Thai PM receives warm welcome from US President, discusses bilateral and multilateral cooperation defense with US Defense Secretary

[candide]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Well, replace "elected" with "legitimate" -- elected wasn't a process in the 18th century -- and we have the American Revolution. So, certainly there are situations where the sitting government needs to go -- for the betterment  of the citizens. Thus, glad I'm the product of  a coup, and not still a Brit or Old Worlder.

 

Yeah, a little too dramatic. Prayut is not G. Washington. But neither is he that butcher next door in Burma. Living in Thailand since he came onboard hasn't affected my life at all, nor that of my Thai neighbors. I still maintain that a democratically elected follow on to Yingluck would not have made a noticeable improvement to Thailand's situation in 2022. We'll never know, however. Democracy in today's world ain't what it used to be -- switch on your reality button, and temper your idealism thoughts.

You are considering this issue in an inverted way. The issue is not whether a democratically elected government would have been better, it is whether an unelected autocratic government is providing significant benefits that would justify it. 

 

It may or may not have made a noticeable improvement, we don't know. However, what we know for sure, is that the coup did not bring any noticeable improvement. So why impose an autocratic corrupt and illegetimate regime, with all the flaws that are attached to it, in particular the absence of accountability and counter-powers, if it doesn't bring any improvement? The answer is quite obvious!

 

On top of it, what you and a few others are unable to grasp, is that the democratic process is a learning process. It took time in Western countries to develop acceptable democratic systems.

This learning process simply cannot happen if it is regularly interrupted by coups which are replacing corrupt elected politicians by corrupt unelected autocrats. It could have happened if there had been no coup. Yingluck may not have been re-elected.

Edited May 15, 2022 by candide

[Mr Meeseeks]

4 hours ago, JimGant said:

Well, replace "elected" with "legitimate" -- elected wasn't a process in the 18th century -- and we have the American Revolution. So, certainly there are situations where the sitting government needs to go -- for the betterment  of the citizens. Thus, glad I'm the product of  a coup, and not still a Brit or Old Worlder.

 

Yeah, a little too dramatic. Prayut is not G. Washington. But neither is he that butcher next door in Burma. Living in Thailand since he came onboard hasn't affected my life at all, nor that of my Thai neighbors. I still maintain that a democratically elected follow on to Yingluck would not have made a noticeable improvement to Thailand's situation in 2022. We'll never know, however. Democracy in today's world ain't what it used to be -- switch on your reality button, and temper your idealism thoughts.

Elections of course were a process in the 18th Century. for example Britain had general elections in the 1700's under the Hanoverian King George I. 

 

Democratic principles were long established at that point and were becoming more popular due to organisations like the Freemasons etc. 

 

The US was the product of a revolution, which the majority of those who were rebels actually still wanted reconciliation with mother England. 

 

Switch on your reality button and go and study history. Dictators are never a better option than democracy. 

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

You are an American so I don't know how the US dollar was in 2014, but the GBP was around 50 Bt then, now 8 years it is around 42 Bt now. It is not just a coincidence how that has happened. i am no financial expert, but IMO the unelected PM and his soldiers have been manipulating the Thai Bt since they stole the country.

Yeah, it's not a coincidence, and, yes, you're certainly no financial expert. Using the world's baseline currency, my US dollar, we're 6% better off than we were against the baht this past 8 years (32.3 vs 34.3). And that's certainly a better snapshot of how the baht has been behaving over this time frame, and whether or not there has been any currency manipulation.

 

Sorry the pound has sunk against the baht, but that's certainly not due to an 'unelected PM and his soldiers' manipulating the baht. Brexit has certainly been involved in the pound's deterioration, as well as other British missteps.

 

Blaming Prayut for your diminished pound is absurd. But, yeah, if you want to blame your financial sorrows on the coup, have at it.

[JimGant]

45 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The US was the product of a revolution, which the majority of those who were rebels actually still wanted reconciliation with mother England.  Switch on your reality button and go and study history.

You too. Majority?

 

Quote

Historical Insights.

Loyalists During the American Revolution

An estimated 500,000 (about 30 percent of colonists) were Tories, who stayed faithful to the British Crown. Also known as Loyalists, many were businessmen, wealthy landowners, and government workers whose livelihoods depended on trade with the British Empire.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

Just now, JimGant said:

You too. Majority?

 

 

I said those rebels still in favour of reconciliation, were there a chance even Washington, Franklin, Adams et al were still in favour of some sort of reconciliation with Mother England

 

I was not referring to the colonists that remained loyal to the British Crown.

 

Do try to keep up.

[JimGant]

7 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I said those rebels still in favour of reconciliation,

Interesting observation. To your knowledge, was there ever a point during the revolutionary war where the parties said, let's sit down and discuss a compromise to this mess...?

 

By the way, we won the bloody war, so "favour" is now spelled "favor." ????

[Blumpie]

When you want something better give him a warm welcome....

Democratically elected?  Um, ok.... 

[Adumbration]

Biden is p**ssing in the wind here.

 

China will demand and get Thailand's (and all indebted belt and rail) countries allegience when it moves on Taiwan.

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, it's not a coincidence, and, yes, you're certainly no financial expert. Using the world's baseline currency, my US dollar, we're 6% better off than we were against the baht this past 8 years (32.3 vs 34.3). And that's certainly a better snapshot of how the baht has been behaving over this time frame, and whether or not there has been any currency manipulation.

 

Sorry the pound has sunk against the baht, but that's certainly not due to an 'unelected PM and his soldiers' manipulating the baht. Brexit has certainly been involved in the pound's deterioration, as well as other British missteps.

 

Blaming Prayut for your diminished pound is absurd. But, yeah, if you want to blame your financial sorrows on the coup, have at it.

I will just end this debate and say it was wrong of this unelected PM and his soldiers to take out a government elected by the Thai people.

I like to try and respect the TV/AN posters opinions, even if I don't agree with them but not when they think it is ok to go against the vast majority of the electorate and support a bunch of money mad soldiers to run the country.

[pegman]

12 hours ago, Mavideol said:

a so called leading democratic country receiving/dealing with a military grabbing power coup leader just wonder why the US didn't invite the military coup leader of Myanmar, after all he just follow Prayut's actions, what's the reason to segregate

The USA is not recognized as a "Full Democracy" but as a "Flawed Democracy". Likely to do with $$$ in politics and gerrymandering.. Which makes it's lecturing others a bit rich.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

[pegman]

5 hours ago, JimGant said:

Interesting observation. To your knowledge, was there ever a point during the revolutionary war where the parties said, let's sit down and discuss a compromise to this mess...?

 

By the way, we won the bloody war, so "favour" is now spelled "favor." ????

 There are still plenty of us descendants of Empire Loyalists who are waiting up here in the Great White North to descend there once the upcoming race riots conclude. The demoestic terrorists may have won round one but we are optometric our stolen Vermont property will be back to it's rightful owners hands. Not to be taken as humor but as humour. 

[PETERTHEEATER]

On 5/14/2022 at 12:22 PM, Misterwhisper said:

How about finally thawing Walt Disney and deepfreeze Biden instead?

More people pay to watch Walt Disney on Ice.......

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

More people pay to watch Walt Disney on Ice.......

Far more animated.

[Mavideol]

10 hours ago, pegman said:

The USA is not recognized as a "Full Democracy" but as a "Flawed Democracy". Likely to do with $$$ in politics and gerrymandering.. Which makes it's lecturing others a bit rich.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

by looking at your link, US same ratings as Thailand, thus why they got well together   555