LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, stat said:

Bank statement clearly details bought META for 100K USD in 2023 and sold it for 400K USD in 2025 so the info is there. There is no cap gains statement from the IRS in Germany as everything is dealt on the bank level.

 

Anyway my german IRS statement comes 2 to 3 years after I realized cap gains in a foreign account however but that would be too late. I understand that bank statemends are a kind of grey area as well for BOIs acceptance.

 

I would think there is some kind of document available from META like an account statement or something that would reflect the payment with additional details.  

[stat]

12 hours ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Thanks for that.  I renewed my 5 year licence last year in Phetchaburi no problems with my LTR. 
 

However my wife was refused a tax refund at the airport last year on purchase as Thai Customs treats the LTR Visa as “non tourist”.   
 

TIT

Usually you need to prove that you live outside of the country you are leaving to get the tax refund. I assume your thai wife was living in Thailand? I assume that in a year when you have lived under 180 days in TH you (the farang) could get the tax refund.

[stat]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

I would think there is some kind of document available from META like an account statement or something that would reflect the payment with additional details.  

There is no statement from META. as META is not paying me anything directly. It is the buyer of my stocks that is paying the bank and then the bank pays me (clearinghouse in between as another layer). The same goes for dividends they are paid by the bank to me and the bank receives the dividend from META (clearinghouse again in between). There is no direct link between me and META and no META documents.

[SHA 2 BKK]

9 minutes ago, stat said:

Usually you need to prove that you live outside of the country you are leaving to get the tax refund. I assume your thai wife was living in Thailand? I assume that in a year when you have lived under 180 days in TH you (the farang) could get the tax refund.

My wife is not Thai and has a dependent LTR Visa (as does my child).  
 

We have lived in Thailand full time for 9 years. Previously we held Elite Visas and she was able to get the refund as it’s deemed a tourist Visa.   
 

Customs therefore seem to recognise LTR Visas in a different vein so I don’t think living in Thailand for less than 180 days would allow a successful claim of VAT as it’s linked to the Visa.  
 

This does give me hope also that the Revenue Department hold a

similar point of view and Royal Decree 743 will hold away with any remittance issues.  

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, stat said:

There is no statement from META. as META is not paying me anything directly. It is the buyer of my stocks that is paying the bank and then the bank pays me (clearinghouse in between as another layer). The same goes for dividends they are paid by the bank to me and the bank receives the dividend from META (clearinghouse again in between). There is no direct link between me and META and no META documents.

Thanks for the clarification.  If bank statements is all that is available then I guess that's all you can provide. 

 

A person will need to hope that BOI understands this regarding your cap gains.  BOI gets applications for all kinds of folks....documents from different countries....and hopefully they have a good understanding of the different types of docs provided in/available from country XYZ compared to docs provided in/available from country ABC.   

 

And a short memo  included with an application from the applicant to further explain/clarify certain income can't hurt. 

 

Hopefully someone with chime-in who has already submitted similar type cap gains docs with their LTR application.

[SHA 2 BKK]

Just now, SHA 2 BKK said:

My wife is not Thai and has a dependent LTR Visa (as does my child).  
 

We have lived in Thailand full time for 9 years. Previously we held Elite Visas and she was able to get the refund as it’s deemed a tourist Visa.   
 

Customs therefore seem to recognise LTR Visas in a different vein so I don’t think living in Thailand for less than 180 days would allow a successful claim of VAT as it’s linked to the Visa.  
 

This does give me hope also that the Revenue Department hold a

similar point of view and Royal Decree 743 will hold away with any remittance issues.  

Edit: second last paragraph “would NOT allow”  not being the operative word. 

[Desmond77]

Hi, may I know if the THB50K fee is applicable to only the main applicant? What about the dependents? Will it be THB50K too?

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, stat said:

Thanks for your post! Could you kindly elaborate some details of your investment in Th government bonds? Is a foreign bank acceptable as correspondent bank? What is the yield of the bonds, is it ok to buy 1 year bond? Thanks!

 

I purchased the Thai Government bonds to top up the money needed meet the BoI requirement of $250K US$ investment in Thailand as part of the requirement for a Wealthy Pensioner who is only claiming the > $40K US$ equiv/year income.

 

No. One year bond is NOT adequate.  5-year is not adequate.  It needs to be a 7 year or 10-year.

 

I purchased the new bonds at a local Bangkok Bank Branch.   Frankly, I did not care about the interest rate.  If you are looking for an investment in Thailand with a good interest rate, then FORGET THIS APROACH (I put in caps deliberately).  I did not care about the interest rate.

 

I bought 2-million THB in Thai government bonds.  Interest was  3%.  7-year maturity.  Tax is automatically with drawn before interest paid.  I was asked for a Thai TIN (which I did not have) when applying for the bond.  I gave the bank my pink-ID #, their computer accepted that, and I obtained the bond.

 

Frankly, the 3% interest worries me as being too high - as it could mean I will have to file a Thai tax return. My hope (??) is the automatic withholding tax will mean I don't have to file an income tax return.

 

The Bank of Thailand (from whom Bangkok Bank gets the bond) would only give me a bond book, and not a bond certificate. BoI would not initially accept copy of the bond book. In the end, Bangkok bank printed on the last page of the bond book the bond interest rate, maturity/redemption date, and that satisfied BoI.

 

But to re-iterate, I did not buy the bonds for investment. This was just money to top up the BoI $250K US$ requirement.  The remainder of the $250K US (not covered by the 2-million THB in bonds) was my 50% ownership of my condominium unit (my wife owns the other 50%).  And the 3% interest could bite me in the butt and force me to file a Thai tax return.

 

[stat]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

 

 

Thanks! Should be possible to sell and rebuy the bond before the 5 year period IMHO 😉 Nevertheless cumbersome and expensive spread + other costs etc. I would only recommed to buy the bonds with a non thai bank outside of TH but this is just me remembering the malaysia capital controls end of the 90s.

[BrandonJT]

12 hours ago, Desmond77 said:

Hi, may I know if the THB50K fee is applicable to only the main applicant? What about the dependents? Will it be THB50K too?

Each visa is 50,000 baht.

[Pib]

12 hours ago, Desmond77 said:

Hi, may I know if the THB50K fee is applicable to only the main applicant? What about the dependents? Will it be THB50K too?

From the BOI LTR webpage....the 50K applies to all types of LTR visa including a Dependent LTR visa.

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/#what

And more detailed LTR visa issuance/fee info at below BOI LTR webpage:

https://ltr.boi.go.th/page/visa-issuance-info.html

[oldcpu]

On 1/22/2025 at 4:29 PM, oldcpu said:

 

The head person at the Phuket office was very polite and true to her word, she called the head office in Bangkok, and has had the policy straightened.  Frankly - I am impressed (favourably) with the professionalism of all the workers at the Phuket Department of Transportation Office.

 

i can go tomorrow to the office and pick up my International Driver's Licence.

 

 

I picked up my International Driver's Licence today.  All went very smooth once the LTR visa aspect was sorted.

[stat]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I picked up my International Driver's Licence today.  All went very smooth once the LTR visa aspect was sorted.

How long is the IDL valid? Three years I assume. Thanks!

[oldcpu]

16 minutes ago, stat said:

How long is the IDL valid? Three years I assume. Thanks!

 

I wish it was three years - but sadly only 1 year.

[oldcpu]

21 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I picked up my International Driver's Licence today.  All went very smooth once the LTR visa aspect was sorted.

 

Possibly this belongs in another thread, and I think I mentioned it, but thinking back, I am very impressed with the Phuket Department of Transport licensing section's staff.  There are so many people going to that government building for licences, that the line goes far far out of the building's aircondioned area, along the side of the building (in the heat/sun) and around the corner.

 

As one might expect, the people waiting can get tired and short of temper at time ... maybe a bit grumpy/bitchy.

 

The staff at that office are incredibly professional and polite, and so if one is polite and professional in return, they do seem to try harder to help one, within the restrictions of what they are legally permitted to do.   While I dread visiting that facility due to the lines, the quality and expertise of the people working there does help a lot to make up for the waiting.

[stat]

On 1/24/2025 at 12:37 PM, oldcpu said:

 

I wish it was three years - but sadly only 1 year.

The 1968 IDL version is needed in TH and this should be valid three years imho. I have mine from GER and it is 3 years valid. TH changed to the 1968 version of IDL around 2021.

[stat]

On 1/25/2025 at 7:46 AM, oldcpu said:

 

Possibly this belongs in another thread, and I think I mentioned it, but thinking back, I am very impressed with the Phuket Department of Transport licensing section's staff.  There are so many people going to that government building for licences, that the line goes far far out of the building's aircondioned area, along the side of the building (in the heat/sun) and around the corner.

 

As one might expect, the people waiting can get tired and short of temper at time ... maybe a bit grumpy/bitchy.

 

The staff at that office are incredibly professional and polite, and so if one is polite and professional in return, they do seem to try harder to help one, within the restrictions of what they are legally permitted to do.   While I dread visiting that facility due to the lines, the quality and expertise of the people working there does help a lot to make up for the waiting.

How much would the help of an agent be to get a thai driving licence and is the licence "legit"? Thanks!

[JackGats]

On 1/24/2025 at 6:37 PM, oldcpu said:

 

I wish it was three years - but sadly only 1 year.

The International Driving Permit according to the Vienna convention is valid for 3 years (unless your driving licence expires first). The International Driving Permit according to the Paris or Geneva convention is only valid for 1 years if my memory serves me right.

[stat]

22 hours ago, JackGats said:

The International Driving Permit according to the Vienna convention is valid for 3 years (unless your driving licence expires first). The International Driving Permit according to the Paris or Geneva convention is only valid for 1 years if my memory serves me right.

I had to explain to the guy in the german idl department that TH switched to the Vienna convention around 2020 cause he wanted to give me the Paris convention IDL which is not valid after 2020, make sure everyone that you get the Vienna convention IDL from 1968 for Thailand. Technically they could consider it as driving without dl and then you are in some deep s... when it come to insurance claims.

[oldcpu]

There are many threads on taxation running in parallel on AseanNow.  On one of the threads, user Guavaman reported that they phoned the Thai Revenue Department help line and asked them a number of questions one being:

 

Quote

 

Q: If I have an LTR Wealthy Pensioner visa, do I need to file a tax return?

 

The answer was:

 

A: If you have an LTR Wealthy Pensioner visa, there is no need to file a tax return.

 

 

That's good news IMHO!

 

     EDIT:  I assume this applies to LTR-WP, LTR-WGC and LTR-WFTP visa holders.

 

It did thou send me off thinking of a hypothetical scenario.  

 

I obtained my LTR visa in 2023.  Lets say in 2033 I elected to switch to a Type-O non-immigrant visa (that is not my plan - I am just speculating).

 

Is money accrued in the past when on an a LTR visa, but left outside of Thailand (in savings) ,  considered by the RD as  income if one has switched to a Type-O visa?

 

I speculate worst case it might be, so i am going to do a book keeping such that I can prove my German pension (which is not protected by the Thai-German  DTA) was brought into Thailand when I was on the LTR-WP.  And show that any savings I have outside of Thailand is from my pension incomes that the Thai DTA exempts from Thai taxation ... ie Canadian pensions (or similar Canadian remunerations for example.  

 

That way I ensure I don't get stuck with paying tax on German pension accrued after 1-Jan-2024 (por-161/162 relevant date) when I bring such into Thailand , as I can show i already brought the money into Thailand.

 

This is all hypothetical, but it may impact my book keeping ,and maybe impact some bank transfers to Thailand.

 

[Pib]

Not really LTR visa related, but this afternoon I listened to a live ExpatTaxThailand webinar where a high level lawyer from the Thai Revenue Dept answered 10 questions.  The 10 questions were supposedly the 10 most asked questions that expats sent in to ExpatTaxThailand in preparation for the 1 hour webinar.  

 

One question was if a person had no assessable income for 2024 do they still need to file a return and the lawyer's answer was, No.

 

Another question dealt with used of "credit cards" to buy stuff in Thailand and the lawyer said credit cards are "not" listed as income in the Revenue Dept code.   

 

Another question dealt with the pre-2024 income exemption as to if that applied to cash only like in your bank account and investment accts also.  The lawyer's answer for "cash only"  accounts. 

[SHA 2 BKK]

I think that its becoming clearer and clearer that exempt remittances (LTR Visa, DTA protected income, pre 2024 Income et al) doesn't need to reported and filed.

 

Guavamans' post as oldcpu noted earlier seems to make this a certainty.  

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Another question dealt with the pre-2024 income exemption as to if that applied to cash only like in your bank account and investment accts also.  The lawyer's answer for "cash only"  accounts. 

Guavaman had an exchange with TRD, with the same question:

 

Quote

Q6: Is a statement from a financial institution that is a stock brokerage acceptable evidence to show cash income derived prior to 1 January 2024 in a brokerage account as of 31 December 2023?

A6: A statement from a financial institution that is a stock brokerage is acceptable evidence to show cash income derived prior to 1 January 2024 in a brokerage account as of 31 December 2023.

Expatthai tax vs TRD ('tho it wasn't at the highest level of TRD).

[oldcpu]

45 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Guavaman had an exchange with TRD, with the same question:

 

Expatthai tax vs TRD ('tho it wasn't at the highest level of TRD).

 

Guavaman did note a number of times the RD official on the Tax help line (?) could not answer his question, so they went off line for a while to consult with someone else.

 

With respect to Expatthai tax ...  I will place more faith in the answer of an RD official who takes the time to check than I do with Expatthai tax.

[Pib]

One thing I don't particularly like about some tax company webinars is where they have a representative from the TRD who speaks no or little English.  So, the tax company representative who is a Thai and also fluent in English asks the question to the TRD rep in Thai....then TRD rep gives an answer for a few minutes in Thai....and then the tax company rep converts that answer to a short reply in English.  Anytime someone speaks in a language I don't fully understand for say 3 minutes and the fluent translator converts that to say a 30 second short answer in English, I feel like important details of the answer may have got lost or completely left out in the translation.    

 

But hey, this is Thailand...the national language is Thai...I don't expect Thais to be fluent in English (or really know any English) since I'm not fluent in Thai.  

[oldcpu]

I was scrolling through one of the (many) Thailand tax threads, and it pointed to a link on Expat Tax Thailand web page which lead me to a very good Expat Thailand FAQ (question and answer page).  The page was very good, but unfortunately I believe their interpretations on some LTR visa aspects are out of date given more recent clarifications. 

 

I posted my observations on that AseanNow tax page.

 

 

Note i am no tax expert. This is not tax advice. i recommend if the above affects one's financial strategy/actions, that one should take the time to confirm themselves, possibly by phoning the Thai tax help line (try to get a knowledgeable Thai speaker to translate for one).

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

@oldcpu

     Below is a  partial quote from your post directly above.  While I was of the same mindset as your observation until  a few weeks ago, I'm now of the mindset just as stated by Expat Tax that it only applies to remitted funds from the previous tax year with the previous tax year meaning 2023 or before since the tax year we are all talking about "right now" is tax year 2024.  Even thou we submit tax returns in early 2025 that tax return is all about 2024 income....not the current 2025, but 2024 remitted income.    And if we fast forward a few years if bringing in income during say 2027 it would need to be income derived in 2026 or before to be tax exempt under RD743 which applied to LTR visa holders.

 

I think the key word is "derived", repeat, derived which was is not in the ExpatTax answer but is the  word used in RD743 regarding LTR tax exemption which I have also partially quoted below   RD743, which is still in effect, that came out in 2022 well before the Revenue Department's Por 161 ruling came out in 2023....and as mentioned RD743 is still in effect.   A revenue dept directive signed by the prime minister of the time not the much lower ranking revenue dept director.

 

Now here's my example of my current mindset when I disregard when filing a tax return for a certain tax year (like filing in early 2025 for tax year 2024) because "when" a person files the paperwork for a certain tax year that filing window/date is really just a distractor...what is key is the actual tax year being talked/filed for regardless of whatever month of the following year you actually file the tax return for the tax year your filing applies to.

 

Example: if I have an LTR Pensioner visa and remitted Bt1M say on 31 Dec 2024 that remittance would be taxable (assessable) if that Bt1M was also "derived", repeat, derived anytime in 2024 like it was a Cap Gains distro, 401K/IRA distribution, dividends/interest, employment, etc. Notice the focus is on when the income was "derived."   But if that Bt1M was derived before 2024 (like in 2023 or before) then it would not be accessible/taxable.   Yes, that sounds exactly like the "old" rule for everyone."   And I'm completely disregarding Por 162 that talks pre-2024 cash income being non-assessable when remitted regardless of what time of visa  a person has.

 

Basically, the "old" rule that applied to everyone to include those who do not have an LTR visa which would also mean the tax exemption for a Wealthy Pensioner in RD743 was nothing new at the time of RD743's issue; instead, it was merely pointing out a rule that already existed for everyone up until that rule was changed in 2023 by Por 161 which stripped that option for most everyone except certain LTR Visa holders since that rule existed in RD743 which is still active.  A rule that already existed and BOI just used it for advertising purposes...making it sound like a new tax exemption when in fact it wasn't.  Now what was new was the 17% tax income tax rate for the LTR Highly Skilled Professional Category.

 

And "if" my mindset is right then that also means when in 2022 BOI first started advertising the LTR visa for certain LTR visas such at WP, WGC, and WFTP  as being tax exempt it was "not" something new under the tax code at the time....but many of us took it as something brand new.   

 

Yeap, that's my mindset of the day when I add the key word of "derived" from RD743 into this confusing tax mix.  Has your mindset considered the "derived" word---not to imply you haven't and your mindset is not the correct mindset.

 

 

Quote from oldcpu's  post directly above

 

Quote

 

Example-3 :

Q: Can you please confirm that Wealthy Pensioner LTR Visa holders are exempt from tax on foreign source income remitted to Thailand

 

Expat Tax:  Yes, the Wealthy Pensioner LTR is exempt from foreign sourced income if remitted the following tax year.

 

My observation:   This is correct but it is misleading.  It would have been better to note the Expat Tax answer applies to the year of the visa application.  Once one has had the LTR visa for more than one year, the 'following tax year' observation becomes a mute point, as tax returns are always submitted for tax on the previous year.  Interpreting the Royal Decree 743 to state foreign income remitted in the year of earning being taxable is incorrect.

 

 

 

Partial Quote from RD743 but I did the bold text the phrase of: ".....derived in the previous tax year..."

Quote

Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and brought into Thailand.

 

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

@oldcpu

    While I was of the same mindset as your observation until  a few weeks ago, I'm now of the mindset just as stated by Expat Tax that it only applies to remitted funds from the previous tax year with the previous tax year meaning 2023 or before since the tax year we are all talking about "right now" is tax year 2024. 

 

 

 

It would be good at some point in time to get a Thai RD ruling on this specific example.

 

This doesn't affect me as I have most my funds outside of Thailand (much more than a year's pension income outside of Thailand) so its easy for me to make the case (and prove such remitted income to Thailand) is income  from a prior year (more precisely from savings going back over a decade or more).  And in part por.161/162 makes this a bit of a mute point for myself as well.

 

Still - clarity would be nice.  Not everyone is as fortunate as myself.

[Pib]

26 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

It would be good at some point in time to get a Thai RD ruling on this specific example.

 

This doesn't affect me as I have most my funds outside of Thailand (much more than a year's pension income outside of Thailand) so its easy for me to make the case (and prove such remitted income to Thailand) is income  from a prior year (more precisely from savings going back over a decade or more).  And in part por.161/162 makes this a bit of a mute point for myself as well.

 

Still - clarity would be nice.  Not everyone is as fortunate as myself.

Yea....ditto for me.   

 

But please think about that "...derived in the previous tax year..." wording in RD743 when the tax year we are all talking about now is tax year 2024 for tax return filing purposes.

 

 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

And "if" my mindset is right then that also means when in 2022 BOI first started advertising the LTR visa for certain LTR visas such at WP, WGC, and WFTP  as being tax exempt it was "not" something new under the tax code at the time....but many of us took it as something brand new.   

Makes no sense, if BOI is trying to sell a new product that will give you a tax advantage over the guy without a LTR visa.... Definitely something lost in translation here. Furthermore, enough folks have queried BOI on this tax advantage -- and have been told ALL remitted assessable income is tax exempt. Certainly you could take those replies to TRD, should you somehow be queried about a tax return you never filed, because you have a LTR visa.

 

This is certainly a possible gray area. And, as I found out dealing with the IRS, if you've got a supportable position, the worst that can happen is pay back taxes, with interest. No fraud, no intended tax evasion, no fine.

 

So, if you remitted assessable income in 2024 of 2024 income -- take the gray area to your advantage, meaning, don't file a tax return. Hopefully, further clarification about this will come along -- and I doubt what we hear will leave egg on BOI's face.