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Electric Vehicles in Thailand


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1 hour ago, mistral53 said:

However, with different cars in a household with different decl behavior, the boss of the house made me change the regen to standard, her driving style is not conducive to constantly change to different cars, she just wants it smooth.

is there no memory setting on the seal for different drivers? 

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13 hours ago, DavisH said:

One user on TH Facebook page claimed most of the battery in the performance model was drained from a  290km return trip to Chonburi. This was at speeds of 120-160km/h. I imagine it will be much better at 100km/h

Anything over 100 km/h will start eating battery. I go BKK-Jomtien-BKK regularly in the Atto. Uses about 80% of the battery to do the 270 km round trip at speeds of between 110-125 km/h on the highway. That equates to a real range potential of about 340 km from the 60 kW/h battery (vs official range estimate of 420 km).

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One issue I've been concerned with is how regen braking might affect a person's ability to brake/slow down a vehicle just at the right deceleration speed to avoid rear ending the vehicle in front of you "while also" not slowing down too fast to cause the person behind you to rear-end you.   Or maybe to use an ol' nursery rhyme, "....it's not too hot, it's not too cold, it's just right..."

 

95% of my driving is done in the greater Bangkok metro area on slow and fast moving roads (saw a 100km radius from Bangkok's center)....the land of bumper-to-bumper traffic where distances between vehicles in front and rear of you are almost always at minimum levels whether that bumper-to-bumper traffic is crawling along or moving at a high speed on a highway.   The type of traffic where it can be challenging to maintain a safe following distance especially since many drivers which see any open space ahead in the lanes next to them will quickly cut over/squeeze  into that open space in hopes of gaining even 1 meter of distance and/or reducing their driving time by 1 second to where ever they are going in spite of the safety risks involved in cutting in and out of lanes frequently to gain a little distance.   

 

Makes it hard to maintain safe driving distance so a person often decides not to leave too much space between you and the vehicle ahead in trying to prevent other drivers from unsafely cutting in front of you to fill that safe space....ends up causing you to quickly slow down to create safe spacing again.  And of course if you slow down too fast you run the risk of causing the person behind to kiss your vehicle's butt. 

 

After 15 years of driving in Thailand by far the most typical accident I see in the greater Bangkok area is "rear-end collisions"...very often with 3 or more vehicles involved.   Not deadly collisions...just collisions that cause minor to major vehicle damage.   Just last weekend on a drive on Rama II Road from Bangkok to Samut Songkhran I saw two rear collisions at two locations over 20 minutes.  A 5 vehicle pile-up and a 7 vehicle pile-up in the right/fast lane.  A MG4 Electric was in the 5 vehicle butt kisser pile-up...it was car number 3 in that pile-up.  No serious injuries in either pile-up as far as I could see as I rubber-necked as driving by; just all vehicles incurring BIG baht damage.

 

Each time I see a butt kissing vehicle pile-up I just know it could have been probably been prevented or the number of vehicles involved reduced if the drivers had maintained a safe spacing distance and/or "decelerated/braked" at just the right speed....braking that paid attention to braking enough to avoid kissing the vehicle in front but not braking so fast it ends up not giving the vehicle behind you enough time to stop.  

 

A couple times a year I have to brake suddenly and heavily (a.k.a., butt-puckering braking)...usually at a healthy speed and my brain is trained to also instantly glance into my rear view mirror to gauge how close any vehicle is behind me as I "do not want to stop on a dime...stop so fast too easily avoid hitting the car in front of me" if stopping too fast is probably going to cause the vehicle behind me to hit me.  Yes, I determine how fast to stop based on the vehicle in front "and" vehicle behind me; not just the car in front of me.

 

When I get my BEV (an Atto 3 inbound from the China factory) I will most likely set it to the lowest level of regen braking in order to give "me" the most control in determining how slow or fast I brake.....I'll continue to trust my own defensive braking skills over that of the car's computer which is maybe biased towards squeaking out a little more energy to feed back into the battery versus the safest braking control.   

 

Now to the Atto 3 has two regen braking levels...Standard and High.  Reviews indicate even the High level is provides a pretty minimal (weak) level of braking.....much less than a lot of other EVs.  See one review of the Atto 3 regen braking.

 

Quote

 

Regenerative Braking

BYD has kept it simple with regenerative braking. There are only 2 levels – Standard and High. The Standard level is barely noticeable and if you have the car in this mode, you might end up using the brakes a lot. The High level very much resembles engine braking in IC engine cars. It’s not very intrusive and you won’t be getting a head nod every time you lift off the accelerator. It’s great for driving around in the city as well as on the highways. People wishing to do hypermiling with the Atto 3, will wish for stronger regeneration from the motor.

 

 

I did do a 20Km test drive before ordering and don't know what regen level was set...Standard or High.  And I don't think it can be turn off....it's either Standard or High based on what you select.   Now I didn't do any butt-puckering braking to get a feel for "how much control I have in the braking" but the braking I did do felt OK....it didn't get the feeling of regen braking having too much control.

 

I know a lot of people talk about how great "one pedal" driving is because the regen braking on their EV is so strong...brings the car to a slow stop without even have to press on the brake pedal.  But I wonder if these folks ever have to drive in "very challenging, close quarters" driving and/or have just relinquished braking control to the vehicle's braking computer vs relying on human braking/defensive driving skills. 

 

For me I could care less about a few more kilometers worth of energy being pumped back into by battery due to regen braking if, repeat, if that regen braking reduces braking safety like in butt-puckering stops where a person needs to be super concerned about braking at just the right amount to protect your front "and" rear. 

 

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32 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

is there no memory setting on the seal for different drivers? 

Probably only memory settings for seat and exterior mirror positions.

 

Definitely not for regen.

Edited by macahoom
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13 hours ago, DavisH said:

One user on TH Facebook page claimed most of the battery in the performance model was drained from a  290km return trip to Chonburi. This was at speeds of 120-160km/h. I imagine it will be much better at 100km/h

 

9 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

Anything over 100 km/h will start eating battery. I go BKK-Jomtien-BKK regularly in the Atto. Uses about 80% of the battery to do the 270 km round trip at speeds of between 110-125 km/h on the highway. That equates to a real range potential of about 340 km from the 60 kW/h battery (vs official range estimate of 420 km).

 

I would be more concerned about the number of speeding tickets I'm going to get in the mail from driving at 120-160kmh between Pattaya and Bangkok versus the EV battery range.  ????   

 

And yea, anytime you have the "pedal to the metal", whether dinosaur- or electric fuel-powered a lot more fuel is going to be consumed in maintaining a high speed compared to maintaining a lower speed over the same distance.    

 

The Atto 3 Extended Range (60KWH battery) has a NEDC range 480km.  The NEDC standard is jokingly referred to as Not Even Durn Close although its official name is the New European Driving Cycle....and a WLTP range of 420Km.  The WLTP rating gets closer to reality in comparison to NEDC,  but WLTP still does not represent real world driving range most people will get considering everyone drivers differently, in different environments, etc.   All the various EVs I seen sold in Thailand seem to use the NEDC standard in their primary advertising since it reflects a higher range than WLTP....for this specification higher is better for advertising/sales purposes.   And maybe Thai law requires use of NEDC vs WLTP in sale of vehicles....I don't know.

 

But if using the WLTP standard it's mainly based on speeds far lower than 120-160kmh...based on an average of speed limits a people encounter...low, medium, high, and extra high driving speeds.  

 

Yea, pedal to the metal speeds eat fuel at a far greater rate for the same distance covered.

 

image.png.00d1bd496e260f86169c7f70d72a7e9c.png

 

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28 minutes ago, macahoom said:

I hope you don't mind me saying so, but I think you're overthinking this.

 

You'll quickly get the hang of it and wonder what you were concerned about.

Dont mind at all....time will tell once the wife and I get the Atto and can experience the regen braking for at least a few weeks in our driving  environment...and how it compares to our ICEV braking which we will continue to use also.

 

"Safety First" will carry a lot of weight in our evaluation followed by the overall feel of the braking with electricity regen carrying much less weight.  

 

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38 minutes ago, Pib said:

I would be more concerned about the number of speeding tickets I'm going to get in the mail from driving at 120-160kmh between Pattaya and Bangkok versus the EV battery range.  ????

Yet to get a ticket. Largely because a) I drive slower than in my ICE and b) I got so many tickets on Hwy 7 in the past that I've got a cheat sheet with all the camera locations listed (as per the km marker number on the ticket). Given tickets are only 500 baht whether you're 3 km over the limit or 30 km over, might as well put pedal to metal ...

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23 minutes ago, Pib said:

Dont mind at all....time will tell once the wife and I get the Atto and can experience the regen braking for at least a few weeks in our driving  environment...and how it compares to our ICEV braking which we will continue to use also.

 

"Safety First" will carry a lot of weight in our evaluation followed by the overall feel of the braking with electricity regen carrying much less weight.  

Don't know if anyone pointed this out, but nothing wrong with the car (MG) if regen doesn't kick in ... IF battery topped up.  Had me scratching my head for a while, until my brain cells realized the obvious ????

Edited by KhunLA
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1 hour ago, Pib said:

I did do a 20Km test drive before ordering and don't know what regen level was set...Standard or High.  And I don't think it can be turn off....it's either Standard or High based on what you select.   Now I didn't do any butt-puckering braking to get a feel for "how much control I have in the braking" but the braking I did do felt OK....it didn't get the feeling of regen braking having too much control.

The Atto region is always on. Either Standard or High. Standard is feeble. High really kicks in at highway speeds. Lift off at 80 km/h plus and it slows you down noticeably. Can certainly use it instead of braking ie when approaching slower moving traffic. It won't bring you to a stop.

 

PS - the Atto cruise control is hopeless. 

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2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Talking of which got contacted by SCB yesterday (who I have banked with for over 20 years) about the finance on the Seal.

My BYD local sales told me no finance available for foreigners . Still searching for a Finance bank contact to assist . Might have to be cash purchase. 

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18 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

PS - the Atto cruise control is hopeless. 

Surprising.  MG ZS is pretty good, though using at certain times can be annoying.  Locally I don't use, as usually in 'eco' mode, and it's slow starting & going from a stop.  I like using @ Krung Thep, in stop & go traffic, as I don't need to pay close attention to car in front of me, as it will stop by itself.  Don't need to worry about being an airhead and getting too close to the car in front.

 

Use on highway, set @ 90kph, but do need to keep toe near accelerator, so not to get stuck behind or blocked out by passing cars.  Little acceleration now & then, makes for smooth ride vs the 'safe distance' adjustments it will make in traffic.

 

Yet to trust CC at highway speed, 90kph, coming up on stopped traffic ... unless a car in front of me, that the car will pace with till a stop.  Don't think the sensor has the reach to react to a full stop from 90kph on it's own, and I'm not testing it.

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3 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

The Atto region is always on. Either Standard or High. Standard is feeble. High really kicks in at highway speeds. Lift off at 80 km/h plus and it slows you down noticeably. Can certainly use it instead of braking ie when approaching slower moving traffic. It won't bring you to a stop.

 

PS - the Atto cruise control is hopeless. 

Thanks.

 

And regarding use of cruise control I've don't use it in Thailand (on any vehicle I've owned) since it would always be cutting off from frequent braking in my driving environment where VERY frequent gas pedal/brake pedal back & forth activity is always underway.  Plus, since I rarely even attempt to use cruise control, I partially forget the "exact" steps to follow to effectively use it...have to tinker/experiment with the cruise control knob settings hiding behind the steering wheel.  I don't think I'm an outlier in how/when I use cruise control in Thailand.

 

Cruise control is fine on uncrowded  highways for long drives--but not many such uncrowded highways exist in Thailand.  Plus I don't have any problem in just using the brain-foot combo on long driving trips.


For me cruise control is just one of those options I will rarely or never use again after playing with it a few times after getting the vehicle.  I think cruise control comes on almost every passenger car/truck now days.  But it's just a vehicle capability I don't use.  The brain-foot combo is all I need for cruise control. 

 

I wonder if BYD would give me a lower selling price on the Atto if it could be delivered without cruise control?  ????

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55 minutes ago, Alotoftravel said:

My BYD local sales told me no finance available for foreigners . Still searching for a Finance bank contact to assist . Might have to be cash purchase. 

The loan is in my wife's name but it's my finance their looking at. Have bought a car this way before.

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I don’t use the cruise control because it slows down on bends, what I do is use the speed limiter mode and set it what I want to, say 90, and keep my pedal almost to the metal and it stays at that speed if I need to slow down, just lift up & let regen slow it down and again to speed up just pedal almost to the metal again and it stops when hits 90 

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28 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Regarding regen: I think it would be foolish not to use it at some level.

This Guy reckons it makes up for 25% of his battery energy, the other 75% comes from charging.

 

( I tried to play the video but won’t play now, anyone else ?? )

Yea...that video is acting a little strange for me also.  For me the video's sound starts playing within a few seconds but no video until about 15 seconds later...like listening to a radio.  But once the video appears you can just restart the video to see it from the beginning.

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3 hours ago, Pib said:

Thanks.

 

And regarding use of cruise control I've don't use it in Thailand (on any vehicle I've owned) since it would always be cutting off from frequent braking in my driving environment where VERY frequent gas pedal/brake pedal back & forth activity is always underway.  Plus, since I rarely even attempt to use cruise control, I partially forget the "exact" steps to follow to effectively use it...have to tinker/experiment with the cruise control knob settings hiding behind the steering wheel.  I don't think I'm an outlier in how/when I use cruise control in Thailand.

 

Cruise control is fine on uncrowded  highways for long drives--but not many such uncrowded highways exist in Thailand.  Plus I don't have any problem in just using the brain-foot combo on long driving trips.


For me cruise control is just one of those options I will rarely or never use again after playing with it a few times after getting the vehicle.  I think cruise control comes on almost every passenger car/truck now days.  But it's just a vehicle capability I don't use.  The brain-foot combo is all I need for cruise control. 

 

I wonder if BYD would give me a lower selling price on the Atto if it could be delivered without cruise control?  ????

I seem to be the odd case standing out, I am a total cruise control aficionado - I guess it is a matter of comfort vs. control. The only problem for me are the  motor-sai mosquitos that buzz around like suicidal maniacs, as their presence also triggers the ICC and can lead to sudden unexpected braking.

 

ICC in stop and go traffic, without said mosquitos, is a blessing and makes driving much more relaxed. There is also a lot of work being done to expand the utility of ICC to include over-taking on highways - well, maybe not very useful for roads in Thailand.

 

On a recent trip to Switzerland I also found that ICC doesn't work very well up and down mountain roads with hair pin bends - the car in front disappears in the middle of a tight bend and the car lurches forward because it senses open road......... that part also needs some more tweaking.

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Is labor cost in Thailand really on par with industrialized countries for ceramic coating? I know the quality of a paint correction correlates directly with the skill of the workers deployed, and being skimpy can lead to a long lasting aggravation of swirls in the paint instead of the glitz I fancy - do I miss something here?

 

What are prices you guys are being quoted?

779520FC-E601-417F-BD09-816D5C54B998.jpg

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10 minutes ago, mistral53 said:

Is labor cost in Thailand really on par with industrialized countries for ceramic coating? I know the quality of a paint correction correlates directly with the skill of the workers deployed, and being skimpy can lead to a long lasting aggravation of swirls in the paint instead of the glitz I fancy - do I miss something here?

 

What are prices you guys are being quoted?

779520FC-E601-417F-BD09-816D5C54B998.jpg

 

The target market is rich people with nice cars.

 

We have a seven-year-old Fortuner and the paint (where it is not damaged) looks pretty much like new. 

 

Washed about weekly and waxed a couple times a year. 

 

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

The target market is rich people with nice cars.

 

We have a seven-year-old Fortuner and the paint (where it is not damaged) looks pretty much like new. 

 

Washed about weekly and waxed a couple times a year. 

 

Ditto on my 15 year old Fortuner.

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September EV registrations:

 

IMG_1346.thumb.jpeg.3f27fc8ff6f6eb631c84671da7b548d3.jpeg
 

 

BYD top two places ( might be 3 next month as the Seal seems very popular).

 

Also seems like the MG EP has never ending stock, almost feels like they rushed the release of the MG ES.

Edited by Andrew Dwyer
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1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

BYD top two places ( might be 3 next month as the Seal seems very popular

Thanks @Andrew Dwyer please post again next month.

 

BYD Dolphin and Atto 3 both with over 1,600 and Tesla Model Y 250 and model 3 125. Maybe Tesla is starting to realize they have over priced their cars here.

 

Maybe if they had offered model 3 for ฿1.3m 

 

1708879294_TeslaModel3StdAUS08Apr2023.thumb.png.6950d588bee4203976ac7737e903d69a.png

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30 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Thanks @Andrew Dwyer please post again next month.

 

BYD Dolphin and Atto 3 both with over 1,600 and Tesla Model Y 250 and model 3 125. Maybe Tesla is starting to realize they have over priced their cars here.

 

Maybe if they had offered model 3 for ฿1.3m 

 

1708879294_TeslaModel3StdAUS08Apr2023.thumb.png.6950d588bee4203976ac7737e903d69a.png

Seems like the Tesla price reductions could be in the US also according to The Electric Viking .

 

 

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5 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

September EV registrations:

 

IMG_1346.thumb.jpeg.3f27fc8ff6f6eb631c84671da7b548d3.jpeg
 

 

BYD top two places ( might be 3 next month as the Seal seems very popular).

 

Also seems like the MG EP has never ending stock, almost feels like they rushed the release of the MG ES.

MG EP and MG ES  from a commercial sales point of view are aimed at different markets if you have an employee that requires a company car to carry stock or equipment before MG EP choices were limited storage space wise pickup with lockable slider or pickup with carryboy 

MG see the EP as providing a vehicle that is affordable without the toys

and the ES for anyone that wants the same storage space with the toys

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Insurers in the USA are increasing premiums and with certain models refusing to insure them.  Even in minor accidents the dealerships won't certify the repairs without changing the batteries.  That makes even a minor accident a major claim. The single biggest expense in a new car is the depreciation.  EV's cost more to buy and depreciate faster.  I am going to suggest that as the car approaches the life of the battery its value will plummet close to zero when the cost of replacing the value exceeds the remaining value in the car.  Why purchase a 10 year old EV that you have to replace the battery on versus using that same money to get a newer model year with new technology.  Since depreciation drives the cost of leasing, EV cars despite their high price tag which usually makes for good lease versus buy to avoid the sales tax, they may find that the additional monthly lease payment versus an ICE model just isn't worth it. 

image.png.8ef7511e50e4f7599392ae3efae33881.png

image.png.ca98118cb3decc6fab57034545aa57b8.png

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7 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Seems like the Tesla price reductions could be in the US also according to The Electric Viking .

So Tesla is now selling Model 3s in the USA for ฿1m before incentives. Dropping the price in Thailand from ฿1.759m to ฿1.6m sounds like too little too late.

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Thailand pledges support for ICE vehicle production amidst EV transition.

 

“Thai prime minister highlighted Japan’s position as the top foreign direct investor. However, he raised concerns that the evolving Thai EV market might disadvantage Japanese businesses, given their slower pace in adopting EV technology”

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/thailand-pledges-support-for-ice-vehicle-production-amidst-ev-transition

 

Seems a strange comment consider the massive recent investment by Chinese companies in Thailand.

 

In addition to the fuel subsidy what are they going to do? 

 

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In case you missed it:

 

 

 

BANGKOK (NNT) - A proposal has been raised with the Excise Department, seeking to extend the registration deadline for state-subsidized electric vehicles (EVs).


        Advisor for the development of the excise control system Nattakorn Uthainsut made the proposal to the Excise Department to amend the regulations pertaining to electric vehicle (EV) purchases.


    The proposal aims to extend the registration period for state-subsidized electric vehicles, offering a 150,000 THB discount per vehicle, by an additional month to January 31st, 2024, from the initial deadline of December 31st, 2023. This extension seeks to support EV sales under the EV 3.0 project in the first quarter of 2023, following the completion of the initial phase where the government allocated a fund of 3 billion baht, which expired last month.


    Reports emerged after the cabinet meeting on September 26th, indicating its approval of an additional budget of about one billion baht in the 2023 mid-year budget. This allocation is aimed at boosting the confidence of manufacturers who are eligible under the incentive scheme to invest in electric vehicle production in Thailand between 2024-2025. It also aims to bolster public confidence in purchasing electric vehicles. The cabinet had previously approved a 3 billion baht incentive, offering a discount of 150,000 baht per car, which supports approximately 20,000 electric vehicles.


    Currently, the number of individuals who have purchased electric vehicles and benefited from this scheme has surpassed initial estimates. This has prompted a request for an additional budget of 1 billion baht, as electric vehicle registration under this project has already exceeded 37,000 and could potentially rise to 50,000 vehicles.

Edited by Bandersnatch
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