More insurance firms face bankruptcy if COVID-19 insurance claims are not scrapped

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

15 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

Another case that highlights the need for universal healthcare. With everyone paying into it each month though a small tax. It isn't rocket science, but I guess it doesn't benefit shareholders

Commercial insurance is a poor solution for spreading the risk of high healthcare costs unless insurers are barred from excluding pre-existing conditions, congenital conditions and others, in which case the premiums rise to levels that become unaffordable for many. Universal coverage provided by the state or by a single payer under strict regulations would be preferable, but would still be costly. Any tax that was capable of addressing these costs wouldn't be small, especially if treatment in private hospitals were covered.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Etaoin Shrdlu
Typo

[robblok]

Just now, John Drake said:

To spread the pain evenly, put the people who owned these companies and issued these policies in jail and fine them so much that when they get out, they're living in a thatch hut.

Maybe you should go and get an education and inform yourself more. These companies are not privately owned. Most of them with maybe a few exceptions are noted at stock exchanges. 

[John Drake]

Just now, robblok said:

Maybe you should go and get an education and inform yourself more. These companies are not privately owned. Most of them with maybe a few exceptions are noted at stock exchanges. 

I think I know just as much as the insurance shills on this forum.

[robblok]

Just now, John Drake said:

I think I know just as much as the insurance shills on this forum.

I think you don't know a thing to be honest. Tell me dear sir, if a company is not privately owned but noted at the stock exchange how are you going after the owners till the live in a tach hut ?

[John Drake]

Just now, robblok said:

I think you don't know a thing to be honest. Tell me dear sir, if a company is not privately owned but noted at the stock exchange how are you going after the owners till the live in a tach hut ?

Well, Mr. Education, if you go back and read what I wrote, it includes the phrase "and issued these policies," with the antecedent being "the people."  Owners and issuers. I don't know why some people continually come on this forum so often and preen and try to strut their virtue and imagined educations.

[thaibook]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Only, they are not talking about these kinds of insurances. 

 

Too bad that so many are commenting on something they have no clue about and use it to justify their preconceptions.

 

They are talking about policies that pay out a lump sum i believe 100.000 for a positive test for covid even if no symptoms or cost are incurred. This was mentioned in the news before and is talked about in the article if you read it. (if you have read previous articles too).

 

So this has nothing to do with the covid insurances that are needed to enter Thailand or with covid insurances that cover costs that are incurred. 

 

From the article see below:

 

The only way to save them is for the Insurance Commission to rescind the Registrar’s Order and allow insurance firms to scrap the “Find, Pay, End” policies, which enable the insured to claim compensation from the firms when it is proved that they were infected with COVID-19.

 

 

 

Who devised such policies, and to what purpose?  Presumably the insurance companies thought they had found a new gold seam.  Not sure from where they got their forecast data nor the test effectiveness rate and whether or not they have a system to limit a single payment to each person irrespective of how many positive tests he has.  All in all it seems they were greedy and miscalculated, so let them bear the consequences.

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Disagree. Many insurance companies worldwide behave like mafia organizations. Anything to deny a claim. Not anything unique to Thailand! 

Not quite true, they don't claim they can't afford to pay out, usually the risk is underwritten by others, but of course they try to deny claims where possible, that's standard everywhere

[robblok]

1 minute ago, John Drake said:

Well, Mr. Education, if you go back and read what I wrote, it includes the phrase "and issued these policies," with the antecedent being "the people."  Owners and issuers. I don't know why some people continually come on this forum so often and preen and try to strut their virtue and imagined educations.

The issuers are just the people working here, come up with a good plan instead of tough talk. You have no idea what your talking about. Otherwise you would not have posted owners.

 

Now you want to punish everyone who works at an insurance company ? or just the marketing people ? or those who got a bonus. Be more specific ? I mean its all nice and fine to sprout tough talk and stuff but if you have no concrete plans then its nothing.

 

Because normal people working there issued the policies, not high earning people. Also there is no profit on these policies so nobody got profit sharing. So please come on do better tell me how. 

 

They just sold a product that was too cheap and now the company can't pay out. Its not a question of people making huge profits its a stupid mistake that hurts many people. I think people like you without a decent education who talk tough but have no idea what is happing are funny. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, thaibook said:

Who devised such policies, and to what purpose?  Presumably the insurance companies thought they had found a new gold seam.  Not sure from where they got their forecast data nor the test effectiveness rate and whether or not they have a system to limit a single payment to each person irrespective of how many positive tests he has.  All in all it seems they were greedy and miscalculated, so let them bear the consequences.

I agree, let them hurt. But at the same time it will hurt plenty others too. People foreigners maybe who paid for a policy that now cannot be paid out anymore. There is no profit they sold a product and made a huge loss so there is no money. God i wish people at least had a basic understand of things before they posted.

 

I don't care that the company goes under, but at the same time loads of OTHER people will hurt too. 

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Now you want to punish everyone who works at an insurance company ? or just the marketing people ? or those who got a bonus. Be more specific ?

Specific? The ones responsible are those with their names on the contracts they sold. 

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I agree, let them hurt. But at the same time it will hurt plenty others too. People foreigners maybe who paid for a policy that now cannot be paid out anymore. There is no profit they sold a product and made a huge loss so there is no money. God i wish people at least had a basic understand of things before they posted.

 

I don't care that the company goes under, but at the same time loads of OTHER people will hurt too. 

It must be difficult in a world where you are the only person who understands the system.  Pity all the poor poltroons who infest your day and inhibit your emissions of wisdom and bravery.

[digger70]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Disagree. Many insurance companies worldwide behave like mafia organizations. Anything to deny a claim. Not anything unique to Thailand! 

They sure do , they will take your money but they will do anything  for not paying a claim.

Simply ,they are only a Greedy Business .

It doesn't matter what type of insurance one has .

[robblok]

1 minute ago, John Drake said:

It must be difficult in a world where you are the only person who understands the system.  Pity all the poor poltroons who infest your day and inhibit your emissions of wisdom and bravery.

Its always difficult having a discussion with people who have no clue what they are talking about. You are one of those. I am sorry you just don't have the education. You might be smart or whatever but on this field and accounting and stuff you have no clue.

 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Specific? The ones responsible are those with their names on the contracts they sold. 

That is the company, not the employees, the company is not privately owned. So tell me how. You seem to know so much.

[thaibook]

20 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

Commercial insurance is a poor solution for spreading the risk of high healthcare costs unless insurers are barred from excluding pre-existing conditions, congenital conditions and others, in which case the premiums rise to levels that become unaffordable for many. Universal coverage provided by the state or by a single payer under strict regulations would be preferable, but would still be costly. Any tax that was capable of addressing these costs wouldn't be small, especially if treatment in private hospitals were covered.

If everyone had to have healthcare cover from the time of birth thre would be no pre-existing conditions.  For the premiums to be affordable the range of treatements/procedures covered would be strictly defined an the cost of treatment including physician fees controlled.  In such a case there is no reason why there could not be competing providers, no need for government to run the system; it would probably simply ban everyone from leaving their house.

[rott]

"More insurance firms", how many are already insolvent through these Covid policies.? 

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

That is the company, not the employees, the company is not privately owned. So tell me how. You seem to know so much.

Names.  Names. There are names on contracts. The person who sold it to you, in person or online. They are culpable. Why do you have so many problems with so many people on this forum? Might want to ask yourself that question.

[robblok]

Just now, John Drake said:

Names.  Names. There are names on contracts. The person who sold it to you, in person or online. They are culpable. Why do you have so many problems with so many people on this forum? Might want to ask yourself that question.

Look at an insurance contract and you will see that its made out in name of the company. It has no names of private people on it. That is not how it is done. You might have had a seller who handled it but that is it they are not responsible.

 

Look I don't have trouble with many people. Many people just don't have a clue. You won't find me posting in stuff about electrics / technical things stuff like that. Why because i know my limitations I suggest you do the same it stops you from looking like fool in the eyes of those who do know better in the field your talking about. 

 

I will give you an example they sell 1000 policies for 2000 collected 2.000.000. They expected to pay 1.500.000 (fictive numbers) Some money went to salaries some money went to commission (no huge amounts to nobody). Now they have to pay 4.000.000

So there is no money. No profit no greed. the money is just not there. 

 

Then you can go after the poor salesman who sold it to you because he made 100bt commission on that policy but his name is not that has underwritten the policy. 

 

You can't go after the company as its not privately owned. You can go until bankruptcy and that is it. But those who hurt will be the people who paid for a policy and don't get paid out.

 

You can't squeeze blood out of rock then the money is not there. Once the company is bankrupt and liquidated that is it. Im perfectly ok with it but you can't do anything more. So consumers will be hurt. So all i suggested was spread the pain according to fairness. I did not suggest a company surviving. Nothing of the sorts. 

 

You seem to think that there is some way to recover money that is just there. 

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

You might have had a seller who handled it but that is it they are not responsible.

Yes, they are.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

6 minutes ago, thaibook said:

If everyone had to have healthcare cover from the time of birth thre would be no pre-existing conditions.  For the premiums to be affordable the range of treatements/procedures covered would be strictly defined an the cost of treatment including physician fees controlled.  In such a case there is no reason why there could not be competing providers, no need for government to run the system; it would probably simply ban everyone from leaving their house.

I agree. But now we're talking about regulating the medical community, too, and that makes the issue even more difficult. 

 

 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Yes, they are.

????

 

I rest my case. No use talking with you. You just don't have a clue.

 

The person who sold you the policy, is not responsible. The company is. He/she is just a poor wage worker. You have a totally wrong idea how things work. Im sorry but i really give up you don't know about legalities, accounting. ect. 

 

Just look at in a way you might understand. You buy a car at Toyota. Later the car is <deleted>. Is the toyota employee responsible or the Toyota dealer / Toyota ?.

 

Have you ever seen cases where they could actually go after the employee if he worked in good faith ?

Edited December 31, 2021 by robblok

[Mayhem11]

Tears are streaming down my face.

[digbeth]

there are companies that don't offer these 'cash payout' bet against covid type insurance, so there are actuaries that did their job and/or executives that listened to them.

 

until before Delta hit, these companies are making easy money on these insurance where they promise to pay a lump sum upon diagnosis of covid and that's it, nothing to do with actual care received. 

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

????

 

I rest my case. No use talking with you. You just don't have a clue.

 

The person who sold you the policy, is not responsible. The company is. He/she is just a poor wage worker. You have a totally wrong idea how things work. Im sorry but i really give up you don't know about legalities, accounting. ect. 

 

Just look at in a way you might understand. You buy a car at Toyota. Later the car is <deleted>. Is the toyota employee responsible or the Toyota dealer / Toyota ?.

 

Have you ever seen cases where they could actually go after the employee if he worked in good faith ?

Boiler rooms for all sorts of financial fraud, selling financial products that don't exist. Those people go to jail all the time. Middlemen have no excuses. If they're selling something fraudulent, then they deserve the consequences. If the money isn't there for the payout to the people who bought insurance policies, then that is fraud.

[mommysboy]

So that's business. They don't complain when they win big, do they?

[robblok]

1 minute ago, John Drake said:

Boiler rooms for all sorts of financial fraud, selling financial products that don't exist. Those people go to jail all the time. Middlemen have no excuses. If they're selling something fraudulent, then they deserve the consequences. If the money isn't there for the payout to the people who bought insurance policies, then that is fraud.

Yes they do however that is not the case here. The person selling the policy is working in good faith. Boiler room is totally different. God you hear a few terms and you think you know things.

 

These are big companies, the person selling this has no influence in the price of the policiy or a way of knowing this would not work. IE he is working in good faith. 

[tomazbodner]

8 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Let them go bankrupt, otherwise thousands of people would, whose claims they are denying. But we all know how this story would end.

Yes, very clever. You may wish for insurance companies to fold, but what about people who have bought insurance for cancer, surgeries, accidents, etc.? They'd be individually out of millions of baht for your satisfaction.

 

How about government makes COVID insurance mandatory for every foreigner in Thailand that has no SSO cover, a condition to extend stay, and jack up prices? Say 100k for COVID insurance for a year, which would make it 100 billion Baht in a year from 1 million foreigners - more than enough to cover insurance company losses on Thais.

 

How would you feel if that happened to you? You farang, 100k peanuts. You all rich.

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

The person selling the policy is working in good faith.

555

[robblok]

1 minute ago, John Drake said:

555

Your a funny guy no clue what your talking about to see this as boiler room. You really have NO clue. No education in the field.

 

In those boiler room they sell fake stuff and everyone is in on it. Small groups. Not huge companies where the person responsible for policy and setting the price probably never seen the people who sell the policies. People working boiler rooms know they are crooks. 

 

These people who sold these policies did not did get a huge cut nothing out of the ordinary.

 

Could you tell me what your job was before maybe i can give you an example in terms that you do understand. 

[rott]

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

You can't squeeze blood out of rock then the money is not there. Once the company is bankrupt and liquidated that is it. Im perfectly ok with it 

How many insurance companies have become insolvent and gone into liquidation through this problem.? 

Edited December 31, 2021 by rott