Crypto Crashes

[GrandPapillon]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I bet you don't like using a mobile phone ????

mobile phones are useful, cryptos are worthless ????

Edited May 17, 2022 by GrandPapillon

[Stygge]

12 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Oh dear, another luddite. 

 

Yes, when it comes to dark net child porn or drug deals or oligarchs hiding fiat money from sanctions I´m a proud luddite.

[fdsa]

5 minutes ago, Stygge said:

Yes, when it comes to dark net child porn or drug deals or oligarchs hiding fiat money from sanctions I´m a proud luddite.

And when you need to pay a $100 invoice via SWIFT you are happy to pay $50 in fees.

[Stygge]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

There will be no paper money soon. China is already a cashless society, with Thailand not far behind.  

 

China, in the big cities, are really into electronic money. Authoritarian China love it because it make tracking your citizens so much easier. But - it´s not crypto, it´s yen.. Crypto currency is forbidden in China.

[sezze]

31 minutes ago, fdsa said:

And when you need to pay a $100 invoice via SWIFT you are happy to pay $50 in fees.

If you are in Thailand then you should know that Westernunion was used long time before any BTC or any other was used , with nearly 0 waiting times and small fees , certainly less then SWIFT . This is exactly the BTC people say , oh , i can transfer money everywhere fast with less cost .In Thailand i could do bank transfers before BTC and go inside ANY bank and for 20 baht fee it was instant in the other persons bank . Westernunion was used a lot also , nowadays its Wise or another service , and maybe they work with BTC , but it does not give me any reason to have BTC myself . If it takes longer then 1 second to be in another account , it is just because the bank likes to keep the money for themselves as long as possible .

And then you say , yes but now i do not need to use WU or Wise or similar , true , you need to use a BTC trading platform , which then is just the same ...

[ozimoron]

6 hours ago, Hummin said:

To me the most interesting part is the discussion around especially BTC among my friends and friends of friends who invested in BTC, is mostly the same individuals who invested in World games pyramid scheme, and also in the same type of saving the world by planting trees in Africa. And also mostly the same arguments and intensity of pushing others to invest, especially when it goes down. 

 

 

I have seen anyone pushing people to invest. All assets go up and down.

[ozimoron]

4 hours ago, atpeace said:

Yes, that is what will be the demise of the current forms of crypto IMO.  Too many better options will become available and IMO  most  be controlled by powerful countries.  You seem to think we all don't get it?  We do and have seen this many times before. 

 

Progress never stops but the current crypto crowd think it revolves around them. We get it or at least most of us do.  Paper money is not the future!!!

Most crypto is not money and doesn't purport to be so.

[GrandPapillon]

2 hours ago, fdsa said:

And when you need to pay a $100 invoice via SWIFT you are happy to pay $50 in fees.

more like $25, but who is silly enough to do a $100 transfer with SWIFT? nobody :)

 

you pay with a credit card, like normal people do :p

 

[lkn]

4 hours ago, fdsa said:

And when you need to pay a $100 invoice via SWIFT you are happy to pay $50 in fees.

What a ridiculous straw-man! Domestic bank transfers are free and instant in most countries, similarly many European banks offer free and instant SEPA payments, i.e. within the Single European Payments Area.

 

If you need to transfer cross-country outside SEPA there are many options, Wise, Revolut, WU, PayPal, etc. which are nowhere near $50. Both PayPal, Wise, and Revolut are free if you transfer to users with an account, and I think Revolut gives me 3 free international payments per month, but I have never needed them.

 

If you pay $50 for SWIFT transfers, it’s not due to lack of cheaper options/banks. I think you will actually have to struggle, to find a bank that actually charges this much for SWIFT transfers. When I was banking with Wells Fargo ~10 years ago, international wire transfers were $20, and I am quite sure things have improved in the U.S. since then.

 

Crypto OTOH is not free to transfer, and transfer fees can explode, just take the Ethereum gas fees earlier this month with the Bored Ape stuff, or the ConstitutionDAO which failed where people had to pay hundreds of dollars in fees, and then when they failed to buy the constitution and people wanted refunds, they had to pay fees again to get their money back, someone even ending up paying more in fees than the refunded amount.

 

So absolutely terrible example you are giving for why crypto has advantages. Also because you can’t actually pay a $100 invoice with crypto, you need an off-ramp which again will not be free.

[HighPriority]

24 minutes ago, lkn said:

What a ridiculous straw-man! Domestic bank transfers are free and instant in most countries, similarly many European banks offer free and instant SEPA payments, i.e. within the Single European Payments Area.

 

If you need to transfer cross-country outside SEPA there are many options, Wise, Revolut, WU, PayPal, etc. which are nowhere near $50. Both PayPal, Wise, and Revolut are free if you transfer to users with an account, and I think Revolut gives me 3 free international payments per month, but I have never needed them.

 

If you pay $50 for SWIFT transfers, it’s not due to lack of cheaper options/banks. I think you will actually have to struggle, to find a bank that actually charges this much for SWIFT transfers. When I was banking with Wells Fargo ~10 years ago, international wire transfers were $20, and I am quite sure things have improved in the U.S. since then.

 

Crypto OTOH is not free to transfer, and transfer fees can explode, just take the Ethereum gas fees earlier this month with the Bored Ape stuff, or the ConstitutionDAO which failed where people had to pay hundreds of dollars in fees, and then when they failed to buy the constitution and people wanted refunds, they had to pay fees again to get their money back, someone even ending up paying more in fees than the refunded amount.

 

So absolutely terrible example you are giving for why crypto has advantages. Also because you can’t actually pay a $100 invoice with crypto, you need an off-ramp which again will not be free.

You make some strong points, but did I tell you how much money I made ?
You could make money too if only you were as intelligent and savvy as I…

????

 

 

[Gecko123]

11 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I think I know why the haters are out in force in this thread. 

The stock market is imploding and they are annoyed that they didn't listen to the advice of the wise, who told them to put 1% into crypto as a hedge. Attacking crypto is like self-righteous indignation to raise their spirits ????

I know you see yourself as the forum's high priest of Bitcoin, but you have probably done more to alienate potential investors than anyone I can think of. If you were an ambassador to a country you would have been recalled long ago. If your goal is to bolster interest in Bitcoin, my advice to you would be to stop talking. The insults, the name calling, the condescension, the braggadociousness is so obnoxious and off-putting.

 

You also have shown an appalling insensitivity to the reality that people have different risk appetites especially as they get older, something which has been pointed out to you over and over again, to no avail. Also, please provide a link to where you ever recommended capping one's Bitcoin position at 1% of your portfolio. Maybe you have, but just earlier on this thread you were applauding another poster's plans to move all of his bank accounts into Bitcoin.

 

Grandiose and all-in when Bitcoin is up, you turn maudlin, verbally abusive, and self-pitying when it crashes, and either dubiously claim you presciently liquidated your positions months earlier, or that your interest in Bitcoin was never more than intellectual in nature to begin with.

 

You need to give your Bitcoin hucksterism on this forum a break. As I said earlier, you're alienating people more than gaining new converts.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Gecko123

[Airalee]

9 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I know you see yourself as the forum's high priest of Bitcoin, but you have probably done more to alienate potential investors than anyone I can think of. If you were an ambassador to a country you would have been recalled long ago. If your goal is to bolster interest in Bitcoin, my advice to you would be to stop talking. The insults, the name calling, the condescension, the braggadociousness is so obnoxious and off-putting.

 

You also have shown an appalling insensitivity to the reality that people have different risk appetites (a fundamental of financial counseling), something which has been pointed out to you over and over again to no avail. Also, please provide a link to where you ever recommended capping Bitcoin position at 1% of your portfolio. Maybe you have, but just earlier on this thread you were applauding another poster's plans to move all of his bank accounts into Bitcoin.

 

Grandiose and all-in when Bitcoin is up, you turn maudlin, verbally abusive, and self-pitying when it crashes, and either dubiously claim you presciently liquidated your positions months earlier, or that your interest in Bitcoin was never more than intellectual in nature to begin with. You need to give your Bitcoin hucksterism on this forum a break. As I said earlier, you're alienating people more than gaining new converts.

I’d give this post 100 “likes” if possible.

 

 

[atpeace]

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

 

 

7 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Most crypto is not money and doesn't purport to be so.

Yet the crypto crowd seem to endlessly compare it to money and detail its esoteric advantages. 

 

Time will tell and those that have timed the crypto markets well, more power to you.  Not too hard the last few years and really only needed to randomly buy and sell to be a genius in your own mind.  It usually ends when the buy the dip crowd accumulates a serries of dip buys that don't recover in the short term.  Panic sets in and the investing gurus become fools.

 

This has happened many times the last thousand years and this iteration of seemingly irrational investments like crypto may be the exception but what are the odds?

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, atpeace said:

 

 

Yet the crypto crowd seem to endlessly compare it to money and detail its esoteric advantages. 

 

Time will tell and those that have timed the crypto markets well, more power to you.  Not too hard the last few years and really only needed to randomly buy and sell to be a genius in your own mind.  It usually ends when the buy the dip crowd accumulates a serries of dip buys that don't recover in the short term.  Panic sets in and the investing gurus become fools.

 

This has happened many times the last thousand years and this iteration of seemingly irrational investments like crypto may be the exception but what are the odds?

Bitcoin is running out the clock on Time will tell. It isn't going away. The reason the "crypto crowd" refer to tokens as coins is because of the "coin " in bitcoin which was the first one and was intended to be a currency but really evolved as a store of value instead.

[atpeace]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Bitcoin is running out the clock on Time will tell. It isn't going away. The reason the "crypto crowd" refer to tokens as coins is because of the "coin " in bitcoin which was the first one and was intended to be a currency but really evolved as a store of value instead.

But it may be worthless 10 years from now.  Will it always be around?  Yes but that is not the why people are investing in Crypto (store of value ). 

 

Time will tell a lot and IMO you are blinded by your beliefs but I may be wrong.  Crypto will evolve and probably will have few similarities to its current forms.  IMO the current crypto investments will perform poorly moving forward a decade from today but only time will tell.  As for investing in crypto and making money, I bet we will still see new highs and more exuberance before it crashes.  In the end who the heck really knows....

 

Block chain is just the new thing but even better alternatives will arise in the future.  The amount of innovation in financial transactions if breathtaking and crypto will be a relic sooner than many believe.  It is exciting at the moment and you seem to doing well with it - happy for you.

[Neeranam]

11 hours ago, Stygge said:

Yes, when it comes to dark net child porn or drug deals or oligarchs hiding fiat money from sanctions I´m a proud luddite.

Oh dear, another clueless response. 

 

Don't you know that the Bitcoin transactions are fully recorded?

Obviously not. 

[Neeranam]

On 5/17/2022 at 4:29 PM, Gecko123 said:

I know you see yourself as the forum's high priest of Bitcoin, but you have probably done more to alienate potential investors than anyone I can think of. If you were an ambassador to a country you would have been recalled long ago. If your goal is to bolster interest in Bitcoin, my advice to you would be to stop talking. The insults, the name calling, the condescension, the braggadociousness is so obnoxious and off-putting.

 

You also have shown an appalling insensitivity to the reality that people have different risk appetites especially as they get older, something which has been pointed out to you over and over again, to no avail. Also, please provide a link to where you ever recommended capping one's Bitcoin position at 1% of your portfolio. Maybe you have, but just earlier on this thread you were applauding another poster's plans to move all of his bank accounts into Bitcoin.

 

Grandiose and all-in when Bitcoin is up, you turn maudlin, verbally abusive, and self-pitying when it crashes, and either dubiously claim you presciently liquidated your positions months earlier, or that your interest in Bitcoin was never more than intellectual in nature to begin with.

 

You need to give your Bitcoin hucksterism on this forum a break. As I said earlier, you're alienating people more than gaining new converts.

Wow, someone has a high sensitivity. 

 

Firstly, I don't promote Bitcoin, I own very little of it, perhaps 0.5% of my crypto portfolio. I actually think it is old and will be overtaken as the top asset soon. 

Do you seriously think if I was promoting bitcoin, I'd do it on a forum with mostly retirees?

This topic is about crypto crashing. Crypto is NOT crashing and it has attracted all the hateful oldies, whose ignorance on the space is embarrassing. I got into the space 5 years ago, when the market cap was around $4 billion. Now, the market cap is $1.35 Trillion. The dinosaurs are cherry picking dates and prices to somehow prove to each other that crypto is crashing and they were ever so clever by not buying it when they first heard. Do you really think that this increase is a crash?

You don't like when someone bursts your bubble and throw out vicious personal attacks, act your age and welcome to ignore. I like friendly debate but you are downright deluded and rude.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Scott

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, atpeace said:

But it may be worthless 10 years from now.  Will it always be around?  Yes but that is not the why people are investing in Crypto (store of value ). 

 

Time will tell a lot and IMO you are blinded by your beliefs but I may be wrong.  Crypto will evolve and probably will have few similarities to its current forms.  IMO the current crypto investments will perform poorly moving forward a decade from today but only time will tell.  As for investing in crypto and making money, I bet we will still see new highs and more exuberance before it crashes.  In the end who the heck really knows....

 

Block chain is just the new thing but even better alternatives will arise in the future.  The amount of innovation in financial transactions if breathtaking and crypto will be a relic sooner than many believe.  It is exciting at the moment and you seem to doing well with it - happy for you.

Like you, the only thing I believe is that bitcoin will still be around. I don't know how many times I have to say that it's not necessarily a good investment at current prices. In the short term it may rise but at the end of the day I believe this is a bear market for ALL asset classes and the longer term outlook is down for everything. My reasons are off topic  here. Unlike you, I believe that bitcoin will never be "worthless" and that one day it will again be an excellent investment. Most crypto will fail (as has happened historically) but bitcoin won't because of the huge amount invested in it and the fact that it was the first crypto. It's lack of utility actually benefits its value, similar to gold. While gold has some utility that represents a tiny fraction of its value. Its rarity gives it value.

[Neeranam]

10 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I have seen anyone pushing people to invest. All assets go up and down.

Here is a rocket scientist explaining Bitcoin's use and value.

 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Here is a rocket scientist explaining Bitcoin's use and value.

Soon to be pauper Michael Saylor ????

[RafPinto]

https://money.com/bitcoin-crypto-losses-2022/

[RafPinto]

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Here is a rocket scientist explaining Bitcoin's use and value.

 

Sure he will push and push and push because all his bets are on crypto.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, RafPinto said:

Sure he will push and push and push because all his bets are on crypto.

The current bear market is easily explainable. Bitcoin has always been in a bull market because it came at an ideal time, several years after huge injections of money supply following the GFC and then again aftyer covid started. Most of that money found it's way into share buybacks and crypto. It also caused rampant inflation which the Fed failed to recognise and check. Now they have no weapons to fight inflation other than increase interest rates which drives up the cost of capital and depresses the stock market. Since crypto always follows the stock market the outlook is down for the next couple of years at least, probably much longer. War with Russia and economic losses due to climate change are also depressing asset prices..

[RafPinto]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The current bear market is easily explainable. Bitcoin has always been in a bull market because it came at an ideal time, several years after huge injections of money supply following the GFC and then again aftyer covid started. Most of that money found it's way into share buybacks and crypto. It also caused rampant inflation which the Fed failed to recognise and check. Now they have no weapons to fight inflation other than increase interest rates which drives up the cost of capital and depresses the stock market. Since crypto always follows the stock market the outlook is down for the next couple of years at least, probably much longer. War with Russia and economic losses due to climate change are also depressing asset prices..

But wasn't it one of the selling points of crypto, to protect "against" inflation.

[ozimoron]

Just now, RafPinto said:

But wasn't it one of the selling points of crypto, to protect "against" inflation.

I wouldn't say it was a selling point but it was an incorrect assumption. Like gold isn't either despite having a supposed reputation for being so. Bitcoin (and all crypto) history of following the stock market belies any theory that it would ever become a hedge against inflation..

[atpeace]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I wouldn't say it was a selling point but it was an incorrect assumption. Like gold isn't either despite having a supposed reputation for being so. Bitcoin (and all crypto) history of following the stock market belies any theory that it would ever become a hedge against inflation..

Gold historically has been a great hedge against inflation.  I think some of the new wave of investors are not serious about past fluctuation in asset values.  10-20 years is not a long time to base an assumption which you seem to be doing.  The last 20 years has been dominated by easy money with really no long lasting consequences.  When will it all collapse? This last few months are only a minor speed bump - just wait until real panic sets in. In 2007-2008 it began but the Fed stepped in and removed much of the fear.  

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Here is a rocket scientist explaining Bitcoin's use and value.

 

that guy is simply not there, what a loon, listen to last 10min, it's hilarious ????

Edited May 18, 2022 by GrandPapillon

[FritsSikkink]

20 hours ago, Neeranam said:

There will be no paper money soon. China is already a cashless society, with Thailand not far behind.  

 

More nonsense

[FritsSikkink]

16 hours ago, fdsa said:

And when you need to pay a $100 invoice via SWIFT you are happy to pay $50 in fees.

I pay my invoices with a debit card in Thailand, costs me nothing.

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, RafPinto said:

Sure he will push and push and push because all his bets are on crypto.

over 100 million usd loss in 2 years