Vote for the UK government to index link pensions in Thailand

[webfact]

file photo

 

by Michael Bridge

 

With the cost of living going through the roof, and just topping up the car is now a luxury, retirees in Thailand need to count every baht they get each month.

 

Over the past few months, the British media have been reporting on the government’s plans to increase the UK pensions by up to GBP10 a week.

 

That equates at today’s rate of exchange of an extra THB1,760 a month.

 

Sounds great, but because we all decided to retire to the land of smiles, our monthly payments are not indexed link.

 

Live in Spain or even the Philippines and UK pensioners will get the extra.

 

So why should I be penalised for deciding to move to Thailand to retire?

 

I actually wrote about this situation a couple of months ago when they launched a UK Govt petition.

 

So far over 8,500 viewed the post and the petition has risen to over 9,500 votes. If we can reach 10,000 signatures by May 29th then the government must respond to this petition. As a British taxpayer for most of my life, the UK awarded me the top bracket for my pension when I reached 65 years old.

 

That was seven years ago, and they gave me GBP177.50 a week. 

 

OK to start with that meant they transferred THB36,400 a month to my Thai bank account. 

 

Now at the current exchange rate, that has dropped to THB30,000 a month.

 

However, as this is not indexed linked, I still get GBP177.50 today because OAPs in some parts of Asia are not entitled to have their payments indexed linked at all.

 

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If, however, I had decided to retire to say Spain, today they would be sending me GBP185.00 a week, which would equate at today’s exchange rate to THB32,584 a month.

 

That extra THB2,584 a month would go a long way in buying my monthly food bill.

 

I left England back in 2004 and therefore canceled all my UK bank accounts as I moved to the UAE and then Thailand.

 

Now I am sure several of you who still retain an address in the UK, could get around the system by having their pension paid into a UK bank and then sent over here.

 

However, you do need a permanent UK address, which I do not have.

 

Unfair retiring in Thailand

 

I still find it hard to take on board that if I paid my taxes and National insurance why can I not choose where I want to live?

 

What difference to the UK Pension office is it, if they transfer my pension to Spain or Thailand?

It is about time all of us UK expats got a fair deal.

 

Let us know if you are also becoming the poor relation in expat pension transfers or is it just our bad luck.

 

Could we do anything about it?
 
YES....Here is the latest petition to the British government.
 
Please add your name.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/601821 

 

On April 18th through the efforts of our AseanNow viewers, the petition had reached 9,759 votes, just a mere 241 to go so tell your UK expats to keep voting. It could make a difference.

 

-- © Copyright  ASEAN NOW 2022-04-16

 

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[smedly]

what is going on on top of this 

 

pensions in the uk are now being presented with other benefits - people can claim stuff at old age on pension to supliment what they are getting - in other words if you are in the UK you can claim for almost automatic benefits to as much as 400 quid  a month - so they have divided pension payments between what you would normaly get and other claims , I am not of state pension age but unless you are in the UK you will not get those other benefits you would be entitled too which further dilutes your payments - my observation as I see it

 

you should not have to claim extras - it should be in your pnesion default

 

just more ways of getting shafted 

[scubascuba3]

I signed it last time. As it's unfair i can see why people just say they live UK

[steve187]

 over the last 7 years the UK state pension has risen by 20.5% (£36.79), making your weekly amount £216.79 rises were. ( i think that how it be)

2015/16	2.5%	2.5%
2016/17	2.9%	Earnings
2017/18	2.5%	2.5%
2018/19	3%	CPI
2019/20	2.6%	Earnings
2020/21	3.9%	Earnings
2021/22	2.5%	2.5%
2022/23	3.1%	CPI

2 hours ago, smedly said:

in other words if you are in the UK you can claim for almost automatic benefits to as much as 400 quid  a month

not sure what these near automatic benefits are

[jacko45k]

I bet if one asked many a person in the UK whether we should get a rise they would say no, and that the money should be utilized domestically. UK economy is in a mess, and with immigration, refugees, energy cost crisis, and other spending policies it isn't going to get better. 

It might seem like political folly to chuck money overseas on people who do not vote even. 

(And don't mention the morons supergluing themselves to roads while they and their 6 kids live off benefits!)

Edited April 15, 2022 by jacko45k

[scubascuba3]

18 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I bet if one asked many a person in the UK whether we should get a rise they would say no

I'd vote against most of those people getting benefits, if there wasn't so many spongers then maybe UK could afford to pay a decent pension

[sammieuk1]

As you cant live here on a permanent basis or own a house I never consider I live here I'm just a visitor on a long holiday. I will be requiring every penny and every increase by any means of getting it ????

[Will B Good]

56 minutes ago, steve187 said:

making your weekly amount £216.79

How did you arrive at that figure?

[jacko45k]

38 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'd vote against most of those people getting benefits, if there wasn't so many spongers then maybe UK could afford to pay a decent pension

Yes, watching the UK news (as I do) does not bring out the most compassionate thoughts from me too!  

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

I bet if one asked many a person in the UK whether we should get a rise they would say no, and that the money should be utilized domestically.

 

I think you're spot on, in fact some would say that we shouldn't even receive a State Pension, it's been said to me.

 

I also believe that this view is one of the reasons Ministers, of all persuasions, feel comfortable rolling out the same old lame excuse as they've done for years.

 

I do remind people in the UK that I pay hundreds of pounds a month in income tax on my combined pensions, and save the country money by not receiving winter fuel allowance, Christmas bonus, a bus pass and access to the NHS, so I would argue that I pay my fair share to the UK economy.

 

My State Pension is £116 per week, about 5,100 Baht.

[sammieuk1]

50 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

I'd vote against most of those people getting benefits, if there wasn't so many spongers then maybe UK could afford to pay a decent pension

Having got involuntary trapped in the UK for 19 months getting benefits is so near to being impossible I very much doubt there are many spongers left after the draconian sanctions for any infringement are levied .

 

If the rich pay their tax Like Rishi's Mrs should have done for the last 10 years maybe UK could afford to pay a decent pension????

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, theoldgit said:

I think you're spot on, in fact some would say that we shouldn't even receive a State Pension, it's been said to me.

Yes, there will be that perspective... if ever that was to come about many would have to return and then the burden would be back on the UK, on the NHS, and on the benefits system as many would qualify for further monies. 

Not much to go back to there though. 

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

If the rich pay their tax Like Rishi's Mrs should have done for the last 10 years maybe UK could afford to pay a decent pension

As far as we know she has paid all the taxes the law requires of her.... 

[scubascuba3]

5 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Having got involuntary trapped in the UK for 19 months getting benefits is so near to being impossible I very much doubt there are many spongers left after the draconian sanctions for any infringement are levied .

 

If the rich pay their tax Like Rishi's Mrs should have done for the last 10 years maybe UK could afford to pay a decent pension????

If you keep low savings and no property the benefits should flow easy enough, those in the benefit areas will know exactly how to work the system

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

If you keep low savings and no property the benefits should flow easy enough, those in the benefit areas will know exactly how to work the system

Yeah, have plenty children, money will flow in and no need to work. Can go glue yourself to power stations and roads and generally make a nuisance of yourself in the absence of having a productive job!

[Thailand]

32 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

 

I think you're spot on, in fact some would say that we shouldn't even receive a State Pension, it's been said to me.

 

I also believe that this view is one of the reasons Ministers, of all persuasions, feel comfortable rolling out the same old lame excuse as they've done for years.

 

I do remind people in the UK that I pay hundreds of pounds a month in income tax on my combined pensions, and save the country money by not receiving winter fuel allowance, Christmas bonus, a bus pass and access to the NHS, so I would argue that I pay my fair share to the UK economy.

 

My State Pension is £116 per week, about 5,100 Baht.

Paid in full and I get somewhat less than you. Don't see anything ever changing, at least not in my time. And ,yes, I have signed petitions don't wan't it to be said I haven't tried! ????

[Will B Good]

Happy to be corrected, but I consider myself a UK resident and entitled to pension increases. 

 

I own a property in the UK and spend more than 30 days a year in it........anyone else doing the same?

[steve187]

50 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

How did you arrive at that figure?

using my figures above, so 1st year increase of 2.9% of the op's £179.50 would be £5.38, new pension £184.88, 2nd year 2.5% of £184.88 is £4.62 so now pension is £189.50,  3rd year 3% is £5.68 so now pension is £194.18, 4th year 2.6% is £5.04 so now pension is £199.22, 5th year 3.9% is £7.76 so now pension is £206.98, 6th year 2.5% is £5.17 so now pension is £212.15, 7the year (this year) is 3.1% is £6.57 so now pension is £218.71, i was 8p out in my post, op started with a bigger than most weekly pension. i may have something wrong, is so i apologise.

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, steve187 said:

using my figures above, so 1st year increase of 2.9% of the op's £179.50 would be £5.38, new pension £184.88, 2nd year 2.5% of £184.88 is £4.62 so now pension is £189.50,  3rd year 3% is £5.68 so now pension is £194.18, 4th year 2.6% is £5.04 so now pension is £199.22, 5th year 3.9% is £7.76 so now pension is £206.98, 6th year 2.5% is £5.17 so now pension is £212.15, 7the year (this year) is 3.1% is £6.57 so now pension is £218.71, i was 8p out in my post, op started with a bigger than most weekly pension. i may have something wrong, is so i apologise.

Very kind to explain......but how does this tally with the stated UK state pension max currently being £175.20 pw?.......am I missing something (don't be rude...555)

[Henryford]

Be grateful you get 177. After working and paying NI for 35 years i get 131. In a few years with hyperinflation it will be worthless.

[Mike Teavee]

30 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Happy to be corrected, but I consider myself a UK resident and entitled to pension increases. 

 

I own a property in the UK and spend more than 30 days a year in it........anyone else doing the same?

Just staying in the UK for 30 days pa isn't enough to make "Ordinarily Resident", there's a lot more to it than that, check out the Ordinarily Resident tool so see how you fare. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/help-for-nhs-to-recover-costs-of-care-from-visitors-and-migrants/settled-purpose-tool#:~:text=Is their stay in the,in another country of residence.

 

I've been non-resident for 15 years & take great care to maintain this as it lowers the amount of tax on dividend income & means I don't have to pay Capital Gains Tax on any share sales (I will need to pay it when I come to sell my house). 

 

Fortunately my state pension still increases each year as I'm 11 years away from being able to claim it, time will tell if things are still the same then.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

Just staying in the UK for 30 days pa isn't enough to make "Ordinarily Resident", there's a lot more to it than that, check out the Ordinarily Resident tool so see how you fare. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/help-for-nhs-to-recover-costs-of-care-from-visitors-and-migrants/settled-purpose-tool#:~:text=Is their stay in the,in another country of residence.

 

I've been non-resident for 15 years & take great care to maintain this as it lowers the amount of tax on dividend income & means I don't have to pay Capital Gains Tax on any share sales (I will need to pay it when I come to sell my house). 

 

Fortunately my state pension still increases each year as I'm 11 years away from being able to claim it, time will tell if things are still the same then.

God this is all so confusing......I thought being non-resident just meant you didn't have to pay tax to the UK on foreign earnings (or is that what you meant?).....but you are still taxed the same as any UK resident on all UK earnings????

 

 

[Will B Good]

5 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Just staying in the UK for 30 days pa isn't enough to make "Ordinarily Resident", there's a lot more to it than that, check out the Ordinarily Resident tool so see how you fare. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/help-for-nhs-to-recover-costs-of-care-from-visitors-and-migrants/settled-purpose-tool#:~:text=Is their stay in the,in another country of residence.

 

I've been non-resident for 15 years & take great care to maintain this as it lowers the amount of tax on dividend income & means I don't have to pay Capital Gains Tax on any share sales (I will need to pay it when I come to sell my house). 

 

Fortunately my state pension still increases each year as I'm 11 years away from being able to claim it, time will tell if things are still the same then.

Thanks for that, but that relates to NHS care not whether or not your are ordinarily resident of tax purposes.

 

3.2 Second automatic UK test

 

You’ll be UK resident for the tax year if you have, or have had, a home in the UK for all or part of the year and the following all apply:

there is or was at least one period of 91 consecutive days when you had a home in the UK

at least 30 of these 91 days fall in the tax year when you have a home in the UK and you’ve been present in that home for at least 30 days at any time during the year

at that time you had no overseas home, or if you had an overseas home, you were present in it for fewer than 30 days in the tax year

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

God this is all so confusing......I thought being non-resident just meant you didn't have to pay tax to the UK on foreign earnings (or is that what you meant?).....but you are still taxed the same as any UK resident on all UK earnings????

 

 

You are always liable tor Tax on UK earnings (E.g. interest on bank accounts, rental income etc...) irrespective of where you live or your tax status, but being non-resident you don't have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the sale of (non-property) assets & tax on dividend is capped at the amount that's already been paid so should this income push you into a higher tax bracket, you don't need to pay the additional tax [NB I'm not 100% sure on this part anymore as it's a long time since my UK Income would put me in the higher rate tax bracket & they changed the rules a while back],

 

Oh & you're not allowed to put anymore money into any tax free savings (e.g. ISAs) - You can keep what you have but cannot pay anymore into them. 

 

 

[sammieuk1]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

As far as we know she has paid all the taxes the law requires of her.... 

That's ok then makes you wonder what all the fuss is about then or why she now has agreed to give up her non dom status allegedly ???? 

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, Will B Good said:

Thanks for that, but that relates to NHS care not whether or not your are ordinarily resident of tax purposes.

Yes, as we were talking about frozen State Pensions. I figured the Ordinarily Resident test used by DHS would be the more appropriate.  

 

[sammieuk1]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Yeah, have plenty children, money will flow in and no need to work. Can go glue yourself to power stations and roads and generally make a nuisance of yourself in the absence of having a productive job!

You really have no clue as to how the benefits system now works there is a thing called a benefit cap have a go at your theory to see if it still works ???? 

[Hornell]

This is such an old chestnut!  I have been here for 25 years and have been in receipt of UK pension for 12 of them, which was and is 101 quid a week.  I wish I had had a quid for every petition I have signed to rectify the frozen pensions issue and I fully agree with the comments that, as we have paid our contribution in full and we are no longer a drain of the UK economy, we should receive our due pension.  But alas, once something like this has been enacted (thank you Gordon Brown) it is the devil's own job to re-establish it.  Inertia, procrastination and (as some have commented) the feeling that for some reason expatriates don't deserve the increase, abound.  I doubt I shall see this unfair ruling overturned in my lifetime, but I am content to sign each and every petition as it comes my way.

[connda]

If I wasn't married to a Thai national who wishes to live in her home until she dies?  I personally would not be living in Thailand.  Spain, The PI, or Mexico would have been my retirement options.  Hell, even your own country doesn't want you to live here.  So I don't personally see why people actually chose to retire here given the lack of respect that highly nationalistic Thais have for foreigners and expats - and your own country for that matter.
Really - why stay?

Edited April 16, 2022 by connda

[Eff1n2ret]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

If we can reach 10,000 signatures by May 29th then the government must respond to this petition. 

And the response will be a cut and paste of the last time they responded to one of these fatuous petitions, which only give the mandarins an excuse to advise ministers that there is no significant support for any change to the status quo.