"ATM scam" - myth or reality ?

[billd766]

9 hours ago, dingdongrb said:

...and yet my USA bank charges an additional $5 USD for each ATM transaction I do here in Thailand because the ATM machine is not one of theirs.

I have no foreign ATM cards and use the KBank. If I use my ATM card out of province (Kamphaeng Phet) it costs me 20 baht. If I use a different bank ATM, another 20 baht.

 

If I used my card in a shop out of province it is free, or at least no charge is shown. Go figure.

[OneMoreFarang]

12 minutes ago, itsari said:

ATM charges for foreigners to obtain there own money from abroad is a fraud .

Why?

Let's say you go here to the ATM and you withdraw the equivalent to 500USD.

So that 500USD will be withdrawn from your account i.e. in the USA.

Why pays for the ATM machines? Who pays for the computers? Who pays for the software? Who pays for the data transmission? Who pays for the management of all that? Who pays when something goes wrong?

 

IMHO 220 THB is cheap for that service. And I am sure if that kind of service (ATM, bank transfer, etc.) would cost 1,000THB then people would still use it, because they need that service.

 

[Baron Samedi]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And I am sure if that kind of service (ATM, bank transfer, etc.) would cost 1,000THB then people would still use it, because they need that service.

 

That's exactly the problem ????

The Thai banks cartel has a monopoly.

The lack of competition enables them to abuse their dominant position.

 

(220THB is actually pretty expensive if you compare to other countries where some banks apply zero ATM fees - Singapore for example)

[itsari]

10 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why?

Let's say you go here to the ATM and you withdraw the equivalent to 500USD.

So that 500USD will be withdrawn from your account i.e. in the USA.

Why pays for the ATM machines? Who pays for the computers? Who pays for the software? Who pays for the data transmission? Who pays for the management of all that? Who pays when something goes wrong?

 

IMHO 220 THB is cheap for that service. And I am sure if that kind of service (ATM, bank transfer, etc.) would cost 1,000THB then people would still use it, because they need that service.

 

Machines are cheaper than humans in a bank .

If you can not see that I give up.

I have exchanged money from a ATM machine in many countries and never met the charge Thailand banks charge

[Mac Mickmanus]

21 hours ago, Baron Samedi said:

On some websites, they call it the "ATM scam".

By the same people that call tuk-tuk drivers the "Mafia"

If you want to use the machine, you need to pay the cost of using that machine , if you dont want to pay the cost, then don't use it .

  Should the banks give you a free carrier bag to carry your money home in as well ?

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, fasteddie said:

You're having a laugh, they're the first to moan, how do you think they got rich?

I got rich and i am spending.

[Mac Mickmanus]

52 minutes ago, itsari said:

What your point ?

You are talking of interest rates of 40 years back.

Now the rates are on the increase .

ATM charges for foreigners to obtain there own money from abroad is a fraud . 

Time for a change 

Change then, stop using them .

Change right there 

[itsari]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Change then, stop using them .

Change right there 

I do not any more as I have a Thai bank account.

But the fact remains that Thai banks are charging where other countries banks do not

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, itsari said:

I do not any more as I have a Thai bank account.

But the fact remains that Thai banks are charging where other countries banks do not

Many other Countries do also charge for ATM usage though , its NOT just Thailand 

[itsari]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Many other Countries do also charge for ATM usage though , its NOT just Thailand 

Please enlighten us what countries do the same

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, itsari said:

Please enlighten us what countries do the same

Have a look yourself 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATM_usage_fees

[Baron Samedi]

47 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

By the same people that call tuk-tuk drivers the "Mafia"

If you want to use the machine, you need to pay the cost of using that machine , if you dont want to pay the cost, then don't use it .

  Should the banks give you a free carrier bag to carry your money home in as well ?

It would probably be the case if they had more competition.

The tuk-tuk mafia is part of the exact same monopoly problem.

If the island wasn't so corrupted you would have Uber drivers everywhere already.

Better for the drivers, better for the customers.

But hey ! I guess some influential people somewhere don't see it that way ????

 

[Guest truthman]

21 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

The rate has been in place for a very long time and advertised, so how is it a scam? They want rich tourists who don't moan about a couple of hundred THB.

You mean they want idiot tourists who won't scream when they're F---ed

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

It would probably be the case if they had more competition.

The tuk-tuk mafia is part of the exact same monopoly problem.

If the island wasn't so corrupted you would have Uber drivers everywhere already.

Better for the drivers, better for the customers.

But hey ! I guess some influential people somewhere don't see it that way ????

 

Didnt the Tuk Tuk drivers , or their Families sell prime land on the understanding they could be the islands taxi drivers or something ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, truthman said:

You mean they want idiot tourists who won't scream when they're F---ed

Why would they be errrm "F---ed" ?

No one has to use ATM's

[Baron Samedi]

29 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Have a look yourself 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATM_usage_fees

It shows that Thailand is more expensive than the most expensive developed nation on earth when it comes to ATMs ????

 

Utter scam ! Period.

[Baron Samedi]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Didnt the Tuk Tuk drivers , or their Families sell prime land on the understanding they could be the islands taxi drivers or something ?

Maybe. I don't know. But if it's the case, it's an anti free market scheme and the tuk tuk drivers are essentially a cartel.

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

It shows that Thailand is more expensive than the most expensive developed nation on earth when it comes to ATMs ????

 

Utter scam ! Period.

Do you understand what the word "scam" means ?

Its when you trick or deceive someone .

When you make a ATM withdrawal , the cost of using the machine is displayed for you and you are given an option of whether to proceed or not .

  So, its not a "scam" .

Also, just because Thailand doesn't have the Worlds cheapest ATM's , that doesn't make it a scam either 

[Baron Samedi]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Do you understand what the word "scam" means ?

Its when you trick or deceive someone .

When you make a ATM withdrawal , the cost of using the machine is displayed for you and you are given an option of whether to proceed or not .

  So, its not a "scam" .

Also, just because Thailand doesn't have the Worlds cheapest ATM's , that doesn't make it a scam either 

Come on Mac. You know this is just the way people talk. They see it and describe it as a scam when really it is an abuse of dominant position. But nobody talks like that in real life. I think that we all understand the idea behind "ATM scam". Thai banks are essentially holding you by the balls and squeezing gently ????

 

 

[itsari]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

What your point ?

You are talking of interest rates of 40 years back.

Now the rates are on the increase .

ATM charges for foreigners to obtain there own money from abroad is a fraud . 

Time for a change 

Time for what ?

More money to obtain your own money??

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Baron Samedi said:

Come on Mac. You know this is just the way people talk. They see it and describe it as a scam when really it is an abuse of dominant position. But nobody talks like that in real life. I think that we all understand the idea behind "ATM scam". Thai banks are essentially holding you by the balls and squeezing gently ????

 

 

Who do you think should pay for the ATM , the cost of buying it  ?

Who should pay the electric running costs ?

Who should pay the guys who regularly  fill the machine up with cash and their armored vehicles ?

   Who should pay the costs ?

 

[Baron Samedi]

25 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Who do you think should pay for the ATM , the cost of buying it  ?

Who should pay the electric running costs ?

Who should pay the guys who regularly  fill the machine up with cash and their armored vehicles ?

   Who should pay the costs ?

 

An ATM machine costs a couple of thousand dollars and can last for years. Thai banks probably order them in bulk so they might even pay less than that per machine. Electricity is dirt cheap in Thailand. So is the workforce.

 

By applying a fee of 7$ on each withdrawal in areas like Patong, they probably make enough money to buy a new ATM every week or so. Frankly the cost argument doesn't hold.

 

Btw Banks don't count on ATMs to make money. This is not how they operate. The core of their business is lending.

 

But let say they really need the money. The average fee is simply too high compare to what you'd be charged elsewhere.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Baron Samedi

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Baron Samedi said:

An ATM machine costs a couple of thousand dollars and can last for years. Thai banks probably order them in bulk so they might not even pay 1000$ per machine. Electricity is dirt cheap in Thailand. So is the workforce.

 

By applying a fee of 7$ on each withdrawal in areas like Patong, they probably make enough money to buy a new ATM every week or so. Frankly the cost argument doesn't hold.

 

Btw Banks don't count on ATMs to make money. This is not how they operate. The core of their business is lending.

I didnt ask how much ATM's cost .

Who do you think should pay for the actual costs ?

You think that someone should pay the cost and you get it for free

[Baron Samedi]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I didnt ask how much ATM's cost .

Who do you think should pay for the actual costs ?

You think that someone should pay the cost and you get it for free

I think that, if we follow your line of reasoning, the ATM fee should be aligned with the cost of buying and running the ATM. Something like 20-40THB per withdrawal seems fair and wouldn't force people to withdraw large amounts.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Baron Samedi

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

I think that, if we follow your line of reasoning, the ATM fee should be aligned with the cost of buying and running the ATM. Something like 35-40THB per withdrawal seems fair and wouldn't force people to withdraw large amounts.

People are not forced with draw large amounts though  , they can make free withdrawals inside the bank and no one has to use an ATM .

   No one has to pay to use an ATN , 

[dingdongrb]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Time for what ?

More money to obtain your own money??

Have you not heard of the double tax system?

 

Tax the money made & tax the money spent.

[dingdongrb]

41 minutes ago, Baron Samedi said:

Electricity is dirt cheap in Thailand.

I guess you don't have an air conditioner.

[gamb00ler]

9 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

People are not forced with draw large amounts though  , they can make free withdrawals inside the bank and no one has to use an ATM .

   No one has to pay to use an ATN , 

Your assertion is true only in cases where a specific combination of card issuers and Thai banks are the participants in the transaction in question.  Other combinations of issuers and Thai banks either don't work or are not "free".

 

Firstly only a few Thai banks offer cash advances from their tellers on debit/credit cards.  I think only Krungsri and Bangkok bank offer free cash advance services.

 

Secondly, for those using US based financial institutions, there is a short list of those that don't add foreign transaction fees for ATM withdrawals, purchases and cash advances from the teller.  I believe that for other nationalities, the list of fee free foreign transaction card issuers is also quite short.

 

Those two constraints mean that the vast majority of foreigners cannot obtain free withdrawals inside the bank.

[Baron Samedi]

27 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

People are not forced with draw large amounts though  , they can make free withdrawals inside the bank and no one has to use an ATM .

   No one has to pay to use an ATN , 

Sure. But it only makes things more complicated for people.

I think it would be better for business to enable value and choice in payment options for visitors. In the end, I believe they'd be willing to spend more.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Baron Samedi

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

Your assertion is true only in cases where a specific combination of card issuers and Thai banks are the participants in the transaction in question.  Other combinations of issuers and Thai banks either don't work or are not "free".

 

Firstly only a few Thai banks offer cash advances from their tellers on debit/credit cards.  I think only Krungsri and Bangkok bank offer free cash advance services.

 

Secondly, for those using US based financial institutions, there is a short list of those that don't add foreign transaction fees for ATM withdrawals, purchases and cash advances from the teller.  I believe that for other nationalities, the list of fee free foreign transaction card issuers is also quite short.

 

Those two constraints mean that the vast majority of foreigners cannot obtain free withdrawals inside the bank.

We are talking about ATM fees .

Using the over the counter method would mean you wouldn't have to pay an ATM fee .

  There may be other fees you would have to pay , but we are specifically talking about ATM fees .

  From my experience , all banks that offer a currency exchange service can give cash on foreign debit cards , the bank just need to have a hand held card reader to process the transaction