Electric Vehicles in Thailand

ExpatOilWorker · June 8

15 hours ago, vinny41 said:

However, after trending on social media earlier this morning, the insurance company called to inform that the cost of the repair has been approved. The car is expected to be received in 2-3 days. I admit that it has been a good car all through. But when I encounter such an incident after the repair, I would have thought of selling it and looking for another type of car that is not an electric car to use instead. Due to the current weather, there are frequent floods.

https://www.facebook.com/onenews31

This case highlights the shortfall of the BYD warranty. If the battery casing failed, BYD should have jumped in and replaced it, but at the end the insurance company ended up with the bill.

It is almost as if BYD is doing a California Fitness with their 8 years warranty.

Everything is covered and guaranteed, unless something fails.

Gweiloman · June 9

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

This case highlights the shortfall of the BYD warranty. If the battery casing failed, BYD should have jumped in and replaced it, but at the end the insurance company ended up with the bill.

It is almost as if BYD is doing a California Fitness with their 8 years warranty.

Everything is covered and guaranteed, unless something fails.

Even though it’s called a Seal, I believe it’s sold as a car and not a submarine, thus not meant to be submerged in water.

Does anyone know if the battery casing is advertised as fully waterproof or just water resistant?

KhunLA · June 9

49 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Even though it’s called a Seal, I believe it’s sold as a car and not a submarine, thus not meant to be submerged in water.

Does anyone know if the battery casing is advertised as fully waterproof or just water resistant?

Strange while searching, can't find any IP rating for BYD Blade batteries. Simply stating water resistant on most sites.

vinny41 · June 9

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

This case highlights the shortfall of the BYD warranty. If the battery casing failed, BYD should have jumped in and replaced it, but at the end the insurance company ended up with the bill.

It is almost as if BYD is doing a California Fitness with their 8 years warranty.

Everything is covered and guaranteed, unless something fails.

The car was a seal performance purchased December 2023 Capital value B1,400,000 Insurance initially advised the max they would pay is between B800,000-B900.000 initial repair cost B1,100,000

i have read the break point for repair is between 70-80% of the Capital value which would be between B980,000 and B1,120,000

initially no assistance from dealer or brand with replacement car

As soon as story hit mainstream media damage control went into overdrive

A case of BYD Seal electric car users parked in the rain for 20 minutes. The car has a problem with the battery. Insurance is not accepting a claim-center is not responsible. Latest (8 m. ย. ) At 7:00 pm JS100. Ask Ms. Supinya. The car owner informed that.

"After posting it on social media, it was done quickly. Rewe informed that it will be replaced with a new battery within 7 days and there is a warranty as usual. Meanwhile, the center has temporarily given Atto 3 to use since the afternoon. The insurance department has contacted that they will temporarily send the car to use tomorrow. They have refused, but they have requested travel fee while waiting for the car to be repaired. Actually, 1,400 baht per day, 25 days, total 35,000 baht. The insurance agency said that. Will be bringing a check with a basket tomorrow 09:00am

Condition of deal was delete original social media post ( which is pointless once it was reported by mainstream media

https://www.facebook.com/js100radio

There was a facebook group that tried to shut the story down, not sure why brand protection they were indicating fake news as the owner only had 11 friends therefore must be a fake account

Most Europeans I know closed their facebook accounts 20 years ago

atpeace · June 9

21 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Ohh no! Chinese IP67 is more about ingress than protection.

The real story, why isn't this wet Seal owner sharing a happy story of BYD handing him the keys to a new vehicle?

Surely his car is still under the amazing BYD warranty.

That is a hell of a paper weight. EV manufacturers need to develop an efficient means to repair/replace batteries. This will most definitely happen but at the moment it is the reason I'll stick with ICE.

The situation in its current state is almost comical. I get it - very little demand for such services but without a MUCH better battery repair/replacement solution, I will stay on the sidelines because I'm 99.9% confident that solution will be here in the next 10 years.

matchar · June 9

While the BYD Seal is a fairly nice looking car it has a very low ground clearance and is not at all suitable for Thai roads in the rainy season.

Expect future insurance costs to skyrocket as none of the batteries on newer EV models are repairable.

KhunLA · June 9

19 minutes ago, matchar said:

While the BYD Seal is a fairly nice looking car it has a very low ground clearance and is not at all suitable for Thai roads in the rainy season.

Expect future insurance costs to skyrocket as none of the batteries on newer EV models are repairable.

Wrong ... MG ZS, MG4 & EP/ES are repair/replace just the affected modules.

Would imagine other makers using the same CATL batteries also can replace just the modules needed.

Here's a few more tidbits you may want to Google before posting:

Edited June 9 by KhunLA

ExpatOilWorker · June 9

On 10/23/2023 at 7:55 PM, Pib said:

We've talked a little bit about ground clearance in relation to driving thru water/flooded area. As I read my 200 page Atto 3 manual in prep of getting my car this week the manual gives some conflicting info on the depth of water to avoid. On page 98 is says water depth must not exceed the vehicle's lower edge. The Atto has a ground clearance level of 175mm.

But then just a few paragraphs later on page 99 it says do not drive thru areas where the water level exceeds half the tire height. I'm assuming where they say "tire" they mean the rubber tire "and" steel rim as if it's the rubber tire portion only then that would only be around 50mm. Today I measured the halfway height of an Atto setting in a parking lot (hope the owner didn't see me) and it was 330mm from pavement to center of the rim.

Seems to me half way up the wheel...which is 330mm on the Atto should be the safe limit assuming it was a short distance and you keep moving. In the perfect world where it never rains hard causing standing water on roads the possibly of driving thru water is close to zero, but in the real world and especially in the tropics such as Thailand where rain can quickly cause unavoidable road flooding and big mudpuddles hopefully BEVs with their traction battery on the bottom of the car can handle driving thru water half way up the wheel for short distances especially since the traction battery and high voltage components are suppose to waterproof per IP67 which means waterproof for short periods in up to 1m of water.

See three snapshots below.

The MG promotional video (7:22) in the Mr. DIY video is indicating that "half the tyres" is the center of the axle or 34.7 cm if you have 215 / 55 R18 Front Tyres & 215 / 55 R18 Rear Tyres on your Atto 3.

Pib · June 9

vinny41 · June 9

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

In the comments section there is a comment

VIDEO CUT & CLIP

CallumWK · June 9

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

In the comments section there is a comment

VIDEO CUT & CLIP

Aren't we old enough yet to know that everything the Chinese claim is fake?

I was looking at outdoor solar light the other day, and it said IP65 waterproof, as all those lights from China claim.

Then in the reviews there was a picture from the received item, and it said in big letters IP44.

I have done a lot of business with China in the last 15 years, and I still have to get one single item that has the spec as claimed by the manufacturer

vinny41 · June 9

This should apply to all vehicles ICE and EV

There should be a process in place that all branded vehicle workshop provide a weekly report to the Brand head office of all vehicles that have been in the workshop for more than 5 days it doesn't have to be a detailed report something like waiting for insurance assessor, waiting for insurance decision, waiting for parts, waiting for owner to provide update

there should also be a process to do something if the same status update remains unchanged in 2 consecutive weeks

if the insurance company is one of the Brand's preferred insurance companies Brand should be in a position to ask insurance company what is the delay in approving the case

matchar · June 9

43 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Wrong ... MG ZS, MG4 & EP/ES are repair/replace just the affected modules.

Would imagine other makers using the same CATL batteries also can replace just the modules needed.

Here's a few more tidbits you may want to Google before posting:

All of those are older models, newer EV models use structural batteries which are not repairable.

And I think the MG 4 is not a modular battery.

ExpatOilWorker · June 9

43 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

Aren't we old enough yet to know that everything the Chinese claim is fake?

I was looking at outdoor solar light the other day, and it said IP65 waterproof, as all those lights from China claim.

Then in the reviews there was a picture from the received item, and it said in big letters IP44.

I have done a lot of business with China in the last 15 years, and I still have to get one single item that has the spec as claimed by the manufacturer

That is so true. I got a "fancy" outdoor LED garden lamp, it lasted about half an hour in the Thai rain.

The Chinese are feeding landfills around the world. EVs are not exception and it is starting to show.

KhunLA · June 9

55 minutes ago, matchar said:

All of those are older models, newer EV models use structural batteries which are not repairable.

And I think the MG 4 is not a modular battery.

Repeating your ignorance doesn't make it so. That snapshot is from our 2022 MG ZS promo, and newest version of. Part of the reason we stuck with the ZS ordered, just before the Atto 3 became available, but didn't receive yet.

ZS, EP and probably the ES, (since EP upgrade) are module. MG4, not sure, but think it is.

Stuck with what we knew, since having the ICE version of ZS, and Atto 3 was all new to us.

As I suggested, might want to actually Google info before typing on forums.

Edited June 9 by KhunLA

BKKBike09 · June 9

12 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

I can't 100% conform it, but I think this is a picture of the car before it was moved.

If that's the car, it's pi$$-poor if that's enough depth to kill the battery.

This is my Atto in June last year. No problems then or since. Although it looks like water is over front door sill, none came in. The ground clearance is why I bought Atto since our soi floods regularly.

Edited June 9 by BKKBike09

vinny41 · June 9

33 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Repeating your ignorance doesn't make it so. That snapshot is from our 2022 MG ZS promo, and newest version of. Part of the reason we stuck with the ZS ordered, just before the Atto 3 became available, but didn't receive yet.

ZS, EP and probably the ES, (since EP upgrade) are module. MG4, not sure, but think it is.

Stuck with what we knew, since having the ICE version of ZS, and Atto 3 was all new to us.

As I suggested, might want to actually Google info before typing on forums.

MG4 is not modular has already been discussed on this forum

ZS EP and ES are

its unknown as to why brands haven't developed further models with modular battery

MG4 doesn't have modular batteries and is a cell2pack

according to this page MG 4 battery replacement is B525,000 excluding vat and labour costs

where the MG ZS EV modular cost is B75,000 excluding vat and labour costs

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10161101638446877&set=p.10161101638446877&type=3

Edited June 9 by vinny41
add

ExpatOilWorker · June 9

28 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

If that's the car, it's pi$$-poor if that's enough depth to kill the battery.

This is my Atto in June last year. No problems then or since. Although it looks like water is over front door sill, none came in. The ground clearance is why I bought Atto since our soi floods regularly.

You are a brave man field testing Chinese IP67 rating. Will be interesting to see if your vehicle makes it to the end of the 8 years warranty period. Please keep us posted.

Bandersnatch · June 9

Only Electric Cars suffer from water damage ICE cars are waterproof, it’s obvious, it’s in the name: ICE is frozen water

vinny41 · June 9

13 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Only Electric Cars suffer from water damage ICE cars are waterproof, it’s obvious, it’s in the name: ICE is frozen water

ICE is a short form of Internal Combustion Engine

Submerged Vehicle

As with any vehicle, if your Tesla has been exposed to flooding, extreme weather events or has otherwise been submerged in water (especially in salt water), treat it as if it’s been in an accident and contact your insurance company for support. Do not attempt to operate the vehicle before Tesla Service has inspected it, but you should tow or move it away from any structures.

Note

Damage caused by water is not covered under warranty.

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_au/GUID-7FE78D73-0A17-47C4-B21B-54F641FFAEF4.html#:~:text=Submerged

Edited June 9 by vinny41
add

matchar · June 9

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Repeating your ignorance doesn't make it so. That snapshot is from our 2022 MG ZS promo, and newest version of. Part of the reason we stuck with the ZS ordered, just before the Atto 3 became available, but didn't receive yet.

ZS, EP and probably the ES, (since EP upgrade) are module. MG4, not sure, but think it is.

Stuck with what we knew, since having the ICE version of ZS, and Atto 3 was all new to us.

As I suggested, might want to actually Google info before typing on forums.

Like I said before, newer models do not have modular batteries.

A 2022 MG ZS EV is an old model based on an ICE platform. EP and ES are also based on an older ICE platform.

Perhaps you should take your own advice before posting and stop being so condescending.

BKKBike09 · June 9

43 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You are a brave man field testing Chinese IP67 rating. Will be interesting to see if your vehicle makes it to the end of the 8 years warranty period. Please keep us posted.

Sure. By then you'll be "RetiredExpatOil Worker".

TBH I don't really worry that much about the Atto. Also, they've been on the market now since November 2022 and have sold tens of thousands, many in Bangkok. But I haven't seen any reports of Atto owners whose car has been killed by flood waters. I'm sure if there were you'd be sure to post them.

I suspect my other car is at greater risk ....

vinny41 · June 9

Cell2pack batteries

New Battery Pack Design

Given the challenges of the current battery pack design, many EV and battery manufacturers are eliminating modules entirely and directly bond batteries to the cooling plate. This new module-free approach, referred to as “Cell-to-Pack” (CTP), reportedly increases volume-utilization space from 15-50%, depending upon battery cell design. Moreover, the number of parts is claimed to be reduced up to 40%.

Benefits of Cell-to-Pack Adhesives

Increases volume-utilization space from 15-50%

Reduces the number of parts up to 40%

Uses less expensive, lower energy density cells given the extra space

Improves battery pack energy density

Decreases heating or cooling loads by the cooling plate

Provides high levels of adhesion at 85°C and 85% RH

Lowers manufacturing costs for electric vehicle OEMs

https://www.parker.com/us/en/divisions/assembly-and-protection-solutions-division/resources/next-generation-cell-to-pack-battery-configurations.html#:~:text=This new module-free approach,be reduced up to 40%.

KhunLA · June 9

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

MG4 is not modular has already been discussed on this forum

ZS EP and ES are

its unknown as to why brands haven't developed further models with modular battery

MG4 doesn't have modular batteries and is a cell2pack

according to this page MG 4 battery replacement is B525,000 excluding vat and labour costs

where the MG ZS EV modular cost is B75,000 excluding vat and labour costs

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10161101638446877&set=p.10161101638446877&type=3

KhunLA · June 9

17 minutes ago, matchar said:

Like I said before, newer models do not have modular batteries.

A 2022 MG ZS EV is an old model based on an ICE platform. EP and ES are also based on an older ICE platform.

Perhaps you should take your own advice before posting and stop being so condescending.

And you perhaps shouldn't generalize and state 'none' ... just a thought :coffee1:

3 hours ago, matchar said:

While the BYD Seal is a fairly nice looking car it has a very low ground clearance and is not at all suitable for Thai roads in the rainy season.

Expect future insurance costs to skyrocket as none of the batteries on newer EV models are repairable.

Just a guess, but I'm sure some EV Sparkys out there will be fixing packs as an after market/warranty service.

Of course that's if ever needed, as 500k - 1 million miles/kms seems to be a reality with newer battery packs. We're expecting not less than 500k kms out of ours, if the rest of the car lasts that long, about 25 years, if we keep driving at 20k kms a year.

ExpatOilWorker · June 9

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

Sure. By then you'll be "RetiredExpatOil Worker".

TBH I don't really worry that much about the Atto. Also, they've been on the market now since November 2022 and have sold tens of thousands, many in Bangkok. But I haven't seen any reports of Atto owners whose car has been killed by flood waters. I'm sure if there were you'd be sure to post them.

I suspect my other car is at greater risk ....

I will be DeadExpatOilWorker by then 😁.

I think you are right about your Atto 3, just don't take the IP67 rating for granted, just because the manual says so.

Your wish for a flooded Atto 3 is my command.

ExpatOilWorker · June 9

On 4/6/2024 at 1:44 AM, vinny41 said:

Compare the price of Chinese electric cars at the time of launch VS now, how much is it reduced to in 2024? Is it more economical to buy first or buy later?

https://droidsans.com/ev-price-compare-between-launch-time-vs-now/

CHANGAN Deepal offering Free first class insurance for 2 years

Sadly there was never an update on the above list of EV discounts, but as far as the Chinese are concerned, the price war is not over yet.

Bandersnatch · June 9

Road Tax, Servicing Costs and Fuel costs for EVs in Thailand

We have already discussed insurance costs for EVs in Thailand and thanks to all those who shared their quotes, do please keep them coming.

The example I will be sharing is my 2023 BYD Seal AWD Performance and I will be comparing it to my previous ICE Car a Mitsibishi Triton 4 door.

Fuel Costs:

The Triton: ฿5,000 per month. The Triton was a thirsty beast. I should point out that Surin has an excellent 4 lane ring road system with protected left turns at most junction lights, meaning that if you turn left at every junction you never have to stop at any lights. It does mean that you can clock up the miles as nearly all driving is done at highway speeds.

BYD Seal: ฿0 per month. Apart from the first week of ownership when I did some test charges on different chargers I have not paid for any driving as it has been 100% charged from excess home solar production.

Road Tax:

Triton ฿4,761

BYD Seal ฿380

Servicing:

BYD: ฿0 per year

My BYD comes with 8 years of completely free servicing (parts and labour) I have had only one service and it cost nothing. I watched the guy do the service from the customer lounge and it seemed to mainly consist of checking torque setting on some key bolts.

Triton: ฿9,283 per year

Mitsu insisted on 6 monthly servicing to maintain the warranty. You can see from the invoice that the biggest ticket items are #6 + #7 both for engine oil.

Edited June 9 by Bandersnatch
Miscalculation

In the jungle · June 9

4 hours ago, CallumWK said:

Aren't we old enough yet to know that everything the Chinese claim is fake?

I was looking at outdoor solar light the other day, and it said IP65 waterproof, as all those lights from China claim.

Then in the reviews there was a picture from the received item, and it said in big letters IP44.

I have done a lot of business with China in the last 15 years, and I still have to get one single item that has the spec as claimed by the manufacturer

I like the way all Chinese torches/flashlights are at least a billion lumens.

In the jungle · June 9

36 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Road Tax, Servicing Costs and Fuel costs for EVs in Thailand

We have already discussed insurance costs for EVs in Thailand and thanks to all those who shared their quotes, do please keep them coming.

The example I will be sharing is my 2023 BYD Seal AWD Performance and I will be comparing it to my previous ICE Car a Mitsibishi Triton 4 door.

Fuel Costs:

The Triton: ฿5,000 per month. The Triton was a thirsty beast. I should point out that Surin has an excellent 4 lane ring road system with protected left turns at most junction lights, meaning that if you turn left at every junction you never have to stop at any lights. It does mean that you can clock up the miles as nearly all driving is done at highway speeds.

BYD Seal: ฿0 per month. Apart from the first week of ownership when I did some test charges on different chargers I have not paid for any driving as it has been 100% charged from excess home solar production.

Road Tax:

Triton ฿4,761

BYD Seal ฿380

Servicing:

BYD: ฿0 per year

My BYD comes with 8 years of completely free servicing (parts and labour) I have had only one service and it cost nothing. I watched the guy do the service from the customer lounge and it seemed to mainly consist of checking torque setting on some key bolts.

Triton: ฿9,283 per year

Mitsu insisted on 6 monthly servicing to maintain the warranty. You can see from the invoice that the biggest ticket items are #6 + #7 both for engine oil.

The solar system was free?

It seems to be in your calculation.

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