ICE vs EV, the debate thread

[Andrew Dwyer]

11 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

Have you already decided what you're gonna buy?

Let’s have a poll !!

 

My money is on an extended Atto 3 in black with black interior ?

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I am not surprised.

 

What did you go for?

I got the DeWalt DCD798D1 with an extra battery 🔋 pack. I really like the color, grib, body shape and hammer drill function.

Still, it will be hard to let go of the old ICE, but fuel consumption, oil change and maintenance does add up.

 

 

[KhunLA]

Unlimited range ... don't need no stinkn' petrol

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I got the DeWalt DCD798D1 with an extra battery 🔋 pack. I really like the color, grib, body shape and hammer drill function.

Still, it will be hard to let go of the old ICE, but fuel consumption, oil change and maintenance does add up.

 

 

 

That's not full electric; that's a modified hybrid.   I guess you couldn't make the full step to BEV.

 

But I'm glad you didn't go with that used Nissan Leaf with battery SOH of 60% and converted to all wheel drive with a couple of used Hatari fan motors put on the rear wheels. I'm not sure that used and modified EV from Somchai's Used EV Tent (formally Somchai's Performance ECU & Muffler Shop...Somchai is trying hard to transition to a new energy business) would have been a good idea because fan motor run capacitors don't last that long and having to press an old fan speed switch of 1/2/3 to shift to all wheel drive just seems awkward. 

[KhunLA]

Big oil & auto manufacturer will do anything to keep their keep their profits, and why China is the leader in BEVs and the solar industry.

https://thedriven.io/2024/05/14/nearly-all-major-car-companies-are-sabotaging-ev-transition-and-japan-is-worst-study-finds/

[SAFETY FIRST]

54 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

China is the leader in BEVs and the solar industry.

Chinese solar panels are catching on fire. 

 

Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire.

 

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/thousands-evacuated-from-sydney-olympic-park-aquatic-centre-after-solar-panels-on-roof-go-up-in-flames/news-story/b2c99ca23666e204d1e4f17bae4c11a3

 

Edited May 15 by SAFETY FIRST

[KhunLA]

31 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Chinese solar panels are catching on fire. 

 

Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre after "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire.

 

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/thousands-evacuated-from-sydney-olympic-park-aquatic-centre-after-solar-panels-on-roof-go-up-in-flames/news-story/b2c99ca23666e204d1e4f17bae4c11a3

 

Chinese ... nothing in the blip states that 

...  "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire."  

 

 

Not exactly all, or even close:

 

Maybe AU could catch up to the rest of the real world when installing large solar systems.  "User / install error"

 

Below paraphrased from here:

 

"In solar, rapid shutdown is a safety feature that quickly turns off or reduces the current of a rooftop PV system in case of an accident or emergency. It does this to stop an electrical arc from forming that can cause fires or deliver a lethal electric shock.

 

James Sturch, a technical director at inverter and energy storage giant SolarEdge says Australia lags behind the rest of the world on basic solar system safety measures like these.

 

“Many countries around the world, such as the United States, Canada, United Kingdom, Poland, Thailand, and others have already successively introduced rapid shutdown regulations to solve the safety issues associated with uncontrollable DC in solar PV systems,” 

 

“Currently in Australia there is nothing in place, or even being considered within the Standards process, or by safety or electrical regulators, which is as backwards as it sounds.”

Edited May 15 by KhunLA

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/3/2023 at 11:27 PM, Lacessit said:

I can't say I have driven one, just an electric scooter. Which was fun.

Ignorance is when a poster refuses to accept basic science and clear visual evidence of how that science works. Shooting the messenger is so much easier.

From that post I have no idea of which side you are on or what your point is. It makes it so much clearer when you include a quote so we know what you are on about.

[KhunLA]

58 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Chinese solar panels are catching on fire. 

 

Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire.

 

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/thousands-evacuated-from-sydney-olympic-park-aquatic-centre-after-solar-panels-on-roof-go-up-in-flames/news-story/b2c99ca23666e204d1e4f17bae4c11a3

 

As stated earlier, nothing in that new-blip states panels were from China.  But feel free to write the news for us.  No anti China hate here 

 

WARNING:  some of us know how to read

 

More CH Hater will spread the word ... 

The brainwashing continues 

 

Facebook haters not to be out done, although 1 got it correct...

 

Thinking out loud ... would the govt really contract an Aussie company to install solar system using solar panels from China, when AU is a leading manufacturer of.   And some key player names at that;

 

Edited May 15 by KhunLA

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Big oil & auto manufacturer will do anything to keep their keep their profits, and why China is the leader in BEVs and the solar industry.

https://thedriven.io/2024/05/14/nearly-all-major-car-companies-are-sabotaging-ev-transition-and-japan-is-worst-study-finds/

Interesting article, and definitely true with regards to the Japanese marques. But this is inherently false:

"Aside from Tesla, only Mercedes and BMW have EV production forecasts that align with the IEA’s updated 1.5°C scenario which requires 66% of all new car sales to be EVs by 2030.".

Volvo will be 50% fully electric by end of 2025 and 100% electric by 2030.  I am sure there are others too - pretty sure Audi have a similar target.

[vinny41]

Mercedes-Benz delays electrification goal, beefs up combustion engine line-up

The company now expects sales of electrified vehicles, including hybrids, to account for up to 50% of the total by 2030

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/mercedes-benz-hits-cars-returns-forecast-inflation-supply-chain-costs-bite-2024-02-22/

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Chinese solar panels are catching on fire. 

 

Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire.

 

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/thousands-evacuated-from-sydney-olympic-park-aquatic-centre-after-solar-panels-on-roof-go-up-in-flames/news-story/b2c99ca23666e204d1e4f17bae4c11a3

 

As Khun LA has already posted, they are not Chinese. Can you tell us where you got your information from that they were Chinese? Or did you just make it up? Please tell as you just make yourself look stupid and possibly racist by making that up.

The anti-Chinese propaganda gets swallowed by the gullible, it is really quite pathetic, and you are one of the worst swallowers. I will retract that comment when you show me the information you read that says they were Chinese. 

They were made by BP Solar (a subsidiary of BP - British Petroleum) by the way. 

Racist nonsense. I just want to know if you made that up yourself or did someone else make it up and you just swallowed it. Pathetic, truly pathetic.
 

Edit: Oh, and before you say BP Solar probably have them made in China, they don't. They are made in Australia. Their other manufacturing sites are the US, India, and Spain. No Chinese factories.

Edited May 16 by josephbloggs

[SAFETY FIRST]

36 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

As Khun LA has already posted, they are not Chinese. Can you tell us where you got your information from that they were Chinese? Or did you just make it up? Please tell as you just make yourself look stupid and possibly racist by making that up.

The anti-Chinese propaganda gets swallowed by the gullible, it is really quite pathetic, and you are one of the worst swallowers. I will retract that comment when you show me the information you read that says they were Chinese. 

They were made by BP Solar (a subsidiary of BP - British Petroleum) by the way. 

Racist nonsense. I just want to know if you made that up yourself or did someone else make it up and you just swallowed it. Pathetic, truly pathetic.
 

Edit: Oh, and before you say BP Solar probably have them made in China, they don't. They are made in Australia. Their other manufacturing sites are the US, India, and Spain. No Chinese factories.

Where did I say they were Chinese?

 

There are plenty of stories on the internet regarding Chinese solar panels catching fire. 

 

I posted relevant information regarding this thread.

 

Maybe there are members here that are unaware that solar panels catch on fire, that's why we have forums, informed stories are important to post. 

 

Don't be a child, telling others that they look stupid, it makes you a foolish person. 

 

Edited May 16 by SAFETY FIRST

[vinny41]

27 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

As Khun LA has already posted, they are not Chinese. Can you tell us where you got your information from that they were Chinese? Or did you just make it up? Please tell as you just make yourself look stupid and possibly racist by making that up.

The anti-Chinese propaganda gets swallowed by the gullible, it is really quite pathetic, and you are one of the worst swallowers. I will retract that comment when you show me the information you read that says they were Chinese. 

They were made by BP Solar (a subsidiary of BP - British Petroleum) by the way. 

Racist nonsense. I just want to know if you made that up yourself or did someone else make it up and you just swallowed it. Pathetic, truly pathetic.

BP closed its Solar business in 2011

British oil major BP shut down the remnants of its solar unit on Wednesday,

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bp-solar-idUSTRE7BK1CC20111221/

There has been a number of class A lawsuits against BP solar

https://www.bpsolarsettlement.com/

And they issued a Product advisory in 2012

This product advisory is being issued to communicate a potential risk when using certain BP Solar modules in specific types of installations. Testing has shown there is a limited risk of cable to busbar disconnection in the junction box that, in rare cases, may lead to a thermal event in certain applications of the products referenced below.   A thermal event, depending upon the severity, can cause secondary damage to

surrounding materials that are not fire resistant. 

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/products-and-services/bp-solar-product-advisory-2012.pdf

 

 

[josephbloggs]

10 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Where did I say they were Chinese?

Er, what?

You said:

"Chinese solar panels are catching on fire. 

 

Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire."

Do you have that short a memory?

 

[SAFETY FIRST]

2 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Er, what?

You said:

"Chinese solar panels are catching on fire. 

 

Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire."

Do you have that short a memory?

 

CHINESE SOLAR PANELS CATCH ON FIRE 

I'm yelling. 

 

Do you have a hearing problem? 

 

Edited May 16 by SAFETY FIRST

[josephbloggs]

7 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

BP closed its Solar business in 2011

Yes, they did. And?  The aquatic centre in question was built for the 2000 Sydney Olympics and used BP Solar panels. They still aren't Chinese, they were still made in Australia.

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

CHINESE SOLAR PANELS CATCH ON FIRE 

 

Do you have a hearing problem? 

 

So by saying "Chinese solar panels are catching on fire. Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire." you weren't implying those solar panels were Chinese??

Seriously, just admit you made a wrong assumption or a mistake, that's fine. But by trying to wriggle out of what you clearly said, well, you are just an obvious troll and no point in continuing a discussion. What you wrote is clear for anyone to see, or, erm, hear.

Edited May 16 by josephbloggs

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Yes, they did. And?  The aquatic centre in question was built for the 2000 Sydney Olympics and used BP Solar panels. They still aren't Chinese, they were still made in Australia.

I never said they were Chinese

BP Solar Closing Australian Cell Manufacturing Plant

March 2009

BP Solar has announced that it will stop producing solar photovoltaic (PV) cells and panels at its Sydney Olympic park plant in March 2009.

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/bp-solar-closing-australian-cell-manufacturing-plant#

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I never said they were Chinese

 

 

No, you didn't. Safety First did and I proved him wrong by saying they were BP solar panels manufactured in Australia. When you then replied that BP closed its solar division in 2011 I assumed you were trying to support him that they couldn't be BP panels as they closed 13 years ago. Otherwise why else would you post that?

If you weren't suggesting that then fair enough.

Edited May 16 by josephbloggs

[SAFETY FIRST]

19 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

So by saying "Chinese solar panels are catching on fire. Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire." you weren't implying those solar panels were Chinese??

Seriously, just admit you made a wrong assumption or a mistake, that's fine. But by trying to wriggle out of what you clearly said, well, you are just an obvious troll and no point in continuing a discussion. What you wrote is clear for anyone to see, or, erm, hear.

I never said the Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre solar panels were Chinese. 

 

What's wrong with you bloody people, read the comment, use a translation tool if English is not your first language. 

 

Bloody hell, what's wrong with people here? 

 

Problem with this forum, People just want to jump in and say people are stupid, it's like being back at school, no intelligence. And then they send a confused emoji. 

 

Grow up people. 

 

 

Edited May 16 by SAFETY FIRST

[KhunLA]

26 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I never said they were Chinese

BP Solar Closing Australian Cell Manufacturing Plant

March 2009

BP Solar has announced that it will stop producing solar photovoltaic (PV) cells and panels at its Sydney Olympic park plant in March 2009.

https://www.greenbiz.com/article/bp-solar-closing-australian-cell-manufacturing-plant#

They closed that plant, but they are far from out of the solar game ... wiki:

 

 

Certainly not being incognito about it:

Edited May 16 by KhunLA

[josephbloggs]

6 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I never said the Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre solar panels were Chinese. 

 

What's wrong with you bloody people, read the comment, use a translation tool if English is not your first language. 

 

Bloody hell, what's wrong with people here? 

 

Peoplejust want to jump in and say people are stupid. 

 

Grow up people. 

 

 

Good idea, I ran it by a translation tool. Chat GPT 4-o, released to great fanfare yesterday.  Just popped your entire post in and asked it what it thought:

 

It is reasonable to infer that the author of the statement is suggesting that the solar panels involved in the fire at the Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre were Chinese. This inference is based on the structure and wording of the statement:

1. The initial statement claims, "Chinese solar panels are catching on fire."
2. This is followed by mentioning a specific incident, "Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre 'all the solar panels on the roof' caught fire."
3. The use of these statements in succession implies a connection between the general assertion about Chinese solar panels and the specific incident at the Aquatic Centre.
    

So much easier to just say you made a mistake, we all do from time to time. If your prejudices lead you to believe anything electrical that catches fire must be Chinese that's ok. Just stop digging.

Anyway, I've enjoyed this, no need to continue further, you are really quite hilarious, and watching you get more and more flustered trying to unsay what you said - rather than just admitting a mistake - has been classic.

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

I never said the Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre solar panels were Chinese. 

 

What's wrong with you bloody people, read the comment, use a translation tool if English is not your first language. 

 

Bloody hell, what's wrong with people here? 

 

Problem with this forum, People just want to jump in and say people are stupid, it's like being back at school, no intelligence. And then they send a confused emoji. 

 

Grow up people. 

 

 

 

Seriously ... oh I see, it's just a coincidence, that statement is just before the news-blip.   No implication there.   How could we misconstrue that one 

 

4 hours ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Chinese solar panels are catching on fire. 

 

Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre "all the solar panels on the roof" caught fire.

 

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/thousands-evacuated-from-sydney-olympic-park-aquatic-centre-after-solar-panels-on-roof-go-up-in-flames/news-story/b2c99ca23666e204d1e4f17bae4c11a3

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

Interesting read and more related to (Chinese) EVs.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/05/china-tariffs-electric-vehicles-trade-war/678385/

[Andrew Dwyer]

 

In no way were you inferring that the solar panels on the Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre were Chinese 😂😂

 

Pathetic !!

[SAFETY FIRST]

39 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

 

In no way were you inferring that the solar panels on the Sydney Olympic Park Aquatic Centre were Chinese 😂😂

 

Pathetic !!

Why the pathetic comment?

 

Are you another uneducated person who can't read English? 

 

 

You can study online these days. 

 

Invest your time in online study (many English courses) instead of annoying others behind the keyboard. 

Edited May 16 by SAFETY FIRST

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Why the pathetic comment?

 

Are you another uneducated person who can't read English? 

 

 

You can study online these days. 

 

Invest your time in online study (many English courses) instead of annoying others behind the keyboard. 

My father use say something like that all the time ...

... "Do as I say, not as I do" ... when I pointed out his hypocrisy at times 

Edited May 16 by KhunLA

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

They closed that plant, but they are far from out of the solar game ... wiki:

 

 

Certainly not being incognito about it:

BP Solar ceased operations in 2011

BP announced plans in July to abandon its household and industrial rooftop solar activities to concentrate on the larger projects but said on December15 that even those were no longer viable.

The solar business at BP, which was set up around 40 years ago, has been shrinking since 2008 when the firm started exiting its manufacturing plants.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bp-solar-idUSTRE7BK1CC20111221/

From 2011 to 2017 BP was out of the solar market business

December 2017

BP Re-Enters Solar Power Market With $200 Million U.K. Deal

Oil major buys stake in U.K. photovoltaic firm Lightsource

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-15/bp-agrees-to-invest-200-million-in-solar-power-developer

 

Edited May 16 by vinny41
add

[SAFETY FIRST]

38 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

My father use say something like that all the time ...

... "Do as I say, not as I do" ... when I pointed out his hypocrisy at times 

My father always said never ASSUME.

 

We all know what happens if you assume.

 

Lots of people here assumed, now they are embarrassed, looking for a scapegoat for their Incompetence.