Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[tgw]

White House weighing number of considerations on G20 after Putin's attendance confirmed

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-04-29-22/index.html

 

I would advise G20 representatives to pack a healthy reserve of rotten eggs in shock-proof containers and put them to good use .

[Bkk Brian]

17 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

He would lose his family, his girlfriend and her family in that case. Also, most of the Russian Orcs will die in the nuclear winter to follow.

 

 

Head of RT news and Russian lawmakers on state TV don't seem to care about death as a result of a nuclear war, in fact they seem to be priming everyone up to accept it as they, the Russians will go immediately to heaven....., I kid you not.....lol

 

Putin’s puppets have now surrendered to the idea of nuclear apocalypse, because at least they’ll “go to heaven.”

 

Russian state TV is raging about WWIII and an inevitable escalation over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Citizens are being primed to believe that even the worst outcome is a good thing, because those dying for the Motherland will skyrocket to paradise.

 

Disturbing that they are normalizing conversations about having a nuclear war.

[Slip]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Head of RT news and Russian lawmakers on state TV don't seem to care about death as a result of a nuclear war, in fact they seem to be priming everyone up to accept it as they, the Russians will go immediately to heaven....., I kid you not.....lol

 

Putin’s puppets have now surrendered to the idea of nuclear apocalypse, because at least they’ll “go to heaven.”

 

Russian state TV is raging about WWIII and an inevitable escalation over Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Citizens are being primed to believe that even the worst outcome is a good thing, because those dying for the Motherland will skyrocket to paradise.

 

Disturbing that they are normalizing conversations about having a nuclear war.

With the increasing damaging rhetoric from Russia, will the west be pushed to a nuclear strike?  Let's hope not.

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, tgw said:

White House weighing number of considerations on G20 after Putin's attendance confirmed

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-04-29-22/index.html

 

I would advise G20 representatives to pack a healthy reserve of rotten eggs in shock-proof containers and put them to good use .

Thats interesting as Zelensky is also invited:

 

Russia-Ukraine War: Zelensky, Putin Invited to G20

[Chris.B]

43 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Thats interesting as Zelensky is also invited:

 

Russia-Ukraine War: Zelensky, Putin Invited to G20

but it is not being held for another 6-7 months.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Berkshire said:

There was a time when I didn't think NATO would consider sending ground troops in.  I still doubt that would happen on a large scale.  But Russia has exceeded the bounds of decency, even wartime decency.  If it keeps up, I can see NATO sending cruise missiles into Russia targeting military hardware and installations.  Not nukes, but conventional weapons.  If that happens, it would be up to Putin and whether HE decides to escalate beyond Ukraine borders.  Putin may be crazy and cruel, but he's not stupid.  He knows that he's totally outgunned by NATO.  I doubt he'd do anything other than churn out more rhetoric and threats. 

Under what mandate would NATO be able to send cruise missiles into Russia in support of a non NATO country?

If individual countries want to declare war on Russia by attacking actual "in Russia" facilities that's a different scenario.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Slip said:

With the increasing damaging rhetoric from Russia, will the west be pushed to a nuclear strike?  Let's hope not.

The premise of MAD is that if one nuclear armed country carries out a nuclear attack on another nuclear armed country everyone dies.

Surely one doesn't want to see if Russia is actually prepared to retaliate by sending a nuclear tipped missile into Russia?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Chris.B said:

He would lose his family, his girlfriend and her family in that case. Also, most of the Russian Orcs will die in the nuclear winter to follow.

 

 

Err, won't everyone die in the nuclear winter to follow?

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Under what mandate would NATO be able to send cruise missiles into Russia in support of a non NATO country?

If individual countries want to declare war on Russia by attacking actual "in Russia" facilities that's a different scenario.

 

this one

 

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/about-responsibility-to-protect.shtml

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, ozimoron said:

this one

 

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/about-responsibility-to-protect.shtml

Assuming all NATO countries agreed to use that as a reason to carry out an attack on Russian soil, surely that means NATO is at war with Russia, which is probably not a good idea IMO?

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Assuming all NATO countries agreed to use that as a reason to carry out an attack on Russian soil, surely that means NATO is at war with Russia, which is probably not a good idea IMO?

I answered your question.

 

Assuming Russia is a rational player they would surely surrender to avoid massive loss of life? Surely the argument now should be that the Russians are the ones causing further loss of life by not surrendering since they are inevitably going to lose? Wasn't that the argument that the pro Russians were putting up to suggest that Ukraine should surrender when all this started?

Edited April 29, 2022 by ozimoron

[thaibeachlovers]

58 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I answered your question.

 

Assuming Russia is a rational player they would surely surrender to avoid massive loss of life? Surely the argument now should be that the Russians are the ones causing further loss of life by not surrendering since they are inevitably going to lose? Wasn't that the argument that the pro Russians were putting up to suggest that Ukraine should surrender when all this started?

That is not something I could be expected to know, not being in the Russian halls of power.

Do you think that NATO should take a chance on Russia not retaliating in kind if attacked by a foreign power?

 

They may lose a non nuclear war, but at what cost for the rest of the world?

Let's remember that most of the non European and northern American nations have no part in this continuation of the West vs Russia conflict.

 

BTW, if we actually consider that Russia could even be defeated by the West/ NATO, what then? They couldn't run a small country like Iraq after it was defeated, so how could they control a vast country like Russia which stretches from Europe all the way to the Pacific?

Edited April 29, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[Meat Pie 47]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That is not something I could be expected to know, not being in the Russian halls of power.

Do you think that NATO should take a chance on Russia not retaliating in kind if attacked by a foreign power?

 

They may lose a non nuclear war, but at what cost for the rest of the world?

Let's remember that most of the non European and northern American nations have no part in this continuation of the West vs Russia conflict.

 

BTW, if we actually consider that Russia could even be defeated by the West/ NATO, what then? They couldn't run a small country like Iraq after it was defeated, so how could they control a vast country like Russia which stretches from Europe all the way to the Pacific?

Thanks comrade

[tgw]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Err, won't everyone die in the nuclear winter to follow?

that's the scary thing, the smallest nukes have relatively limited radiologic consequences. the smallest nukes, i.e. "mini nukes" have a power of 0.3 Kt, 50 times smaller than Hiroshima.

it would destroy a block.

such a mininuke is not that scary on a European scale, or even on a national scale in Ukraine.

 

the problem is the response and the response to the response.

 

the Russian military has the official doctrine to use mininukes to de-escalate a conflict.

 

I have the feeling that the doctrine was developed by people who had a powerful Russian army in mind, but now such a doctrine looks like another miscalculation.

https://thebulletin.org/2018/09/mini-nukes-still-a-horrible-and-dangerous-idea/

 

the INF treaty has ended, and it was rumored mini-nukes had been developed in Germany in the eighties or nineties for the US with the participation of GKSS Geestracht, even during the ban on mini-nukes, which is why the US wanted it developed by Germany.

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by tgw

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, tgw said:

what if Putin has less than 12 months to live anyway?

 

Because......................................?

Do you have some inside information on Putin's health?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, tgw said:

that's the scary thing, the smallest nukes have relatively limited radiologic consequences. the smallest nukes, i.e. "mini nukes" have a power of 0.3 Kt, 50 times smaller than Hiroshima.

it would destroy a block.

such a mininuke is not that scary on a European scale, or even on a national scale in Ukraine.

 

the problem is the response and the response to the response.

 

the Russian military has the official doctrine to use mininukes to de-escalate a conflict.

 

I have the feeling that the doctrine was developed by people who had a powerful Russian army in mind, but now such a doctrine looks like another miscalculation.

https://thebulletin.org/2018/09/mini-nukes-still-a-horrible-and-dangerous-idea/

 

the INF treaty has ended, and it was rumored mini-nukes had been developed in Germany in the eighties or nineties with the participation of GKSS Geestracht.

 

If I remember correctly, post WW2 the Americans were developing atomic shells that could be fired from large guns for use in a battlefield conflict. To my knowledge they didn't follow through, perhaps because of the risk of escalation to MAD.

[tgw]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If I remember correctly, post WW2 the Americans were developing atomic shells that could be fired from large guns for use in a battlefield conflict. To my knowledge they didn't follow through, perhaps because of the risk of escalation to MAD.

they did, many types of artillery nukes were developed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_artillery

 

[Bkk Brian]

Foreign Secretary @TrussLiz will send a team of war crimes experts to support Ukraine with investigations into Russian atrocities. She is also in the Hague for talks at the @IntlCrimCourt

 

We will hold Putin’s regime to account for its actions.

 

 

[RJRS1301]

11 hours ago, tgw said:

White House weighing number of considerations on G20 after Putin's attendance confirmed

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-04-29-22/index.html

 

I would advise G20 representatives to pack a healthy reserve of rotten eggs in shock-proof containers and put them to good use .

Should he attend in person as opposed to virtually, I think all the other leaders need to steer well clear of him and his security, as they could well be targeted by little poisonous pricks, or some other form of chemical exposures, with no antidotes available.

.

 

[transam]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Foreign Secretary @TrussLiz will send a team of war crimes experts to support Ukraine with investigations into Russian atrocities. She is also in the Hague for talks at the @IntlCrimCourt

 

We will hold Putin’s regime to account for its actions.

 

 

It's started........

 

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/hunt-butchers-bucha-ukraine-issues-153446994.html

[Chris.B]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Err, won't everyone die in the nuclear winter to follow?

Yes, tell the Russians that. They are the ones threatening to go nuclear.

 

[Chris.B]

12 hours ago, Slip said:

With the increasing damaging rhetoric from Russia, will the west be pushed to a nuclear strike?  Let's hope not.

The word you are looking for is "pre-emptive"?

 

[Kwasaki]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Assuming all NATO countries agreed to use that as a reason to carry out an attack on Russian soil, surely that means NATO is at war with Russia, which is probably not a good idea IMO?

It's just words as usual whether anything is done is another thing. 

[rudi49jr]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Foreign Secretary @TrussLiz will send a team of war crimes experts to support Ukraine with investigations into Russian atrocities. She is also in the Hague for talks at the @IntlCrimCourt

 

We will hold Putin’s regime to account for its actions.

 

 

Dozens of Dutch military police are also going to Ukraine to help investigate and document Russian war crimes:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-military-police-help-ukraine-investigate-war-crimes-anp-2022-04-28/

 

[Bkk Brian]

If this happens and what it will mean in terms of escalation is the question. In one sense it would give him legitimate grounds to call in hundreds of thousands of conscripts but without effective military hardware then that's not much help to him? There's already reports of the tanks in storage being unusable and they are already running out of precision missiles. So my guess is more indiscriminate bombing in residential areas all over Ukraine.

 

UK's Wallace says Putin preparing to formally declare Ukraine war in May

 

President Vladimir Putin is preparing to use Victory Day celebrations on May 9 to tell the Russian people he is conducting a war — not a special military operation — in Ukraine, Britain’s defence minister has said.

Ben Wallace said the Russian leader will have no choice but to come clean about the reality on the ground if he needs more conscripts to be pushed to join the fight under a formal declaration of hostilities between the two nations.

 

Russia running short of precision missiles and lacks ability to manufacture enough to meet demand, hampering its efforts to gain territory in eastern Ukraine

 

Russian commander ‘killed himself after learning 90% of his tanks were useless’ The update said: ‘Currently, the enemy RVB is trying to put into operation a significant amount of equipment coming from long-term storage facilities. ‘The condition of this equipment is mostly extremely unsatisfactory, which makes its full use impossible. ‘At present, plans to transfer equipment taken from storage to the front have actually been thwarted.’

[rudi49jr]

32 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Dozens of Dutch military police are also going to Ukraine to help investigate and document Russian war crimes:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-military-police-help-ukraine-investigate-war-crimes-anp-2022-04-28/

 

The Dutch government are probably highly motivated because they still have a bone to pick with Russia, with regards to downing flight MH17 in 2014. It was shot down with a Russian BUK missile, and 193 Dutch citizens were killed, together with 90 people of other nationalities. Russia has always denied any involvement in this, although there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It’s just one more in a long list of crimes that Russia should be held accountable for.

[Chris.B]

28 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

There's already reports of the tanks in storage being unusable and they are already running out of precision missiles.

 

Russian commander ‘killed himself after learning 90% of his tanks were useless’ The update said: ‘Currently, the enemy RVB is trying to put into operation a significant amount of equipment coming from long-term storage facilities. ‘The condition of this equipment is mostly extremely unsatisfactory, which makes its full use impossible. ‘At present, plans to transfer equipment taken from storage to the front have actually been thwarted.’

 

How many tanks does Vlad really have in his imaginary 12,800 tank army? 

 

"According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) The Military Balance, the Russians have 2,800 tanks and 13,000 other armored vehicles (reconnaissance and infantry fighting vehicles) in units with another 10,000 tanks and 8,500 armored vehicles in storage."Apr 12, 2565 BE

 

"A senior U.S. Defense Department official estimated this week that “the Ukrainians have more tanks in Ukraine than the Russians do,” given the huge losses Russian armor have taken as a result of Ukrainian artillery and shoulder-fired anti-armor attacks."5 days ago

 

[Kwasaki]

34 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

The Dutch government are probably highly motivated because they still have a bone to pick with Russia, with regards to downing flight MH17 in 2014. It was shot down with a Russian BUK missile, and 193 Dutch citizens were killed, together with 90 people of other nationalities. Russia has always denied any involvement in this, although there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It’s just one more in a long list of crimes that Russia should be held accountable for.

MH17 err.  Don't forget the Ukrainian person involved or is that not allowed. 

[tgw]

25 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

MH17 err.  Don't forget the Ukrainian person involved or is that not allowed. 

you mean Leonid Kharchenko, a Russian-backed separatist holding Ukrainian citizenship ?
he has committed high treason in 2014.

Edited April 30, 2022 by tgw

[rudi49jr]

44 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

MH17 err.  Don't forget the Ukrainian person involved or is that not allowed. 

Yes, four suspects have so far been indicted: three of them Russian and one Ukrainian. What’s your point?