Thailand does the math: Two are dying per hour on the Thai roads

[Thunglom]

8 minutes ago, SuwadeeS said:

They might made their Math, but never learn their lessons.

Anyway. The Thai statistics is properly wrong. 

I do strongly believe, the dark figure will double it.

The real number with traffic fatalities is around 30.000.

There come many point together. Why?

1. The traffic increased.

2, The traffic got more dense.

3, People get more aggresive.

4. Kids without proper driving skills get a motorbike. Even thought it is against the law, parents still buy motorbikes for kids as young as 10-12 years old.

5. Then the old people I do know many old Thai, who do not have a proper reaction time and even can not see properly, means their eyes are down 75-80 %. But guess what? They are stubborn and deniable.

6. I see every hour uncountable traffic law violations. Means nobody really cares. Even the police. E.g. I know a police box, which is always occupied. But they always look away. Within 5 minutes I saw almost a thousand traffic violations.

7. As a matter of fact, nobody really care.

 

So let them all die in accidents!!!!

 

Whoever goes into danger will perish in it.

As the figures have remained the same for nearly 30 years most of your premises are unsupportable.

[yeahbutif]

Think people see a Mask as a thing that will stop them from dieing...but they think a crash helmet is just a law..and the law not inforced.... So   why wear one.... it still baffles me how people can be so thick. Riding with out lights at night. Would love to desect a brain to see what's in there..but maybe I be disappointed.ad just saw dust.or an amulet..

[Will B Good]

5 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

As the figures have remained the same for nearly 30 years most of your premises are unsupportable.

Now that was a surprise.....

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Will B Good

[berrec]

 

You can't put brains in statues!

[SuwadeeS]

11 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Now that was a surprise.....

 

I do not believe this graph.

Thai government just learned better to cover up the real figure to not Look so bad.  Remember they have close friends with the CCP. The experts for manipulate numbers.

[Thunglom]

16 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Now that was a surprise.....

 

You see my point?

 

[Thunglom]

24 minutes ago, SuwadeeS said:

As a matter of fact:

Even with all the high tech in the shops available. Thailand is social political still in stone age. Can be easily proven by comparing the evolution of society and and how easy they get everything.

Thailand is ruled by the military - this means that most politicians are just promoted to the position - both parliamentarians and the civil service lack a meritocracy. the result is that it lacks people of intelligence, critical ability and "experts" in many fields. Road safety is a symptom of democracy and is sidelined by those obsessed with law and order and business profits.

[rott]

2 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

...but then again does it matter, when the root cause is poor driving skills and a total disregard for other peoples lives.

And total lack of law enforcement, largely due to police corruption and inefficiency. Low pay, poor training and no discipline don't help either. 

[Thunglom]

38 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

Who are the "Traffic police" then??

Seriously? they are a group of police given a secondhand hHonda - they aren't trained and there is no incident investigation squad - there is no system for enforcing road rules and no system in thecoursts for dealing with it - you can write what you like on car it doesn't make it real.

[Thunglom]

Statistics in Thailand.....

=

3 - Statistics

As Mark Twain famously said (along with a few others), “There are lies, damned lies and statistics”

 

These are the main data sources for road safety statistics in Thailand

1. Police Information System (POLIS) - Royal Thai Police
2. TRAMS - Ministry of Transport
3. E-Claim - Road Victim Protection Company
4. Injury Surveillance (IS) - Ministry of Public Health
5. Trauma Registry - Ministry of Public Health
6. 19 External Causes of Injury - Ministry of Public Health
7. Information Technology for Emergency Medical System (ITEMS) - Emergency Medical Institute of Thailand
8. Emergency Claim Online (EMCO) - National Health Security Office
9. OP/PP Individual Record - National Health Security Office
10. Death Certificates - Ministry of Interior

They are seldom used or even acknowledged by the mainstream media.

The way statistics are gathered is usually by internationally recognised methods[1], but Thailand has dreadful statistics gathering and collation. Their statistics are incomplete inconsistent and inaccurate – Organisations like the WHO have to try and make sense of them, but in some categories, they simply aren’t available.

How they are gathered and applied in relation to motoring in particular can be very haphazard.

Having said that, it is fair to conclude that the stats for Thailand however vague, remain frightening and there is without doubt a serious road safety problem in the country.

 

While some road crashes can be predictable and preventable, efforts to systematically reduce crashes in resource-constrained environments have been stymied by lack of accurate, geo-referenced crash and health outcome data to support targeted interventions. As Michael Bloomberg said, “If you can’t measure it, then you can’t manage it”.

 

Statistics may include

·      Deaths per 1 million inhabitants (or 100,000)

o   Serious Injuries per I million inhabitants

o   Minor injuries per 1 million inhabitants

 

·      Deaths per 10 billion vehicle-KM

 

·      Deaths per 100,000 registered vehicles

 

·      Registered vehicles per 1000 inhabitants

[WHO]

 

A crash report form is typically completed (traditionally a paper-based form, although recently computer-based systems have been used), allowing collection of quite detailed information on the crash. Key variables typically collected include:

 

·      crash location (including geographic coordinates);

·      time of day, day of week, month of year, year;

·      information on those who were involved (including road user type, age, gender, injury sustained);

·      details regarding the road (whether at an intersection, speed limit, curvature, traffic control, markings);

·      details on the environment (light conditions, weather, road surface wet or dry);

·      information regarding what happened in the crash (vehicle movement types, objects struck (including off-road), and contributory factors such as speed, alcohol use or driver distraction);

·      vehicle factors (type of vehicles involved).[2]

 

 

“In a nutshell, we need an integrated and standardised database system on road accidents that can be used across all agencies involved. This database system is necessary for the National Road Accident Prevention and Reduction Policy Commission to meet its goals more effectively.” – TDRI[3]

 

There are quite a mix of stats available about road safety in Thailand but the ones you usually see in the media are from either the Thai police or the WHO. The Thai police could almost be dismissed out of hand and the WHO is usually misrepresented as they only quote only the set of stats relating to DEATHS out of 100,000 population.

If you want to get an idea of how pathetically incomplete Thai road safety stats are just compare them with a brief look around the UK government web sites – for example - https://roadtraffic.dft.gov.uk/downloads

 

 

The Thai police give out statistics too soon to be accurate and they fail to follow up or record minor or serious injury categories. Their analysis for RTIs is just not in any way comprehensive or scientific  enough to draw any reliable information from. All they do is take a few details, make a pronouncement and declare the case closed. Nothing is useful for future analysis.

 

WHO – gather stats pertaining to deaths per 100k, serious injuries, and minor injuries. They also gather statistics relating to the number of vehicles owned the mileage they cover. These are vital to get a good picture but totally ignored by the media.

When it comes to the WHO categories, there are no figures for Thai injuries that comply with international norms/standards i.e. - they should be in 3 grades - fatalities, serious injuries and minor injuries - this was not done until the last 2 or 3 years when some statistic gatherers appear to have been trying to redress the balance.

 

Collecting Data

 

A crash report form is an essential starting point

Key variables typically collected include:

 

·      crash location (including geographic coordinates);

·      time of day, day of week, month of year, year;

·      information on those who were involved (including road user type, age, gender, injury sustained);

·      details regarding the road (whether at an intersection, speed limit, curvature, traffic control, markings);

·      details on the environment (light conditions, weather, road surface wet or dry);

·      information regarding what happened in the crash (vehicle movement types, objects struck (including off-road), and contributory factors such as speed, alcohol use or driver distraction);

·      vehicle factors (type of vehicles involved).[4]

 

Crash data can be extremely useful to a number of agencies and individuals, including:

• traffic engineers – in the identification, analysis and treatment of existing risks and the prevention of future risk problems;
• policy-makers – at national, regional and local levels in setting crash reduction targets, developing road safety action plans, and monitoring performance;
• police – in the identification of problem locations and times for enforcement;
• health sector – for resource planning, injury surveillance, health promotion and injury prevention interventions;
• research community – in preventative studies and in testing and improving the effectiveness of road safety treatments;
• insurance companies – in setting insurance rates and premiums;
• vehicle manufacturers – in the development of safer vehicles;
• prosecutors – in the use of data as evidence.

 

These are the main data sources for road safety statistics in Thailand

1. Police Information System (POLIS) - Royal Thai Police
2. TRAMS - Ministry of Transport
3. E-Claim - Road Victim Protection Company
4. Injury Surveillance (IS) - Ministry of Public Health
5. Trauma Registry - Ministry of Public Health
6. 19 External Causes of Injury - Ministry of Public Health
7. Information Technology for Emergency Medical System (ITEMS) - Emergency Medical Institute of Thailand
8. Emergency Claim Online (EMCO) - National Health Security Office
9. OP/PP Individual Record - National Health Security Office
10. Death Certificates - Ministry of Interior

They are seldom used or even acknowledged by the mainstream media.

 

 

Filter this information through a media that is uneducated and archaic in their thinking and you get a picture that is at best blurred and out of focus or at worst, downright misleading.

This is not to say that the road death situation in Thailand isn’t lamentable but it cannot be addressed with appropriate action until proper and accurate information is available.

 

Just to get an idea of how traffic in Thailand has changed exponentially in the last 3 decades…. In 1980, there were just 600,000 cars on the streets of Thailand's capital, by 1990 the number had risen to 2.3 million and now it’s around 5 million daily – it’s hard to imagine the numbers involved in this exponential growth. . .. Thais nationwide are now driving in the region of 37 million cars and 22 million motorcycles on roads that have been rapidly built with scant regard to safety.

 

Government subsidies and a massive expansion of the road infrastructure also did their part. Today, it is estimated that there are more than 5 million cars on Bangkok’s streets alone. Unlike other countries who are trying to establish a solid infrastructure for public transport, Thailand has gone down the road of the individual motorist, at least in part because it has developed this large motor industry of its own. And partly one has to conclude that those in power are ignorant of the advances in the science of road safety or think they personally know better.

 

Although statistically safer than private vehicles, the public transport system is poor in both quality and performance and lacks infrastructure and finance. The lack of legislation means a “professional” driver is likely to be a hungover guy burnt out by amphetamines waiting for the next hangover to start. Despite the reputation of minivan drivers in Thailand, they are still statistically safer than a car or motorcycle.

However logic would suggest that by driving yourself you are at least in control of speed and drink and drug intake whilst making the journey.

 

One important thing to bear in mind is that if you are in a 4-wheeled private vehicle, you are statistically as likely to die as you are in a similar vehicle in the USA. 80 % of deaths are vulnerable road users and 73% of deaths are motorcyclists, drivers and passengers. 13% are cars and pickup trucks.

 

The factors in RTIs in Thailand are actually very similar to everywhere else in the world. First off, if you are poor, you are more at risk.

 

---

[1] The standard measures used in assessing road safety interventions are fatalities and killed-or-seriously-injured (KSI) rates, usually expressed per billion (10⁹) passenger kilometres. Countries using older road-safety paradigms^[7] replace KSI rates with crash rates – for example, crashes per million vehicle-miles. – wiki

 

 

[2] https://roadsafety.piarc.org/en/road-safety-management-safety-data/crash-data-system

 

[3] TDRI - https://tdri.or.th/en/2020/11/road-accidents-biggest-health-crisis/

[4] https://roadsafety.piarc.org/en/road-safety-management-safety-data/crash-data-system

 

[welshguy]

i do own a little scooter in Thailand. I live over the "dark-side" , when Im there...so I use it to go shopping, to the swimming pool etc,

 

Never use it at night, and dont often cross Sukhumvit road, unless Im going to Tesco or Big C etc, (yes! I know I can still have an accident on the "quieter" dark side....see evidence every day I drive around out there!)

 

I appreciate people on bikes, have a higher (much) chance of being involved in an accident.

 

(Rarely see bikes crashing into bikes though?!). No way. could I drive a car in Thailand (Well in Pattaya Im talking about!) .

 

Bikes cars, driving the wrong side of the road, people using 2 (sometimes 3) lanes to "turn left", lots and lots of drivers (particularly cars/lorries/pick ups etc)seem to think, its OK to not stop at a junction, and to just pull out, sod anybody driving along the road they are turning into!

 

Speeding, dangerous parking, using mobiles, totally clueless what to do at the infernal roundabouts, totally ignoring red lights (not by a "second or two either!), unable to parallel park or reverse properly, U-turns? Oh my god don't even get me started! Drink driving, etc etc etc...its ridiculous how little they seem to value human life. Whilst they are driving...sad but true.

 

As for the Police and "enforcement"? yeah right!!!

 

There are a myriad of things they could do, (some of them very very simple too) to reduce the loss of life on the roads..........Alas though, they don't seem to want to or be able to?

 

Yes! I know I ride a scooter when Im in Thailand (saying that..not been for over 2 years!  God knows when I will be there next!)...and I know bike riders are much more at risk......BUT   simple education/enforcement would be  start...(by enforcement, I dont mean the B.I.B taking some lunch money...but real enforcement....................

 

 

Will anything ever be done? Who knows....I certainly doubt it! 

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by welshguy
spelling

[Expat68]

I am quite sure that some foreigners leave their brains behind at their departure lounge also

[keithkarmann]

2 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

Vietnam impressed me with the high % of people wearing helmets.

Not counting young passengers below driving age, I would estimate 98% - 99%.

 

I mentioned this to a local, who told me that when it became law there was not a lot of compliance, but then they began fining offenders...

I was told that in Vietnam the police keep a percentage of the fine money for motoring offences.

[keithkarmann]

1 hour ago, expat_4_life said:

I thought Thais were incapable of math?

 

All the TAT and various other threads told me so !

Calculators

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Will B Good said:

.but then again does it matter, when the root cause is poor driving skills and a total disregard for other peoples lives.

A mixture of right and wrong. You are right the data does not matter in the slightest, been that way for decades and a national embarrassment that is tolerated by the driving public so unlikely to change.

You are right the driving skills are extremely poor, a question of surviving not driving, and as the saying goes you cannot teach old dogs new tricks.

However the last part is quite wrong, they have no regard for their own life, so why would others come into the equation.

The only hope for the future is the younger generation can be taught better through compulsory driving education, the concept of getting or buying a licence and then learning to drive just doesn't work.

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, Expat68 said:

I am quite sure that some foreigners leave their brains behind at their departure lounge also

Quite. Some years ago I was sat in the old Malibu bar on second road and there was a loud mouth worse the wear round the other side. I couldn't believe it when he fell off the stool and climbed on a big bike. He revved it up and started to set off in the wrong direction, if the bar girls hadn't been so quick jumping in front of him he would have been dead meat within minutes.

In those days the traffic swept down second road like a tidal wave with no room to move.

[DRD123]

If only there was some official group that could hand out fines for terrible driving,speeding , driving too close etc...what do they call those fellas again???

 

 

You get my point, until there are 1000-5000 baht daily fines handed out nothing will change. It would be a massive source of income for these same lads i cannot remember what they are supposed to do again...what is it...enforce laws or something....IDK never really seem any one enforce laws around here.

 

So the bodies pile up. More than covid and i dont make light of it very very sad.

 

Hope they can find some official group to enforce traffic laws one day.

[prakhonchai nick]

11 minutes ago, DRD123 said:

If only there was some official group that could hand out fines for terrible driving,speeding , driving too close etc...what do they call those fellas again???

 

 

You get my point, until there are 1000-5000 baht daily fines handed out nothing will change. It would be a massive source of income for these same lads i cannot remember what they are supposed to do again...what is it...enforce laws or something....IDK never really seem any one enforce laws around here.

 

So the bodies pile up. More than covid and i dont make light of it very very sad.

 

Hope they can find some official group to enforce traffic laws one day.

Fines alone don't work.  Confiscate the vehicle for min imum 1 month, regardless of who owns it, whether it is rented, and what and where the pasengers are from.  Disgorge them all and leave them to their own devices

[Thunglom]

just to give another perspective.....

 

Here are statistics from Wiki gathered from the WHO that take into account the number of vehicles on the roads

 

It is worth bearing in mind that in Thailand you are less likely to die in a 4-wheeled vehicle than in the USA – half the vehicles on Thai roads are 2-wheelers and 73% of deaths are motorcyclists and passengers.

This set gives the number of deaths per 100k VEHICLES 

 

I’ve just put in regional countries and a few WESTERN ones for comparison.

 

Firstly the highest rates of death per car are in Africa they account for almost ALL of the deaths between 500 and 6500per vehicle (yes 6500!!)

 

In the S.E. Asian region 

Myanmar comes out bottom in the region with 251 deaths per 100k vehicles

 

Philippines                                                        135

Cambodia                                                        107

China                                                                104

Laos                                                                   67

THAILAND    (#76 on the overall list!)             60

Vietnam                                                            55

Russia                                                               50

Indonesia                                                          37

Malaysia                                                           35

USA                  (#37 on list)                             14.2

South Korea                                                     13

New Zealand                                                   10

Belgium                                                             9

Canada                                                              9

France                                                               8.5

Australia                                                            7.2

Germany                                                            6.4

Italy                                                                    6.3

Netherlands                                                        6

Japan                                                                 5.7

UK                                                                       5.7

Spain                                                                   5.7

Finland                                                                5

Sweden                                                               4.6

Norway                                                               3

 

 

 

[BadSpottedDog]

4 hours ago, bbko said:

"More than 20,000 people died on xxxxxxxxx roads in the first six months of 2021,

 

Thailand or the USA?

A percentage of population would have to be used instead of raw numbers due to the population difference. This example is taken from 2020-2021 data.

Thailand Population is 70,102,306, with 34,788 Road deaths from 2020-21
So, 0.0496% of the population died on the road that year

USA population is 334,352,957, with 38,680 Road deaths from 2020-21

So, 0.0115% of the population died on the road that year.

*** The recorded deaths from the states would include those who later died at hospital after an accident, while the Thailand numbers don't.


 

[Thunglom]

When it comes to Road safety in Thailand,we will never make progress so long as people think in terms of blaming others and citing personal anecdotes - it ignores the reality of the situation and how it can be solved

As a global community, there is clearly so much knowledge, expertise and interest in road safety. Yet, the issues raised and discussed by the public and authorities in Thailand remain unchanged over decades. We need political will and resources to move to actions to achieve any significant change in the situation in countries like Thailand.

 

Safe system ROSPA on Road safety

https://www.rospa.com/rospaweb/docs/advice-services/road-safety/roads/safe-system.pdf

 

Around 90% of road crashes involve some element of human error. Although educating road users can reduce the number of road crashes that occur, human error cannot be eradicated. Therefore, road users will still sometimes make mistakes that can lead to collisions. One way in which the number of road users killed or seriously injured can be reduced is by adopting a Safe System approach, so that crashes are less likely and when they do occur, it is less likely that the road users involved will be killed or seriously injured. 

Unlike the traditional approach to road safety, the Safe System approach recognises that human error is no longer the primary cause of accidents. Rather, a failure of the road system is the cause of many collisions that result in death or serious injury4. It also shapes interventions to meet the long-term goal of zero deaths and serious injuries, rather than relying on traditional interventions to set the limits of any long-term targets5. 

 

Traditionally in road safety, during the 1950s and 1960s, there was an assumption that the primary goal of road safety was to correct human behaviour, rather than acknowledge that the causes of crashes are related to the inherent risks of using the existing road infrastructure 

 

In the 1970s, there were on average 7,000 people killed on Britain’s roads every year. However, by 2010, this figure had fallen to under 2,000, despite the increase in the number of vehicles on the road. This has largely been attributed to improvements in vehicle and road design, alongside the education, training and publicity initiatives at both national and local level. Specific interventions such as compulsory seatbelts for all drivers and passengers in cars have greatly improved occupant safety. 

The key objective for those managing the roads is that, as road users will continue to make mistakes, when crashes do occur, high severity outcomes such as serious injuries and death do not. Therefore, roads need to be equipped with a ‘forgiving’ infrastructure, taking into account the vulnerability of human beings 

[Thunglom]

8 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

A percentage of population would have to be used instead of raw numbers due to the population difference. This example is taken from 2020-2021 data.

Thailand Population is 70,102,306, with 34,788 Road deaths from 2020-21
So, 0.0496% of the population died on the road that year

USA population is 334,352,957, with 38,680 Road deaths from 2020-21

So, 0.0115% of the population died on the road that year.

*** The recorded deaths from the states would include those who later died at hospital after an accident, while the Thailand numbers don't.


 

Looking at the last 2 years is basically a waste of time. So is being a one stat wonder - this just distorts the picture.

Thailand has like the rest of the world been suffering from Covid and concomitant changes in behaviour and economy. One has to look at the big picture of the last 20 to 30 years to get a good overall view - and that view is no significant change.

The stats use are as quoted above and collated and analysed by such organisations as the WHO.

Police stats on their own are pretty worthless - they aren't even competent collectors.

Edited March 26, 2022 by Thunglom

[mancub]

No need to see any statistical data what-so-ever

A 1 hour drive on an assortment of major/ minor roads will tell you enough to gauge the extent of this road-safety "issue". 

You can't cure stupid, and there's a special kind of collective stupidity out there on the highways.

[Thunglom]

8 minutes ago, BadSpottedDog said:

A percentage of population would have to be used instead of raw numbers due to the population difference. This example is taken from 2020-2021 data.

Thailand Population is 70,102,306, with 34,788 Road deaths from 2020-21
So, 0.0496% of the population died on the road that year

USA population is 334,352,957, with 38,680 Road deaths from 2020-21

So, 0.0115% of the population died on the road that year.

*** The recorded deaths from the states would include those who later died at hospital after an accident, while the Thailand numbers don't.


 

the media's way of comparing is deaths per 100k - Thailand comes out around 32.7 per 100k and USA is round 12.4 per 100 k.

Bear in mind that the USA has a pretty poor record in road safety - they have seen little change in road deaths for the last 3 decades too.

the Thai stats over that period DO include road deaths regardless of how long after the accident.

[Thunglom]

5 minutes ago, mancub said:

No need to see any statistical data what-so-ever

A 1 hour drive on an assortment of major/ minor roads will tell you enough to gauge the extent of this road-safety "issue". 

You can't cure stupid, and there's a special kind of collective stupidity out there on the highways.

That is precisely the ewrongway to look - you obviously don't understand cognitive bias or dissonance

[BadSpottedDog]

The reason the mask wearing initiative has been so successful is because the govt and media are posting the covid case/death numbers EVERY day, in big bold numbers, non stop. It has caused great fear. It is obvious by observing every single Thai person riding a motorbike with NO helmet, but always wearing a mask, that they are more afraid of dying from covid than an accident. 

But common sense says, since there have been 24,648 covid deaths from Jan 2020 till March this year (over 2 years), in comparison to road deaths at 34,778 in just one year, the road deaths are far more dangerous. 

Maybe the Thai govt should post the traffic deaths in big bold numbers, daily on all media and websites. 

 

Even better, call out the number of deaths due to no helmet, as well as delineate between motorbike & car, and include the accidents that result in death at the hospitals.

Edited March 26, 2022 by BadSpottedDog

[Orinoco]

They are way to selfish to care about others.

They do, what they want, when they want, to whom they want.

Two dead an hour. that's so cool Thailand.

Amazing Thailand, again and again. 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

5 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

They should bring in a new law making motorcyclists wear a face mask on the outside of a crash helmet. Then they will have no choice but to wear a one.

In Thailand it doesn't make any difference at all what the law says. Most only obey it if it's convenient to do so, and most of the time it isn't enforced.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Orinoco said:

They are way to selfish to care about others.

They do, what they want, when they want, to whom they want.

Two dead an hour. that's so cool Thailand.

Amazing Thailand, again and again. 

 

I think parking is correlates quite closely with what you say......where we are at least!

 

They don't park, they abandon.

 

6' from the curb, wrong side lights on, park other people in, open doors into traffic and pedestrians.

 

We have a market and they think nothing of stopping, 'nipping' out of the car, which blocks the road totally, to do a five minute shop whilst everyone sits in their car waiting for them.....staggering. 

[RocketDog]

7 hours ago, Enzian said:

Walking around Sukhumvit I used to see a break in the traffic and think I can make it! I can make it! now I think do I want to risk my life to save 30 seconds? Which makes me wonder if pedestrian deaths have gone down at all.

If you're in sight of a road, any road in the Kingdom, you're at risk of death and/or dismemberment.