Working past 65 / retirement age in Australia

[Kenny202]

Recently known of a few people gone back to Australia to work, with large companies....one guy 70yo this year. I always thought a large company couldn't employ you after retirement age due to workers comp, insurance, health regulations etc. I mean I imagine it would be very difficult getting a job at even 60yo unless you had special skills but can someone older than retirement age legally work for a proper company legitimately? 

[ezzra]

Right now Australia has an acute shortage of working people following the Covid that many either left Australia or working from home still, so much so that the government is offering to pay a reward and easy visa for outsiders to come to Australia to work, so no wonder why old people are now accepted for work...

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Recently known of a few people gone back to Australia to work, with large companies....one guy 70yo this year

Why?...

At 70 you would work due to lack of money or boredom.

Sad reasons on both fronts

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Can you imagine the uproar in Australia if they said those of a certain age cannot work.. Bunnings Hardware stores famously hire a lot of older guys who are handy with  their tools 

[Kenny202]

5 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Can you imagine the uproar in Australia if they said those of a certain age cannot work.. Bunnings Hardware stores famously hire a lot of older guys who are handy with  their tools 

I knew there were a lot of pension aged guys working at Bunnings but not sure what arrangement they have them on. Sub contracting or something to get around legalities / liabilities? not sure

[Kenny202]

17 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Why?...

At 70 you would work due to lack of money or boredom.

Sad reasons on both fronts

I don't know what your comment is supposed to add to the thread.... but since you ask in 2 counts because the wife, unbeknownst to the husband gambled their life and home away

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

. but since you ask in 2 counts because the wife, unbeknownst to the husband gambled their life and home away

As the saying goes, a fool and his money are soon parted

[Fat is a type of crazy]

10 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I knew there were a lot of pension aged guys working at Bunnings but not sure what arrangement they have them on. Sub contracting or something to get around legalities / liabilities? not sure

I think they would be normal employees. You can't hire someone as a subcontractor if the person does the  same thing each day with the same business. There's a tool you can use called employee versus contractor on the ATO site that can tell you if you can be a contractor. I have a friend where the payer wants to pay him as a contractor tradesman but can't as all jobs are for him and the boss wears the risk. 

Not sure there is that much risk for the employer. If they get sick due to elderly issues they can only use their sick leave unless it's deemed to be a workplace injury I think. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Olmate]

27 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Why?...

At 70 you would work due to lack of money or boredom.

Sad reasons on both fronts

Stupid response from you.Both are very valid reasons to continue or return to the workplace.

[DrJack54]

12 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Stupid response from you.Both are very valid reasons to continue or return to the workplace.

Not in my book.

The OP stated that .....

 

"..unbeknownst to the husband gambled their life and home away".

 

Indicates Alzheimer's disease or just plain foolish. 

[Kenny202]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Not in my book.

The OP stated that .....

 

"..unbeknownst to the husband gambled their life and home away".

 

Indicates Alzheimer's disease or just plain foolish. 

Well I dont know what percentage of guys here have built homes with their wives or girlfriends, thinking they were set for life. And of course they can't own the land or home on it. But I would say at least 60% of the guys I know are in that position. Some of them will be ok, some will live in misery but toe the line as their wife / gf is now fully in control of their life. And some will lose everything. In the cases I mentioned they were all reasonable relationships....man and woman around the same age. Woman from a decent background. Can happen to anyone in that situation, and often does here....

 

Anyway, not the purpose of the thread. Prefer to stay on the subject if we can

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

can someone older than retirement age legally work for a proper company legitimately? 

Yes.

[KhunHeineken]

There are laws against discriminating against age in the work place, so if a company wants to hire you, they can, no matter how old you are. 

[KhunHeineken]

21 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Well I dont know what percentage of guys here have built homes with their wives or girlfriends, thinking they were set for life. And of course they can't own the land or home on it. But I would say at least 60% of the guys I know are in that position. Some of them will be ok, some will live in misery but toe the line as their wife / gf is now fully in control of their life. And some will lose everything. In the cases I mentioned they were all reasonable relationships....man and woman around the same age. Woman from a decent background. Can happen to anyone in that situation, and often does here....

 

Anyway, not the purpose of the thread. Prefer to stay on the subject if we can

It doesn't make for a nice retirement, but there are none so deaf as those who refuse to listen.

 

One thing a lot of these guys don't contemplate is the possibility of their Thai wife passing away before they do.  The Thai wife is usually considerably younger, but things like motorbike accidents, cancer etc do happen.  

 

Should the Thai wife pass early, most of these foreigners will lose access to the property that they paid to have built.  

 

How many guys have to back to their country to go back to work, or to go on welfare because "my girl is different?"  

[Kenny202]

12 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

It doesn't make for a nice retirement, but there are none so deaf as those who refuse to listen.

 

One thing a lot of these guys don't contemplate is the possibility of their Thai wife passing away before they do.  The Thai wife is usually considerably younger, but things like motorbike accidents, cancer etc do happen.  

 

Should the Thai wife pass early, most of these foreigners will lose access to the property that they paid to have built.  

 

How many guys have to back to their country to go back to work, or to go on welfare because "my girl is different?"  

We all know it and we've all seen it repeated ad nauseum and many of us are or have been in the same boat. A bit too simple just to look at some of the misfortunates and say he had it coming, and undoubtedly some of them do. Buy there are many living in this situation and only by the good grace of god it continues. In some cases I seen the woman wasn't even particularly bad in anyway, just stupid / naive and got sucked in / conned gambling. Another downside to partnering up with someone with a 6th grade education and no life experience

[HAPPYNUFF]

The Equal Opportunities Act  , amongst other  statements, prohibits  any discrimination  based on age.  If a person  reaches retirement age and  decides to  keep working,  their employer would need to find a damn good reason, outside that Act, to get rid of them.    This is one reason  a number of companies , when taking on a new employee,  now places them on contract. A  contract, at its   previously stated  expiration date, need not be renewed, should the  employer not wish to do so, bye bye employee, no   reason  for non renewal of the contract need be given.         I used to wonder why I started see so many small.,  or elderly,    (  in    modern day":correct" langauge,,    vertically challenged  or   senior persons)) police officers around in my country, till   this Act of Parliament was  pointed out to me    

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/14/2022 at 1:02 PM, Kenny202 said:

We all know it and we've all seen it repeated ad nauseum and many of us are or have been in the same boat. A bit too simple just to look at some of the misfortunates and say he had it coming, and undoubtedly some of them do. Buy there are many living in this situation and only by the good grace of god it continues. In some cases I seen the woman wasn't even particularly bad in anyway, just stupid / naive and got sucked in / conned gambling. Another downside to partnering up with someone with a 6th grade education and no life experience

 

I call it, "The redistribution of wealth."  

 

For a lot of these guys, they go from having assets and cash based in their home country, setting up a decent retirement, and leaving an inheritance for their biological children upon their demise, to liquidating their assets, with the cash being distributed in Issan, for the benefit of an extended Thai family.  

 

It's their money to do with as they please, but in most cases, these guys leave no legacy to their children upon their demise.  Many will tell you their children don't care about them, but the reality is, they burnt all their bridges, including family ties, back in their home country.  From my observation, the extended Thai family don't show a great deal of respect to these guys anyway.  

 

I laugh at how many bought farms in Issan, with zero knowledge or experience in farming.  When I ask what are they growing, and how is the price of it per kilo going, they just have a blank look on their face. They have no interest in the farm.  Many of these guys drink to excess everyday out of boredom. 

 

All of this would be fine, if the foreigner was very wealthy and the farm was employment for the Thai family, and if their marriage went south he could start again, but that's not usually the case.  Many plough their life savings into a farm, new house, and a new car in Issan, thinking they are now set up for retirement, but all they have really done is dug a hole for themselves.

 

Many will tell you, or post on this forum, they are happy in Issan, and a small percentage would be, but how many ever aspired to live in rural Thailand in their later years when they first discovered Thailand, I would say very few. 

 

Many survived messy divorces, but they won't climb out of the hole they dug for themselves in Thailand so easily.  This is because at their age, they can not work and recover from the financial loss, like they did after their divorce.   

 

I spent a few weeks in a larger town in Issan some years ago.  There was a large bar in the town and every Saturday it would fill up with foreigners coming in from all the outlaying villages and they would drink and catch up.  I asked a few what was the attraction, and the reply was that it was the one day of the week they got to speak proper English with fellow native English speakers. 

 

Imagine working all your life to be in a position, where in retirement, the highlight of your week is being able to speak English to other people.  ????    

[Kenny202]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:35 AM, KhunHeineken said:

 

I call it, "The redistribution of wealth."  

 

For a lot of these guys, they go from having assets and cash based in their home country, setting up a decent retirement, and leaving an inheritance for their biological children upon their demise, to liquidating their assets, with the cash being distributed in Issan, for the benefit of an extended Thai family.  

 

It's their money to do with as they please, but in most cases, these guys leave no legacy to their children upon their demise.  Many will tell you their children don't care about them, but the reality is, they burnt all their bridges, including family ties, back in their home country.  From my observation, the extended Thai family don't show a great deal of respect to these guys anyway.  

 

I laugh at how many bought farms in Issan, with zero knowledge or experience in farming.  When I ask what are they growing, and how is the price of it per kilo going, they just have a blank look on their face. They have no interest in the farm.  Many of these guys drink to excess everyday out of boredom. 

 

All of this would be fine, if the foreigner was very wealthy and the farm was employment for the Thai family, and if their marriage went south he could start again, but that's not usually the case.  Many plough their life savings into a farm, new house, and a new car in Issan, thinking they are now set up for retirement, but all they have really done is dug a hole for themselves.

 

Many will tell you, or post on this forum, they are happy in Issan, and a small percentage would be, but how many ever aspired to live in rural Thailand in their later years when they first discovered Thailand, I would say very few. 

 

Many survived messy divorces, but they won't climb out of the hole they dug for themselves in Thailand so easily.  This is because at their age, they can not work and recover from the financial loss, like they did after their divorce.   

 

I spent a few weeks in a larger town in Issan some years ago.  There was a large bar in the town and every Saturday it would fill up with foreigners coming in from all the outlaying villages and they would drink and catch up.  I asked a few what was the attraction, and the reply was that it was the one day of the week they got to speak proper English with fellow native English speakers. 

 

Imagine working all your life to be in a position, where in retirement, the highlight of your week is being able to speak English to other people.  ????    

Hard to argue with much of that and seen it repeated so many times. Not to say there aren't successful relationships here but I haven't seen too many. The guys that do say they are happy and met an angel have often been well and truly been outflanked, have realized they are living on their wife's good graces, in her home and in borrowed time and hoping for the best. They can't just put their foot down or extracate themself from the situation because they have probably invested everything they had in setting up what they thought was going to be an easy and hassle free retirement living on the pension in a nice home, new car....unfortunately all in the wifes name. More importantly she realizes it. Even if she is a decent woman she might have a gambling problem and vulnerable to a set up from the local loan sharks. I do pity these guys though as many aren't stupid or foolish, just weren't prepared for the level of deceipt and lies that can confront you. I met a guy only the other day where things had gone south with him and his Mrs. He's moved out for a couple fo weeks to teach her a lesson lol, telling me he was convinced the house was his as he still has receipts for the building materials lol. 

[scorecard]

On 2/14/2022 at 8:43 AM, KhunHeineken said:

It doesn't make for a nice retirement, but there are none so deaf as those who refuse to listen.

 

One thing a lot of these guys don't contemplate is the possibility of their Thai wife passing away before they do.  The Thai wife is usually considerably younger, but things like motorbike accidents, cancer etc do happen.  

 

Should the Thai wife pass early, most of these foreigners will lose access to the property that they paid to have built.  

 

How many guys have to back to their country to go back to work, or to go on welfare because "my girl is different?"  

FROM ABOVE:  "Should the Thai wife pass early, most of these foreigners will lose access to the property that they paid to have built."

 

This is a general well repeated assumptiion which is not necessarily true. The farang can become the owner but the court will issue  a court order that the farang must sell the house and land within 12 months.

 

The house and land could also be bequethed to a Thai son or daughter or other relative (or non relative).

 

Further: yes true a farang can't own land, but can be the owner of the house, if there's a proper contract to built the house and the farang is stated as the person hiring a Thai company/contractor to build the house the the farang is recognized as the owner of the hosue. Sounds strange that the land and house are owned by different people but in Thailand it can be.

Edited March 5, 2022 by scorecard

[scorecard]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:35 AM, KhunHeineken said:

 

I call it, "The redistribution of wealth."  

 

For a lot of these guys, they go from having assets and cash based in their home country, setting up a decent retirement, and leaving an inheritance for their biological children upon their demise, to liquidating their assets, with the cash being distributed in Issan, for the benefit of an extended Thai family.  

 

It's their money to do with as they please, but in most cases, these guys leave no legacy to their children upon their demise.  Many will tell you their children don't care about them, but the reality is, they burnt all their bridges, including family ties, back in their home country.  From my observation, the extended Thai family don't show a great deal of respect to these guys anyway.  

 

I laugh at how many bought farms in Issan, with zero knowledge or experience in farming.  When I ask what are they growing, and how is the price of it per kilo going, they just have a blank look on their face. They have no interest in the farm.  Many of these guys drink to excess everyday out of boredom. 

 

All of this would be fine, if the foreigner was very wealthy and the farm was employment for the Thai family, and if their marriage went south he could start again, but that's not usually the case.  Many plough their life savings into a farm, new house, and a new car in Issan, thinking they are now set up for retirement, but all they have really done is dug a hole for themselves.

 

Many will tell you, or post on this forum, they are happy in Issan, and a small percentage would be, but how many ever aspired to live in rural Thailand in their later years when they first discovered Thailand, I would say very few. 

 

Many survived messy divorces, but they won't climb out of the hole they dug for themselves in Thailand so easily.  This is because at their age, they can not work and recover from the financial loss, like they did after their divorce.   

 

I spent a few weeks in a larger town in Issan some years ago.  There was a large bar in the town and every Saturday it would fill up with foreigners coming in from all the outlaying villages and they would drink and catch up.  I asked a few what was the attraction, and the reply was that it was the one day of the week they got to speak proper English with fellow native English speakers. 

 

Imagine working all your life to be in a position, where in retirement, the highlight of your week is being able to speak English to other people.  ????    

If the farang is living in a Thai location where there's few people can speak English and the farang cannot speak Thai then that's a choice / a problem freely made by that farang. 

 

Grin and accept it or learn to speak some Thai.

Edited March 5, 2022 by scorecard

[cobra]

On 2/12/2022 at 6:09 PM, DrJack54 said:

Why?...

At 70 you would work due to lack of money or boredom.

Sad reasons on both fronts

Populations in first world countries are living longer,

70 has been the the new 60 for a while, now it could be considered the new 50.

 

There are valid reasons one would wish to continue working,

maybe they enjoy what they do, maybe money isn't an issue.

 

Health issues aside, reaching a certain age should not dictate you're done.

I do understand the bane of a soulless 8 to 5 existence, consigned to do your time until retirement.

 

For others it may be a joy to feel useful or to provide a needed skill in whatever capacity.

At the end of the day each to their own.

 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

On 2/16/2022 at 4:35 PM, KhunHeineken said:

 

I call it, "The redistribution of wealth."  

 

For a lot of these guys, they go from having assets and cash based in their home country, setting up a decent retirement, and leaving an inheritance for their biological children upon their demise, to liquidating their assets, with the cash being distributed in Issan, for the benefit of an extended Thai family.  

 

It's their money to do with as they please, but in most cases, these guys leave no legacy to their children upon their demise.  Many will tell you their children don't care about them, but the reality is, they burnt all their bridges, including family ties, back in their home country.  From my observation, the extended Thai family don't show a great deal of respect to these guys anyway.  

 

I laugh at how many bought farms in Issan, with zero knowledge or experience in farming.  When I ask what are they growing, and how is the price of it per kilo going, they just have a blank look on their face. They have no interest in the farm.  Many of these guys drink to excess everyday out of boredom. 

 

All of this would be fine, if the foreigner was very wealthy and the farm was employment for the Thai family, and if their marriage went south he could start again, but that's not usually the case.  Many plough their life savings into a farm, new house, and a new car in Issan, thinking they are now set up for retirement, but all they have really done is dug a hole for themselves.

 

Many will tell you, or post on this forum, they are happy in Issan, and a small percentage would be, but how many ever aspired to live in rural Thailand in their later years when they first discovered Thailand, I would say very few. 

 

Many survived messy divorces, but they won't climb out of the hole they dug for themselves in Thailand so easily.  This is because at their age, they can not work and recover from the financial loss, like they did after their divorce.   

 

I spent a few weeks in a larger town in Issan some years ago.  There was a large bar in the town and every Saturday it would fill up with foreigners coming in from all the outlaying villages and they would drink and catch up.  I asked a few what was the attraction, and the reply was that it was the one day of the week they got to speak proper English with fellow native English speakers. 

 

Imagine working all your life to be in a position, where in retirement, the highlight of your week is being able to speak English to other people.  ????    

The Isaan hustle. Been there done that, the only bright side was my 4 month work contract paid for land and house. I was still working overseas but I would sit there watching cows being herded back home in the evenings thinking to myself, I worked too hard all my life to settle for this in my retirement. So, packed a few things and moved with old lady and kid 600 km south, left the house for her family. But as you said, many aren't so lucky.

[KhunHeineken]

On 2/18/2022 at 10:25 PM, Kenny202 said:

Hard to argue with much of that and seen it repeated so many times. Not to say there aren't successful relationships here but I haven't seen too many. The guys that do say they are happy and met an angel have often been well and truly been outflanked, have realized they are living on their wife's good graces, in her home and in borrowed time and hoping for the best. They can't just put their foot down or extracate themself from the situation because they have probably invested everything they had in setting up what they thought was going to be an easy and hassle free retirement living on the pension in a nice home, new car....unfortunately all in the wifes name. More importantly she realizes it. Even if she is a decent woman she might have a gambling problem and vulnerable to a set up from the local loan sharks. I do pity these guys though as many aren't stupid or foolish, just weren't prepared for the level of deceipt and lies that can confront you. I met a guy only the other day where things had gone south with him and his Mrs. He's moved out for a couple fo weeks to teach her a lesson lol, telling me he was convinced the house was his as he still has receipts for the building materials lol. 

There are a lot of toxic relationships / marriages based solely on the exchange of money here.  I have no problem with that.  There are many western women in "kept relationships / marriages" as well. 

 

If one enters into a financial agreement with a Thai lady, that's fine, but they should pay as they go, not buy land, build a house, throw in a bar, shop, or farm, all up front, and expect the Thai lady to then uphold her end of the deal, especially when it's all in her name.  

 

Often, when the Thai lady accepts the financial agreement, and thinks now she got the guy on the hook and start to go to work on him, she can manipulate that agreement and he will bend.  As you say, guys don't put their foot down.  I suppose it's guys feeling comfortable in the relationship and are too afraid to start again, so, they bend, and it's all downhill from there.  So funny to hear the threat, "I'll have to go back and work bar again."  I'd be saying, "See ya."  ????  A lot of guys don't call their bluff, and even if they were serious and did go back to the bar, what's that say about the relationship or financial agreement you entered into?   Neither were real in the first place.  

 

Foreigners can't own land here, but there's some ways to cover yourself.  One way is to have the Thai lady take a mortgage out on a property and you pay the bank every month.  Paying the loan interest can be looked upon as insurance.  The money in your own bank earns some interest, so it's only the difference you are paying.  She leaves, you stop paying the mortgage, the bank can have the house back, and both can move on.   

 

The guy you met is correct.  It's his house, just not the land it sits on.  It's my understanding he would be perfectly entitled to put a bulldozer through it and face no criminal charges.  

 

Another phenomenon that you see in these relationships if when the Thai lady starts to compare the money, assets, or wealth of one of their friends or family's foreign partners.  The Thai scammer version of "keeping up with the Jones" and what does the foreigner do, he goes and buys a bigger car, or more expensive gold, or more land etc.  The two Thai ladies play the foreigners off on each other for spending on them, because each foreigner doesn't want to be seen as not "taking care" as good as the next guy.  Too funny.  ????  

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/6/2022 at 6:42 AM, scorecard said:

FROM ABOVE:  "Should the Thai wife pass early, most of these foreigners will lose access to the property that they paid to have built."

 

This is a general well repeated assumptiion which is not necessarily true. The farang can become the owner but the court will issue  a court order that the farang must sell the house and land within 12 months.

 

The house and land could also be bequethed to a Thai son or daughter or other relative (or non relative).

 

Further: yes true a farang can't own land, but can be the owner of the house, if there's a proper contract to built the house and the farang is stated as the person hiring a Thai company/contractor to build the house the the farang is recognized as the owner of the hosue. Sounds strange that the land and house are owned by different people but in Thailand it can be.

What part of my post do you see any "assumption" in?

 

In your own words the house must be sold in 12 months, the house can be left to family, and a farang can't own land.

 

Put one, or a combination of these together, and how does a foreigner maintain access, that is, living in the house, that sits on land, that he paid for, should his Thai wife die before him?

 

He has to sell it in 12 months, and he can't own the land it sits on, or, it's left to a Thai son, for example, who gives notice to the foreigner because he wants to live in it himself or sell it and keep the money.

 

How often do you think the foreigner could sell it to the Thai family for 1 baht, and the family allow him to live in it until his demise? 

[KhunHeineken]

On 3/6/2022 at 6:47 AM, scorecard said:

If the farang is living in a Thai location where there's few people can speak English and the farang cannot speak Thai then that's a choice / a problem freely made by that farang. 

 

Grin and accept it or learn to speak some Thai.

As discussed in previous posts, it turns from "choice" to "no choice" because they have ploughed all their life savings into a Thai family, and rural Issan. 

 

In effect, they made a rod for their own back, and they have every day until they die to deal with the consequences of this.  

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

The Isaan hustle. Been there done that, the only bright side was my 4 month work contract paid for land and house. I was still working overseas but I would sit there watching cows being herded back home in the evenings thinking to myself, I worked too hard all my life to settle for this in my retirement. So, packed a few things and moved with old lady and kid 600 km south, left the house for her family. But as you said, many aren't so lucky.

If still working, one could financially recover from The Issan Hustle.  It's the retired guys that have a set amount of money to last them until they pass, or a small pension.  

 

They put a significant portion of it into a Thai family, and into rural Issan, in a country where laws are not favorable to foreigners.   

 

I don't need the bright lights of a city such as Bangkok, but I need more options for leisure time activities in retirement than what Issan can offer.  

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

As discussed in previous posts, it turns from "choice" to "no choice" because they have ploughed all their life savings into a Thai family, and rural Issan. 

 

In effect, they made a rod for their own back, and they have every day until they die to deal with the consequences of this.  

Wow, so many assumptions and automatic negatives.

 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Wow, so many assumptions and automatic negatives.

 

I am not saying every guy in Issan is like this, but there are quite a lot, but talk to them, and like most guys here, they will say they have never been scammed in Thailand or made a wrong decision.  ????  

[KhunHeineken]

Not only retired people re-entering the workforce, but people being forced to work longer.   

 

Biggest jump in the cost of living in 11 years.  

 

 https://www.smh.com.au/money/super-and-retirement/retirees-face-biggest-cost-of-living-hike-in-11-years-20220210-p59vf0.html