Policy change to Non Imm O-A (Long stay) ‘retirement visa’ allows foreigners to self insure

[worrab]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Indeed that is the main point but with go fund stuff and people not being able to pay there will be resistance in letting insurance go. You read from time to time foreigners not being able to pay and I can see how that irks Thais and Thai hospitals. Its the fault of those guys skipping out on bills that we are in this mess.  (people might say its not but im sure it is) 

 

I think your spot on with your remark. 

I still cannot understand how people can just skip out from paying their bills. Back in 2014 I contracted diverticulitis when holidaying in Chiang Mai before I retired here permanently. I had travel insurance and had to keep giving my GF at the time by bankcard to keep paying the bills. Then claim the money back when back in the UK. No money would probably landed up killing me as I had to go back in for an amionic leak 3 or 4 days later. There was no way treatment was going to happen without paying. The same when I went in for a hernia operation at Prachuap. You could just not skip out without paying the bills. So how does this happen and is it always the fault of the farang??

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

if in wife's name or company name, it's not officially yours, so it's worth nada.

If you bought a home  with your wife, and it's in your wife's name it's half yours. 

 

If you own a company in your name, it's yours. 

[Doctor Tom]

4 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

How do you value houses that officially are in your wife's name, or in a company name

The documentation on how much they sold at ( were bought at)  is held in the Land Office, or with the lawyers who handled the transaction. 

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, worrab said:

I still cannot understand how people can just skip out from paying their bills.

Really? 

 

1 minute ago, worrab said:

Back in 2014 I contracted diverticulitis when holidaying in Chiang Mai before I retired here permanently. I had travel insurance and had to keep giving my GF at the time by bankcard to keep paying the bills. Then claim the money back when back in the UK. No money would probably landed up killing me as I had to go back in for an amionic leak 3 or 4 days later. There was no way treatment was going to happen without paying. The same when I went in for a hernia operation at Prachuap. You could just not skip out without paying the bills. So how does this happen and is it always the fault of the farang??

I think it safe to say it's only the "fault of the farang" when it's the "farang" skipping out. 

 

 

[Swiss1960]

5 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

As for another thing, they will probably not want to have the assets bound up in a house, as the money need to be ready and available. And, after that go on with shares in companies. What guarantee of value is that. The company can be gone tomorrow. The stock exchange can limit or stop trades with certain assets. That value has no guarantee at all. I am pretty sure you will try to tell us that your crypto wallet should be called an asset. ????????????????

That is exactly what I am talking about... how do they value my assets... and yes, a crypto wallet IS an asset, at least according to the tax authorities who have no whatsoever problem to assign a value to every single asset I have... the question is, does immigration do the same or not. 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

Another one who knows nothing... if a house is in your wife's name, it is yours 50% during divorce (if bought while married) and 100% if the wife dies and there is no will saying otherwise... same with land in my wife's name... the only restriction is then, that I have to sell it within a years time. 

 

So much for nada, you ignorant

These guys typically know a lot, certainly more than you or I know, it's just that "...what they know just isn't so." 

[worrab]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think it safe to say it's only the "fault of the farang" when it's the "farang" skipping out. 

 

 

Yes, but how?? And is it all Westerners skipping out? 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by worrab
add

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, worrab said:

I still cannot understand how people can just skip out from paying their bills. Back in 2014 I contracted diverticulitis when holidaying in Chiang Mai before I retired here permanently. I had travel insurance and had to keep giving my GF at the time by bankcard to keep paying the bills. Then claim the money back when back in the UK. No money would probably landed up killing me as I had to go back in for an amionic leak 3 or 4 days later. There was no way treatment was going to happen without paying. The same when I went in for a hernia operation at Prachuap. You could just not skip out without paying the bills. So how does this happen and is it always the fault of the farang??

Obviously some people seem to be able to do this and others like you don't. I guess it depends a bit on the hospital. 

 

Maybe some hospitals care more about helping the patient then holding them hostage right away. Just like that foreigner that got cut with a scythe. Im pretty sure they were not asking for money before. Now he is doing a go fund me page to get money. 

 

I would say its always the mistake of the farang as he or she is not insured and still got helped in the hospital. Just imagine the anger and indignation on this site if a hospital refused treatment and someone died. Also hospitals have to help people i think they can't just refuse you if the situation is serious.

 

[Noah K]

5 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

That is quite an interesting development. However, the main question now is, how do foreigners show that they have 3 million in assets? From the article:

"documents demonstrating properties, bank deposit, health insurance or others whose coverage shall not less than 3 million THB in total in accordance with the criteria prescribed by the Immigration Bureau."

How do you value houses that officially are in your wife's name, or in a company name, or where you have leases? I am lucky to have health insurance, but nevertheless, the issue is interesting for me too.

I want to reply to you because 1. It's a good question and 2. I did something that a lot of people think they cannot do. It is true, a foreigner cannot purchase land in his name. But, and I did this: I saw an attorney here in CM that handles mostly real estate. My girlfriend (we will get married eventually) and I wanted to buy land, and while I can't buy it, I was able to add my name to the title deed. The attorney drew up a usurp agreement, a contract agreement, and a Last Will and Testament. I pulled the building permits in my name, I hired a contractor, and after the house was completed, I  applied for a yellow book, which is the Thai equivalent of their blue book. This should be more that enough proof of assets. I  will also apply for a pink ID card, and next year, I am going to apply for permanent residence status (good for 10 years). It sounds like a lot of work, but I'm retired, so what else do I have to do? I hope this helps.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Noah K

[tonray]

1 minute ago, Noah K said:

I want to reply to you because 1. It's a good question and 2. I did something that a lot of people think they cannot do. It is true, a foreigner cannot purchase land in his name. But, and I did this: I saw an attorney here in CM that handles mostly real estate. My girlfriend (we will get married eventually) and I wanted to buy land, and while I can't buy it, I was able to add my name to the title deed. The attorney drew up a usurp agreement, a contract agreement and Last Will and Testament. I pulled building permits in my name, I hired a contractor, and after the house was completed, I  applied for a yellow book, which is the Thai equivalent of their blue book. This should be more that enough proof of assets. I  will also apply for a pink ID card, and next year, I am going to apply for permanent residence status (good for 10 years). It sounds like a lot of work, but I'm retired, so what else do I have to do? I hope this helps.

Don't you have to be working and paying tax to apply for PR status ? How can you do this when retired ?

[TigerandDog]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Except that the thread is not about getting an extension of stay, it's about getting a visa. Did you read the article? 

yes I read the article, and what is the next step to be taken when the visa and your permitted to stay date expires? You have to either get an extension of stay or leave.  Therefore, the big picture needs to be considered not just the narrow minded approach you appear to be taking.

[Swiss1960]

5 minutes ago, Noah K said:

I want to reply to you because 1. It's a good question and 2. I did something that a lot of people think they cannot do. It is true, a foreigner cannot purchase land in his name. But, and I did this: I saw an attorney here in CM that handles mostly real estate. My girlfriend (we will get married eventually) and I wanted to buy land, and while I can't buy it, I was able to add my name to the title deed. The attorney drew up a usurp agreement, a contract agreement and Last Will and Testament. I pulled building permits in my name, I hired a contractor, and after the house was completed, I  applied for a yellow book, which is the Thai equivalent of their blue book. This should be more that enough proof of assets. I  will also apply for a pink ID card, and next year, I am going to apply for permanent residence status (good for 10 years). It sounds like a lot of work, but I'm retired, so what else do I have to do? I hope this helps.

thanks for sharing. Can I ask, which residency category you will apply in?

[FalangKino]

Why is it that everytime they relax the laws about one thing, they add like 10 new restrictions here.

[StevieAus]

3 hours ago, Iknow said:

Looks like a few retirees won’t be returning to Thailand due to these regulations, often the Baht 800,000 deposit requirement was a struggle to meet !

I think there will be some who certainly will not be be leaving Thailand, as I understand in order to obtain the Travel Pass to return you have to have Health Insurance Cover of Baht 1.5m.

I know of three retirees who have tried to obtain Health Insurance cover and were denied due to age/ existing conditions

[Yellowtail]

33 minutes ago, worrab said:

Yes, but how?? And is it all Westerners skipping out? 

 

No, not all westerners are skipping out, I know I always pay my bills, don't you?

 

But (I think) Thais all get treated at government hospitals under the thirty-Baht scheme, so if they show up at Bumrungrad they just get transferred. 

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, tomazbodner said:

if in wife's name or company name, it's not officially yours, so it's worth nada.

The guy would own half the company, (and be the controlling director of the whole company). Whatever the company owns, he owns.

[Whale]

Why make another complex work around which will create issues further down the line why not just revise the whole O-A/O application and extension of stay requirements to make it simple for retirees?

Why does an O-A need a Doctors certificate to say they don't have elephantiasis, Syphilis or TB and an O does not?

They just keep making options and adjustments rather than sort it out proper, once and for all. Their market is not rich people its those with just enough to live a comfortable final x years with sun and a cheaper way of life.

[SunsetT]

Surely this is only a problem for very elderly retirees with an existing OA in Thailand wishing to visit their own country on a re-entry permit and  then unable to obtain the insurance to return. If insurance is a problem due to age and expense then they could re-enter on visa exempt with 31 day insurance cover which should be easier and much less expensive to obtain They can then apply for a new O retirement visa once in Thailand which has no insurance requirement whatsoever nor when extended. Who in their right mind would apply for a new OA retirement visa when the 90 day O retirement visa is available in most countries I believe and can be extended with no insurance requirement?!? If not they can enter as above.

[Yellowtail]

15 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

yes I read the article, and what is the next step to be taken when the visa and your permitted to stay date expires? You have to either get an extension of stay or leave.  Therefore, the big picture needs to be considered not just the narrow minded approach you appear to be taking.

Would you not just continue to get your extension the same way you have been getting it? 

 

What if you get hit by lighting at the very moment you were going to transfer the money for your insurance? And then, what if on the way to the hospital a pickpocket steals your wallet and you are unable to pay? And then, what if when you try to call your brother to transfer funds you find the your phone's battery is dead? And then, what if after you get the phone charged you find out you have no more minutes on your plan? And then what it what if what if....

 

What if everyone is financially responsible and held accountable for their actions?

 

What if people that can't afford to travel just stay home?

 

 

[Road Warrior]

do i understand correctly !! if one has 3million bht in thai bank NO ISURANCE IS NOW REQUIRED /??

[David T Pike]

4 hours ago, Oxx said:

Unless they've changed the rules, Amex requires that you pay the money back.

Yes! Depending on the card you may have to pay it off in full every month!!! That includes the Platinum, Gold and Green AMX Card! ????

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, Swiss1960 said:

Another one who knows nothing... if a house is in your wife's name, it is yours 50% during divorce (if bought while married) and 100% if the wife dies and there is no will saying otherwise... same with land in my wife's name... the only restriction is then, that I have to sell it within a years time. 

 

So much for nada, you ignorant

OK, prove that to immigration as a proof of assets for self-insurance. Please take video. I'd like to see your arguments.

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

If you bought a home  with your wife, and it's in your wife's name it's half yours. 

 

If you own a company in your name, it's yours. 

That I obviously understand, but was responding to poster, with bolded text highlighting the point, where he was asking how do you prove to immigration that you meet requirements of 3 million baht assets to be allowed to self-insure.

 

How can you own Thai company when foreigners can only be legally 49% owners, and 51% must be owned by Thais?

How can you claim full ownership of a house that is 50% owned (and on paper probably fully owned) by a Thai wife? And yes, I know that foreigner can own house but not land under it.

 

But would any of these be enough for owner to prove having 3 million+ THB in assets? What does the value of assets then need to be to prove it? If you're 50% owner of house, does house then need to be worth over 6 million THB? Does immigration even entertain you in such a case or demand you get insurance?

 

I'd dare to bet it would be the latter.

[Swiss1960]

3 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

OK, prove that to immigration as a proof of assets for self-insurance. Please take video. I'd like to see your arguments.

Your statement was "if in wife's name or company name, it's not officially yours, so it's worth nada.", and that statement, as written by you, is blatantly wrong! Don't try to sneak out of the mess you made with your own words. 
As I wrote many times, clarifications will be needed by the immigration authorities and as I also mentioned, I do have health insurance, so at this time, I will not need to use any arguments about asset calculation towards immigration.

 

Your statement is wrong, will be wrong tomorrow, and probably long way down the road... you can try to wriggle out, but it won't work. 

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, JUARNETTE said:

3 hours ago, PeachCH said:

Still the easiest way and no financial obligations, except the agent fee????

Is this available to all without great expense or ineffective/poor financial planning?

Its for people with "bad"  financial planning or don't want the hassle.

 

15,000 - 20,000 baht to get started.

 

You'll need to contact an agent.  Plenty around.

[tandor]

...why are Non Immigrant 'O' visa holders not required to show proof of health insurance?

[prakhonchai nick]

3 hours ago, CM Dad said:

If medical insurance is required then it should be available without age limits and pre-existing conditions need to be dealt with equitably.  

so the fit subsidise the unhealthy???????.  One must plan when coming to Thailand, and if the funds or insurance are not there to look after yourself, then stay home

[kennw]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think they don't care if we're insured, as long a they don't have to pay for us. 

Could the fact that some Thai insurance companies are now renegging on their health policies have something to do with the IO change

[SunsetT]

49 minutes ago, Whale said:

Why make another complex work around which will create issues further down the line why not just revise the whole O-A/O application and extension of stay requirements to make it simple for retirees?

Why does an O-A need a Doctors certificate to say they don't have elephantiasis, Syphilis or TB and an O does not?

They just keep making options and adjustments rather than sort it out proper, once and for all. Their market is not rich people its those with just enough to live a comfortable final x years with sun and a cheaper way of life.

Jobs for the IO boys! They have to justify their existence and have means to demonstrate the megalomania invested in the uniform they wear and the position they probably purchased!

Edited February 1, 2022 by SunsetT

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, tandor said:

...why are Non Immigrant 'O' visa holders not required to show proof of health insurance?

Non O visa can be for various reasons, OA visa is only for retire.

The idea is retirees have insurance.