Comment As You Like

[Tippaporn]

I just watched this video by the always excellent Neil Oliver, entitled "Are there any leaders left worthy of the trust of decent people?"  Oliver highlights in impeccable fashion the flaunting of trust by governments, politicians, and other venerable institutions, including science.

Comment as you like.  I place no boundaries so the discussion is free to go where it will, and branch out as it may.
 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

I watched it long cut short so I missed some but and I note he infers that the leaders of the UK worked out that the pandemic wasn't so bad but they continued with the rules. I don't think that makes sense as Johnson himself was apparently very sick at one point. Lot's of people did die. 

I just get sick of people extrapolating beyond what they know.

What we do know is that the bureaucratic rules for covid could be cruel at times. I believe some politicians did their best and others did things to be perceived as they were doing the right thing but there's no major conspiracy of government or corporate control. 

As for why leaders don't seem worthy you can blame the voters and the fact that worthy means different things to different people. There are idealistic people on the left who are seen by many as too idealistic and not being in tandem with human nature and reward for effort. There are well meaning politicians on the right who are seen by many as cruel and not fair to the average person. As soon as you come across as well meaning you are deemed fake or woke or too worthy. So we get the politicians we get. 

[scubascuba3]

I can't listen to Neil Oliver, he loves his own voice too much, it grates

[seedy]

Since man walked on two legs, and most likely before -

"Remember the Golden Rule - He who has the Gold makes the Rules"

How do you think politicians get elected ? By running a campaign.

Who pays for that campaign ? There is that Golden Rule again.

Look at the BS spouted about EV's. Who gains - Big Oil.

Talk about people killed in traffic in LOS - as of 2018 170 people a day, in the USA alone, die from opioid overdoses. And we ain't talking about no Golden Triangle source. Who Gains - Big Pharma.

GMO seed blows from a farmers field onto his neighbor, and said neighbor is taken to court. Who Gains - Big Agro.

I could go on and on, but what's the point ?

Search no further for the villains - they are there, right in front of us all, in every country on the globe.

[Kwasaki]

I'm sick and tired of people like him he has an opinion it's not everyone's and the media alike.

 

Let's wait to someone makes a  mistake and pouce.

 

It was a pandemic full stop mistakes were made like they are in war. 

 

The elected UK PM and his cabinet should be allowed to do what they wish in a crisis not as others are to, there running country let them get on and do just that. 

[StayinThailand2much]

Neil Oliver is awesome. I love his knowledgeable documentaries, and also his easy to listen-to Scottish accent.

 

He should become minister in charge of Scotland's heritage and culture.

 

And yes, trust in democracy as an institution, politics, and politicians is underrated these days, but even more necessary than, say 30 years ago, particularly due to the long-term threat from China.

Edited January 17, 2022 by StayinThailand2much

[Tippaporn]

I don't get some of the comments.  Oliver is speaking of trust as an essential component of the social contract.  And the ways in which that trust has been betrayed, especially as it relates to the pandemic.  So what, specifically, is Oliver saying that people find objectionable?  Give me a direct quote from the above video.  And if anyone can't do that then, well, what are the detractors on about?

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

"Are there any leaders left worthy of the trust of decent people?" 

Silly question. The only answer ( IMO ) is NO.

Edited January 17, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

Given the media's propensity to destroy anyone that tries to become a politician, IMO only the less "desirable" seek office now.

Had Jack Kennedy stood now, he would have been ripped to shreds given his apparent womanising, but the media gave him a pass on that- long ago and a different world.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

The elected UK PM and his cabinet should be allowed to do what they wish in a crisis not as others are to, there running country let them get on and do just that. 

Sounds like dictatorship to me. If they want that sort of power they should declare a state of emergency and suspend parliament for the duration.

Even during WW1 Britain had elections.

[meechai]

How well timed is this video...In general it applies to every country but especially so to Thailand

How he speaks of lost trust in political elected & then the Police who side with the corrupt leaders against protestors etc.

 

But yes this Pandemic? World wide has showed clearly what many already knew not only about the corrupt officials that

believe  as Obama's hitman Rahm use to say........

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”

 

They take your freedoms & use their new increased powers to sidestep further & further from anything we thought was fair & honest

 

BUT also this pandemic? has shown what many also knew...Disgusting Politicians aside..........

There are enough sheeple in this world that will bah & bleat & repeat anything their supposed leaders tell them.

This due to their unabated fear & also not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them

 

To me these sheeple were in fact worse than the lying scum politicians that used the pandemic to further their own political goals while trampling their employers

Because these sheeple turned on their own in their blind fear of what was always a 99% survivable virus

 

Overall the whole mess was a disgusting expose of the current state of humanity in general

 

[seedy]

12 minutes ago, meechai said:

How well timed is this video...In general it applies to every country but especially so to Thailand

How he speaks of lost trust in political elected & then the Police who side with the corrupt leaders against protestors etc.

 

But yes this Pandemic? World wide has showed clearly what many already knew not only about the corrupt officials that

believe  as Obama's hitman Rahm use to say........

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”

 

They take your freedoms & use their new increased powers to sidestep further & further from anything we thought was fair & honest

 

BUT also this pandemic? has shown what many also knew...Disgusting Politicians aside..........

There are enough sheeple in this world that will bah & bleat & repeat anything their supposed leaders tell them.

This due to their unabated fear & also not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them

 

To me these sheeple were in fact worse than the lying scum politicians that used the pandemic to further their own political goals while trampling their employers

Because these sheeple turned on their own in their blind fear of what was always a 99% survivable virus

 

Overall the whole mess was a disgusting expose of the current state of humanity in general

 

Well Said ...

Anyone who thinks Boris 'The Fourth Stooge' acted correctly ...

 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, meechai said:

How well timed is this video...In general it applies to every country but especially so to Thailand

How he speaks of lost trust in political elected & then the Police who side with the corrupt leaders against protestors etc.

 

But yes this Pandemic? World wide has showed clearly what many already knew not only about the corrupt officials that

believe  as Obama's hitman Rahm use to say........

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”

 

They take your freedoms & use their new increased powers to sidestep further & further from anything we thought was fair & honest

 

BUT also this pandemic? has shown what many also knew...Disgusting Politicians aside..........

There are enough sheeple in this world that will bah & bleat & repeat anything their supposed leaders tell them.

This due to their unabated fear & also not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them

 

To me these sheeple were in fact worse than the lying scum politicians that used the pandemic to further their own political goals while trampling their employers

Because these sheeple turned on their own in their blind fear of what was always a 99% survivable virus

 

Overall the whole mess was a disgusting expose of the current state of humanity in general

 

Excellent post.

nearly 2 years in and no sign of them giving up their power grab any time soon. God help us, as no one else will.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, seedy said:

Well Said ...

Anyone who thinks Boris 'The Fourth Stooge' acted correctly ...

 

Boris has been a big disappointment to me. I thought he was different, but I was sooooooo wrong. He turned out just like the rest when the crunch came.

[Tippaporn]

30 minutes ago, meechai said:

How well timed is this video...In general it applies to every country but especially so to Thailand

How he speaks of lost trust in political elected & then the Police who side with the corrupt leaders against protestors etc.

 

But yes this Pandemic? World wide has showed clearly what many already knew not only about the corrupt officials that

believe  as Obama's hitman Rahm use to say........

“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.”

 

They take your freedoms & use their new increased powers to sidestep further & further from anything we thought was fair & honest

 

BUT also this pandemic? has shown what many also knew...Disgusting Politicians aside..........

There are enough sheeple in this world that will bah & bleat & repeat anything their supposed leaders tell them.

This due to their unabated fear & also not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them

 

To me these sheeple were in fact worse than the lying scum politicians that used the pandemic to further their own political goals while trampling their employers

Because these sheeple turned on their own in their blind fear of what was always a 99% survivable virus

 

Overall the whole mess was a disgusting expose of the current state of humanity in general

A most excellent synopsis, meechai.  

I've yet to hear back from a single poster banging on Oliver to cite a single quote from the video and show how it is objectionable.

 

15 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

<snip>

 

Let's wait to someone makes a  mistake and pouce.

 

<snip>

LOL.  Who came to the aide of Trump with this line of defense?
 

15 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

<snip>

 

It was a pandemic full stop mistakes were made like they are in war. 

 

<snip>

We're nigh on two years on and not a single therapeutic or treatment has yet been developed.  That fact alone is utterly fantastical yet true.  Is that one of the "mistakes" you refer to, Kwasaki?  Does the fact that any workable therapeutic or treatment would spell the end of the experimental "vaccines"  register with you at all?  Cui bono?  Do you even ask the question?

And yes, we are in a war.  I will agree with you on that point.

 

15 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

<snip>

 

The elected UK PM and his cabinet should be allowed to do what they wish in a crisis not as others are to, there running country let them get on and do just that. 

TBL nailed this very well.  What you're suggesting here is giving government dictatorial powers.  Do you understand the madness in that suggestion?

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Tippaporn

[Guest Isaanlife]

You place no boundaries?

 

That's a laugh in an open forum

[Tippaporn]

11 minutes ago, seedy said:

Well Said ...

Anyone who thinks Boris 'The Fourth Stooge' acted correctly ...

 

Why the idea of vaccine passports is conspiracy theory!!  Silence these heretics!!  LOL

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

What you're suggesting here is giving government dictatorial powers.  Do you understand the madness in that suggestion?

That's what they have in China or Nth Korea. I wonder if he prefers their way?

[Tippaporn]

5 minutes ago, Isaanlife said:

You place no boundaries?

 

That's a laugh in an open forum

There are those posters who excuse themselves from engaging in tangential but relevant debates because it would be "going off topic."  I'm simply being up front in denying them such excuse.

[Tippaporn]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's what they have in China or Nth Korea. I wonder if he prefers their way?

That's one of the maddening aspects of the world today, in my opinion.  The depth of thinking for so many is as shallow as a puddle.  Implications and consequences?  What implications and consequences?

[Tippaporn]

18 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I can't listen to Neil Oliver, he loves his own voice too much, it grates

Is that the reason you give for dismissing excellent and important points out of hand?  It does excuse you for having to actually address and debate what he says on their merits.  The easy way out?

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sounds like dictatorship to me. If they want that sort of power they should declare a state of emergency and suspend parliament for the duration.

Even during WW1 Britain had elections.

They have been elected of course it's not dictatorship you are a example of how things get put out of context by people.              Media frienzy encluded. 

 

[Tippaporn]

19 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I watched it long cut short so I missed some but and I note he infers that the leaders of the UK worked out that the pandemic wasn't so bad but they continued with the rules. I don't think that makes sense as Johnson himself was apparently very sick at one point. Lot's of people did die.

 

<snip>

What is the survival rate by age group for Covid?  Do you know?  Do you have the numbers?  Can you show them?  We can then talk about Oliver's suggestion that the responses were not warranted.

 

19 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

<snip>
 

I just get sick of people extrapolating beyond what they know.

 

<snip>

Is it a question of someone not knowing or is it a question of someone with a different point of view who then gets smeared as someone who is out of their league?  Which one is it?

 

19 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

<snip>

 

What we do know is that the bureaucratic rules for covid could be cruel at times.

 

<snip>

Even murderous?  In the literal sense?

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

They have been elected of course it's not dictatorship you are a example of how things get put out of context by people.              Media frienzy encluded. 

 

 

15 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

<snip>

 

The elected UK PM and his cabinet should be allowed to do what they wish in a crisis not as others are to, there running country let them get on and do just that. 

Your exact words as highlighted, italised and underscored.  How has this been pulled out of context?

"We have a medical emergency.  Any human right which would interfere with the implementation of our diktats is hereby suspended.  We are also the sole sources of truth and we therefore allow no challenges to that which we decree to be true."

Sounds like a dictatorship to me.

[Tippaporn]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Silly question. The only answer ( IMO ) is NO.

There are a few.  And they are smeared and disparaged mercilessly and endlessly as the figurative anti-Christs.

[Kwasaki]

46 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

LOL.  Who came to the aide of Trump with this line of defense?
 

We're nigh on two years on and not a single therapeutic or treatment has yet been developed.  That fact alone is utterly fantastical yet true.  Is that one of the "mistakes" you refer to, Kwasaki?

 

Does the fact that any workable therapeutic or treatment would spell the end of the experimental "vaccines"  register with you at all?  Cui bono?  Do you even ask the question?

And yes, we are in a war.  I will agree with you on that point.

 

TBL nailed this very well.  What you're suggesting here is giving government dictatorial powers.  Do you understand the madness in that suggestion?

 

Nothing to do with Trump.

 

 No it isn't.

 

Why would I, that's for Scientists.

 

Yes germ warfare something never experienced before.

 

They have been ELECTED to run the country during a pandemic they should have a free hand to do so.

To mention dictatorship is for OCD people. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

There are a few.  And they are smeared and disparaged mercilessly and endlessly as the figurative anti-Christs.

I know of none but two personally- I'm sure there must be more, but I'm not acquainted with them. Even Churchill, who saved the world from Hitler had feet of clay.

 

One I refer to was David Lange, PM of NZ some time ago that brought hope to the populace, and IMO sabotaged by bad people. The other is Chuan Leekpai, former PM of Thailand that I had great respect for.

[BritManToo]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Boris has been a big disappointment to me. I thought he was different, but I was sooooooo wrong. He turned out just like the rest when the crunch came.

Boris was only elected as Tory leader because he wasn't May.

Boris was only elected as PM because he wasn't Jeremy.

 

Same in the USA

Donald was elected because he wasn't Hillary.

 

We have the same problems in the UK as all the other western countries.

ALL the applicants for leaders are unsuitable sock puppets for God knows who. 

Until voting forms have the option 'No suitable candidate', democracy has failed. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by BritManToo

[Kwasaki]

14 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Your exact words as highlighted, italised and underscored.  How has this been pulled out of context?

"We have a medical emergency.  Any human right which would interfere with the implementation of our diktats is hereby suspended.  We are also the sole sources of truth and we therefore allow no challenges to that which we decree to be true."

Sounds like a dictatorship to me.

Not to me I'd have a party at home if I wanted too. 

What part of elected comes under dictatorship. 

[Lacessit]

We have become conditioned to politicians lying to us. We are now accustomed to a media that perverts truth for its own purposes. Inconvenient facts are ignored.

 

Google "Ted Mack". An Australian politician, last of the honorable men.

 

The pandemic has exposed the flaws of unbridled capitalism. The social contract that existed between democratic governments and voters no longer is functional, the sole purpose of government now is to keep capitalism working. That's hard to do if half your workforce is off sick.

 

It's no accident that the only people who are substantially benefiting from the pandemic are the billionaires.