Can tourists still pet tigers in Thailand, and where is closest to Bangkok?

[Mac Mickmanus]

15 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

It's not "Thais" who are wrong - it is you.

Why am I in the wrong ?

(Spare me the armature psychological assessment and just explain why you think I am wrong )

[Thunglom]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Spare me the armature psychological assessment

Have to say your words quoted here sum you up better than I could.

[Thunglom]

Thailand’s cruel and illegal tiger zoos. Here are some references to give people an idea of how the illegal tiger trade is intrinsically part of the public zoo industry in Thailand.

Thailand is a signatory of CITES – (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora). It is an international to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival. All zoos ae meant to keep a genetic record of their tigers – but they don’t always do this, because if they did it would show where they really came from. Apart from the odd “show-case”, enforcement is just not happening

 

No cubs are ever rescued from the wild it’s a myth – if they are found, they are the result of poaching. A huge and increasing international industry

There are only about 200 tigers in Thailand and the surrounding forests (the WFC being the main area) and as the apex predator they are a crucial part of the eco-system and their natural survival is an indicator of how well that system is functioning. 

 

Most tiger zoos are just a disguise for tiger farming, which in itself increasingly endangers tigers in the wild by increasing their value and encouraging the trade for parts in TCM. Furthermore, it creates a false sense of complacency amongst the public. Who believe that somehow a captive tiger is a sign the species is OK. The added value of  genuine wild tigers and the huge potential for big profits means that poaching is ever more likely. Whilst captive tigers remain profitable way of exploiting the animals a never ending supply of cubs is required to attract the public. To satisfy this, speed breeding programs are engaged in so-called zoos and tiger mothers in the wild are killed so their carcasses can be butchered and sold on and their cubs can be kidnapped and smuggled for selling as public attractions. Once tigers become too big/old to handle (even with drugs) they are hidden from view and either left to die or butchered for the TCM market.

 

Many zoos make liberal use of words like “rescue”, “sanctuary” and “conservation” to justify their existence to a gullible public but a look behind the scenes will quickly reveal how hollow these claims are s their practices and supply of animals just doesn’t support this.

 

Any claims that tigers can be returned to the wild are totally unsupported by any reality. Most of the captive tigers in Thailand are either  too inbred or hybrids and not only couldn’t survive in the wild but would quickly ruin the gene-pool.

Tigers in the wild are facing difficulties from loss of habitat, poaching and poaching of prey, but one of the most insidious of threats to their survival is the ignorance displayed by many on this thread, that permits activities that just continue to increase the pressure on tigers and the environment in which they live.

 

 

People need to educate themselves on the ecology and wildlife conservation issues of Thailand – below are just a few concerned with the Tiger trade and how zoos, far from helping tigers are hindering their survival.

 

 

EXPOSED! Thailand’s Tiger Kingdom Is No Sanctuary for Animals!

https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/exposed-thailands-tiger-kingdom-sanctuary-or-sham/

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/police-arrest-tiger-cub-smugglers-in-central-thailand

 

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/4/12/18306590/tiger-selfie-thailand-tiger-kingdom

 

https://eia-international.org/news/the-thai-zoo-where-tigers-were-seized-has-been-on-the-radar-of-authorities-for-illegal-wildlife-trade/

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38030482

 

https://tigers.panda.org/news_and_stories/stories/tiger_farms/

 

https://tigers.panda.org/?2394466/WWF-commends-closure-of-Thai-zoo-embroiled-in-illegal-tiger-trade-allegations

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thailands-renowned-sriracha-tiger-zoo-is-to-close-after-24-years-in-operation/

 

https://news.mongabay.com/2022/03/tiger-and-bear-rescue-spotlights-captive-wildlife-tourism-woes-in-thailand/

 

https://www.worldanimalprotection.org/sites/default/files/media/int_files/tiger_selfies_exposed_a_portrait_of_thailands_tiger_entertainment_industry.pdf

 

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/asia/unlicensed-tigers-found-in-raid-on-private-zoo-1.431539

 

https://m.facebook.com/natgeo/posts/at-a-zoo-in-thailand-tiger-cubs-are-taken-from-their-mothers-at-birth-kept-in-sm/10156439583713951/

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Thailand’s cruel and illegal tiger zoos.

Why are they "illegal " ?

What is illegal  about them ?

"Someone wrote it on the internet" doesn't show any illegality .

What Thai laws does Thai Kingdom break ?

[Thunglom]

40 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Why are they "illegal " ?

What is illegal  about them ?

"Someone wrote it on the internet" doesn't show any illegality .

What Thai laws does Thai Kingdom break ?

I see you've resorted to "sealioning" again...

Perhaps if you read the post, you'd have seen the men lion of CITES? - Thailand is a signatory.

According to Thailand's Wild Animal Reservation and Protection Act B.E. 2535, importing or exporting of tigers and their carcasses is prohibited by law and subject to a maximum of four years imprisonment and/or a 40,000 Baht fine

you might also be interested to know that in the processing of the Tiger temple the courts pointed out "It is important to highlight that the breeding of tigers in Thailand is prohibited by law and therefore the possession of tigers is allowed exclusively within licensed zoos for non-breeding and non-commercial purposes." - UNODC - United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime

The problem is of course that Thailand has very few wildlife laws and makes even less effort to enforce them.

It seems you really know very little about this. s I suggested before you really need to read on this, most of what you post is either irrelevant or just simply incorrect.

you might also check out some of the references I put in the above post.

this is a good organisation to contact - https://www.wfft.org/tigers/illegal-tiger-trade-diving-tigers/

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Thunglom

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Perhaps if you read the post, you'd have seen the CITES? - Thailand is a signatory.

According to Thailand's Wild Animal Reservation and Protection Act B.E. 2535, importing or exporting of tigers and their carcasses is prohibited by law and subject to a maximum of four years imprisonment and/or a 40,000 Baht fine

Te problem is of course that Thailand has very few wildlife laws and makes even less effort to enforce them.

It seems you really know very little about this. s I suggested before you really need to read on this, most of what you post is either irrelevant or just simply incorrect.

OK, now we are getting somewhere .

When did Tiger Kingdom either import or export any either Living or dead Tigers to any other Country ?

  You have stated the law, that's a start .

When did Tiger Kingdom break that law ?

 

[Thunglom]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, now we are getting somewhere .

When did Tiger Kingdom either import or export any either Living or dead Tigers to any other Country ?

  You have stated the law, that's a start .

When did Tiger Kingdom break that law ?

 

 

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

OK, now we are getting somewhere .

When did Tiger Kingdom either import or export any either Living or dead Tigers to any other Country ?

  You have stated the law, that's a start .

When did Tiger Kingdom break that law ?

 

still sealioning? Someone read my post again 

[Thunglom]

..or just read this? - https://cites.org/sites/default/files/eng/cop/12/doc/E12-33A.pdf

Thailand has been in trouble with CITES many times in the past few years to the point where they were threatened with sanctions. In fact the last coup helped them dodge a lot of sanctions.

Happy sealioning to those without an argument - most normal people don't repeatedly ask for trivial references as they can find out for themselves or at least find some evidence to make a counter argument with....but this ability seems to allude some people on this thread

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Thunglom

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

..or just read this? - https://cites.org/sites/default/files/eng/cop/12/doc/E12-33A.pdf

Thailand has been in trouble with CITES many times in the past few years to the point where they were threatened with sanctions. In fact the last coup helped them dodge a lot of sanctions.

Happy sealioning to those without an argument - most normal people don't repeatedly ask for trivial references as they can find out for themselves or at least find some evidence to make a counter argument with....but this ability seems to allude some people on this thread

 

That report is from 20 years ago, Tiger Kingdom opened 14 years ago .

Are you saying a report about Tiger Kingdom was written six years before it opened ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

18 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

 

still sealioning? Someone read my post again 

You keep making inaccurate false statements and when you get questioned about them , you accuse others or trolling and "sealionning" .

   How about you either back  your false allegations up and stop accusing others ?

   Now . Are you going to state when Tiger Kingdom either imported or exported any Tigers ?

   Are you going to back your claims up or just have sly little digs at me in reply ?

Edited May 8, 2022 by Mac Mickmanus

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

..

Happy sealioning to those without an argument - most normal people don't repeatedly ask for trivial references as they can find out for themselves or at least find some evidence to make a counter argument with....but this ability seems to allude some people on this thread

 

No, it doesnt work like that . 

If you make inaccurate , false, misleading claims and accusations YOU need to provide some proof of those allegations .

   Its not up to me to scour the internet looking for evidence , No mate, it doesn't work like that .

  It doesn't matter how abusive you become, its still up to YOU to provide evidence of what you claim 

[Bkk Brian]

WWF commends closure of Thai zoo embroiled in illegal tiger trade allegations

Posted on 10 March 2021

 

During an initial investigation of the zoo in November 2020, the DNP impounded five tigers and, having conducted DNA tests, found that three cubs were genetically unrelated to any local captive tigers. Over the next 90 days, during which time the zoo was forced to suspend operations, the DNP conducted a secondary investigation and round of DNA tests of the tigers being held in the facility which found that additional claims filed by the zoo about the parentage and genetic relation of some tigers were falsified. 

These findings, in addition to being in offence of criminal codes about providing false information to the government, provide probable cause that the tigers in the facility had been smuggled from abroad or laundered from the wild, indicating a strong likelihood of illegal wildlife possession and trafficking in direct violation of the Wild Animal Reservation and Protection Act (WARPA).

 

https://tigers.panda.org/?2394466/WWF-commends-closure-of-Thai-zoo-embroiled-in-illegal-tiger-trade-allegations

[DezLez]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, it doesnt work like that . 

If you make inaccurate , false, misleading claims and accusations YOU need to provide some proof of those allegations .

   Its not up to me to scour the internet looking for evidence , No mate, it doesn't work like that .

  It doesn't matter how abusive you become, its still up to YOU to provide evidence of what you claim 

And for you to do the same!

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

WWF commends closure of Thai zoo embroiled in illegal tiger trade allegations

Posted on 10 March 2021

 

During an initial investigation of the zoo in November 2020, the DNP impounded five tigers and, having conducted DNA tests, found that three cubs were genetically unrelated to any local captive tigers. Over the next 90 days, during which time the zoo was forced to suspend operations, the DNP conducted a secondary investigation and round of DNA tests of the tigers being held in the facility which found that additional claims filed by the zoo about the parentage and genetic relation of some tigers were falsified. 

These findings, in addition to being in offence of criminal codes about providing false information to the government, provide probable cause that the tigers in the facility had been smuggled from abroad or laundered from the wild, indicating a strong likelihood of illegal wildlife possession and trafficking in direct violation of the Wild Animal Reservation and Protection Act (WARPA).

 

https://tigers.panda.org/?2394466/WWF-commends-closure-of-Thai-zoo-embroiled-in-illegal-tiger-trade-allegations

That is one establishment that broke the laws /rules and had legal action taken against them , although we weren't actually talking about that particular business , that goes to show that when illegal activity happens , the perpetrators get punished .

   The false allegation was that all the Tiger Kingdoms are illegal , and that is the statement that I questioned .

  As in all businesses, some of them act illegally , but that doesn't mean everything single business is an illegal business  

[Bkk Brian]

The pandemic while destroying many legitimate business also did some good:

 

A silver lining to the pandemic: a notorious Thai tiger zoo closes for good

 

Many of these exploitative venues have fallen on hard times too. In fact, some of them have been forced to close down for good, including a notorious tiger zoo in Thailand. The Sriracha Tiger Zoo, located in a Thai seaside resort town, first opened its doors in 1997

 

“First we came to the tigers. The smaller ones were in tiny cages, running in circles and pushing their faces up against the metal. The bigger ones were clearly malnourished and drugged; they were chained to the ground and hit by the staff to encourage them to perform for the amusement of tourists,”

 

https://www.sustainability-times.com/sustainable-business/a-silver-lining-to-the-pandemic-a-notorious-thai-tiger-zoo-closes-for-good/

[Fairynuff]

On 5/7/2022 at 9:07 PM, Thunglom said:

It rather looks as if you don't know much about anything to do with tigers, wildlife and conservation, but substitute this gap in your knowledge with cliches and stereotypes - is this an attempt to cover up the gaps in your knowledge?

 

No, it’s an attempt to point out what you are

[Scott]

I think a rather simple question was asked and has now been answered. 

 

//CLOSED//