Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Mavideol]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some have been saying the exact same thing about America being willing to wage its war to the last Ukrainian soldier. “America providing Ukraine with weapons will only prolong the war”

just an update as it appears you are a little behind

Putin's Russia 'has become a fascist state' and must be stopped in Ukraine, says ex-diplomat who defected after the invasion

Warped by its own propaganda'

Fascist states exploit two undeniable themes found in Putin's Russia: a national sense of victimhood and perceived former greatness, both of which are often addressed by way of aggression. Putin's strongest play at home is appealing to nostalgia for a Russian empire.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/putins-russia-become-fascist-state-211231777.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, Rimmer said:

 

 

A "RUSSIA" military aircraft just crashed into a huge residential block.... they kill their own people as it appears the plane was carrying lots of ammunition, I would call it Karma  555

[placeholder]

Here's a link to an at-length and fascinating interview with Fiona Hill, perhaps America's foremost Putinologist:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/10/17/fiona-hill-putin-war-00061894

[BarraMarra]

I'd be waiting for " This is an attack perpetrated by Ukraine "  and a further excuse warranted for further retaliatory strikes on Ukrainian cities. 

[Bkk Brian]

All over twitter, more drone attacks happening now in Kyiv. Time for the west to step up with longer range missile systems, further sanctions against Iran are not enough. How about introducing ATACMS to take out the launch sites?

 

Its obvious Putin has forged a close relationship with Iran. His visit there in July was only his second international visit since the invasion.

 

At the meeting Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Tehran and Moscow should strengthen their ties, and suggested that the West was to blame for the war in Ukraine. "If you did not take the initiative, the other side would have caused the war with its own initiative," Mr Khamenei told Mr Putin.

 

Ukraine war: US says Iranian drones breach sanctions

The US agrees with the French and British assessment that the drones violate UN Security Council Resolution 2231, the US State Department said.

That resolution, linked to Iran's nuclear accord, bars Iranian transfers of certain military technologies.

Ukraine has identified the drones - or unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) - as Iranian Shahed-136 weapons. They are called kamikaze drones after the Japanese fighter pilots who flew suicide missions in World War Two.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63294698

 

strikes against Ukraine are being framed in context of "retaliation" for its strikes in Belgorod, as though poor "tormented" Russia is simply defending itself. State TV host says Russia will spare no missiles or drones in the run-up to US midterms.

 

[plus7]

2 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

Can you explain to us Plus7 why Russia is using Iranian Drones to target Civilian buildings and kill the Occupants, and damage Infrastructure, who killed Civilians and hastily put them in mass graves some with their hands tied behind their backs, deliberately firing missiles into shopping centers these are atrocities being committed by Russian forces or do you not see this?

 

First of all, I'm not justifying civilian deaths on the war. I will explain it from general prospective, assuming that you (and others) know that wars periodically happen.

Russia using Iranian drones because it doesn't have enough its own. Its military doctrine (published) was defensive. It means they thought "if we not going to attack anyone why would we need drones? Being attacked, we could just nuke the enemy". That's why somewhat lacks modern warfare.

Unlike US which is doing small wars periodically and needs exact, precise weapon.

Russian army attacks civilians buildings (not civilians) because buildings are often reorganized as military objects, weapon storage, garages, barracks. Attacking such structures is not a war crime as you may find from "Geneva conventions".  Ukraine not always specially doing this masking. Its just because there is no other place for soldiers or weapon. Finally, Ukraine may always show a scary picture to mass media.

About this shopping center that was stroke several months ago (the one with empty parking), I personally checked on Google map, it was just next door to railway station. Besides, Google maps labeled the object as "permanently closed" about year ago. I assume it was a storage or the goal was railway station. Probably, you know that Dresden (Germany) was bombed flat by west allies at the end of the war because it was a transport hub? Was there a need for such atrocity or not, too late to judge, but destroying transportation and energetic system of the enemy is necessary and common step on a war.

Other reasons of civilian building destruction may include: Old, not precise weapon hits wrong target, intelligence reported wrong object, the missile was intercepted and just fell down.

I'm sure, the military would love to have the precision of HIMARS or that blade-rocket that killed single Al-qaeda terrorist chef somewhere recently.

But they have to fight with the weapon the have.

 

I already explained mass graving. Those are, probably civilians and soldiers killed during city fights. In summer russian army advanced and took every city several days with much efforts. Cities were yet with civilians. I watch youtube, and there are many bloggers from Ukrainian cities who blogs their life under shelling. Unbelievable, to us, but they say we're not going to evacuate. Because our parents old, because I love my house, because I love my animals (cats, cows), my house will be looted. They are not evacuating because they are not afraid of russians per se, and they just hope to avoid accidental strike.

Of course, with such attitude there will be accidental deaths among civilians.

The army simply engrave bodies (including russian soldiers) all to save time and efforts.

Not too much respect to dead ? Yes, sad, but reality. Russia is lacking respect to live too ????

But even the engraving with christian crosses and separate graves, and name plates were called a genocide.

 

How can I explain tied hands ? Well, different circumstances.. Finally I don't exclude criminal deaths. The war is the place for all kinds of bad people. Such bodies, when found,  will be also buried. By my understanding nobody will bother with untying of the dead.

 

Please let me know if my reply was comprehensive, I'd like to get a feedback from you.

 

 

 

[tgw]

16 minutes ago, plus7 said:

Barra Marra, this was my reply to you removed by moderator.

Thank you for your question and choosing me for the one who you think could reply.

First of all, I'm not justifying civilian deaths on the war. I will explain it from general prospective, assuming that you (and others) know that wars periodically happen.

Russia using Iranian drones because it doesn't have enough its own. Its military doctrine (published) was defensive. It means they thought "if we not going to attack anyone why would we need drones? Being attacked, we could just nuke the enemy". That's why somewhat lacks modern warfare.

Unlike US which is doing small wars periodically and needs exact, precise weapon.

 

<snip>

"wars periodically happen" ... no they are started by warmongers, they don't just "happen".

 

Yes, we could witness Russia's defensive military doctrine in Georgia, Abkhazia, Transnistria, East Prigorodny, Tadjikistan, Chechnya, Dagestan, Chechnya 2, Georgia, North Caucasus, Syria, Central African Republic and Ukraine.

 

"unlike US which is doing small wars periodically" ... yeah, right. Russia only did "special military operations" in the above countries.

 

I will stop there because your post is just pro-Russia propaganda drivel trying to portray Russia as the victim. good luck with that. seems a new wave of trolls were commissioned in Olgino...

Edited October 18, 2022 by tgw

[metisdead]

A post commenting on moderation and a reply has been removed.

[plus7]

50 minutes ago, tgw said:

I will stop there because your post is just pro-Russia propaganda drivel trying to portray Russia as the victim. good luck with that. seems a new wave of trolls were commissioned in Olgino...

I was asked (in another topic, but moderator asked to continue here) how could I explain that and that.

I think you're disappointed and biased because I draw a realistic picture where one could hardly find something special comparing to another wars.

You and your friends igniting hate and doing the propaganda.

I would understand if you (your wife, relatives) were a Ukrainian. If so, I will simply shut up, because I can understand your personal grief and hate. In this case reading my "explanation" will hurt your filing anyway and I simply don't want this.

 

As I said, I'm against the war, peace to Ukraine and to Russia. I'm against portraying Russia as the _single_ origin of the evil. No objections, if you say "Russia and other imperialistic countries ..."

 

By the way, your list of wars is so long because there are doubles. Tajikistan is not related, East Prigorod - something not existing. Chechnya and Dagestan is north Caucasus and part of Russia.

In Sirya, the russian army was invited by the president (as it was invited to Georgia in 19 century to avoid genocide from Turkey).

Edited October 18, 2022 by plus7

[coolcarer]

Barbarians

US warns of ‘war crimes’ after Russian drone attack on Ukraine
Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the attacks showed the need to provide “everything possible” to Ukraine as its forces continue their offensive against the Russian invaders into the colder months.
“It is a sign of increased desperation by Russia, but it’s also a sign of the levels that they will stoop to and that we’ve seen repeatedly when it comes to targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure,” Blinken said.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/18/us-warns-of-war-crimes-after-russian-drone-attack-on-ukraine

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory post and replies have been removed

[tgw]

1 hour ago, plus7 said:

I was asked (in another topic, but moderator asked to continue here) how could I explain that and that.

I think you're disappointed and biased because I draw a realistic picture where one could hardly find something special comparing to another wars.

You and your friends igniting hate and doing the propaganda.

I would understand if you (your wife, relatives) were a Ukrainian. If so, I will simply shut up, because I can understand your personal grief and hate. In this case reading my "explanation" will hurt your filing anyway and I simply don't want this.

 

As I said, I'm against the war, peace to Ukraine and to Russia. I'm against portraying Russia as the _single_ origin of the evil. No objections, if you say "Russia and other imperialistic countries ..."

 

By the way, your list of wars is so long because there are doubles. Tajikistan is not related, East Prigorod - something not existing. Chechnya and Dagestan is north Caucasus and part of Russia.

In Sirya, the russian army was invited by the president (as it was invited to Georgia in 19 century to avoid genocide from Turkey).

"a realistic picture where one could hardly find something special comparing to another wars."

you are joking, right ?

 

show me another recent large-scale war where a large democratic country has been attacked and invaded by fascists ? and on top of that it happens in Europe !

it is reminiscent of WW2, and WW2 was very very special.

 

"You and your friends igniting hate and doing the propaganda."

uuh sure.

do you have examples of me doing propaganda?

 

wow, you offer to "shut up" in order to not hurt my feelings ... err... why couldn't Russia simply stop the war in order to stop hurting people for real ?

 

So you are against the war ... you do realize that if Russia stops fighting and withdraws within its internationally recognized borders, the war stops, right ?

 

 

 

[plus7]

7 minutes ago, tgw said:

>>do you have examples of me doing propaganda?

When you depicting something such emotionally adjectives as "fascist". When you declare something "war crimes" when something may not be a crime, this is propaganda too. You're one of top posters in this group!

When you presented a list of countries and intentionally inflated with non-existing, repeating items, it so it looks bigger.

 

7 minutes ago, tgw said:

wow, you offer to "shut up" in order to not hurt my feelings ... err... why couldn't Russia simply stop the war in order to stop hurting people for real ?

So you are against the war ... you do realize that if Russia stops fighting and withdraws within its internationally recognized borders, the war stops, right ?

I offer _myself_  to shut up because I'm not going to argue with ukrainians. In front of them, a particular war incidents will not be justifiable, and simply because of humanitarian reasons.

I don't know the answer to everything (about how to stop the war)  but I know that negotiations is the first step to it.

 

 

[coolcarer]

6 minutes ago, plus7 said:

When you depicting something such emotionally adjectives as "fascist". When you declare something "war crimes" when something may not be a crime, this is propaganda too. You're one of top posters in this group!

When you presented a list of countries and intentionally inflated with non-existing, repeating items, it so it looks bigger.

 

I offer _myself_  to shut up because I'm not going to argue with ukrainians. In front of them, a particular war incidents will not be justifiable, and simply because of humanitarian reasons.

I don't know the answer to everything (about how to stop the war)  but I know that negotiations is the first step to it.

 

 

Deliberately targeting civilian infastructure, power plants, water etc is a war crime. Look it up. Russia is doing that right now as we are posting. Losing on the battle field so go for the terrorist approach. 

[candide]

1 hour ago, plus7 said:

I was asked (in another topic, but moderator asked to continue here) how could I explain that and that.

I think you're disappointed and biased because I draw a realistic picture where one could hardly find something special comparing to another wars.

You and your friends igniting hate and doing the propaganda.

I would understand if you (your wife, relatives) were a Ukrainian. If so, I will simply shut up, because I can understand your personal grief and hate. In this case reading my "explanation" will hurt your filing anyway and I simply don't want this.

 

As I said, I'm against the war, peace to Ukraine and to Russia. I'm against portraying Russia as the _single_ origin of the evil. No objections, if you say "Russia and other imperialistic countries ..."

 

By the way, your list of wars is so long because there are doubles. Tajikistan is not related, East Prigorod - something not existing. Chechnya and Dagestan is north Caucasus and part of Russia.

In Sirya, the russian army was invited by the president (as it was invited to Georgia in 19 century to avoid genocide from Turkey).

The fact that other countries have been imperialists is irrelevant to the case. I understand Russia was not happy, but it's not a reason to start a war.

 

Russia (and in particular Putin) is responsible for the fate it experienced from the 90's  (its decline). As you seem to be knowledgeable about history,  it is obvious that the will of Eastern Europe countries to join NATO has been caused by former episodes of Russian imperialism. 

 

Putin is a fail. He has not been able to develop his country despite its huge natural resources and quality human resources (in particular in S&T). Properly managed  Russia should be like California. He has also not been able to provide well-being to the population, as indicated (among others) by the declining population.

 

It's not surprising that other countries don't want to partner with a loser, on top of it imperialist. Russia has nearly no soft power. Even China, despite being pleased to annoy Western countries and in particular the USA, doesn't want to commit too much because Russia weights peanuts from a business point of view.

 

[plus7]

8 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Deliberately targeting civilian infastructure, power plants, water etc is a war crime. Look it up. Russia is doing that right now as we are posting. Losing on the battle field so go for the terrorist approach. 

I will not justify and "explain" recent strikes. My "long read" was not about it. Maybe I can agree with Blinken (from your recent post) on that.

 

Candide, thank you for your measured reply. I see nothing in your post that I could object to.

Edited October 18, 2022 by plus7

[tgw]

8 minutes ago, plus7 said:

When you depicting something such emotionally adjectives as "fascist". When you declare something "war crimes" when something may not be a crime, this is propaganda too. You're one of top posters in this group!

When you presented a list of countries and intentionally inflated with non-existing, repeating items, it so it looks bigger.

 

I offer _myself_  to shut up because I'm not going to argue with ukrainians. In front of them, a particular war incidents will not be justifiable, and simply because of humanitarian reasons.

I don't know the answer to everything (about how to stop the war)  but I know that negotiations is the first step to it.

okay, let's check:

 

what is fascism?

Quote

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,^[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

 

far-right: kind of checks

authoritarian: oh yes and then some

ultranationalist: check Putin's speech at the annexation ceremony

dictatorial leader: check

centralized autocracy: check

militarism: check

forcible suppression of opposition: check

belief in natural social hierarchy: check

subordination of individual interests for the nation and race: check

regimentation of society and economy: check

 

 

apparently, I also "declare something a war crime when something may not be a crime" ... this requires examples, please.

 

the list of conflicts I presented contained no non-existing items. some were repeated because there were several armed conflicts, sometimes because Russia lost the first time but came back for more.

all armed conflicts (including "special military operations" !) within or outside of Russia's alleged borders I listed are real and involved Russian troops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

 

again, about war crimes, find posts where I said something was a war crime when it wasn't.

 

and about negotiations:

asking for negotiations now is a pro-Russian propaganda ploy because negotiations would reward Russia's aggression, putting it into the situation of offering things it does not own as "goodwill".

The precondition for any negotiation is Russia offering to evacuate from all Ukrainian territories it illegally occupies.

 

 

[candide]

15 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

The fact that other countries have been imperialists is irrelevant to the case. I understand Russia was not happy, but it's not a reason to start a war.

 

I can agree with this statement. It’s the double standards and hypocrisy that is so nauseating.

 

 

To some extent only. Take the case of the most notorious case: the scam war in Irak. Nearly nobody will agree now that it may have been justified. Even at that time, several European countries opposed it (ex France), the same countries which are against Putin now.

Other cases, such as Syria, have been motivated by stupidity (help an opposition which was mainly composed of islamic groups), rather than by an imperialist stance.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, plus7 said:

 

First of all, I'm not justifying civilian deaths on the war. I will explain it from general prospective, assuming that you (and others) know that wars periodically happen.

Russia using Iranian drones because it doesn't have enough its own. Its military doctrine (published) was defensive. It means they thought "if we not going to attack anyone why would we need drones? Being attacked, we could just nuke the enemy". That's why somewhat lacks modern warfare.

Unlike US which is doing small wars periodically and needs exact, precise weapon.

Russian army attacks civilians buildings (not civilians) because buildings are often reorganized as military objects, weapon storage, garages, barracks. Attacking such structures is not a war crime as you may find from "Geneva conventions".  Ukraine not always specially doing this masking. Its just because there is no other place for soldiers or weapon. Finally, Ukraine may always show a scary picture to mass media.

About this shopping center that was stroke several months ago (the one with empty parking), I personally checked on Google map, it was just next door to railway station. Besides, Google maps labeled the object as "permanently closed" about year ago. I assume it was a storage or the goal was railway station. Probably, you know that Dresden (Germany) was bombed flat by west allies at the end of the war because it was a transport hub? Was there a need for such atrocity or not, too late to judge, but destroying transportation and energetic system of the enemy is necessary and common step on a war.

Other reasons of civilian building destruction may include: Old, not precise weapon hits wrong target, intelligence reported wrong object, the missile was intercepted and just fell down.

I'm sure, the military would love to have the precision of HIMARS or that blade-rocket that killed single Al-qaeda terrorist chef somewhere recently.

But they have to fight with the weapon the have.

 

I already explained mass graving. Those are, probably civilians and soldiers killed during city fights. In summer russian army advanced and took every city several days with much efforts. Cities were yet with civilians. I watch youtube, and there are many bloggers from Ukrainian cities who blogs their life under shelling. Unbelievable, to us, but they say we're not going to evacuate. Because our parents old, because I love my house, because I love my animals (cats, cows), my house will be looted. They are not evacuating because they are not afraid of russians per se, and they just hope to avoid accidental strike.

Of course, with such attitude there will be accidental deaths among civilians.

The army simply engrave bodies (including russian soldiers) all to save time and efforts.

Not too much respect to dead ? Yes, sad, but reality. Russia is lacking respect to live too ????

But even the engraving with christian crosses and separate graves, and name plates were called a genocide.

 

How can I explain tied hands ? Well, different circumstances.. Finally I don't exclude criminal deaths. The war is the place for all kinds of bad people. Such bodies, when found,  will be also buried. By my understanding nobody will bother with untying of the dead.

 

Please let me know if my reply was comprehensive, I'd like to get a feedback from you.

 

 

 

I'm not going to answer all your nonsense but lots of those civilian corpses were found to be tied up and bore marks of torture. This was one of the findings of the independent UN investigators.

[tgw]

22 minutes ago, plus7 said:

Your list is missing the important part: Ideology.

After USSR collapse there were no governmental ideology. Militaristic, I doubt, army size were decreasing for years until Crimea.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/military-army-size

 

You inflated the list of "wars", but it was done unintentionally I think, even included local conflicts, protective wars where Russia protected Tajikistan from Al-quaeda on its borders, or when Chechnya attacked Dagestan. You just copied it...

 

I browsed several a bit this thread and should say you're not a propagandist. I must be mistaken you with someone else.

EXCUSE ME FOR CALLING YOU A PROPAGANDIST

Putin has built up an Ideology, it also got a symbol: "Z"

https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/the-ideology-behind-russias-war

https://www.uu.nl/en/news/putins-motive-the-radical-ideology-of-a-holy-russian-nation

 

the list of wars is there to illustrate Russia's need for drones, as your point was that Russia has not been involved in enough conflicts for it to have a need for drones. I would hold the opinion that the nature of the conflicts, local, internal, etc. and the opponents in the conflicts are largely irrelevant in the question of the need for drones. drones are needed in every war, and Russia was involved in many.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2022 by tgw

[rudi49jr]

47 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I'm not going to answer all your nonsense but lots of those civilian corpses were found to be tied up and bore marks of torture.

Not to mention being shot in the head, execution style. These are not just ‘accidental’ civilian deaths, like Plus 7 would have us believe, but deliberately killed and often raped and/or tortured first by Russian soldiers, probably ordered to do so by their commanding officers. How anyone can justify, defend or gloss over something like that is beyond me. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by metisdead
Baiting comment removed.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, plus7 said:

A reply on reasonable message starting with "I'm not going to answer all your nonsense" should be truncated.

Well, that's one way to avoid responding to the fact that an independent UN team of investigators found plenty of evidence of mass torture and murder of civilians.

[plus7]

7 minutes ago, tgw said:

Putin has built up an Ideology, it also got a symbol: "Z"

You overestimate Putin's role in it and its importance. Ideology is at least a book. Z is just a symbol of the war, but not the ideology. Symbolism.

 

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, that's one way to avoid responding to the fact that an independent UN team of investigators found plenty of evidence of mass torture and murder of civilians.

I admit cases of tortures, accidental and criminal death of civilians (like robbery, extorting money) not only from russian soldiers. But I deny its mass , organized character and especially its genocidal nature.

Besides, it is the war, a sign of torture could be a wound.

Imagine a simple case: soldiers captured an enemy soldier, surely he will be tied. Then a shell explodes and kill them all. One of corpses will have tied hands, wounds. If slightly blur vision,  it can be called a victim of a torture.

Finally, if they found evidences, let them continue with the investigation and find the suspected.

 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, plus7 said:

I admit cases of tortures, accidental and criminal death of civilians (like robbery, extorting money) not only from russian soldiers. But I deny its mass , organized character and especially its genocidal nature.

Besides, it is the war, a sign of torture could be a wound.

Imagine a simple case: soldiers captured an enemy soldier, surely he will be tied. Then a shell explodes and kill them all. One of corpses will have tied hands, wounds. If slightly blur vision,  it can be called a victim of a torture.

Finally, if they found evidences, let them continue with the investigation and find the suspected.

 

Those UN investigators have so much to learn from you.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, plus7 said:

I was asked (in another topic, but moderator asked to continue here) how could I explain that and that.

I think you're disappointed and biased because I draw a realistic picture where one could hardly find something special comparing to another wars.

You and your friends igniting hate and doing the propaganda.

I would understand if you (your wife, relatives) were a Ukrainian. If so, I will simply shut up, because I can understand your personal grief and hate. In this case reading my "explanation" will hurt your filing anyway and I simply don't want this.

Sure it's "you and your friends igniting hate and doing the propaganda".

 

Russia’s Ukraine Propaganda Has Turned Fully Genocidal

A more recent RIA Novosti op-ed by Timofey Sergeytsev describes the planned extermination of an entire nation in a matter-of-fact manner.... “A significant part of the masses of the people, who are passive Nazis, are accomplices to Nazism,” he writes. Ukraine’s elites “must be liquidated as they cannot be reeducated and the social swamp that backed them must be subject to the terror of war and made to pay for their crimes.”

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/09/russia-putin-propaganda-ukraine-war-crimes-atrocities/

 

RIA Novosti (Russian: РИА Новости), sometimes referred to as RIAN (РИАН) or RIA (РИА) is a Russian state-owned domestic news agency. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIA_Novosti

 

 

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, plus7 said:

Yes, some writers or hosts on talk-shows are crazy. For example, this woman from video, upper on this page. Impossible to watch from the beginning of her career. I also internally outraged when I read  "nationalists" or "hitman" instead of "soldier". Propaganda does present on TV on both sides, no wonder, they're recruiting.

But, in general, news are moderate and do only before-mentioned "soldier" replacement.

People go to war to close its home, car credits...

 

As I specifically pointed out, this was not a talk show. This was an op ed column from an official Russian media source.

And as for those crazy talk show hosts,  How is it that the Russian government  prohibits them from calling the Ukraine misadventure a war but won't stifle them  from mouthing violent, genocidal rants?

[tgw]

1 hour ago, plus7 said:

You overestimate Putin's role in it and its importance. Ideology is at least a book. Z is just a symbol of the war, but not the ideology. Symbolism.

ah, it needs a book ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/23/ideology-alexander-dugin-global-far-right/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

commentary:

https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-49832-0

Quote

This book examines the interplay between key rulers and intellectuals in creating and sustaining popular discourses that often help keep rulers in power. By focusing in particular on the relationship between Putin and Dugin during the early Putin regime, the author zooms in on the questionable honesty in Putin's interest in Dugin's philosophy, and the instrumentality of that philosophy for strategic regime building. Arguing that ideology is largely supported by political philosophies that gain popular traction, the book questions the extent to which rulers are likely to stay faithful to their stated ideologies. Providing on-the-ground insight into Putin's rule, this book appeals to researchers and policymakers studying Post-Soviet Politics.

 

anyway, it's pretty revealing that for you the main thing that would separate Putin's Ruzzia from "proper" fascism is the existence of a book ...
I guess it's good we even have a book then.

Edited October 18, 2022 by tgw

[Social Media]

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, plus7 said:

Yes, some writers or hosts on talk-shows are crazy. For example, this woman from video, upper on this page. Impossible to watch from the beginning of her career. I also internally outraged when I read  "nationalists" or "hitman" instead of "soldier". Propaganda does present on TV on both sides, no wonder, they're recruiting.

But, in general, news are moderate and do only before-mentioned "soldier" replacement.

People go to war to close its home, car credits...

 

Its not just TV hosts though is it, if you really want to see the plans for Ukraine then listen to:

Deputy Defense Committee Chairman Vladimir Shamanov

Post a few pages back with his video interview here

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, plus7 said:

As this article says maybe he was known in military elite , police cheefs... may be. But their god is "Golden Taurus".

Masses have no idea about Dugin or his daughter.

 

Really?

The far-right mystical writer who helped shape Putin’s view of Russia

His breakthrough work was the 1997 book “The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia,” which was so wildly popular that supermarkets placed it at their checkout counters. It set out a playbook for dealing with the West that seems by now all too familiar: using disinformation and soft power to “provoke all forms of instability and separatism” within the United States, including by stoking racial and political tensions, while bolstering nationalism and authoritarianism at home.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/05/12/dugin-russia-ukraine-putin/