JBChiangRai Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, vinny41 said: It is perfectly valid to look at the total number of vehicles sales for 2023 rather than looking at selective 2 months where the % of registrations are higher due to the EV 3.0 subsidy ending unless your working on the TAT projection model of number of tourists Here are the results of a Carsome survey This is the origin of the survey of 200 CARSOME customers in February 2023 until finding interesting information as follows. One in three consumers , or 30.2%, are likely to be interested in purchasing a used EV vehicle in the next 1-2 years. 23.3% still not sure 46.5% have no interest https://www.brandbuffet.in.th/2023/03/carsome-launch-used-car-ev/ As to more Buyers than sellers that doesn't appear to be the case given your daughter recent car sale advertised November 8th 2023 and still not completed and @brfsa2 recent post where he sold a 2019 MG ZS EV to Carsome who took 6 months to find a buyer Sorry but a survey a year ago is vastly out of date in this ever changing EV market. If you're going to look at numbers, it's more appropriate to take a number much higher than 9.8%, I agree the December number maybe should not be counted but in which case it's more appropriate to take an average of Nov 2023 and Jan 2024 to determine year end market size, which comes out over 18% Regarding my daughter's MG EP+, I rather hope the buyer doesn't complete as I'm sitting on a huge deposit and have the phone numbers of other buyers waiting in the wings. 3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: You can't have it both ways. You can use annual data, monthly data, or rolling data, but you can't just cherry-pick data. If you want to go by month, fine, but it looks like market share dropped 4% in a month. Car buying is seasonal. Indeed, it is, but as the market matures, at least in a couple years, at least short term, I would expect to an oversupply of used EVs, just because the technology is changing faster than ICEVs. More people wanting new ones, older units becoming less desirable. Who is buying EVs? It's likely not the poor. Long term I would not see it as an issue. I suggested another way to look at market size, it's currently 21% and by the end of the year likely to be 25-30%. We will have to agree to disagree on 2nd hand EV's. I think the latest models (BYD, ORA, Deepak) are going to be in great demand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, Yellowtail said: ~15.5 million new cars sold in the US in 2023 ~651 thousand new cars sold in Thailand in 2023 ~1.2 million EVs sold in the US in 2023 ~74 thousand EVs sold in Thailand in 2023 The Thailand market is ~4.2% of all cars sold in the US The Thailand market is ~6.2% of EVs sold in the US Thailand is not a big car market. I think used cars in Thailand historically have depreciated much slower than they do in the US. I can't speak to EV depreciation specifically, but it looks like cars are depreciating more quicky in Thailand now than they used to. People wanting to buy EVs may or may not have something to do with that. Comparing those two markets (USA & TH) is a bit silly. Completely different mindset of purchasers, along with income, and infrastructure of CS. Add the MSM of EVs are evil. Yank are brainwashed into macho, bigger and more powerful is better. Marketing ploy from the manufacturers, due to the 'green tax' on mid to large cars. Why everything is called an SUV now, and on truck platforms, so the manufacturer gets a tax break. The green tax did the complete opposite of promoting cars to burn less fossil fuel. Now the cars are simply larger, burn more, and classed as a truck. Take the salary of Thais vs Yanks. Why owning a practical trunk or scooter fits in their/Thais' finances. Imagine a bunch of yank riding Hondo Waves Anything smaller than a 750cc and you're laughed at. That was my first MC. EVs are a new market here, so yes, #s are small, though surprisingly high % of sales. Thais being more thrifty and not brainwashed, more practical in their purchases. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said: Sorry but a survey a year ago is vastly out of date in this ever changing EV market. If you're going to look at numbers, it's more appropriate to take a number much higher than 9.8%, I agree the December number maybe should not be counted but in which case it's more appropriate to take an average of Nov 2023 and Jan 2024 to determine year end market size, which comes out over 18% Regarding my daughter's MG EP+, I rather hope the buyer doesn't complete as I'm sitting on a huge deposit and have the phone numbers of other buyers waiting in the wings. I suggested another way to look at market size, it's currently 21% and by the end of the year likely to be 25-30%. We will have to agree to disagree on 2nd hand EV's. I think the latest models (BYD, ORA, Deepak) are going to be in great demand. Unless you working for TAT the total number of vehicles sales in Thailand was 775,780 of which 76,314 were EV sales which represents 9.8% of the total vehicle sales and no matter what way you try to spin the total market share of 2023 is doesn't change any of the figures above You should look at it as a great success story as the yearly EV figures for 2022 were 9,729 cars Edited February 8 by vinny41 typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 9 minutes ago, KhunLA said: Comparing those two markets (USA & TH) is a bit silly. Completely different mindset of purchasers, along with income, and infrastructure of CS. Add the MSM of EVs are evil. I thought we agreed you were not going to respond to any of my automotive related posts, no? I was only responding to someone that said Thailand was a large market. 9 minutes ago, KhunLA said: Yank are brainwashed into macho, bigger and more powerful is better. Marketing ploy from the manufacturers, due to the 'green tax' on mid to large cars. Why everything is called an SUV now, and on truck platforms, so the manufacturer gets a tax break. Yeah, I don't seen anyone driving pickups here. Everyone is just too stupid to buy an MG 9 minutes ago, KhunLA said: The green tax did the complete opposite of promoting cars to burn less fossil fuel. Now the cars are simply larger, burn more, and classed as a truck. Taxes rarely do what they are intended to do. 9 minutes ago, KhunLA said: Take the salary of Thais vs Yanks. Why owning a practical trunk or scooter fits in their/Thais' finances. Imagine a bunch of yank riding Hondo Waves Anything smaller than a 750cc and you're laughed at. That was my first MC. My first was a Rupp 9 minutes ago, KhunLA said: EVs are a new market here, so yes, #s are small, though surprisingly high % of sales. Thais being more thrifty and not brainwashed, more practical in their purchases. Yes, it's been proven time and again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I'm back in a diesel after 4yrs running both EV & PHEV. What needs to change to get me to go back? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPriority Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I lifted this graphic of 2023 ev sales off an Australian stalkbook site: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 11 hours ago, HighPriority said: I lifted this graphic of 2023 ev sales off an Australian stalkbook site: BYD launched in Australia during 2023 and the official launch date of the BYD Seal was 1/1/2024, it will be interesting to see how those numbers change this year. I expect BYD to overtake Tesla. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gweiloman Posted February 10 Popular Post Share Posted February 10 23 hours ago, vinny41 said: I'm back in a diesel after 4yrs running both EV & PHEV. What needs to change to get me to go back? I’m a subscriber to Harry’s Garage but in this case, I wasted 20 mins not learning anything new. Early on, he mentions that he does lots of regular long distance trips. It has been mentioned many times that an EV is not the best choice of vehicle under such scenarios. His other valid comments are about the price of public charging in the UK and inefficiency in cold weather. Very valid if you’re living in the UK, not so much if you’re living here in Thailand. Depreciation and insurance is another point. If you’re buying GBP 100k cars, then you are going to take a hit no matter what. A BYD Atto 3 or Dolphin at GBP 20k is not in the same ball park. One thing he doesn’t talk about is EV fires. Wonder why? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gweiloman said: I’m a subscriber to Harry’s Garage but in this case, I wasted 20 mins not learning anything new. Early on, he mentions that he does lots of regular long distance trips. It has been mentioned many times that an EV is not the best choice of vehicle under such scenarios. His other valid comments are about the price of public charging in the UK and inefficiency in cold weather. Very valid if you’re living in the UK, not so much if you’re living here in Thailand. Depreciation and insurance is another point. If you’re buying GBP 100k cars, then you are going to take a hit no matter what. A BYD Atto 3 or Dolphin at GBP 20k is not in the same ball park. One thing he doesn’t talk about is EV fires. Wonder why? People in the UK looking for Byd cars at GBP 20K are in for a long wait looking on Auto trader cheapest Byd car starts at £29K for a Dolphin and £31K for an used Atto 3 and £43K for Byd Seal https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Electric&make=BYD&moreOptions=visible&postcode=SW1A 2AA&sort=price-asc @KhunLA According to this your MG ZS EV has the best Energy consumption of electric vehicles rating of 297 Wh/mi for cars below B1,000,000 https://ev-database.org/uk/cheatsheet/energy-consumption-electric-car As your a subscriber to Harry’s Garage maybe you should ask him why he doesn't talk about EV fires Edited February 10 by vinny41 add 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 (edited) 46 minutes ago, vinny41 said: @KhunLA According to this your MG ZS EV has the best Energy consumption of electric vehicles rating of 297 Wh/mi for cars below B1,000,000 https://ev-database.org/uk/cheatsheet/energy-consumption-electric-car Thanks ... ... them cheap, crappy, Chinese MGs ... I don't why people buy 'em You keep finding more good stuff about our ZS than I do 👍 Edited February 10 by KhunLA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 32 minutes ago, KhunLA said: Thanks ... ... them cheap, crappy, Chinese MGs ... I don't why people buy 'em You keep finding more good stuff about our ZS than I do 👍 Because they're cheap and they like to dive crappy cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 A 9 Feb 2024 article from FoxNews which is a conservative/Republican leaning news agency and often use scare tactics in their news reports if those scare tactics paint the liberal/Democrat party in a bad light. Of course liberal leaning news agencies also use similar tactics when it suit their needs. So, take the article with a big grain of sale. But regardless, it's effective to suppress/slow down EV sales growth in the U.S. https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/cheap-chinese-evs-pose-security-risk-americans-keep-them-out-economist-warns Cheap Chinese EVs pose a 'security risk' to Americans: 'Keep them out,' economist warns 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 minute ago, Pib said: A 9 Feb 2024 article from FoxNews which is a conservative/Republican leaning news agency and often use scare tactics in their news reports if those scare tactics paint the liberal/Democrat party in a bad light. Of course liberal leaning news agencies also use similar tactics when it suit their needs. So, take the article with a big grain of sale. But regardless, it's effective to suppress/slow down EV sales growth in the U.S. https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/cheap-chinese-evs-pose-security-risk-americans-keep-them-out-economist-warns Cheap Chinese EVs pose a 'security risk' to Americans: 'Keep them out,' economist warns Did you read anything that was factually wrong in the article? Nothing stopping the Chinese from selling cars in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: Did you read anything that was factually wrong in the article? Nothing stopping the Chinese from selling cars in the US. USA ... "MG ZS EV: This subcompact SUV starts at $30,995" TH ... price <$24k All-in. A hefty 25% increase. Still better than owning the low spec'd POS Nissan Leaf, in either country. EVs aren't inexpensive in the USA USA ... Toyota Yaris ... $16.605 TH ... $15,556 ... not much difference ... hmm Edited February 10 by KhunLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Cook Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Ha ha ha after countless fools were dudded into a worthless virtue signalling dream, now even the manufacturers are giving up on the farce. ICE is here to stay for a long yet. Good luck when it comes to to trade or buy your next battery. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 1 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 29 minutes ago, KhunLA said: USA ... "MG ZS EV: This subcompact SUV starts at $30,995" TH ... price <$24k All-in. A hefty 25% increase. Still better than owning the low spec'd POS Nissan Leaf, in either country. EVs aren't inexpensive in the USA USA ... Toyota Yaris ... $16.605 TH ... $15,556 ... not much difference ... hmm Did you read anything that was factually wrong in the article? Nothing stopping the Chinese from selling cars in the US. USA: 2023 Toyota Prius Prime. Starting price: $32,350 2023 Chevrolet Bolt EV. Starting price: $26,500 2023 Nissan Leaf. Starting price: $28,140 2023 Mini Cooper SE. Starting price: $29,900 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GroveHillWanderer Posted February 10 Popular Post Share Posted February 10 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Jack Cook said: Ha ha ha after countless fools were dudded into a worthless virtue signalling dream, now even the manufacturers are giving up on the farce. ICE is here to stay for a long yet. Good luck when it comes to to trade or buy your next battery. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Which manufacturers are those? Do you have a source for that claim? And what makes you say EV owners will need to trade or buy a battery? Batteries are lasting longer than ever, with current experience and data indicating they will last longer than the vehicles themselves. As the article below from Forbes magazine states: Quote It’s clear that most EV batteries will outlast the vehicles they were installed in, and even then, they have a worthwhile second life before they need to be stripped down for recycling. Electric Car Batteries Lasting Longer Than Predicted Delays Recycling Programs Edited February 10 by GroveHillWanderer 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatOilWorker Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 4 hours ago, Jack Cook said: Ha ha ha after countless fools were dudded into a worthless virtue signalling dream, now even the manufacturers are giving up on the farce. ICE is here to stay for a long yet. Good luck when it comes to to trade or buy your next battery. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Luckily we have plenty of fuel left for all these lovely ICE vehicles 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KhunLA Posted February 10 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said: Luckily we have plenty of fuel left for all these lovely ICE vehicles 👍 Do you think we'll run out of solar or fossil fuels first ? Which one's price doesn't fluctuate, and the cost to provide increasing drops year after year, with every new advancement, unlike the dinosaur fuel that it is. Edited February 10 by KhunLA 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, KhunLA said: Do you think we'll run out of solar or fossil fuels first ? Which one's price doesn't fluctuate, and the cost to provide increasing drops year after year, with every new advancement, unlike the dinosaur fuel that it is. The price for solar generally does not drop if you include the real estate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted February 10 Author Share Posted February 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, Yellowtail said: The price for solar generally does not drop if you include the real estate. I don't need no stinkin' real estate ... ... "Solar-Powered Stella Vita Camper Has Pop-Up Roof, Pop-Out Panels It can travel up to 453 miles on a sunny day" Edited February 10 by KhunLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 5 minutes ago, KhunLA said: I don't need no stinkin' real estate ... ... "Solar-Powered Stella Vita Camper Has Pop-Up Roof, Pop-Out Panels It can travel up to 453 miles on a sunny day" Yeah, my engineering school had a solar powered car back in the '90s that wend coast to coast, so? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 This is what cars of the future will look like if there is no fossil fuel available https://flintstones.fandom.com/wiki/Flintmobile?file=The_Flintstones_Flintmobile.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gweiloman Posted February 11 Popular Post Share Posted February 11 20 hours ago, Jack Cook said: Ha ha ha after countless fools were dudded into a worthless virtue signalling dream, now even the manufacturers are giving up on the farce. ICE is here to stay for a long yet. Good luck when it comes to to trade or buy your next battery. 😂😂😂😂😂😂 What’s with all this virtue signalling malarkey that some anti EVers keep harping on about? You really should learn to keep up. Those fools who have bought an EV here in Thailand are, afaik, very happy with their purchases. Better to be a fool who is happy with whatever he has bought than an ignoramus who has complains about all his purchases. I get such delight when I look at my solar power installation app and see that the sun has thought fit to gift me with free travel. ICEs are here to stay for a long time yet. Enjoy handing over your cash to the petrol stations :). 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KhunLA Posted February 11 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 11 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Gweiloman said: What’s with all this virtue signalling malarkey that some anti EVers keep harping on about? You really should learn to keep up. Those fools who have bought an EV here in Thailand are, afaik, very happy with their purchases. Better to be a fool who is happy with whatever he has bought than an ignoramus who has complains about all his purchases. I get such delight when I look at my solar power installation app and see that the sun has thought fit to gift me with free travel. ICEs are here to stay for a long time yet. Enjoy handing over your cash to the petrol stations :). Yep ... and that 3k-5k a month saved pays for more than a few meals away from the house. Along with not costing anything to explore further away from the house to experience somewhere, something a bit different, without the petrol to do so, costing more then the meal. Nicest plus about our EV .. IMHO Takes me places I wouldn't normally go. Edited February 11 by KhunLA 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JBChiangRai Posted February 12 Popular Post Share Posted February 12 Four of the seven cars in the running for Car Of The Year 2024 are EV’s. http://m5.emails.telegraph.co.uk/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40lh593%2FBEKfZ3FMDII2JRAZa0g3JqROZDI%2BaO%2BhA11qkNbddUMnLSDhZ8IfzyF7mC0hH99VA0vWQLBXuFjIRzJw%3D%3D&WT.mc_id=e_DM276039&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_Ele_New&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_Ele_New20240210&utm_campaign=DM276039 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 car of the year 2023 - Google Search 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBChiangRai Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 18 minutes ago, Yellowtail said: car of the year 2023 - Google Search Last year, the UK car of the year was the MG4 EV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said: Four of the seven cars in the running for Car Of The Year 2024 are EV’s. http://m5.emails.telegraph.co.uk/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=%40lh593%2FBEKfZ3FMDII2JRAZa0g3JqROZDI%2BaO%2BhA11qkNbddUMnLSDhZ8IfzyF7mC0hH99VA0vWQLBXuFjIRzJw%3D%3D&WT.mc_id=e_DM276039&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_Ele_New&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_Ele_New20240210&utm_campaign=DM276039 It would appear that some manufacturers aren't interested in Car of the year Perhaps it is a measure of the perceived lack of importance for this understated award that Peugeot chose not to bring its new 3008, but what is the explanation for Volvo delivering a sole example of its highly-fancied EX30 with only a 2 per cent charge in the battery, not even enough to get it to the nearest charger? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/car-of-the-year-2024-uk-models-finalists-ranked/ Looking at the snapshot of each model the author isn't that keen on any model as stated in the comments section best described as None of the above 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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