establishing proof of parent

[Kleepanna]

Hello and happy New Year

 

I need some information if anyone can help me. I have a child due with a Thai national in February.  (I can assure all I did father the child we have been together 4 years and on my last visit we spent 4 months together in a condo with nothing to do but eat and watch Netflix!!! she is deathly afraid of covid and would only leave to shop for food and come back maddening!)

 The plan was for me to return for the birth of our child but the latest WAVE the pausing of test and go has changed that. The sandbox in her condition is not an option she views them as mass spreader locations and 16 days and 15 nights quarantine is something I can’t stomach again. 

 

That said we are planning as if I will not make it until the government changes its mind AGAIN.  She has asked me how can we establish IE me legally accept responsibility for the child since I will not be there to sign the birth certificate when she delivers.

I do understand that as the child's father the baby maybe entitled to dual citizenship (I am American) but I have no idea how that works and if it is applicable how to do it. Anyone that may have gone through this or something similar and can share information/advice we would greatly appreciate it.

 

She is good with our relationship we are not married but her mother is all about Saving Face is insisting something on paper to protect the baby. I can respect and appreciate her position if it were my daughter and she had a child out of wedlock I would advise her the same way. 

 

 I just feel some kind of way because I am no dead beat and would never abandon a child of mine.  I have been supportive of the process paying medical bills and purchasing everything the baby will need as well as providing a monthly stipend.  The transfer app I use allows me to document the reasons for sending money. 

 

Again to all Happy New Year and please be safe if you are in country and thanks for any response to this request. 

[Nino3]

The child, with no doubt shall qualify for US citizenship. You will need to register "The Birth Abroad" with the US consulate. I registered my son in Bangkok at around 13 months old. You will be asked a few questions regarding your relationship, whether or not you are certain the child is yours, etc. You will receive a certificate. I applied for my son's passport and social security number at same meeting. 

 

In hindsight, I would not apply for the social security number in Thailand. Apply in the US and have the card sent to your US address.

 

The aforementioned is the easy part. You must register yourself as the legal parent, if not legally married, of the child with the Thai government. Signature on the birth certificate does not satisfy the Thai government in regards to you being a legal parent. Do this rather immediately. Don't procrastinate.

 

"In Thailand, being the biological father of a child does not confer any parental rights even if the father is named on the birth certificate. The father can only be deemed the legitimate parent of the child in three ways. The first way is if the father and the mother are legally married at the time of the child’s birth or became legally married, the husband is deemed the legitimate parent. The second and third way for a father to legitimize their parental rights is through registration with the local Amphur with the mother’s consent or through a court judgment." (Siam Legal)

[Kleepanna]

11 minutes ago, Nino3 said:

The child, with no doubt shall qualify for US citizenship. You will need to register "The Birth Abroad" with the US consulate. I registered my son in Bangkok at around 13 months old. You will be asked a few questions regarding your relationship, whether or not you are certain the child is yours, etc. You will receive a certificate. I applied for my son's passport and social security number at same meeting. 

 

In hindsight, I would not apply for the social security number in Thailand. Apply in the US and have the card sent to your US address.

 

The aforementioned is the easy part. You must register yourself as the legal parent, if not legally married, of the child with the Thai government. Signature on the birth certificate does not satisfy the Thai government in regards to you being a legal parent. Do this rather immediately. Don't procrastinate.

 

"In Thailand, being the biological father of a child does not confer any parental rights even if the father is named on the birth certificate. The father can only be deemed the legitimate parent of the child in three ways. The first way is if the father and the mother are legally married at the time of the child’s birth or became legally married, the husband is deemed the legitimate parent. The second and third way for a father to legitimize their parental rights is through registration with the local Amphur with the mother’s consent or through a court judgment." (Siam Legal)

Thanks so much for the reply this information will be put to use!

 

[ChaiyaTH]

You still miss out on the fact you would nog be a legal father in Thailand itself, nor have rights, in this case. Makes the US passport quite useless unless she allowed you to take him.

 

My son has a Dutch passport too yet I have no parents rights at all, yet. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by ChaiyaTH

[Kleepanna]

Im confused by all of this as I do know of Thai women who have children with a forefinger and simply stated the father's name on the birth certificate at the hospital with the family name of the father then registered the birth at the AMPOR without being married the children are dual citizens and have passports for both countries.   

[Kleepanna]

On 2/18/2022 at 4:04 PM, ChaiyaTH said:

You still miss out on the fact you would nog be a legal father in Thailand itself, nor have rights, in this case. Makes the US passport quite useless unless she allowed you to take him.

 

My son has a Dutch passport too yet I have no parents rights at all, yet. 

Im confused by all of this as I do know of Thai women who have children with a forefinger and simply stated the father's name on the birth certificate at the hospital with the family name of the father then registered the birth at the AMPOR without being married the children are dual citizens and have passports for both countries.   

[Kleepanna]

On 1/11/2022 at 6:10 PM, Kleepanna said:

Thanks so much for the reply this information will be put to use!

 

Im confused by all of this as I do know of Thai women who have children with a forefinger and simply stated the father's name on the birth certificate at the hospital with the family name of the father then registered the birth at the AMPOR without being married the children are dual citizens and have passports for both countries.   

[Kleepanna]

I'm in a bad spot now my as the father is on the birth certificate but my child has her mother's family name the hospital and local AMPOR will not permit her to give my family name to the child becasue we are not married and for some reason they are saying even if we do marry its too late the marriage would have to be recorded prior to the birth I now things can be handled differently depending on where you live she is in Chanthaburi I have never seen it like this in BKK PHUKET CHONBURI etc.  I not sure hiring a lawyer will change anything. 

[hanuman2543]

23 minutes ago, Kleepanna said:

Im confused by all of this as I do know of Thai women who have children with a forefinger and simply stated the father's name on the birth certificate at the hospital with the family name of the father then registered the birth at the AMPOR without being married the children are dual citizens and have passports for both countries.   

This isn't true. If you are not married and the child is under 7 years you have to approach the Family court to gain parental rights. I did that when my son was born. What Nino3 wrote is correct.

And btw I have full parental rights like the mother.

And for dual citizenship. My government(German) insisted of going through the Family Court route before granting dual citizenship for my son.

Edited March 9, 2022 by hanuman2543

[Bangel72]

The following is my layman understanding. Generally for many countries if your name is on the birth certificate and you agree the mother can apply for a child passport in your country. My son has UK passport, note the mother had to apply and not me. I do not believe the child can take your name on birth certificate but Thais change there names all the time just for luck.

 

Recommend you also register birth with your embassy before going for passport.

 

If not married you are not the initially the legal parent in Thailand, this impacts parental responsibilities and things like legal child benefit which you will likely not be liable to unless the parenthood is legitimized. International law and your own countries laws on this may differ.

This also impacts travelling outside the country with your kid if the mother does not join you, this needs the mothers permission, some say a signed letter will suffice. Get married and you become guardian, not sure if divorce takes that away????

 

You can register for legal parent status but I have seen mixed views on this, in some case I heard the child needs to be old enough to confirm in court but others seem to have done this earlier. 

 

You can also likely have consensual agreement on payments that can be registered at district office that can become enforceable later, that might be what she is looking for.

 

 

[Kleepanna]

I appreciate all this I really do the best thing I can do for now is just wait until I get back there and see what I can sort out it gets worse by the day some how the village chief has gotten involved and is insisting on approval of any name change be conditional on marriage.  She has offered to get married just to appease them long enough to get the name change then divorce as she doesn't want to force e to marry her.

[Kleepanna]

12 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

The following is my layman understanding. Generally for many countries if your name is on the birth certificate and you agree the mother can apply for a child passport in your country. My son has UK passport, note the mother had to apply and not me. I do not believe the child can take your name on birth certificate but Thais change there names all the time just for luck.

 

Recommend you also register birth with your embassy before going for passport.

 

If not married you are not the initially the legal parent in Thailand, this impacts parental responsibilities and things like legal child benefit which you will likely not be liable to unless the parenthood is legitimized. International law and your own countries laws on this may differ.

This also impacts travelling outside the country with your kid if the mother does not join you, this needs the mothers permission, some say a signed letter will suffice. Get married and you become guardian, not sure if divorce takes that away????

 

You can register for legal parent status but I have seen mixed views on this, in some case I heard the child needs to be old enough to confirm in court but others seem to have done this earlier. 

 

You can also likely have consensual agreement on payments that can be registered at district office that can become enforceable later, that might be what she is looking for.

 

 

I appreciate all this I really do the best thing I can do for now is just wait until I get back there and see what I can sort out it gets worse by the day some how the village chief has gotten involved and is insisting on approval of any name change be conditional on marriage.  She has offered to get married just to appease them long enough to get the name change then divorce as she doesn't want to force e to marry her.

[Bangel72]

I would not recommend the pretend marriage route, it will come back and haunt you later.

 

Why is the name change important at this point?

 

Let the kid grow up a bit and let it be their choice regarding taking your name, bit unfair forcing name change on a kid at this point without good reason the benefits the kid.

[Nino3]

23 hours ago, Kleepanna said:

Im confused by all of this as I do know of Thai women who have children with a forefinger and simply stated the father's name on the birth certificate at the hospital with the family name of the father then registered the birth at the AMPOR without being married the children are dual citizens and have passports for both countries.   

 

I have a son with my Thai national GF. We were/are not married. I am identified as the father on my son's Thai birth certificate as well as the birth abroad document from the US Consulate.

 

In order to be recognized as the legitimate father under Thai law I had to also register as the father at the local Amphur. Amphur required the GF's approval as well as two witnesses, one plus the village headman, confirmed I was the father. Still not sure how either were positive I was the father. 

 

Research what (hanuman2543) stated regarding child's age. This may/will determine whether you go only to the Amphur or to the Court. 

 

Again, the US consulate had only a few questions. The man simply asked the GF if she was sure that I was the child's father and asked me the same question. Both answered yes and he directed us to the pay window.

 

My son has dual citizenship and passports from Thailand and the US. 

 

How/why did you get recorded as the father on the birth certificate and then the mothers family name recorded as the Childs legal name?

 

 

[Nino3]

35 minutes ago, Bangel72 said:

I would not recommend the pretend marriage route, it will come back and haunt you later.

 

Why is the name change important at this point?

 

Let the kid grow up a bit and let it be their choice regarding taking your name, bit unfair forcing name change on a kid at this point without good reason the benefits the kid.

I agree in regards to the pretend marriage route. Bad, Bad idea.

 

Greatest benefit for the child would be dual citizenship and holding two passports. However, if you are correct in that the mother can apply for the childs foreign country passport then a name change wouldn't be necessary at this time. Does the child need the Op's legal family name to qualify for the foreign passport or does the OP being recorded as the father qualify the child? 

[hanuman2543]

49 minutes ago, Nino3 said:

 

I have a son with my Thai national GF. We were/are not married. I am identified as the father on my son's Thai birth certificate as well as the birth abroad document from the US Consulate.

 

In order to be recognized as the legitimate father under Thai law I had to also register as the father at the local Amphur. Amphur required the GF's approval as well as two witnesses, one plus the village headman, confirmed I was the father. Still not sure how either were positive I was the father. 

 

Research what (hanuman2543) stated regarding child's age. This may/will determine whether you go only to the Amphur or to the Court. 

 

Again, the US consulate had only a few questions. The man simply asked the GF if she was sure that I was the child's father and asked me the same question. Both answered yes and he directed us to the pay window.

 

My son has dual citizenship and passports from Thailand and the US. 

 

How/why did you get recorded as the father on the birth certificate and then the mothers family name recorded as the Childs legal name?

 

 

It is the same with my son. He has the family name of my GF and I am the father on the birth certificate. Normally the hospital is informing the authorities and doing the paper work. My stepson had the family name of his father from birth till the day my GF changed it at the Amphoe. My experience in Thailand is that a name change is really easy so nothing to worry.

Edited March 10, 2022 by hanuman2543

[Kleepanna]

On 3/9/2022 at 11:54 PM, Bangel72 said:

I would not recommend the pretend marriage route, it will come back and haunt you later.

 

Why is the name change important at this point?

 

Let the kid grow up a bit and let it be their choice regarding taking your name, bit unfair forcing name change on a kid at this point without good reason the benefits the kid.

Benefits having my family name will entitle my daughter with my benefits even in death she would be able to collect social security benefits as an American  citizen until age 22 I can cover her with life insurance medical and dental insurance now with it.

[Kleepanna]

On 3/9/2022 at 11:54 PM, Bangel72 said:

I would not recommend the pretend marriage route, it will come back and haunt you later.

 

Why is the name change important at this point?

 

Let the kid grow up a bit and let it be their choice regarding taking your name, bit unfair forcing name change on a kid at this point without good reason the benefits the kid.

Benefits I cant afford they baby any of the benefits from my employment, cover with insurance, or entitlement of my retirement benefits God forbid that my life is cut short she would be able to claim these benefits. 

[BritManToo]

On 1/12/2022 at 3:51 AM, Kleepanna said:

I do understand that as the child's father the baby maybe entitled to dual citizenship (I am American) but I have no idea how that works and if it is applicable how to do it. Anyone that may have gone through this or something similar and can share information/advice we would greatly appreciate it.

Send her a copy of your passport photo page.

That's it.

[Kleepanna]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:59 PM, BritManToo said:

Send her a copy of your passport photo page.

That's it.

I did I'm at least listed in the birth certificate as the father now but the family name the local ampor won't change I'm sure if I were in a large city BKK say this would be a smooth and simple transaction but that village man they old fashioned like that I'm going to see if the translation new birth certificate can get me started with the embassy

[Kleepanna]

As December for US citizen you can submit an application online CRBA consular report for birth abroad. You will answer some questions and upload documents as proof for those answers. Once you have correctly completed the application there is $100 USD fee. You must be in Thailand physically to schedule an appointment at the embassy. Bring all documents you uploaded with the application along with your child and the Thai parent. During this interview if you need to make any changes to your child's name let the consular know during the interview. They have you write a statement explaining the reason for the change both parents sign and the name will be changed. You will also have the opportunity to apply for your child's passport.  You can have the picture done on site. The fee for the passport as of December 2023 is $135 USD.