ICE vs EV, the debate thread

josephbloggs · December 12

Ok, I'll give it one more go then I'll stop feeding as this is pointless and a waste of time. You really do have comprehension issues. I am sure it is deliberate to troll people or maybe you only understand things that are written in emojis.

Quote

YOU criticized your own car choice as it has CVT............😂

I didn't criticise my choice of car - it's perfect for the job. I said it has a nasty CVT which it does: ALL CVTs are nasty and soulless. But for the job of getting my wife and kids to school and back it does an excellent job, and a CVT makes sense in that vehicle. I just don't like CVTs.

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Another mistake, I do not OWN a car...........😂

Another comprehension mistake on your behalf. I said "in your family". I assume you count your wife and son as being family.

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So A BMW X1 is a bottom of the range SUV.........😂

Yes, it is, especially the diesel variant.

KhunLA · December 12

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Say's a Chinese MG owner, you can't make this sh_t up....................😆................

Which one would you prefer to drive ... be honest if you can ... :coffee1:

richard_smith237 · December 12

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

be honest if you can ...

Being honest - neither. Given the amount of choice out there we can't just be limited to these.

Here's a quick list from AI... from any of the 'small cars'.... I'd be looking at the Chery EQ1 EV... (in fact, I might swap my motorcycle for one !!!)....

4myr · December 12

3 hours ago, transam said:

It would seem that many of you EV-ers here, going by this EV thread, are very interested in the Celerio (which is Latin for Swift), so may I suggest you go book a test drive..............

Before you follow our beloved budget car expert's advice, please do your due diligence where your Celerio has been produced. There are some which can be regarded as fuel efficient driving coffins. There is no record of NCAP rating that proves that the Rayong produced Celerio's do not have the same deficiencies as the Indians.

Quote

According to recent crash tests conducted by Global NCAP, the Maruti Suzuki Celerio safety rating has raised concerns among safety-conscious buyers. The Celerio received a zero-star rating for adult occupant protection and just one star for child occupant safety. These results highlight several safety deficiencies in the Celerio, particularly regarding occupant protection during a crash.

transam · December 12

45 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Which one would you prefer to drive ... be honest if you can ...

Don't be silly...........🙄

transam · December 12

21 minutes ago, 4myr said:

Before you follow our beloved budget car expert's advice, please do your due diligence where your Celerio has been produced. There are some which can be regarded as fuel efficient driving coffins. There is no record of NCAP rating that proves that the Rayong produced Celerio's do not have the same deficiencies as the Indians.

So............? :unsure:

KhunLA · December 12

57 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Being honest - neither. Given the amount of choice out there we can't just be limited to these.

Here's a quick list from AI... from any of the 'small cars'.... I'd be looking at the Chery EQ1 EV... (in fact, I might swap my motorcycle for one !!!)....

More about his anti MG/CN stance, since making note of me owning MG from CN, and has repeated his distain for.

Don't tell him, many of the components in the Celerio made from steel from CN. As do so many vehicles since CN is the largest export of steel.

richard_smith237 · December 12

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

More about his anti MG/CN stance, since making note of me owning MG from CN, and has repeated his distain for.

Don't tell him, many of the components in the Celerio made from steel from CN. As do so many vehicles since CN is the largest export of steel.

Your passionate advocacy for MG vehicles, often feels so entrenched in its own echo-chamber that it becomes challenging to take your views on EVs, particularly MGs, at face value.

It’s easy to present heavily biased information sourced from questionable origins, but achieving true balance is far more difficult when arguing from a position of bias. For instance, you criticised the Celerio’s safety performance while comparing it to a car that similarly lacks NCAP or ACAP ratings for the 2024 model - at least none that are readily available.

Moreover, you seem to double down on tangential points, such as the “steel stat” mentioned earlier, as though it fortifies your argument when in reality, it diverges entirely. By this logic, you might next argue that China’s dominance in global semiconductor production somehow validates MG’s superiority. Yes, much of the world’s manufacturing is rooted in China; that’s common knowledge. But citing this does little to address someone’s valid preference for another manufacturer, such as Suzuki.

It’s not necessarily disdain for MG or Chinese manufacturing that prompts objections, but rather the overt and repetitive bias in your presentation. I’ve teased you in the past about your palpable enthusiasm for MG, not because I harbour a personal dislike for the brand (though, admittedly, I’m not a fan), but because your overzealous advocacy often tips the scales too far with bias.

For example, while MG vehicles may offer competitive pricing, they are not inherently superior to their European, Japanese, or Korean counterparts. Their appeal largely stems from affordability, which is why you chose one.

Let’s be honest, if Tesla, Kia, or VW were priced equivalently to MG, it’s unlikely MG would have been your first choice.

You’ve made your decision based on personal preference, which is perfectly valid. However, the volume of cherry-picked and unbalanced commentary you share often weakens rather than strengthens your argument.

Sometimes, it’s enough to simply state: I like MG because they’re well-priced for what they offer. The same can be said for the Celerio and countless other vehicles within that price range.

4myr · December 12

Is a range of 420 km WLTP enough for long road trips in Thailand?

YES,

- my average speed on main roads is not more than 80-90 km/hr

- my bladder is more the limiting factor

- there are enough fast chargers on Thai main road network to stop and charge for more than 200 km not longer than 40 minutes

- in the latest EU survey, almost half of non BEV drivers want more than 500 km range, while 84% of BEV drivers are OK with their current range

NO,

- my ICE car can drive 500 km without refueling, so why do I have to compromise

- if my bladder asks me to stop, I don't need to stop for more than 15 minutes

- I don't need to stop for coffee or a snack cause I have my onboard pantry in my car

- my car engine is powerful enough to challenge the speed limit, so I can finish my journey faster

KhunLA · December 12

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Your passionate advocacy for MG vehicles, often feels so entrenched in its own echo-chamber that it becomes challenging to take your views on EVs, particularly MGs, at face value.

It’s easy to present heavily biased information sourced from questionable origins, but achieving true balance is far more difficult when arguing from a position of bias. For instance, you criticised the Celerio’s safety performance while comparing it to a car that similarly lacks NCAP or ACAP ratings for the 2024 model - at least none that are readily available.

Moreover, you seem to double down on tangential points, such as the “steel stat” mentioned earlier, as though it fortifies your argument when in reality, it diverges entirely. By this logic, you might next argue that China’s dominance in global semiconductor production somehow validates MG’s superiority. Yes, much of the world’s manufacturing is rooted in China; that’s common knowledge. But citing this does little to address someone’s valid preference for another manufacturer, such as Suzuki.

It’s not necessarily disdain for MG or Chinese manufacturing that prompts objections, but rather the overt and repetitive bias in your presentation. I’ve teased you in the past about your palpable enthusiasm for MG, not because I harbour a personal dislike for the brand (though, admittedly, I’m not a fan), but because your overzealous advocacy often tips the scales too far with bias.

For example, while MG vehicles may offer competitive pricing, they are not inherently superior to their European, Japanese, or Korean counterparts. Their appeal largely stems from affordability, which is why you chose one.

Let’s be honest, if Tesla, Kia, or VW were priced equivalently to MG, it’s unlikely MG would have been your first choice.

You’ve made your decision based on personal preference, which is perfectly valid. However, the volume of cherry-picked and unbalanced commentary you share often weakens rather than strengthens your argument.

Sometimes, it’s enough to simply state: I like MG because they’re well-priced for what they offer. The same can be said for the Celerio and countless other vehicles within that price range.

Bias I am .. although, also pointed out annoyances of. Stated more than a few times, BEVs aren't for everyone, for a variety of reasons. Thankfully, none of those apply to us.

If you can't charge at home, and an inpatient person, and don't care to be inconvenience to go charge, as I certainly would be, then no, BEV not for you.

Actually the ICEV presents that problem for us, living kind of rural. To top up the ICE version of the ZS we had, it was a special trip to the petrol station, as not along any of our daily route. Worst, involving u-turns, as on hwy #4, and always crowded. 5-10 mins after arriving before getting change and leaving. NO THANKS.

If had to do that, and CS might not be within 10 kms, then no. Though hard to believe, if that rural, you can't charge at home.

Loved our ICE ZS, and playing long game for my wife 22 yrs younger, me 70, and ain't going to be around a whole lot longer, upgrading to the BEV, saves her of any future hassle of maintaining and or buying another ICEV. She loves the 2020 & 2022 ZS more than I do. I was leaning towards the MG Extender in 2020 :cheesy:

But the basic, MT model, and, being diesel, that wasn't going to happen. Something I couldn't bring myself to own. Want the MG E-pick up, but she said stupid to have 2 vehicles, because "We ain't selling the ZS" :cheesy:

Can't argue that logic ... bi-atch

Price point was a big factor, as not a car person, and I think the prices for both ZSs was silly as hell, to go from point A to B. If not for the govt incentive, we'd still be quite happy with the ICE version. Still ignorant about the BEV performance ... so ignorant is bliss, would apply, and we'd never know what we were missing.

2020, what was on offer, and only the 'made in TH' cars at the 695k price point of the ZS, then there really wasn't any comparison. Sure they're all decent cars, with good drivetrains, and will last for few 100k kms, hopefully. But the ZS was a cut above, and I need a taller SUV, not a sedan, that's called a SUV. Getting in/out of the ZS is a breeze. We test drove almost everything that was available, in the <700k price point.

I wasn't spending more for 4 wheels, as first 3 cars, served well, but were basically crap, to be honest. Especially on the highway.

I only go on about the ZS, as that is all the personal experience I have with BEVs. Unlike the anti BEV folks, with little to no experience. If you've never test drove one, you really shouldn't comment about BEVs.

I only reply to posts, the anti folks, to correct the ignorance and bias, false narratives, they spew, so anyone on the fence, isn't swayed by their ... BS ... IMHO

transam · December 12

22 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Bias I am .. although, also pointed out annoyances of. Stated more than a few times, BEVs aren't for everyone, for a variety of reasons. Thankfully, none of those apply to us.

If you can't charge at home, and an inpatient person, and don't care to be inconvenience to go charge, as I certainly would be, then no, BEV not for you.

Actually the ICEV presents that problem for us, living kind of rural. To top up the ICE version of the ZS we had, it was a special trip to the petrol station, as not along any of our daily route. Worst, involving u-turns, as on hwy #4, and always crowded. 5-10 mins after arriving before getting change and leaving. NO THANKS.

If had to do that, and CS might not be within 10 kms, then no. Though hard to believe, if that rural, you can't charge at home.

Loved our ICE ZS, and playing long game for my wife 22 yrs younger, me 70, and ain't going to be around a whole lot longer, upgrading to the BEV, saves her of any future hassle of maintaining and or buying another ICEV. She loves the 2020 & 2022 ZS more than I do. I was leaning towards the MG Extender in 2020

But the basic, MT model, and, being diesel, that wasn't going to happen. Something I couldn't bring myself to own. Want the MG E-pick up, but she said stupid to have 2 vehicles, because "We ain't selling the ZS"

Can't argue that logic ... bi-atch

Price point was a big factor, as not a car person, and I think the prices for both ZSs was silly as hell, to go from point A to B. If not for the govt incentive, we'd still be quite happy with the ICE version. Still ignorant about the BEV performance ... so ignorant is bliss, would apply, and we'd never know what we were missing.

2020, what was on offer, and only the 'made in TH' cars at the 695k price point of the ZS, then there really wasn't any comparison. Sure they're all decent cars, with good drivetrains, and will last for few 100k kms, hopefully. But the ZS was a cut above, and I need a taller SUV, not a sedan, that's called a SUV. Getting in/out of the ZS is a breeze. We test drove almost everything that was available, in the <700k price point.

I wasn't spending more for 4 wheels, as first 3 cars, served well, but were basically crap, to be honest. Especially on the highway.

I only go on about the ZS, as that is all the personal experience I have with BEVs. Unlike the anti BEV folks, with little to no experience. If you've never test drove one, you really shouldn't comment about BEVs.

I only reply to posts, the anti folks, to correct the ignorance and bias, false narratives, they spew, so anyone on the fence, isn't swayed by their ... BS ... IMHO

You haven't mentioned your own bias and spew............ :unsure:

For instance, stating our lad's 2,500,000bht BMW is a cheap one just to get a BMW name, well, sunbeam, that comment buried you............🤔

KhunLA · December 12

19 minutes ago, transam said:

You haven't mentioned your own bias and spew............

For instance, stating our lad's 2,500,000bht BMW is a cheap one just to get a BMW name, well, sunbeam, that comment buried you............🤔

False once again. I didn't state it was 'a cheap one' ... silly expensive if you want my opinion. Your usually false spin though. There's nothing cheap (price wise) about any BMW.

I stated, the 'X1' was, one of the 'cheapest BMWs' ... there is a difference.

You certainly wouldn't buy one, since from CN.

richard_smith237 · December 12

43 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Bias I am .. although, also pointed out annoyances of. Stated more than a few times, BEVs aren't for everyone, for a variety of reasons. Thankfully, none of those apply to us.

[clipped]

Did you need any tissues while writing that ???... I think you mentioned your beloved MG about 10 times in that post.... :giggle:

KhunLA · December 12

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

I think you referenced your beloved MG about 10 times in that post....

I would hate to disappoint ...

... I'm here till the end of the year. Don't forget to tip your wait staff, and be careful driving home 😎

richard_smith237 · December 12

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

False once again. I didn't state it was 'a cheap one' ... silly expensive if you want my opinion. Your usually false spin though. There's nothing cheap (price wise) about any BMW.

I stated it was, one of the 'cheapest BMWs' ... there is a difference.

They're taxi's where I come from !!!..... Couldn't resist getting that one in !!!....

... Thats not my comment BTW - just the usual BS we get from posters whenever someone mentions Merc or BMW to display a healthy dose of reverse snobbery....

IMO - BMW Make excellent cars... and the X1 is also a great car. I think they now have the iX1 (which is electric though I'm not sure of the price in Thailand).

transam · December 12

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

False once again. I didn't state it was 'a cheap one' ... silly expensive if you want my opinion. Your usually false spin though. There's nothing cheap (price wise) about any BMW.

I stated, the 'X1' was, one of the 'cheapest BMWs' ... there is a difference.

You certainly wouldn't buy one, since from CN.

Now you are trying to get out of it.................. :clap2:

Plus, BMW X1 are assembled in Rayong, Thailand.....😂

But the lad doesn't care where it is assembled, only you do............😉

https://www.bmwgroup-werke.com/rayong/en/our-plant.html#:~:text=BMW Group Manufacturing Thailand produces,BMW X6 and BMW X7.

richard_smith237 · December 12

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I would hate to disappoint ...

... I'm here till the end of the year. Don't forget to tip your wait staff, and be careful driving home 😎

I had a MG ZS EV from GRAB the other day.... I must say I was so excited I may have pee'd a bit.... It was so much better than the Toyota Altis' that the flag-fall taxi's use.

In fairness to you LA... Your comments about the MG EV all make sense, as do the comments from those who have the BYD Seal.... I'd choose neither car, however, I can understand those who would - its just the 'waxing on about' that's amusing.....

.... BUUUUUTTTTT.... I really hope one doesn't catch fire - I think that might crash the forum as those still debating US politics get distracted...

KhunLA · December 12

😎

KhunLA · December 12

1 hour ago, transam said:

Now you are trying to get out of it..................

Plus, BMW X1 are assembled in Rayong, Thailand.....😂

But the lad doesn't care where it is assembled, only you do............😉

https://www.bmwgroup-werke.com/rayong/en/our-plant.html#:~:text=BMW Group Manufacturing Thailand produces,BMW X6 and BMW X7.

I could care less about the car, any BMW, any car over 1M baht. Or any ICEV.

I'd buy land for 1M, and have 2M in about 5 yrs. Or build another house somewhere before spending 1M for 4 wheels. A simple townhouse, just outside the main of Krung Thep, the most likely, if being frivolous, to avoid hotels when visiting daughter.

949k was silly enough for the ZS, but should be only once, for about 20+ yrs.

note to self ...

... ask 'where made' ... not ... 'if made in CN'

A few more places than just TH & CN

hmm ... RU - sanctions ? I guess not, profits more important 👍

richard_smith237 · December 12

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I could care less about the car, any BMW, any car over 1M baht. Or any ICEV.

C'mon - don't pretend an MG was your first choice... These brands exist for people without choice (no offence of course - its all in the 'eye of the beholder, but under 1MB there are a lot better choices, in my opinion of course)

transam · December 12

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

I could care less about the car, any BMW, any car over 1M baht. Or any ICEV.

I'd buy land for 1M, and have 2M in about 5 yrs. Or build another house somewhere before spending 1M for 4 wheels. A simple townhouse, just outside the main of Krung Thep, the most like, to avoid hotels when visiting daughter.

949k was silly enough for the ZS, but should be only once, for about 20+ yrs.

note to self ...

... ask 'where made' ... not ... 'if made in CN'

A few more places than just TH & CN

hmm ... RU - sanctions ? I guess not, profits more important 👍

It's OK, we all make mistakes, and I do know how to use Google...........😛

You made a stupid statement about our lad's BMW, yet you're not interested..... :whistling:

Perhaps time for you to move on... 😉

P.S. Celerio is Latin for Swift, BMW is German for Bayerische Motoren Werke (Bavarian Motor Works)or(Bavarian Engine Works).......🤭

KhunLA · December 12

24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

C'mon - don't pretend an MG was your first choice... These brands exist for people without choice (no offence of course - its all in the 'eye of the beholder, but under 1MB there are a lot better choices, in my opinion of course)

Not in 2022, actually our only choice, there was the ZS, and the Atto 3 was available, right after, or same time we put the deposit down for the ZS. Which we didn't even peek at, let alone test drive, the Atto 3. Had about 6 months to research and think if we really wanted the BEV. Wasn't interested in anything else; ORA Kitty cat, or Neta V.

We were really happy with the ICE ZS, and actually considered cancelling the BEV in mid Oct. We received Oct 30th. A month earlier, than 6 month window advised about.

MG was the only established dealership, along with Charging network, every 150 kms. So 2 major pluses for them. And, we already knew and liked the car.

Major plus, was the modular battery pack, encased in steel. Aside from network, edged out the Atto 3 for just those. Though hard to pass up the familiarity of the ZS, and not a new model on the market. ZS had a few years of history, and no major complaints.

Daughter has Atto 3, and very nice, and they are basically twins, specs for specs. Do like our seating though. Atto felt a little snug on me, and I'm not exactly large. Besides that, great car, a few bells & whistles than ZS.

Even today, of the 2 (ZS & Atto 3) I'd take the ZS, just for the seating. I don't want a sedan, or spending over 1M, or a non MG or BYD model. That would limit more choices even today.

If buying 2025, I'd probably get the MG E-pick up, if reasonably priced. Looks kind of cushy, and will probably be 1.5M-2M ballpark .... nah.

KhunLA · December 12

11 minutes ago, transam said:

It's OK, we all make mistakes, and I do know how to use Google...........😛

You made a stupid statement about our lad's BMW, yet you're not interested.....

Perhaps time for you to move on... 😉

P.S. Celerio is Latin for Swift, BMW is German for Bayerische Motoren Werke (Bavarian Motor Works)or(Bavarian Engine Works).......🤭

Too funny ...

... have a nice day

transam · December 12

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Too funny ...

... have a nice day

Your comment was, sort of.....😉

I'll tell the lad what you said, when he gets here, and hope he is not in uniform and unarmed...............😂

josephbloggs · December 12

1 hour ago, transam said:

Your comment was, sort of.....😉

I'll tell the lad what you said, when he gets here, and hope he is not in uniform and unarmed...............😂

What??? Because he paid 2.5m baht for a ridiculously overpriced bottom of the range BMW he might get angry and shoot someone??

You really need help.

transam · December 12

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

What??? Because he paid 2.5m baht for a ridiculously overpriced bottom of the range BMW he might get angry and shoot someone??

You really need help.

Its probably your age, can't see a joke from the trees.........🤣

And another that puts down a BMW because he hasn't got one...... :clap2:

josephbloggs · December 12

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Its probably your age, can't see a joke from the trees.........🤣

Oh I see, sorry it was absolutely hilarious. Maybe add even more emojis next time.

Quote

And another that puts down a BMW because he hasn't got one......

No, I put it down because it is horrendously overpriced for what you get. Much smarter ways to spend the same amount of money and get much much more for it. Much smarter ways to spend a lot less and get more too. You get very limited equipment (safety and luxury goodies), it is noisy and slow. But hey you get to say "I drive a BMW" which is important to some people. Up to him/you, but don't come on here bragging about it and expect not to get pulled up.

transam · December 12

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

Oh I see, sorry it was absolutely hilarious. Maybe add even more emojis next time.

No, I put it down because it is horrendously overpriced for what you get. Much smarter ways to spend the same amount of money and get much much more for it. Much smarter ways to spend a lot less and get more too. You get very limited equipment (safety and luxury goodies), it is noisy and slow. But hey you get to say "I drive a BMW" which is important to some people. Up to him/you, but don't come on here bragging about it and expect not to get pulled up.

Ooooh, the envy................ :clap2:

Stick to your Honda Click or MG chap, looking coooool...........😂

( I find it hard to believe that some on here tell people what to do as they would do, how to spend their money, etc.,very strange and narcissistic..🙄.)

josephbloggs · December 12

1 minute ago, transam said:

Ooooh, the envy................

Stick to your Honda Click or MG chap, looking coooool...........😂

( I find it hard to believe that some on here tell people what to do as they would do, how to spend their money, etc.,very strange and narcissistic..🙄.)

You are insufferable. And your reading comprehension issues are shining through again. Up to each person what they spend their money on.

I don't have an MG or a motorbike of any sort, not sure where you get your weird thoughts from. FWIW I have spent more than the BMW price on a couple of cars here and got much better specced and performing vehicles, but I didn't get "the badge" - that's not important to me at all, but it is to some people, that's fine - up to them.

Tiresome engaging with a troll. I'll stop now, good night.

transam · December 12

4 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

You are insufferable. And your reading comprehension issues are shining through again. Up to each person what they spend their money on.

I don't have an MG or a motorbike of any sort, not sure where you get your weird thoughts from. FWIW I have spent more than the BMW price on a couple of cars here and got much better specced and performing vehicles, but I didn't get "the badge" - that's not important to me at all, but it is to some people, that's fine - up to them.

Tiresome engaging with a troll. I'll stop now, good night.

Well it is tiresome you running folk down for buying a BMW, why don't you just accept folk can buy what ever they like.

If we all had your attitude, Rolls, Porche and all the other high-end brands would go out of business.

Now tell me, why aren't the high-end brands going out of business, in fact why do these brands have to build factories all over the world.....?

Take your time......... :coffee1:

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