USA bank will not allow expat American to have account

[FACTOR]

Recently I was informed by my US bank -- Wells Fargo -- that I can no longer have accounts with them because I do not reside permanently in the USA, in spite of having a permanent address in the USA. Now I need to find another bank, in the USA, which is "expat friendly". Anybody have similar experience and/or know a US bank that will do business with expat Americans?

[hereforgood]

I Bank with US BANK very good and easy online access

[FACTOR]

Thanks. I'll check out US Bank.

So you reside outside of the USA "permanently" and US Bank don't mind that your physical, residential address is in a foreign country? 

[Jingthing]

Many or even most US banks don't want expats if you're honest with them.

 

This has been an issue for many years especially after the Know your customer rules arrived.

 

I suggest opening with SDFCU which will deal with expats at least as a backup.

 

https://www.sdfcu.org/

 

For other accounts I fake it.

US phone number

US address

Logins online showing US not Thailand

 

But now more and more banks are requiring two factor authentification with a US cell phone in your name! Acceptance of voip numbers / google voice on the way out.

This can be a major PITA.

Edited February 16, 2022 by Jingthing

[racyrick]

16 hours ago, FACTOR said:

Thanks. I'll check out US Bank.

So you reside outside of the USA "permanently" and US Bank don't mind that your physical, residential address is in a foreign country? 

I am curious and have 2 questions-

1) You say you have a permanent address in the US but you don't live there permanently-how does the bank know this?

2) Do you also have a US phone number with the bank as well?

 

Thanks

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, racyrick said:

I am curious and have 2 questions-

1) You say you have a permanent address in the US but you don't live there permanently-how does the bank know this?

2) Do you also have a US phone number with the bank as well?

 

Thanks

Not answering your specific question, but can address how banks know (or begin to suspect and then investigate) that a customer is living abroad.

 

EXPAT ADMITTING IT! 

Logging in all the time from abroad

Trying to contact with your U.S. phone number and it not working

See a VOIP US number could raise a red flag

Customer using a mail forwarding service as their main address

Customer unable to do 2FA (no US cell phone in their name)

Mail sent to the US address on record sent back.

Mail sent to the US address requiring response not responded to

Issues with activating a new ATM card

 

Some financial institutions are more aggressive about this than others, but the trend is not good.

 

If you've already moved abroad, opening a new U.S. based account is very difficult and impossible with many firms.

 

Future expats should open many accounts where they move because over time they will lose some (or all) of them.

 

Open a backup expat friendly account at SDFCU

 

There is no perfect answer anyone can give you! This is a moving target. Policies change (generally getting less expat friendly). 

 

The U.S. financial system never promised expats a rose garden. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Jingthing

[khaepmu]

So SDFCH seems to be a valid bank. I had never heard of them. Apparently, no problem having a Thai address. I wonder if I can have my social security check directly deposited with them in the event that my American bank, (I use my brother's address for this bank as he lives permanently in the USA) decides I can no longer keep an account with them. 

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, khaepmu said:

So SDFCH seems to be a valid bank. I had never heard of them. Apparently, no problem having a Thai address. I wonder if I can have my social security check directly deposited with them in the event that my American bank, (I use my brother's address for this bank as he lives permanently in the USA) decides I can no longer keep an account with them. 

It's a credit union. Not a bank. You need to join something initial. Like a consumer organization. I think it cost me 5 or 10 bucks one time. They are somewhat quirky and very security minded but officially accept expats. But you could still be rejected for other reasons. It's easier to open initially with a US address and driver's license and change the record later but you can open with a passport. I use them to direct deposit my social security check so YES on that! Online SWIFT wires are 25 dollars. 

 

Federal Credit Union in DC, VA, & SC | SDFCU

Edited February 17, 2022 by Jingthing

[racyrick]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It's a credit union. Not a bank. You need to join something initial. Like a consumer organization. I think it cost me 5 or 10 bucks one time. They are somewhat quirky and very security minded but officially accept expats. But you could still be rejected for other reasons. It's easier to open initially with a US address and driver's license and change the record later but you can open with a passport. I use them to direct deposit my social security check so YES on that! Online SWIFT wires are 25 dollars. 

 

Federal Credit Union in DC, VA, & SC | SDFCU

Do they use OTP's?

If so, do they send them to a Thai phone number or to your email?

Have you ever used them to send money with WISE?

 

Thanks for your help.

[GrandPapillon]

22 hours ago, FACTOR said:

Anybody have similar experience and/or know a US bank that will do business with expat Americans?

Thanks to the US Patriot Act, every bank account holders outside the US is a possible terrorist, was bound to happen, even for US nationals ????

Edited February 17, 2022 by GrandPapillon

[GrandPapillon]

Try eTrade, they are international friendly

[GrandPapillon]

51 minutes ago, khaepmu said:

So SDFCH seems to be a valid bank. I had never heard of them

they seem to be reserved only for US federal employees working overseas, not open to everyone

[Jingthing]

59 minutes ago, racyrick said:

Do they use OTP's?

If so, do they send them to a Thai phone number or to your email?

Have you ever used them to send money with WISE?

 

Thanks for your help.

I haven't needed OTPs. 

I think they have a program if you choose to do that.

No, I've only done direct SWIFT and it's been very fast.

I did determine that if it's over 10K USD they will probably call you and ask some annoying questions. 

[racyrick]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I haven't needed OTPs. 

I think they have a program if you choose to do that.

No, I've only done direct SWIFT and it's been very fast.

I did determine that if it's over 10K USD they will probably call you and ask some annoying questions. 

Thanks for answering my questions. Just one last question-

When you do a SWIFT transfer to your Thai bank from SDCFU, does it get coded as a foreign transaction (FTT)?

Thanks again

[Jingthing]

56 minutes ago, racyrick said:

Thanks for answering my questions. Just one last question-

When you do a SWIFT transfer to your Thai bank from SDCFU, does it get coded as a foreign transaction (FTT)?

Thanks again

Yes.

[ujong]

I strongly agree with Jingthing, SDFCU is the the best. They are set up to work with oversea DOS employees like embassy staff and AFAIK is the only US FI that has come out and stated explicitly that they will provide accounts for Americans abroad. 

 

I set up an account with them online in 2019 with just my US passport and a proof of address at my foreign residence. However, I did have to spend about 30 minutes on the phone with them to complete the account set up. They sent the debit card by FedEx to my foreign address at no charge. The debit card is good and does reimburse for upper tier accounts, but there are a few hoops (so stick with Schwab for that). Incoming wires are free and outbound wire fees are competitive. Standard ACH is free. 
 

You can become eligible for SDFCU by joining the ACC for free using a promo code. Back when I did it, the promo code was “consumer” but not sure if it’s changed.
 

Some other things I like about SDFCU —

 

You can set up TOD on any account, which makes it easy for my wife or kids to get access to the account if anything should happen to me. 
 

They are part of the co-op shared branch network, which means brick and mortar access in just about any US state or territory. 
 

They have a nice 2% cash back credit card with no foreign transaction fees. I plan to sign up before my next trip back, just charging our flights will be enough to get the sign-up bonus.

[FACTOR]

Thanks, Jingthing, for bringing SDFCU to my attention; never heard of them until now. I've just done a bit of reading about them and American Citizens Abroad, who can serve as the organization sponsor to join SDFCU, and will now go into depth researching and make some decisions.  Thanks for the tip.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, FACTOR said:

Thanks, Jingthing, for bringing SDFCU to my attention; never heard of them until now. I've just done a bit of reading about them and American Citizens Abroad, who can serve as the organization sponsor to join SDFCU, and will now go into depth researching and make some decisions.  Thanks for the tip.

They are a good organization to support but you can get entry into SDFCU much cheaper. I used a US consumer organization. 5 or 10 bucks.

[FACTOR]

ACA is $55 a year for me to join, being over 65 years old.  As you say, they are a good organization to support.

 

On the other hand, I might look into joining via a consumer organization -- where do you find out about those? Boy, I have been off the beaten path for a while! 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

I was able to open an account with Chase in 2018 using my Thai address when I was in the US on a visit.  Chase took a copy of my passport and a copy of a bank statement showing my Thai address. Chase sent my debit card and a box of checks to me here in Bangkok by FedEx. They send me 2FA by sms to my Thai phone number when needed, usually if I make a large purchase with my debit card, but don't routinely require it for website logins.

 

So far, so good.

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, FACTOR said:

ACA is $55 a year for me to join, being over 65 years old.  As you say, they are a good organization to support.

 

On the other hand, I might look into joining via a consumer organization -- where do you find out about those? Boy, I have been off the beaten path for a while! 

Look at the list of qualifying organizations at SDFCU.

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

I was able to open an account with Chase in 2018 using my Thai address when I was in the US on a visit.  Chase took a copy of my passport and a copy of a bank statement showing my Thai address. Chase sent my debit card and a box of checks to me here in Bangkok by FedEx. They send me 2FA by sms to my Thai phone number when needed, usually if I make a large purchase with my debit card, but don't routinely require it for website logins.

 

So far, so good.

Hmmm.

Do you happen to have a very large account with them? 

 

[ujong]

You don’t need to pay a single cent to get SDFCU membership. The ACC (American Consumer Council) is free to join with a promo code. The promo code I used was ‘consumer’ - if that doesn’t work just google for the latest one.

TBH, when you open your account at SDFCU, if you click on ACC they don’t even verify your membership, so you’ll be good either way!

[Pib]

50 minutes ago, FACTOR said:

ACA is $55 a year for me to join, being over 65 years old.  As you say, they are a good organization to support.

 

On the other hand, I might look into joining via a consumer organization -- where do you find out about those? Boy, I have been off the beaten path for a while! 

When I joined SDFCU several years ago I used my Thai address.  And I used American Consumer Council (ACC) membership as a qualifying organization....$8 a year or $15 for lifetime ACC membership....I went with the lifetime membership....and within minutes of joining/paying ACC I received my membership certificate suitable for framing via Email.  I then used that membership doc as one of the docs I used to apply for SDFCU membership.   SDFCU also has a great 2% cash back credit card...I use it almost daily in Thailand.  SDFCU is expat friendly....but everyone's results will vary when applying as everybody has a different set of circumstances in their life/credit history.

 

ACC Membership Joining Page

https://www.americanconsumercouncil.org/membership.asp?dname=Americanconsumercouncil.org

https://www.americanconsumercouncil.org/

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Hmmm.

Do you happen to have a very large account with them? 

 

It is a standard checking account and I opened it with a few thousand dollars. 

 

I was in the US to accompany my daughter to start her freshman year at the university in the town where the Chase branch is located. My daughter opened an account at the same time. I suppose that the bank officer may have assumed a certain level of affluence and opened the account with the hope that I would keep large amounts on deposit or open an investment account, but I made no representations to that effect.

 

 

 

[hereforgood]

On 2/16/2022 at 5:38 PM, FACTOR said:

Thanks. I'll check out US Bank.

So you reside outside of the USA "permanently" and US Bank don't mind that your physical, residential address is in a foreign country? 

I have a US home address of my son that I use in Las Vegas never came up that I live anywhere else. I get all my statements on line now so no mail ever to the US address but would not be a problem if i did  

[ChC1]

Wells Fargo had serious problems few years back before Covid. It is alleged that Wells Fargo branch managers opened lots of bogus accounts using customer's information without informing them. The reason is the bank award branch employee with new account opening, and also have a minimum requirements for new account opening to evaluate bonus etc. They were found out and fined big time.

 

I think that is the reason why they are very stingy in taking out accounts that do not fit in 'normal' pattern. And as a Clean Up requirement by FED, Wells Fargo has to 'act' upon 'advices' to clear out 'accounts with red flags' that is not 'legitimate'.

 

You should have switched bank back in 2016 or earlier to any international bank that has operation in US except HSBC or Wells Fargo (both were in big legislation trouble over accounts). Should you have done so you would not have the trouble you had today. 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, hereforgood said:

I have a US home address of my son that I use in Las Vegas never came up that I live anywhere else. I get all my statements on line now so no mail ever to the US address but would not be a problem if i did  

Yes that sort of tactic is very common. Faking US residence. 

[hereforgood]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes that sort of tactic is very common. Faking US residence. 

And now that I think about it I probably wouldn't have to use a Us address anyway as the account is jointly held by myself and my son who is a US resident

[Sheryl]

I have accounts with Lafayette Federal Credit Union and with USAA. The latter required memebeship which in turn requires that you or a parent or spouse be ex-military.

 

Both are fine with my being abroad, in fact I get my statements at my Thai address.

 

State Dept Federal Credit Union is also used by many.

 

Capital One is also said to be expat-friendly.