Combination method for retirement extension

[thoengthaied]

Hi all. I have 2 questions re combination method for retirement extension:-

 

1) Using funds which have been in a foreign currency deposit account for many years along with monthly pension paid into Bangkok Bank for many years. What conversion rate do Immi use when calculating Thai baht amount from funds in a foreign currency deposit account. Do they use a particular bank's foreign exchange rate?

2) If a top up to the bank account is needed because of shortfall to the 800,000 total, does the total amount in the bank account need to be seeded for some months? 

 

Regards, thoengthaied.

[ubonjoe]

1. On the day the bank does the letter confirming your account they will calculate your balance using the exchange for the day the letter is written.

3. The money in the bank will need to be in the bank for 2 months on the day your apply for the extension of stay.

If you are extending a existing extension of stay you will also show proof that you kept at least 800k baht for 3 months after you applied for it an then a least 400k baht up to the day your apply if using the combination option.

You will need proof of your total annual income by showing the transfers came abroad and you will also need a letter from the bank confirming your account. You will need a one year bank statement to prove your annual income.

[thoengthaied]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

1. On the day the bank does the letter confirming your account they will calculate your balance using the exchange for the day the letter is written.

3. The money in the bank will need to be in the bank for 2 months on the day your apply for the extension of stay.

If you are extending a existing extension of stay you will also show proof that you kept at least 800k baht for 3 months after you applied for it an then a least 400k baht up to the day your apply if using the combination option.

You will need proof of your total annual income by showing the transfers came abroad and you will also need a letter from the bank confirming your account. You will need a one year bank statement to prove your annual income.

Thank you ubonjoe. My comments:-

1) What exchange rate do they use? Bangkok Bank, SCB, xe.com....etc. There are many rates. I need to know which one they will use  in order to do my own calculations.

3) I beg to differ here...I have used the combination method for three years now and on the second application I asked the Immi officer about showing bank balance after 3 months and he told me it wasn't necessary, so I didn't. On the next application there was no problem. 

 

I'm due to renew my extension next month and there may be a small shortfall in the total of 800,000 so i was thinking of transferring more funds into the foreign currency deposit account from overseas, but need to be able to calculate accurately if I will have that shortfall before transferring funds. The shortfall will possibly be about 20,000 baht due to a recent currency rate drop. I don't want to be embarrassed by not having calculated correctly. 

[KannikaP]

17 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

Thank you ubonjoe. My comments:-

1) What exchange rate do they use? Bangkok Bank, SCB, xe.com....etc. There are many rates. I need to know which one they will use  in order to do my own calculations.

3) I beg to differ here...I have used the combination method for three years now and on the second application I asked the Immi officer about showing bank balance after 3 months and he told me it wasn't necessary, so I didn't. On the next application there was no problem. 

 

I'm due to renew my extension next month and there may be a small shortfall in the total of 800,000 so i was thinking of transferring more funds into the foreign currency deposit account from overseas, but need to be able to calculate accurately if I will have that shortfall before transferring funds. The shortfall will possibly be about 20,000 baht due to a recent currency rate drop. I don't want to be embarrassed by not having calculated correctly. 

Why do you have 800k in the bank if you are using the combo method.?

I transfer 50k per month (Wise to Bkk Bank) and keep 220k in my Foreign Currency Account. Accepted by P'lok Immigration no problems.

You mention wanting to know the exact exchange rate. Well for THB 800k you would need £19047 @ 42 Bht to the GBP, or 18604 @ 43. A difference of £443. If your stay here depends on that small amount, you should re-think things.

Edited May 16, 2022 by KannikaP

[thoengthaied]

10 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Why do you have 800k in the bank if you are using the combo method.?

I transfer 50k per month (Wise to Bkk Bank) and keep 220k in my Foreign Currency Account. Accepted by P'lok Immigration no problems.

You mention wanting to know the exact exchange rate. Well for THB 800k you would need £19047 @ 42 Bht to the GBP, or 18604 @ 43. A difference of £443. If your stay here depends on that small amount, you should re-think things.

I don't recollect saying I had 800,000 in the bank. I don't keep that amount in a Thai bank, hence the combination method totalling 800,000.

Which exchange rate are you using for your above calculations, please?

Edited May 16, 2022 by thoengthaied

[ubonjoe]

1. The exchange for the bank writing the letter confirming your account and the balance on the day apply. 

Best to use a low rate to calculate the amount needed a couple of months before you apply for the extension to determine if you have enough for the combination option.

3. I can only state what the rules state. Are you writing about going to immigration 3 months after you applied to prove your balance. I was writing about proof of the balance for past year when applying.

For topping up your account to 800k baht I would calculate the exchange rate well below the current rate.

 

[thoengthaied]

Yes, ubonjoe. Per your earlier reply "If you are extending a existing extension of stay you will also show proof that you kept at least 800k baht for 3 months after you applied for it".  

On the combination method it doesn't really make sense that an Immi officer would ask for 800,000 to be in the bank for 3 months after the extension because there are infinite combinations eg. 100,000 in bank and 700,000 pension, 600,000 in bank and 200,000 pension. 

Not wishing to start an argument here because I respect your knowledge, longevity and contributions over many years here. 

I thank you for adding that Immi will use the exchange rate of the bank supplying the letter.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

On the combination method it doesn't really make sense that an Immi officer would ask for 800,000 to be in the bank for 3 months after the extension because there are infinite combinations eg. 100,000 in bank and 700,000 pension, 600,000 in bank and 200,000 pension. 

It appeared you were using the combination option for the first time.

You will only need to prove you kept the money in the bank you used with income for the extension application for 3 months.

[lexilis]

For the past several years the Chiang Mai Immigration office does not accept the combination method. 

[buick]

i use a foreign currency account at bangkok bank to satisfy my 800,000thb equivalent for an extension based on retirement.  as noted by ubon joe, the bank letter you get sets forth the amount in foreign currency and THB.  i once checked their rates the day i got the letter and they had used the TT rate (34.61 today) that can be seen in this link.  i can't guaranty that is what all banks do or that bangkok bank does it this way every time.  but i can say they did it once.

 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/View-Rates/Foreign-Exchange-Rates

[thoengthaied]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. However, back to my original opening post:-

"2) If a top up to the bank account is needed because of shortfall to the 800,000 total, does the total amount in the bank account need to be seeded for some months? "

Nobody has answered that question accurately so far.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. However, back to my original opening post:-

"2) If a top up to the bank account is needed because of shortfall to the 800,000 total, does the total amount in the bank account need to be seeded for some months? "

Nobody has answered that question accurately so far.

If using the money in the money in the bank option it will have to be 800k baht for 2 months on the day you apply.

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

2) If a top up to the bank account is needed because of shortfall to the 800,000 total, does the total amount in the bank account need to be seeded for some months?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.

The total of funds needs to be 800k+ two months prior to application for extension also 3 months post application. 400k+ minimum at other times. 

Same rule using combo method or funds in bank method.

Clearly your immigration office allows combo method. Some do not.

 

 

[thoengthaied]

Jeez, ubonjoe. Combination method. If a top up is done to bring balance up to amount required to bring total up to 800,000 with pension, say, 2 weeks before asking for letter, is that ok or does it need to be seeded? eg. 500,000 pension, 200,000 in bank, then 100,000 added to bank account 2 weeks before asking for bank letter. 

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

Jeez, ubonjoe. Combination method. If a top up is done to bring balance up to amount required to bring total up to 800,000 with pension, say, 2 weeks before asking for letter, is that ok or does it need to be seeded? eg. 500,000 pension, 200,000 in bank, then 100,000 added to bank account 2 weeks before asking for bank letter. 

In other words you messed up with the amount you keep as deposit in the bank and wish to make up the short fall by an extra amount placed in bank as income couple of weeks prior to application.

 

Think that will be up to the immigration officer.

In my book nup.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

Jeez, ubonjoe. Combination method. If a top up is done to bring balance up to amount required to bring total up to 800,000 with pension, say, 2 weeks before asking for letter, is that ok or does it need to be seeded? eg. 500,000 pension, 200,000 in bank, then 100,000 added to bank account 2 weeks before asking for bank letter. 

The money in the bank for 2 months and income part are 2 separate things. 

You have to have a enough income for a year and money in the bank to reach a total of 800k baht.

For example if you had 600k baht in a Thai bank it would need to be in the bank for 2 months when you apply and a annual income of at least 200k baht to reach a total of 800k baht.

[thoengthaied]

No. I didn't mess up but value of my foreign currency has dropped and may drop further before extension is due. Yes, I am running it a bit tight at the moment, so am now asking for clarification so that I may make provisions.

[thoengthaied]

I've now come to the conclusion that ubonjoe and I aren't on the same wavelength. I think I'll give up and emigrate to Cambodia.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

No. I didn't mess up but value of my foreign currency has dropped and may drop further before extension is due. Yes, I am running it a bit tight at the moment, so am now asking for clarification so that I may make provisions.

I was trying to help you understand what I was stating.

You mentioned topping up your bank account to 800k baht and that is not using the combination option.

Any funds you add to your account to reach the 800k baht total has to be in the bank for 2 months on the day you apply.

[thoengthaied]

No. I didn't say I wanted to top up my bank account to 800,000. I wanted to know if I topped up my bank account to an amount that would bring the total of bank balance plus pension to 800,000 would be ok, say, 2 weeks prior to extension. I may be about 20,000 short and can transfer that amount or more in if necessary.

Edited May 16, 2022 by thoengthaied

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

No. I didn't say I wanted to top up my bank account to 800,000. I wanted to know if I topped up my bank account to an amount that would bring the total of bank balance plus pension to 800,000 would be ok, say, 2 weeks prior to extension.

You would need to prove your annual income to use the combination option. Can you prove your annual income by way of proof from your embassy or 12 months of transfers into a Thai bank.

This from the immigration order for extensions.

 

 

[KannikaP]

30 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

No. I didn't say I wanted to top up my bank account to 800,000. I wanted to know if I topped up my bank account to an amount that would bring the total of bank balance plus pension to 800,000 would be ok, say, 2 weeks prior to extension. I may be about 20,000 short and can transfer that amount or more in if necessary.

OK, I misunderstood your posts also. If it's only 20k you're talking about, just do it, put it in the bank.

My IO likes 220k in the bank plus 600k in 12 x foreign transfers of 50k.

Edited May 16, 2022 by KannikaP

[Tanoshi]

40 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

No. I didn't say I wanted to top up my bank account to 800,000. I wanted to know if I topped up my bank account to an amount that would bring the total of bank balance plus pension to 800,000 would be ok, say, 2 weeks prior to extension. I may be about 20,000 short and can transfer that amount or more in if necessary.

My 2 cents.

The question is have you maintained an annual earnings and deposit totalling 800K.
Any funds in the bank used for the combination must have been deposited for 2 months prior to the date of application, the same as if using just the fund's method.

 

To quote yourself, if your income was 500,000 throughout the year, then the fund's requirement would be 300,000 for 2 months prior to the date of application.
If your funds, we're only 280,000 throughout the year, and you top up to 300,000 2 weeks before your extension, then in my opinion you don't qualify.
However, it is not for members to make a decision, we can only quote the rules, the decision is at the IO's discretion.

For what it's worth, my IO insist the funds must be 400,000 when using the combination method. (Their interpretation).

 

Order 548/2562.

(4) At least 2 months prior to the filing date and at least 3 months after being granted permission, an alien must have a deposit in a commercial bank located in Thailand of no less than 800,000 baht. After being granted permission for 3 months, an alien can withdraw the said deposit and must have the remaining balance in the bank account of no less than 400,000 baht or
(5) Must have an annual earning and a deposit in a commercial bank located in Thailand with totalling of no less than 800,000 baht as of the filing date. The said deposit must remain in the bank account prior to and after the permission is granted and the withdrawal can be made under the same condition in the Criterion (4)

Edited May 16, 2022 by Tanoshi

[KannikaP]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

and the withdrawal can be made under the same condition in the Criterion (4)

Does that mean down to 400k, or 50% withdrawal? Bit difficult when I only have 220k in the bank.

[Tanoshi]

On the other hand if you're short 20,000, having 280K in funds and make a final transfer to make up the shortfall (not depositing it in your funds account), then 280K funds and 520K in monthly transfers you qualify.

[thoengthaied]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You would need to prove your annual income to use the combination option. Can you prove your annual income by way of proof from your embassy or 12 months of transfers into a Thai bank.

This from the immigration order for extensions.

 

 

Yes. I have a monthly pension paid into my Bangkok Bank account and this has been being paid in there for several years. I have been in Thailand for 16 years on retirement extensions and up until 3 years ago I have used the money in the bank option. 3 years ago I decided to repatriate most of my money and live on my pension, and then started to use a combination of pension and money in bank. This has always been plain sailing but recently the money in my bank account has diminished because of over spending to a point where I may need to top it up again, especially as the exchange rate of my foreign currency has recently declined also. I am in the process of trying to calculate the value of my pension plus bank deposit in order to apply for my next extension next month. It seems that if there is a further decline in the exchange rate I may have to transfer some more money into my foreign currency deposit account. Hence my original post and questions. All my affairs are in order and I will have no difficulty in proving pension income etc. I could transfer big money back into Thailand but want to limit the amount I hold here at the moment.

[Tanoshi]

24 minutes ago, thoengthaied said:

This has always been plain sailing but recently the money in my bank account has diminished because of over spending to a point where I may need to top it up again, especially as the exchange rate of my foreign currency has recently declined also. I am in the process of trying to calculate the value of my pension plus bank deposit in order to apply for my next extension next month. It seems that if there is a further decline in the exchange rate I may have to transfer some more money into my foreign currency deposit account.

At a guess, you're from the UK, which has seen extreme changes in the exchange rate.

 

Whatever funds you hold in your FCD account can remain fixed, although the exchange rate will affect the calculation. Use BKK TT rate for the day to calculate in baht and allow a 10% fluctuation would be my advice. The point I tried to make is you can differ your monthly transfers, which are averaged over 1 year, to meet the requirements. Nothing in the orders states it must be 50K per month. You can transfer 60K for 2 months to cover any shortfalls in a reduced exchange rate.

[Tanoshi]

44 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Does that mean down to 400k, or 50% withdrawal? Bit difficult when I only have 220k in the bank.

Theoretically, you should be able to withdraw up to 110K of the 220K after 3 months, then top up 2 months prior to your next extension application.
My IO insist 400K must be maintained throughout the year for the combination method.
With such ambiguously written orders, inconsistencies are common between IO's.

[KannikaP]

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

At a guess, you're from the UK, which has seen extreme changes in the exchange rate.

 

Whatever funds you hold in your FCD account can remain fixed, although the exchange rate will affect the calculation. Use BKK TT rate for the day to calculate in baht and allow a 10% fluctuation would be my advice. The point I tried to make is you can differ your monthly transfers, which are averaged over 1 year, to meet the requirements. Nothing in the orders states it must be 50K per month. You can transfer 60K for 2 months to cover any shortfalls in a reduced exchange rate.

But if you are doing the 65k a month method, it MUST BE that per month, not averaged.

[KannikaP]

4 hours ago, thoengthaied said:

I don't recollect saying I had 800,000 in the bank. I don't keep that amount in a Thai bank, hence the combination method totalling 800,000.

Which exchange rate are you using for your above calculations, please?

Errrr, 42 & 43 Baht to the GBP.