UK pension - general question

[Andyfez]

As someone who hasn't yet reached pension age, but also someone who is registered as an expat, can someone tell me how the British government knows we are actually in thailand, and not for instance in the philippines?

If they are paying our pension into a British bank account, how often would they be sending anything by mail?

An off the wall question; could you live in thailand, and give a mailing address in the philippines?

 

[Eff1n2ret]

Apart from the original statement when you first qualify for your pension, the only mail you get from the DWP is the "Proof of Life" certificate every two years or so. If you don't receive and return that, either because of poor mail delivery in your area of Thailand or because you've created a fictitious address in the Philippines, they will stop payment.

[Thailand]

It is basically illegal but after responses from HMG I would suggest maintaining an address in the UK and claim full pension.

Probably what I would do if I had thought about it before!

[Kwasaki]

DWP sent my pension application forms here to my Thai address.

They must have got my address from HMRC I had lived in Thailand for 7 years up to then. 

[Guderian]

3 hours ago, Thailand said:

It is basically illegal but after responses from HMG I would suggest maintaining an address in the UK and claim full pension.

Probably what I would do if I had thought about it before!

I tend to agree having seen the government completely ignore the findings of the APPG on Frozen UK Pensions. My address here in Thailand has long been registered with the DWP as I felt it was best to be honest and open, as well as avoiding any chance of being charged with fraud at some stage. Now, however, I wish that I'd simply left the DWP matters in my UK address, even if they found out that I was living abroad I think you'd have a decent chance in court of making the case that your fraud was justified given the injustice of the current system that has been declared by MP's of all parties.

[coppywriter]

If you retire to the Philippines your UK pension will be increased each year as the Philippines and the UK have an agreement in law to maintain this. 

If you give the DWP your Philippines bank details they will pay it to you in pesos. 

[Griffo63]

29 minutes ago, coppywriter said:

If you retire to the Philippines your UK pension will be increased each year as the Philippines and the UK have an agreement in law to maintain this. 

If you give the DWP your Philippines bank details they will pay it to you in pesos. 

Irrespective of where you live you can choose in which country you want your pension paid and in which currency.  So, for example,I live in Thailand (and I have declared that) but I have my UK State Pension paid into a UK bank in £.  I could though have it paid into the Thai in baht if I wished.  

[coppywriter]

3 minutes ago, Griffo63 said:

Irrespective of where you live you can choose in which country you want your pension paid and in which currency.  So, for example,I live in Thailand (and I have declared that) but I have my UK State Pension paid into a UK bank in £.  I could though have it paid into the Thai in baht if I wished.  

Isn't that against the rules? 

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, coppywriter said:

Isn't that against the rules? 

No. 

[Griffo63]

48 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I tend to agree having seen the government completely ignore the findings of the APPG on Frozen UK Pensions. My address here in Thailand has long been registered with the DWP as I felt it was best to be honest and open, as well as avoiding any chance of being charged with fraud at some stage. Now, however, I wish that I'd simply left the DWP matters in my UK address, even if they found out that I was living abroad I think you'd have a decent chance in court of making the case that your fraud was justified given the injustice of the current system that has been declared by MP's of all parties.

I honestly don't think that defence would work as there has been several challenges in law to get it changed already and all have failed.  That said I've never heard of any-one being taken to court over declaring a false address and do know several people who have addresses in Philippines or UK they use despite living here.  Provided their mail gets forwarded and they can answer "proof of life" every couple of years they seem content with that.  Whenever I return to the UK to see family I always notify the Pensions office of my arrival/departure date and whilst I'm there I get the  up-weighted amount. No-one has ever checked whether I'm in the UK or not to my knowledge.  If you return and stay in the UK for more than 183 days then your pension is permanently up-weighted and does not reduce back if you later return to Thailand. For some people this is worth considering.    

[Griffo63]

6 minutes ago, coppywriter said:

Isn't that against the rules? 

No.  All of my close friends do the same thing.  It allows you to transfer into Thailand when the exchange rate suits you and often the "transfer charges" are less on a larger amount (say if you transfer once a quarter) 

[Griffo63]

5 minutes ago, Griffo63 said:

I honestly don't think that defence would work as there has been several challenges in law to get it changed already and all have failed.  That said I've never heard of any-one being taken to court over declaring a false address and do know several people who have addresses in Philippines or UK they use despite living here.  Provided their mail gets forwarded and they can answer "proof of life" every couple of years they seem content with that.  Whenever I return to the UK to see family I always notify the Pensions office of my arrival/departure date and whilst I'm there I get the  up-weighted amount. No-one has ever checked whether I'm in the UK or not to my knowledge.  If you return and stay in the UK for more than 183 days then your pension is permanently up-weighted and does not reduce back if you later return to Thailand. For some people this is worth considering.    

I should add 183 days in the same tax year 

[coppywriter]

9 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

No. 

Do you still get the annual increase? 

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, coppywriter said:

Do you still get the annual increase? 

Not unless you spend more than 180 days a year in the UK. 

[Expat68]

4 hours ago, Thailand said:

It is basically illegal but after responses from HMG I would suggest maintaining an address in the UK and claim full pension.

Probably what I would do if I had thought about it before!

If you were to rent the said property, they would also find out

[nickmondo]

4 hours ago, Thailand said:

It is basically illegal but after responses from HMG I would suggest maintaining an address in the UK and claim full pension.

Probably what I would do if I had thought about it before!

do it now.

whats the problem?

[chilly07]

It wouldn't take much effort to check where you are really living especially if a government official subs it out to an agency on no win no fee. Then you would loose your pension permanently. The agent would probably search Asean News for leads!

[Doctor Tom]

1 minute ago, chilly07 said:

The agent would probably search Asean News for leads!

Stop scare mongering. 

[Thailand]

5 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

do it now.

whats the problem?

And how do I do that without raising red flags after being out of the UK for more than 30 years and having had my pension paid in to Thailand for the last 16 years?

 

Did work out that I have lost out on about 900K baht over that time. 

[Surasak]

1 hour ago, coppywriter said:

If you retire to the Philippines your UK pension will be increased each year as the Philippines and the UK have an agreement in law to maintain this. 

If you give the DWP your Philippines bank details they will pay it to you in pesos. 

Which you would find reduced due to the exchange in the UK before sending.

Nothing to stop you continuing to use a UK bank and using a Philippines postal address, but they are not cheap.

[2ndhomepattaya]

Why don't you just have a 3rd party managed UK mailing address which is totally legit and easy to maintain. You can then decide which of the mails you want forwarded and which to be discarded. On-line management of your mailbox at a very reasonable cost I think. And I am just a user of such for some years and have no  financial interest in any of them. Just good experience.

[Chongalulu]

2 hours ago, chilly07 said:

It wouldn't take much effort to check where you are really living especially if a government official subs it out to an agency on no win no fee. Then you would loose your pension permanently. The agent would probably search Asean News for leads!

Arrant nonsense and a breathtaking display of ignorance ???? 

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, Guderian said:

even if they found out that I was living abroad I think you'd have a decent chance in court of making the case that your fraud was justified given the injustice of the current system that has been declared by MP's of all parties.

Absolutely no chance of that one! Fraud is fraud and you'll get no sympathy in a court of law. Nor would anyone who assisted you by the way, by allowing you to use their address. That's aiding and abetting. 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

And how do I do that without raising red flags after being out of the UK for more than 30 years and having had my pension paid in to Thailand for the last 16 years?

 

Did work out that I have lost out on about 900K baht over that time. 

Did you take the trouble to work out how much you'd saved by living in a country with a much lower cost of living? (or if not saved, at least spent on things more to your liking)

[Thailand]

1 minute ago, Moonlover said:

Did you take the trouble to work out how much you'd saved by living in a country with a much lower cost of living? (or if not saved, at least spent on things more to your liking)

Yes

[tanner]

Thousands of expats from UK are still receiving full pension via address of family or friends back home.

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

And how do I do that without raising red flags after being out of the UK for more than 30 years and having had my pension paid in to Thailand for the last 16 years?

 

Did work out that I have lost out on about 900K baht over that time. 

It is quite credible and not unusual  for someone to return to uk in their twilight years as circumstances change and medical insurance/health care becomes prohibitive in their adopted country. Basically they do take your word for it in the first place without requiring proof ,but you would need an address (relative?) in the UK (or other qualifying country) . I would also register on the electoral roll (can be done on line) and ideally with a local GP to get those details on the NHS register. A bigger hurdle might be getting a uK bank account ,unless you maintained one, given they will do ID / address checks to open one. 
One thing for everyone to be aware of is "connectivity " whereby increasingly, government departments are swapping information. So for instance you renew your UK passport in Thailand and that gets flagged. 
It is doable,but can be much more difficult depending on your circumstances. If you’ve basically cut most ties for 30 years it’ll be much harder than say you own but rent out your house in uk ,have maintained a uk driving licence,bank account , GP etc. 

Forget the fraud prosecution /forfeiture of pension hysteria mentioned by the ignorant , that’s not happened to my knowledge ,but you would likely have to repay any excess payments. In summary,if your circumstances enable a facade to be created fairly easily it’s definitely worth the effort!

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, chilly07 said:

It wouldn't take much effort to check where you are really living especially if a government official subs it out to an agency on no win no fee. Then you would loose your pension permanently. The agent would probably search Asean News for leads!

The DWP have no need to 'sub out' their investigations. They have a very efficient fraud investigation team of their own. I knew of 2 cases of folks being caught whilst I was in Egypt.

 

One was found out when his 'host' in the UK called DWP to ask about his winter heating allowance. It had gone to the wrong person. Oops!

 

The other one called to ask why his payments had stopped. They, in turn asked him to confirm his address. When he had done so he was then asked why he wasn't on the electoral register. (a legal requirement in the UK) Oops again.

 

Simple things that you might not think of, but they do!

[Chongalulu]

21 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Absolutely no chance of that one! Fraud is fraud and you'll get no sympathy in a court of law. Nor would anyone who assisted you by the way, by allowing you to use their address. That's aiding and abetting. 

Tell me your knowledge of anyone who’s been prosecuted for fraud in relation to this? I’ll wait….

[Kwasaki]

4 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

It is quite credible and not unusual  for someone to return to uk in their twilight years as circumstances change and medical insurance/health care becomes prohibitive in their adopted country. Basically they do take your word for it in the first place without requiring proof ,but you would need an address (relative?) in the UK (or other qualifying country) . I would also register on the electoral roll (can be done on line) and ideally with a local GP to get those details on the NHS register. A bigger hurdle might be getting a uK bank account ,unless you maintained one, given they will do ID / address checks to open one. 
One thing for everyone to be aware of is "connectivity " whereby increasingly, government departments are swapping information. So for instance you renew your UK passport in Thailand and that gets flagged. 
It is doable,but can be much more difficult depending on your circumstances. If you’ve basically cut most ties for 30 years it’ll be much harder than say you own but rent out your house in uk ,have maintained a uk driving licence,bank account , GP etc. 

Forget the fraud prosecution /forfeiture of pension hysteria mentioned by the ignorant , that’s not happened to my knowledge ,but you would likely have to repay any excess payments. In summary,if your circumstances enable a facade to be created fairly easily it’s definitely worth the effort!

You really hard up.