Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[transam]

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

Seems I must have missed all your constructive comments somewhere. Do you have a link to one?

So no constructive comment then...?  🤔

[transam]

It would seem Thai banks are fed up with the walk-ers, though not only EV's..........

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/motoring/2860518/thai-ev-sales-to-miss-target-as-banks-curb-loans-on-debt-risk

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Seems I must have missed all your constructive comments somewhere. Do you have a link to one?

The technology he knows is obsolete but he can’t bring himself to face up to it so all he can really do is post nonsensical stuff.

 

 I was wondering what it is that some have against EVs. Unlike with say diesel vehicles which can emit foul toxic fumes, EVs should be neutral at worst. Then I realised that it’s because the best EVs in the world are made in China and that’s why there are EV haters.

[transam]

51 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

The technology he knows is obsolete but he can’t bring himself to face up to it so all he can really do is post nonsensical stuff.

 

 I was wondering what it is that some have against EVs. Unlike with say diesel vehicles which can emit foul toxic fumes, EVs should be neutral at worst. Then I realised that it’s because the best EVs in the world are made in China and that’s why there are EV haters.

You still have nothing but guesswork and assumption then...........🤔

[carlyai]

3 hours ago, transam said:

So, are THAI (not farangy) EV buyers off loading them, didn't like the fuss of getting them to actually move, the gas station was easy, where ever you were.........?    🤔

I've been reading a few (all) Thai Sealion 7 FB pages lately and 1 sort of complaint only -seems the front collision camera is an add on, but the Sealion 07 is installed (well I think that's what I read).

Everyone happy.

[Pib]

5 hours ago, transam said:

It would seem Thai banks are fed up with the walk-ers, though not only EV's..........

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/motoring/2860518/thai-ev-sales-to-miss-target-as-banks-curb-loans-on-debt-risk

 

 

Some partial quotes from above Bangkok Bank Sep 2024 article...and  I have added some comments.

 

Quote

New battery-powered passenger EV registrations are seen at 80,000 units this year, said Suraj Sangsnit, president of the Electric Vehicle Association of Thailand. That’s below the 150,000 units forecast by the group earlier this year. The tally is still about 5% more than over 76,000 units sold in 2023.

Guess the Electric Vehicle Assn of Thailand needs to get a new crystal ball as that 150K forecast was surely a WAG.   But at least the actual tally for 2024 may beat 2023 by a little (i.e., growth over last year).

 

 

Quote

Thailand’s auto industry group has cut its full-year production forecast of all vehicles to 1.7 million units this year from 1.9 million units predicted earlier, citing a “worrisome” 50% refusal rate for auto loans. Domestic automobile sales have fallen 24% in the first seven months of the year, according to data from the Federation of Thai Industries (FTI). Sales of EVs have so far buckled the trend to post a 13% growth during the same period.  

ICEV sales are being impacted more than EV sales.  I don't blame the bank's for rejecting loan applications which doesn't meet their income and debt level requirements....ability to repay....etc. 

 

 

Quote

“It’s not that demand is declining, but when you can’t get loans approved, then it’s game over,” said Krisda Utamote, honourary adviser at the EV association. “Our economic situation isn’t looking good. EV sales are at least still up this year, while it’s all decline for the other types of vehicles.” 

ICEV sales are being impacted more than EV sales.   

 

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

 

 

Some partial quotes from above Bangkok Bank Sep 2024 article...and  I have added some comments.

 

Guess the Electric Vehicle Assn of Thailand needs to get a new crystal ball as that 150K forecast was surely a WAG.   But at least the actual tally for 2024 may beat 2023 by a little (i.e., growth over last year).

 

 

ICEV sales are being impacted more than EV sales.  I don't blame the bank's for rejecting loan applications which doesn't meet their income and debt level requirements....ability to repay....etc. 

 

 

ICEV sales are being impacted more than EV sales.   

 

There was 76,314 EV registrations in Thailand for the whole of 2023 , the number of EV sales is approx 90,000

as we can see by Autolife reporting January 8th 2024 which doesn't include EV sales made in December 2023

https://autolifethailand.tv/total-ev-bev-register-2023-thailand/

The registration of electric vehicles in Thailand has seen a remarkable increase, quadrupling to almost 90,000 units per year, which accounts for around 10% of the country’s total vehicle sales

https://www.thailand-business-news.com/china/142274-chinese-automakers-are-ramping-up-electric-vehicle-production-in-thailand

[Pib]

10 hours ago, vinny41 said:

There was 76,314 EV registrations in Thailand for the whole of 2023 , the number of EV sales is approx 90,000

as we can see by Autolife reporting January 8th 2024 which doesn't include EV sales made in December 2023

https://autolifethailand.tv/total-ev-bev-register-2023-thailand/

 

 

Well, if I understand above correctly and considering that the great majority of vehicle buys in Thailand are financed (and just for discussion let's assume all 76K of above mentioned EV registrations for 2023 were financed) then dividing 76,314 registrations by 90,000 reported sales gives almost a 85% loan approval rate which means a15% loan rejection rate.    A loan rejection rate far lower than around 50% that some industry groups keep whining about.  

 

Now maybe EV buyers are better off financially and experience a much lower loan rejection rate than many ICEV buyers.   

 

Maybe a lot of the loan rejections occur for income people (let's say below Bt20K/month) who are trying to buy an ICEV pickup truck or  compact car....lower income folks who simply don't consider buying an EV for whatever reasons.

 

I feel if the banks would release detailed data on loan rejection rates we would see the great, great bulk of rejections apply to lower income applicants with the great, great majority trying to buy a ICEV vehicle such as a pickup truck or compact car.  But that's just a gut feeling I have....can't provide any reference....just the feeling I get from the nature of numerous media releases this year and my own Thai in-laws.

 

While loan rejection is definitely impacting vehicle sales (EV and ICEV) the other two key factors of high household debt level and people being gun-shy of buying right now due to the ongoing vehicles price-war may be bigger factors in comparison to the loan rejection factor as to why vehicles sales have been generally sluggish for the last two years.

 

[Gweiloman]

21 hours ago, transam said:

You still have nothing but guesswork and assumption then...........🤔

Of course only you know why dislike EVs as much as you do but as you have not made a single substantive point on why this is so, we can only guess and assume. Your hatred of China is well known, the frequency with which you bandy about terms like red, commie etc. So it goes to follow (for educated minds of course) that you are more likely than not, to dislike any products being made in that country. 
 

There are lots of reasons to dislike ICEVs such as the air pollution caused, especially by poorly maintained diesel vehicles, the huge number of moving parts, the amount of servicing and maintenance needed to keep it running. On the other hand, there isn’t really anything to dislike about EVs. Sure, some will inevitably bring up the relative lack of range, the time it takes to recharge etc. However these are issues that seem to matter only to anti-EVers. EV owners live very easily with these issues and being able to charge at home is in actuality a benefit and an advantage over an ICEV.

 

If you want to be taken seriously, make one or two posts with actual content…

[transam]

1 minute ago, Gweiloman said:

Of course only you know why dislike EVs as much as you do but as you have not made a single substantive point on why this is so, we can only guess and assume. Your hatred of China is well known, the frequency with which you bandy about terms like red, commie etc. So it goes to follow (for educated minds of course) that you are more likely than not, to dislike any products being made in that country. 
 

There are lots of reasons to dislike ICEVs such as the air pollution caused, especially by poorly maintained diesel vehicles, the huge number of moving parts, the amount of servicing and maintenance needed to keep it running. On the other hand, there isn’t really anything to dislike about EVs. Sure, some will inevitably bring up the relative lack of range, the time it takes to recharge etc. However these are issues that seem to matter only to anti-EVers. EV owners live very easily with these issues and being able to charge at home is in actuality a benefit and an advantage over an ICEV.

 

If you want to be taken seriously, make one or two posts with actual content…

Guessing again, I don't dislike EV's, I just ask questions a make points, if people here want to go on a stomping fit because of it, up to you/them............🤔

 

I didn't much like coal fires, but it was an era we went through, same as petrol and diesel cars now, they will come to an end as did the coal fires, but doesn't stop me asking questions and making points now.....😉

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Guessing again, I don't dislike EV's, I just ask questions a make points, if people here want to go on a stomping fit because of it, up to you/them............🤔

 

I didn't much like coal fires, but it was an era we went through, same as petrol and diesel cars now, they will come to an end as did the coal fires, but doesn't stop me asking questions and making points now.....😉

As far as I can recall, all your posts have been anti EV to some extent or other. But hey, if you say you don’t dislike EVs…

[cdnvic]

A post containing a personal attack and a reply quoting it were removed.

[vinny41]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Well, if I understand above correctly and considering that the great majority of vehicle buys in Thailand are financed (and just for discussion let's assume all 76K of above mentioned EV registrations for 2023 were financed) then dividing 76,314 registrations by 90,000 reported sales gives almost a 85% loan approval rate which means a15% loan rejection rate.    A loan rejection rate far lower than around 50% that some industry groups keep whining about.  

 

Now maybe EV buyers are better off financially and experience a much lower loan rejection rate than many ICEV buyers.   

 

Maybe a lot of the loan rejections occur for income people (let's say below Bt20K/month) who are trying to buy an ICEV pickup truck or  compact car....lower income folks who simply don't consider buying an EV for whatever reasons.

 

I feel if the banks would release detailed data on loan rejection rates we would see the great, great bulk of rejections apply to lower income applicants with the great, great majority trying to buy a ICEV vehicle such as a pickup truck or compact car.  But that's just a gut feeling I have....can't provide any reference....just the feeling I get from the nature of numerous media releases this year and my own Thai in-laws.

 

While loan rejection is definitely impacting vehicle sales (EV and ICEV) the other two key factors of high household debt level and people being gun-shy of buying right now due to the ongoing vehicles price-war may be bigger factors in comparison to the loan rejection factor as to why vehicles sales have been generally sluggish for the last two years.

 

August 2023 

In the beginning, EV buyers were high-purchasing power buyers, resulting in easy approval for EV buyers in the beginning. However, the group has now expanded to include combustion engine users in the energy-saving (eco-car) and multi-purpose (SUV) groups, some of whom have been affected by high household debt and have an impact on loan approval.

Mr. Bao Zhuangfei, General Manager of NETA Auto (Thailand) Co., Ltd., revealed that in the past 2-3 months, the electric vehicle (EV) market in Thailand has slowed down significantly due to the high household debt situation and the continuously increasing non-performing loans rate in the system. As a result, financial institutions have become stricter, causing NETA's loan rejection rate, which is normally 5-10%, to increase to 20%.

https://www.pptvhd36.com/automotive/news/203375

I don't recall any major price reductions on EV's in 2023 other than B50K reduction on Neta V in October 2023

I assume that reduction was due to Neta V sales going to Byd Dolphin in September and October 2023

Registrations numbers for Neta V dipped in September and October 2023 after Dolphin was launched July 2023

https://autolifethailand.tv/total-ev-bev-register-2023-thailand/

If we look at EV prices for 2023 ranging from B400k to B1.6million from the major EV brands in Thailand

and split the sectors into 2 sections

B700K and below

B700K and above

Neta V and Dolphin have a combined market share of 29% of all EV's registered in 2023

The Bank of Thailand explains that the reason for the decline in car loans is due to the deteriorating quality of borrowers, not banks becoming stricter.

. According to the latest data, the 1.55% decrease in car hire-purchase loans in Q1/2024 slowed down more than other types of loans. It was also found that loan rejections increased. However, this is believed to be due to the quality of the borrowers themselves, not due to the tighter lending of banks.

Meanwhile, used cars are under great pressure. The falling prices of used cars have caused the market to stagnate because there is usually a group of buyers who buy new cars by trading in their old cars to get money to pay off the new car. Therefore, when used cars are sold at low prices, buyers have to pay more to buy new cars. Therefore, the ability to buy new cars is reduced.

https://www.infoquest.co.th/2024/409298

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Bjørn is back in Thailand, here’s his Ioniq 5 testing.

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Part 2

 

 

[KhunLA]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Bjørn is back in Thailand, here’s his Ioniq 5 testing.

 

 

 

That's funny, guess he didn't update, download new EV Station Pluz app.

[Andrew Dwyer]

13 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

That's funny, guess he didn't update, download new EV Station Pluz app.

So funny when he loses it with the apps.

Crossing the highway on foot at the U turn in search of food 😂😂

[Pib]

41 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Bjørn is back in Thailand, here’s his Ioniq 5 testing.

 

 

 

In the last half of his video he tried to use a "Shell" charger in the ReverSharger app and when scanning the charger's QR code there was just buffering....couldn't get the charger going.   I have used/attempted to use "Shell" chargers in the ReverSharger app 4 times at 3 different locations.  Each of those 4 uses was nothing but problems such as the app not recognizing the charger/QR code....or I was able to get the charging to start but when trying to stop the charging short of 100% it was very hard for the app to recognize the charger's QR code or after repeated scans of the chargers QR code where apparently nothing was happening until after around 3 to 5 minutes the charger would then stop the charging....it was like the app was able to scan the QR but then the charger took 3 to 5 minutes to respond and stop the charging.   Based on my experience I can ""not recommend those charging locations identified in the ReverSharger app with the Shell icon (i.e., looks like seashell) as I had nothing but problems...and Byorn had his problem also with the Shell charger.  Like I said, I've tried/used 4 Shell chargers at 3 locations.....all had similar problems.  And when driving by a Shell charger I rarely see people using them....maybe because they can be a pain to use due to "non-response, slow response, etc."

 

And poor Bjorn may have really been trying to use  the PTT charger during those 12 hours or so between the evening of 2 Dec and morning of 3 Dec that PTT Station Pluz was doing the transition from the old app to the new app. I know he added some text to the video saying he attempted the charge 4 days before 2 Dec.  But what Bjorn experienced is what was happening during the late evening 2 Dec to early morning 3 Dec old app to new app transition period.   During that period chargers no longer appeared in the old app as it was being retired and even in the new app they would not appear until just before 8am 3 Dec when the new app went fully active.  Out with the old app, in with the new app.

 

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Not much about the car unfortunately,  too much struggling to charge ….. and eating as usual !

[Pib]

53 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Part 2

 

 

Little info provided regarding the EV; mostly a video of his visit to Thailand on this trip.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

And poor Bjorn may have really been trying to use  the PTT charger during those 12 hours or so between the evening of 2 Dec and morning of 3 Dec that PTT Station Pluz was doing the transition from the old app to the new app. I know he added some text to the video saying he attempted the charge 4 days before 2 Dec.  But what Bjorn experienced is what was happening during the late evening 2 Dec to early morning 3 Dec old app to new app transition period.   During that period chargers no longer appeared in the old app as it was being retired and even in the new app they would not appear until just before 8am 3 Dec when the new app went fully active.  Out with the old app, in with the new app.

And if he was using the "new" app which was available for download "before" the morning of 3 Dec when it would go fully operational then he would not have seen any chargers in the new app until early 3 Dec....and he did add some text to his video saying the video was made 4 days earlier.

 

Now if he had been using the old/to be retired app which was still fully operational until late 2 Dec then he could have charged.

 

Yeap...he probably installed/was using the new app "before" it went fully operational the morning of 3 Dec.

[Gweiloman]

10 hours ago, Pib said:

And if he was using the "new" app which was available for download "before" the morning of 3 Dec when it would go fully operational then he would not have seen any chargers in the new app until early 3 Dec....and he did add some text to his video saying the video was made 4 days earlier.

 

Now if he had been using the old/to be retired app which was still fully operational until late 2 Dec then he could have charged.

 

Yeap...he probably installed/was using the new app "before" it went fully operational the morning of 3 Dec.

The way I understood it, he actually was trying to charge 4 days after the upgrade but was still using the outdated app which doesn’t show any more stations.

 

I wonder what was the problem he faced at the PEA Volta charger. He didn’t elaborate.

 

Nevertheless, an interesting video. I would have bought the Ioniq if it had been available when I was looking but the infotainment features seem to leave a lot to be desired.

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

... I would have bought the Ioniq if it had been available when I was looking but the infotainment features seem to leave a lot to be desired ...

 

i was originally planning to buy the ioniq 6, but after a thorough review, i decided against it:

the nearest hyundai dealer is a 7-hour round trip from me, and compared to other ev manufacturers, hyundai's commitment to the thai market seems rather modest. additionally, i prefer (if possible) not to buy a bev with an mnc battery  ...

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

The way I understood it, he actually was trying to charge 4 days after the upgrade but was still using the outdated app which doesn’t show any more stations.

 

I wonder what was the problem he faced at the PEA Volta charger. He didn’t elaborate.

 

 

Yea, you are right regarding the PTT app/charger as the text on the video states (1st snapshot below) he attempted his charge 4 days after the transition from the old app to the new app which occurred over a 13 hour period between 2 Dec at 7pm to 3 Dec at 8am.   Anytime after 2 Dec 7pm (like him making the trip/video 4 days after that 2-3 Dec app transition)  if he was using the old app a person would experience what Bjorn experienced which was no chargers being displayed...unable to start a charge.   And where he shows him "opening" the app, yeap, that's the old app based on me opening both the old and new app a few minutes ago to see what they look like when first opening the apps.

 

Bjorn just missed the memo which if I remember right came via pop-up message on the old app "and" I think also via email since the old app used a person's email address as their logon User ID.  The new app does not use a person's email but their mobile number.   I got the memo in late Nov.    I loaded the new app 26 Nov...notice no chargers were displayed....I thought maybe something was wrong in my account setup.....I sent PTT Customer Service an email identifying my problem....they responded with about an hour saying the new app would not show any chargers until the morning of 3 Dec.  Then for the old app a person would still be able to logon until 31 Dec for historical purposes but couldn't be used to start a charging session anymore (see snapshot 3).

 

And around noon time on 3 Dec after the transition to the new PTT app I stopped at a PTT charger really close to my home just to confirm the new app worked.  As I pulled into the 2nd slot a person in the 1st slot was having problems in getting it to work...the app world recognize the charger...whenever scanning the charger's QR code it would say wrong charger.  I then tried and was getting the same problem but notice whenever I would scan the QR code for DC Charger #2 the app would respond with it DC Charger #1...and vice versa if scanning the QR code for DC Charger #1 it would respond with DC Charger #2.  So, as a test we both tried hooking Charger #1 cable to the car but scanning the QR code for Charger #2....but the charging still wouldn't work.  And if scanning the "AC" Charger QR it would responded with a weird number. 

 

About that time a PTT employee came over to assist with/see first hand the problem both of us were having.  The first thing she want to confirm if we were using the new app, which she called the "blue" app because the icon of the new app on your phone is a blue color where the old app is a white color (see 2nd snapshot below).....we were both using the new (blue) app.  She called some PTT phone number and was told the new app was having issues with the "charger database that identified all the chargers....link QR code on the charger to the actual charger location).   At that point we both left.  I have seen people using the charger since so I guess PTT probably got that issue fixed sometime on 3 Dec.  

 

Anyway, Bjorn just missed the memo regarding the old to new app transition....he was using the old app after it could no longer be used to start a charging session.

 

I don't know what was happening with the PEA app.  Plus in his video when it suddenly started working I'm not sure if it just started working while he was still complaining OR he actually unplugged & tried again and this time it worked properly.  I got the impression from his video he "may/could  have" attempted it a second time versus just a long delay in his initial charging attempt.    In a lot of his videos he likes to dramatize things by leaving  out bits of info which would have explained there was no real drama at all....guess he thinks more people will like his videos and view his other videos if they come with some "drama." 

 

1st Snapshot...from the video

 

 

2nd Snapshot....show icons of PTT old and new apps.  If you got the old (white) icon although you can still log into the app as of the date/time of this post (and apparently thru 31 Dec 2024) you can not use it to start a charging session after 2 Dec 7pm as you will not be able to see any chargers.  

 

 

 

Snapshot 3...a 26 Nov email from PTT Customer Support in response to an email I sent them asking why the "new" (blue) app does not show any charger locations.  Basically the PTT email says the chargers will not appear in the new app until the morning of 3 Dec...and also with the old (white) app a person will still be able to logon thru 31 Dec to see/download historical data. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[impulse]

If you wanna see some EV Eye candy, look up the Yangwang U9.  I think I saw one at the EV car show in Bangkok a few weeks ago at QSNCC.  It was gorgeous, and it had a 0-100km/hr time of around 2 seconds.  

 

At the time, I didn't recognize the name Yangwang, so I didn't pay a $250K USD car much attention.  Yesterday found out that's the BYD premium line, along the lines of Lexus/Toyota.  And it's a production car, not some fly by night prototype.

 

I'm still not in the market for a $250K supercar, but if the doctors gave me a year to live, I'd buy one tomorrow and have some fun.

 

 

The UK EV show ("Fully Charged", I think) compared it favorably to some $3 million supercars.  That may be hyperbole, or it may not.

 

 

 

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

If you wanna see some EV Eye candy, look up the Yangwang U9.  I think I saw one at the EV car show in Bangkok a few weeks ago at QSNCC.  It was gorgeous, and it had a 0-100km/hr time of around 2 seconds.  

 

At the time, I didn't recognize the name Yangwang, so I didn't pay a $250K USD car much attention.  Yesterday found out that's the BYD premium line, along the lines of Lexus/Toyota.  And it's a production car, not some fly by night prototype.

 

I'm still not in the market for a $250K supercar, but if the doctors gave me a year to live, I'd buy one tomorrow and have some fun.

 

 

The UK EV show ("Fully Charged", I think) compared it favorably to some $3 million supercars.  That may be hyperbole, or it may not.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeap....made by BYD.   And I bet it comes with one year free insurance in case you have an accident before the one year is up the doctors gave you to live.  😜   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangwang_U9

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

 

Yeap....made by BYD.   And I bet it comes with one year free insurance in case you have an accident before the one year is up the doctors gave you to live.  😜   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangwang_U9

 

 

Just out of curiosity, is that 7:17.9 a good time?  The 243 MPH is impressive...

 

With a motor on each wheel, it can also turn around in its own footprint.  Which is more of a curiosity to me than a useful function.  Still interesting. 

 

Their U8 SUV is rated to float and drive for up to 30 minutes in deep water.  Another interesting but not really useful function for most of us.  Still- if you get caught in one of Thailand's floods...

 

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Just out of curiosity, is that 7:17.9 a good time?  The 243 MPH is impressive...

 

 

 

According to these various track records it's definitely a good time.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nürburgring#

[carlyai]

One of the Thai guys on a Sealion 7 BYD forum posted this pic.

It is a bolt sticking out near the accelorator pedal.

They said it was common with all Sealion 7s.

I can't believe that.

 

[motdaeng]

27 minutes ago, carlyai said:

One of the Thai guys on a Sealion 7 BYD forum posted this pic.

It is a bolt sticking out near the accelorator pedal.

They said it was common with all Sealion 7s.

I can't believe that.

 

that doesn't look right ...

... can you share the forum (facebook?) link ... thanks ....