Uvalde shooting: Texas shooting response was 'wrong', says official

[Rimmer]

Police made the "wrong decision" by failing to storm a primary school classroom in Uvalde, Texas, as a gunman killed 19 children inside, the top safety official has said.

 

"If I thought it would help, I would apologise," Steven McCraw said during a heated press conference on Friday.

 

Officers delayed entering because they did not believe it was still an "active shooter" situation, he said.

 

Full story: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61613177

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2022-05-28

[CharlieH]

Apparently they waited outside, refused to let parents go in, yet went in to get their own kids out ! Disgusting !

 

"Department of Public Safety lieutenant interviewed by local news, some officers did run into the school — but only to grab their own children."

 

https://theintercept.com/2022/05/27/uvalde-texas-shooting-police-law-enforcement/

 

They stood there with full arnour  vests etc and weapons and did nothing, waiting for more guys in more gear to do it! Pathetic excuse.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

The phone calls to police from the students inside the locked room with the gunman are heartbreaking:

 

Student calls to 911:

12:03—whispered she's in room 112

12:10—said multiple dead

12:13—called again

12:16—says 8-9 students alive

12:19—student calls from room 111

12:21—3 shots heard on call

12:36—another call

12:43—asks for police 12:47—asks for police

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

The phone calls to police from the students inside the locked room with the gunman are heartbreaking:

 

Student calls to 911:

12:03—whispered she's in room 112

12:10—said multiple dead

12:13—called again

12:16—says 8-9 students alive

12:19—student calls from room 111

12:21—3 shots heard on call

12:36—another call

12:43—asks for police 12:47—asks for police

40 minutes transpired ... that's one embarrassing police department.  Hard to believe not 1 officer didn't enter the building.  "Protect & Serve" ????

 

Hope those reports aren't accurate.

 

[billsmart]

Just recently, there's been much too much emphasis put on the mistakes of law enforcement and how those contributed to the RESULTS of the horrible outcome . Right now, we (US citizens) need to stay focused on the CAUSE of the problem - the alarming proliferation of military-style guns among the general public. We've got to do something to return our laws to support the intent of the 2nd Amendment, the enabling of a people's militia, which in these days and times I interpret to be our National Guard, not a weapons locker in everyone's home. ????

[jerrymahoney]

Uvalde gunman legally bought AR rifles days before shooting, law enforcement says

 

The gunman in the deadliest school shooting in Texas history bought two AR-style rifles legally just after his 18th birthday — days before his assault on Robb Elementary School in Uvalde.

 

He legally purchased two AR platform rifles from a federally licensed gun store on two days: May 17 — just a day after his birthday — and May 20, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said, according to a briefing that state Sen. John Whitmire, chair of the Senate Criminal Justice Committee, received from state authorities late Tuesday. The gunman bought 375 rounds of 5.56-caliber ammunition on May 18.

 

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/25/uvalde-shooter-bought-gun-legally/

[animalmagic]

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

Just recently, there's been much too much emphasis put on the mistakes of law enforcement and how those contributed to the RESULTS of the horrible outcome . Right now, we (US citizens) need to stay focused on the CAUSE of the problem - the alarming proliferation of military-style guns among the general public. We've got to do something to return our laws to support the intent of the 2nd Amendment, the enabling of a people's militia, which in these days and times I interpret to be our National Guard, not a weapons locker in everyone's home. ????

Whilst I agree with the general gist of your post, there can never be too much emphasis on the mistakes of law enforcement in a modern society.  It all adds up as part of the problem.

[Rimmer]

I suspect The commanding officer on the scene will shortly be 'going on leave' and there will be massive lawsuits launched against the depertment.

[RobU]

If you listen to him he says "with hindsight" which means it is an excuse, not an apology. He actually states that he will not apologise.

[Excel]

5 minutes ago, RobU said:

The only time US police seem to use their weapons is to kill unarmed Australian women and unarmed black men

Only because they can't fight back

[CharlieH]

1 minute ago, Excel said:

Only because they can't fight back

I was going to say it was when the other person isnt armed. Same thing I suppose.

[RobU]

34 minutes ago, Excel said:

Only because they can't fight back

 

31 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I was going to say it was when the other person isnt armed. Same thing I suppose.

I note that is wasn't the heavily armed and armoured police cowards that finally ended this but a border patrol unit.

[khaowong1]

7 hours ago, billsmart said:

Just recently, there's been much too much emphasis put on the mistakes of law enforcement and how those contributed to the RESULTS of the horrible outcome . Right now, we (US citizens) need to stay focused on the CAUSE of the problem - the alarming proliferation of military-style guns among the general public. We've got to do something to return our laws to support the intent of the 2nd Amendment, the enabling of a people's militia, which in these days and times I interpret to be our National Guard, not a weapons locker in everyone's home. ????

I believe your interpretation is wrong.  But I guess we will never know what our forefathers really meant, will we. 

[khaowong1]

Heads are going to roll over this.  I have a friend who works at the Capital Building in Austin Texas and she tells me the Governor is so mad he starts spitting when he talks about it.  I think a big overhaul in local and state police departments in Texas is coming.  A little too late for these innocent children I know, but maybe it will help the next problem.  People are talking about Mental Health issues, but when you have some 18 year old, buying two AR-15 type rifles, and that much ammo, and then shoot your granny in the face, it goes beyond Mental Health, it goes straight to crazy evil.  There were a lot of red flags flying around this kid and no one seemed to be paying any attention to it.  You can go back in history and point out all kinds of red flags for a whole bunch of people, but when it comes down to where the rubber meets the road, sometimes you just can't stop evil people from being evil.  

[BusyB]

9 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Uvalde gunman legally bought AR rifles days before shooting, law enforcement says

 

The gunman in the deadliest school shooting in Texas history bought two AR-style rifles legally just after his 18th birthday — days before his assault on Robb Elementary School in Uvalde.

 

He legally purchased two AR platform rifles from a federally licensed gun store on two days: May 17 — just a day after his birthday — and May 20, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said, according to a briefing that state Sen. John Whitmire, chair of the Senate Criminal Justice Committee, received from state authorities late Tuesday. The gunman bought 375 rounds of 5.56-caliber ammunition on May 18.

 

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/25/uvalde-shooter-bought-gun-legally/

Yet considered too young to order a beer.

[BusyB]

11 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Apparently they waited outside, refused to let parents go in, yet went in to get their own kids out ! Disgusting !

 

"Department of Public Safety lieutenant interviewed by local news, some officers did run into the school — but only to grab their own children."

 

https://theintercept.com/2022/05/27/uvalde-texas-shooting-police-law-enforcement/

 

They stood there with full arnour  vests etc and weapons and did nothing, waiting for more guys in more gear to do it! Pathetic excuse.

 

 

Seems like US cops are pretty good at killing unarmed black kids, but when the kitchen heats up they stay out in the cool. Their boss was saying a day or so ago that if they'd gone in 'they might have been shot'.

Sorry guys it goes with the territory. We all know it can be a dangerous job. That's why you get many privileges. It's why we respect you for taking the job on. But that's also because one day we might ask you to take some serious risks for us. Goes with the territory sadly.

I'm speaking as one who has taken serious risks in the name of duty - I'd have been shamed to my core for what happened here. Never be able to look in the mirror again.

[Stargeezr]

It will take thousands more of these mass shootings in the USA, before enough people there actually get any kind of change to the gun  laws to happen. Just look at the NRA, and its supporters who are talking on TV. That is a very sad fact.

[billsmart]

16 hours ago, animalmagic said:

Whilst I agree with the general gist of your post, there can never be too much emphasis on the mistakes of law enforcement in a modern society.  It all adds up as part of the problem.

The actions of law enforcement, in this case, are NOT "part of the problem." The primary problem is guns. The actions of law enforcement, in this case, are subject we can discuss as to how to deal with the problem. 

[billsmart]

10 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

I believe your interpretation is wrong.  But I guess we will never know what our forefathers really meant, will we. 

It matters very little (to me) what our forefathers meant when they wrote the constitution. What matters to me, and should to you, is what types of guarantees and laws we need NOW, not what we needed in 1787.

[animalmagic]

9 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

It will take thousands more of these mass shootings in the USA, before enough people there actually get any kind of change to the gun  laws to happen. Just look at the NRA, and its supporters who are talking on TV. That is a very sad fact.

Sad to say but the current frequency of these mass shootings means that you may reach thousands more quite soon.

[animalmagic]

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

The actions of law enforcement, in this case, are NOT "part of the problem." The primary problem is guns. The actions of law enforcement, in this case, are subject we can discuss as to how to deal with the problem. 

I respectfully disagree, in my post I was referring to any and all mistakes by police and not referencing this particular case.

The mistakes and failures of any police force impact society in a negative way and then influences their opinions on society's actions in future.  SCOTUS has already affirmed that the police have no duty to protect the public, this too is part of the problem - 

Police Have No Duty to Protect You, Federal Court Affirms Yet Again | Mises Institute

To look at problems in isolation only solves the direct cause of something but overlooks the indirect cause that creates the environment possible for the problem to occur.

When a person breaks their leg because they tripped over a hole in the ground simply repairing the hole is insufficient.  You have to examine why inspection and maintenance procedures allowed a hole to get so big that someone broke their leg.

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

20 hours ago, billsmart said:

Just recently, there's been much too much emphasis put on the mistakes of law enforcement and how those contributed to the RESULTS of the horrible outcome . Right now, we (US citizens) need to stay focused on the CAUSE of the problem - the alarming proliferation of military-style guns among the general public. We've got to do something to return our laws to support the intent of the 2nd Amendment, the enabling of a people's militia, which in these days and times I interpret to be our National Guard, not a weapons locker in everyone's home. ????

It was pathetic once one or more cops with guns were on scene that they didn't engage the shooter. When you take a job wearing a gun you should be aware of your duty. Cops these days are so afraid of proper procedures that they let kids be murdered.

 

But its understandable cops are fearful of veering away from book procedures. The wrong split decision could land them in prison.

[Neeranam]

Blaming the police has no benefit. 

 

This is the fault of the government for allowing kids people to buy guns.

[Neeranam]

16 hours ago, RobU said:

If you listen to him he says "with hindsight" which means it is an excuse, not an apology. He actually states that he will not apologise.

He would be admitting wrongdoing, which sadly would cost them financially.

[EVENKEEL]

While we're waiting to have discussions on gun reform and mental illness, how about we do a bit of proactiveness at the schools. No reason not to have proper fencing and anyone entering school having to enter at a point where they can be ID. That's not hard. I can't enter my kids school here in Thailand without going through the reception area and doors need card swipe to open. it's not rocket science.

[Excel]

27 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

While we're waiting to have discussions on gun reform and mental illness, how about we do a bit of proactiveness at the schools. No reason not to have proper fencing and anyone entering school having to enter at a point where they can be ID. That's not hard. I can't enter my kids school here in Thailand without going through the reception area and doors need card swipe to open. it's not rocket science.

Always used to schools where I was brought up having walls and fences so that pupils had to go through the main gates,  are you saying in the US that is not the case and and access to the school buildings are a free for all ?

[GanDoonToonPet]

Maybe one way to tackle this, in some cases, is trying more to prevent bullying in schools. Not that I'm justifying his actions. Some people don't seem to understand the difference in explaining something (cause-effect) and justifying it. I doubt very much he was born that way.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 5/28/2022 at 11:26 AM, Bkk Brian said:

The phone calls to police from the students inside the locked room with the gunman are heartbreaking:

 

Student calls to 911:

12:03—whispered she's in room 112

12:10—said multiple dead

12:13—called again

12:16—says 8-9 students alive

12:19—student calls from room 111

12:21—3 shots heard on call

12:36—another call

12:43—asks for police 12:47—asks for police

Copied from Twitter so must be accurate.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Copied from Twitter so must be accurate.

By a correspondent for the NY Times. The chances that this is inaccurate are zero.

[Liverpool Lou]

22 hours ago, billsmart said:

the CAUSE of the problem - the alarming proliferation of military-style guns among the general public

Really?  The statistics indicate that handguns, not "military-style guns" are the main weapon of choice, in general, in killings.   No, I don't have a dog in this fight.