as the "norm"  I would not favor someone preaching religion in the schools, I would not favor someone preaching politics in the schools yet the LGBT community is pushing for that and giving the term "marriage" only serves to further their true aim and that is to foster the idea that someone the lifestyle is mainstream.  

I get a kick out of the term discrimination as it pertains to LGBT.  If someone is African American they can not conceal the fact.  If someone is handicapped they can not conceal the fact.  However the only way anyone knows what another persons sexual preference is if they communicate it to them.  That for whatever reason seems to be tremendously important to them.  I can assure you, I have never had a heterosexual male or female convey their sexual preference to me.  By contrast the tiny minority of LGBT people are driven to shove it in the public's face with flags, parades, pride month, special legislation and even having a flag celebrating the "pride" flag flown over U.S. embassies which is an honor not afforded other countries. 

Live your life, keep your beliefs, share your life with whoever you want.  However I don't care, I don't want to know, and I will certainly accept your right to do so.  However if a person tries to shove down my throat their political, religious, or sexual preference they will find I resent it and do not find it to be a socially accepted practice to ask that I share their ideology.  I may accept their right to have it, but not their right to try and get me to embrace it. 

[Mr Dome]

On 12/13/2021 at 3:29 AM, TooMuchTime said:

Leave your "progressive" garbage in your home country please.  Linking to "Slate" also gave me a <deleted> eating grin.  Lord have mercy!

So, obviously you're very much in favor of that concept that the government should get involved in & regulate it's citizens private lives? Otherwise, your response would make you a total bigot.

 

Somehow, I doubt you'd like it if you were at the receiving end of something similar. It also has nothing to do with Thai culture specifically; there are LGBTQ people in every country on this planet. There's nothing specific to Thailand here unless you find that every law & rule in the Kingdom is automatically part of the culture, like the fine for not carrying your passport with you, the police forcing you to pee into a bottle on the street for drug testing, etc.

 

It's regrettable that each time a queer topic is reported on TV a homophobic comment is often left by someone feeling endangered in their masculinity (?).

[Mr Dome]

4 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

You never hear from someone, I am a ardent heterosexual.  You never see a heterosexual needing to carry a flag or march in a parade to "celebrate" that they like to have sex with a person of the opposite sex. 

 

Of course you hear it. Good grief, everyone's expected to be straight and if nothing is known will be categorized as such. You are not gay, so you will never know what it's like - you're just spreading your ignorant blindness all over the forum.

 

The majority never has special events because they have all events already. They're # 1 already. It's like advocating for a day honoring blonde white skinned Norwegians. What on earth would be the point in a country full of them?

 

This is when homophobia is dressed up as seemingly "intelligent discourse" and arrives at the evergreen of accusing the minority of "shoving it in my face", where it's never defined what is meant exactly? Are 30 rainbow flags per year OK & # 31 is "shoving it in your face"? How do you keep track? Isn't this all just an excuse to display the homophobia and fear-driven anger you feel entitled to but you know you shouldn't show, covered by the thin veneer of "oh, I'm super tolerant, as long as *you people* behave exactly as I feel you are entitled to" ?

 

Is one Pride march or month too many? How many gay couples doing what all other heterosexual couples treat as the most normal thing - holding hands - will set you off? How many men telling the truth about themselves will set you off? Questions after questions ...

Edited December 14, 2021 by Mr Dome
Fixing typos

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Mr Dome said:

Of course you hear it. Good grief, everyone's expected to be straight and if nothing is known will be categorized as such. You are not gay, so you will never know what it's like - you're just spreading your ignorant blindness all over the forum.

 

The majority never has special events because they have all events already. They're # 1 already. It's like advocating for a day honoring blonde white skinned Norwegians. What on earth would be the point in a country full of them?

 

This is when homophobia is dressed up as seemingly "intelligent discourse" and arrives at the evergreen of accusing the minority of "shoving it in my face", where it's never defined what is meant exactly? Are 30 rainbow flags per year OK & # 31 is "shoving it in your face"? How do you keep track? Isn't this all just an excuse to display the homophobia and fear-driven anger you feel entitled to but you know you shouldn't show, covered by the thin veneer of "oh, I'm super tolerant, as long as *you people* behave exactly as I feel you are entitled to" ?

 

Is one Pride march or month too many? How many gay couples doing what all other heterosexual couples treat as the most normal thing - holding hands - will set you off? How many men telling the truth about themselves will set you off? Questions after questions ...

Spot on.

That guy doesn't have one ounce of a clue. 

As far as gays in the closet out of legit fear of oppression, being cut off from family, career suicide, or even prison and execution, and I reckon that's still the majority in the world, I think it's much harder for those in committed relationships. You know the people that would most benefit from marriage equality. A photo of their spouse and family pooch on the desk? Oh no! That would be sticking it in their face! Taking their spouse to a company event. Don't be so uppity! Know your place! Your real life, your real self -- INVISIBLE. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Jingthing

[RJRS1301]

8 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

The point is you are not debating.  And no I am "not discriminating" against sexual minorities.  What I am saying and have repeatedly said I am totally for two person union of the same sex to have "absolutely identical rights and privileges to a two person of the opposite sex.  What I am however have said is that the "union" should not be labeled and identified using the term "marriage" but rather a term that accurately differentiates it as a union of two same sex people versus two opposite sex people.  I would say the same thing about a union if "legal" between one man and multiple women.  

You are doing nothing more than reinforcing my belief that the fight is not for "equal rights" but rather a public "embrace" of the lifestyle for purposes of indoctrination of future generations.  The LGBT while it should not be discriminated against, neither should it be portrayed as the "norm"  I would not favor someone preaching religion in the schools, I would not favor someone preaching politics in the schools yet the LGBT community is pushing for that and giving the term "marriage" only serves to further their true aim and that is to foster the idea that someone the lifestyle is mainstream.  

I get a kick out of the term discrimination as it pertains to LGBT.  If someone is African American they can not conceal the fact.  If someone is handicapped they can not conceal the fact.  However the only way anyone knows what another persons sexual preference is if they communicate it to them.  That for whatever reason seems to be tremendously important to them.  I can assure you, I have never had a heterosexual male or female convey their sexual preference to me.  By contrast the tiny minority of LGBT people are driven to shove it in the public's face with flags, parades, pride month, special legislation and even having a flag celebrating the "pride" flag flown over U.S. embassies which is an honor not afforded other countries. 

Live your life, keep your beliefs, share your life with whoever you want.  However I don't care, I don't want to know, and I will certainly accept your right to do so.  However if a person tries to shove down my throat their political, religious, or sexual preference they will find I resent it and do not find it to be a socially accepted practice to ask that I share their ideology.  I may accept their right to have it, but not their right to try and get me to embrace it. 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

 

Heteronormativity is the concept that heterosexuality is the preferred or normal mode of sexual orientation.^[1] It assumes the gender binary (i.e., that there are only two distinct, opposite genders) and that sexual and marital relations are most fitting between people of opposite sex. A heteronormative view therefore involves alignment of biological sex, sexuality, gender identity and gender roles. Heteronormativity is often linked to heterosexism and homophobia.^[1][2] The effects of societal heteronormativity on lesbian, gay and bisexual individuals can be examined as heterosexual or "straight" privilege.^[3]