LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[ThailandRyan]

I received an E-mail requesting that I complete the Work Permit request form, which was listed on the Website also when I checked on the status of my application, even though I checked the NO box under do you wish to receive a work permit.  So I created a Word Document in which I stated that I did not want a work permit and declined the offer, I then submitted it via the website.  I was also asked to supply a photo, of which I scanned one into my computer and added it to the application as well.  Waiting to see what happens on Monday or Tuesday after the lady reviewing my application reviews the information.

[Lacrimas]

On 9/2/2022 at 7:16 PM, JimGant said:

I always smile at this argument. My 800k to Thailand came from the left side of my retirement portfolio, ie, the mattress side, or the preservation of capital side. At USAA, it earns .08% in a savings account (my Bangkok Bank earns .25% -- but, hey, why quibble about nothing vs nothing...). I guess I could repatriate my 800k, and put it into CDs, paying slightly more than Bangkok Bank -- but why? My 35% of retirement portfolio in securities has, lately, bounced up and down $10,000/day (mostly down). Why would I worry about chump change earnings in regards to my 800k baht here, or there?

 

The other aspect of this is, all of my estate is financial, and except for what's in Bangkok Bank, this is all in the US. Now, my American nephews and nieces are tabbed as beneficiaries for the IRA and insurance accounts, and as POD (Pay on Death) recipients for my other financial accounts. No lawyer needed, no probate -- easy peasy for the US relatives.

 

But my Thai relatives? With no SSN or ITIN, there's no POD or beneficiary route to have designated assets sent their way upon my death. I'm not about to hire a US lawyer just for this aspect. Solution? Bring most of what I want to leave to those Thai relatives over to my bank accounts here in Thailand. No, I don't lay awake at night worrying about the soundnest of Thai banks. And I don't worry about .08% vs .25% in interest differences -- the daily FX change shatters that comparison.

 

So, I guess I'll continue to chuckle when I read about folks who argue about all the money they're losing by parking 800k in a Thai bank. To me, this sounds like their entire retirement portfolio is in securities....... If that's the case, then, yeah, they're definitely not in a flexible situation -- to allow the left end of their retirement portfolio to reside in Thailand. 

 

 

True, I mean he makes 80k USD a year and complains about 20k locked away in a Thai bank account... (which by the way can be seen as a security deposit in case his life blows up and needs money to go back home) should be peanuts for him and makes no sense.

[pepper402]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

I received an E-mail requesting that I complete the Work Permit request form, which was listed on the Website also when I checked on the status of my application, even though I checked the NO box under do you wish to receive a work permit.  So I created a Word Document in which I stated that I did not want a work permit and declined the offer, I then submitted it via the website.  I was also asked to supply a photo, of which I scanned one into my computer and added it to the application as well.  Waiting to see what happens on Monday or Tuesday after the lady reviewing my application reviews the information.

I had the exact same requests!  I also checked "NO" for the work permit and was asked to complete a work permit request, and supply a photo.   I scanned the exact same photo as my  passport photo and hope they won't do the math and recognize that it's nine years old.

[Northwest87]

10 hours ago, JimGant said:

Don't know. The Tricare Overseas Program, with Singapore servicing Thailand, are pretty professional and helpful in my experience. Now, if LTR only required a letterheaded one page, stating that I meet their insurance requirement -- maybe Singapore would cooperate. But, since Tricare doesn't issue policies, they and LTR folks might end up on different frequencies. And Singapore would punt if too much red tape. Anyway, that's why the option to self-insure, which fits nicely with me, was such welcomed news.

I understand. Thanks for the clarifications.

NW

[Northwest87]

20 hours ago, keemapoot said:

Yup, I have Cigna with the same issue, which is a 2 million dollar limit so vastly above what is required, but the term runs from Jan 1 to Dec 31 each year. Therefore, I will have to wait and time my application after Jan 1 but before the end of Feb. This seems to be a silly "jump through the hoops" issue as with yearly issued private insurance you can only apply when you have 10 months of coverage left.

It looks to me like this is what I'll have to do too, although I'll check with my insurer to see if they're willing to help with a letter of justification. In view of the annual gov employees FEHB open season, in which retirees can also participate and switch insurer, I think the insurer might balk since technically they don't know if I will renew or switch.

[pepper402]

2 hours ago, Northwest87 said:

It looks to me like this is what I'll have to do too, although I'll check with my insurer to see if they're willing to help with a letter of justification. In view of the annual gov employees FEHB open season, in which retirees can also participate and switch insurer, I think the insurer might balk since technically they don't know if I will renew or switch.

I was able to get a letter from Blue Cross Blue Shield stating that my policy expires in 2099 but they would not write anything about my policy limits - since I don't have any.   It took me four tries. The first letter detailed my copay and deductible which could have easily confused BOI staff. the LTR requirements state that my insurance will cover $50 K or more and I can't get that in writing so.... we'll see.   I'm in "pending" status.   

[Northwest87]

47 minutes ago, pepper402 said:

I was able to get a letter from Blue Cross Blue Shield stating that my policy expires in 2099 but they would not write anything about my policy limits - since I don't have any.   It took me four tries. The first letter detailed my copay and deductible which could have easily confused BOI staff. the LTR requirements state that my insurance will cover $50 K or more and I can't get that in writing so.... we'll see.   I'm in "pending" status.   

Interesting; I'm with AFPSA so I might have the same problem on similar policies.

 

How about dropping the "$50K or more" wording? That might be the ticket. The BOI requirement is that applicants have **at least** US$50K of coverage. Would the US insurer consent to write a statement to the effect that the policy will cover a US$50K, or better yet $100K (the statement is still true) medical bill incurred in Thailand? No "or more" wording. That might be a way to get it done from a US "cover your ass" point of view since you are only asking for a true statement not subject to interpretation (they will indeed cover the stated amount, never mind if it's more or less). A higher than $50K stated amount is better because otherwise the insurer might want to include a cover-your ass statement about your deductible(s) or maximum annual out-of-pocket (mine is $5K). Presumably, the US insurer is not going to ask you for a BOI written justification of what the guaranteed amount needs to be.

 

NW

Edited September 4, 2022 by Northwest87

[keemapoot]

5 minutes ago, Northwest87 said:

Interesting; I'm with AFPSA so I might have the same problem.

 

How about dropping the "$50K or more" wording? That might be the ticket. The BOI requirement is that applicants have **at least** US$50K of coverage. Would the US insurer write a statement to the effect that the policy will cover a US$50K, or better yet $100K (the statement is still true) medical bill incurred in Thailand? No "or more" wording. That might be a way to get it done from a US "cover your ass" point of view since you are only asking for a true statement not subject to interpretation (they will indeed cover the stated amount, never mind if it's more or less). A higher than $50K stated amount is better because otherwise the insurer might want to include a cover-your ass statement about your deductible(s) or maximum annual out-of-pocket (mine is $5K). Any amount not subject to hair-splitting when it gets to the BOI.

 

NW

My thought is they won't care about the deductible, and probably could understand foreign policies have much higher limits than 50k. I think the difficulty will come with the 10 months remaining, as policies are issued year-to-year (usually calendar year). That means most of us will have a window to apply of only January/Feb each year, and that window will be squeezed, depending of the amount of time the application takes. If that takes too long, we will be closed out of the window.

 

Very ineffective and unrealistic program design.

[Northwest87]

3 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

My thought is they won't care about the deductible, and probably could understand foreign policies have much higher limits than 50k. I think the difficulty will come with the 10 months remaining, as policies are issued year-to-year (usually calendar year). That means most of us will have a window to apply of only January/Feb each year, and that window will be squeezed, depending of the amount of time the application takes. If that takes too long, we will be closed out of the window.

 

Very ineffective and unrealistic program design.

Agreed, but in the case of pepper402, his insurance covers him with a statement his policy is good until 2099, but not with the guaranteed minimum coverage statement.

[keemapoot]

6 minutes ago, Northwest87 said:

Agreed, but in the case of pepper402, his insurance covers him with a statement his policy is good until 2099, but not with the guaranteed minimum coverage statement.

Another issue they may not have anticipated is that some policies limit the time frame on overseas coverage. My policy is a truly global policy with full coverage in Thailand, but I know some are not. So, they will probably need to see and read the insurance certificate, the schedule of benefits, and maybe even the terms and conditions. So, this insurance requirement I think will be a major stumbling block for them and us.

 

It might be that the 100k in the bank outside thailand might just be easier and eliminate brain damage, for those who can.

Edited September 4, 2022 by keemapoot

[Northwest87]

1 minute ago, keemapoot said:

Another issue they may not have anticipated is that some policies limit the time frame on overseas coverage. My policy is a truly global policy with full coverage in Thailand, but I know some are not. So, they will probably need to see and read the insurance certificate, the schedule of benefits, and maybe even the terms and conditions. So, this insurance requirement I think will be a major stumbling block for them and us.

I'm not worried about that part because it would be relatively easy to prove from existing brochures and public documentation online. People on this thread who are currently applying are truly taking one for the boys. ????

[ThailandRyan]

10 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

True, I mean he makes 80k USD a year and complains about 20k locked away in a Thai bank account... (which by the way can be seen as a security deposit in case his life blows up and needs money to go back home) should be peanuts for him and makes no sense.

Your hilarious.  Money is to be used not only in life but for making more money, I guess to you 20k USD is chump change and you do not care about it, where I look at its value and ability to create more wealth.  I think your viewpoint is to narrow, either that or your old and set in your ways......

Edited September 5, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Lacrimas]

53 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your hilarious.  Money is to be used not only in life but for making more money, I guess to you 20k USD is chump change and you do not care about it, where I look at its value and ability to create more wealth.  I think your viewpoint is to narrow, either that or your old and set in your ways......

And you make no sense at all, this visa is for high earners and 20k is pocket change for them. You are doing this only to avoid some paperwork at the immigration, not for 'investing' (what kind of investment do you do with so little money that is so attractive to you? I'm curious?) and/or you are just bummed that some of your money is locked away in a bank account which I understand but then just choose the monthly income option for retirees. Do an O-X visa, no? Honestly I don't find anything that intriguing in this program.

 

For people working here I understand, there is actually some taxation advantage, it might become a game changer but for a retiree? Not so much.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Lacrimas

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

And you make no sense at all, this visa is for high earners and 20k is pocket change for them. You are doing this only to avoid some paperwork at the immigration 

20K is never pocket change for anyone when it can be invested and make more money.  You are naïve to believe so.  The LTR Visa is directed at those that can afford it and spend money in the country.  You must believe that people become and stay wealthy by throwing away money.....just laughable.  Jealousy comes to mind when I read your post.  Owning my own condo, and home here as well as 3 homes in the US with a nice portfolio as well as a Defined Benefit Pension which is guaranteed for life and of more than 80K USD a year, does not make me a wealthy individual in my view, but it does qualify for this VISA......tell me again how I am dong this just to avoid paperwork. 

 

If I Obtained my annual extension here at 1900 Thb, paid 3500Thb for a ME re-entry permit, kept money in the bank (800k) making no interest except a pittance for the next 10 years, paid for the bank documents, paid for fuel to and from immigration as well as taking the time to do the paperwork and drive annually, this Visa in the end is cheaper and saves me money which can be used elsewhere.....but to you it is a waste.....

Edited September 5, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Lacrimas]

26 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

20K is never pocket change for anyone when it can be invested and make more money.  You are naïve to believe so.  The LTR Visa is directed at those that can afford it and spend money in the country.  You must believe that people become and stay wealthy by throwing away money.....just laughable.  Jealousy comes to mind when I read your post.  Owning my own condo, and home here as well as 3 homes in the US with a nice portfolio as well as a Defined Benefit Pension which is guaranteed for life and of more than 80K USD a year, does not make me a wealthy individual in my view, but it does qualify for this VISA......tell me again how I am dong this just to avoid paperwork. 

 

If I Obtained my annual extension here at 1900 Thb, paid 3500Thb for a ME re-entry permit, kept money in the bank (800k) making no interest except a pittance for the next 10 years, paid for the bank documents, paid for fuel to and from immigration as well as taking the time to do the paperwork and drive annually, this Visa in the end is cheaper and saves me money which can be used elsewhere.....but to you it is a waste.....

We are just talking and I'm trying to understand what's the value of this opportunity because I don't see much but you have to go personal insulting me. Okay you have made your choice, enjoy it. Jealous of what? You don't know me and I don't know you. If I was an old geezer like you I wouldn't do this.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Lacrimas

[ThailandRyan]

19 minutes ago, Lacrimas said:

We are just talking and I'm trying to understand what's the value of this opportunity because I don't see much but you have to go personal insulting me. Okay you have made your choice, enjoy it. Jealous of what? You don't know me and I don't know you. If I was an old geezer like you I wouldn't do this.

Old geezer, nice at 57 far from an old geezer. It has been explained many times to you about the value of this LTR to those that can qualify for it.  Should I stay with the way I have been doing i and spend the same amount of money over a 10 year period and loose the use of 800k, or $21.762 in todays value, or take the money to be invested somewhere else where the money can make more money?  Your view is narrow.

[arithai12]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

20K is never pocket change for anyone when it can be invested and make more money.  You are naïve to believe so.  The LTR Visa is directed at those that can afford it and spend money in the country.  You must believe that people become and stay wealthy by throwing away money.....just laughable.  Jealousy comes to mind when I read your post.  Owning my own condo, and home here as well as 3 homes in the US with a nice portfolio as well as a Defined Benefit Pension which is guaranteed for life and of more than 80K USD a year, does not make me a wealthy individual in my view, but it does qualify for this VISA......tell me again how I am dong this just to avoid paperwork. 

 

If I Obtained my annual extension here at 1900 Thb, paid 3500Thb for a ME re-entry permit, kept money in the bank (800k) making no interest except a pittance for the next 10 years, paid for the bank documents, paid for fuel to and from immigration as well as taking the time to do the paperwork and drive annually, this Visa in the end is cheaper and saves me money which can be used elsewhere.....but to you it is a waste.....

ok you have decided that it's more money-efficient for you to do it this way, go ahead, why do you have to antagonize everybody else that has taken a different decision? Do you really think that we are all stupid and only you have realized that it's possible to make the 800k be more productive? Accept that different people have different priorities in life.

[ThailandRyan]

9 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

ok you have decided that it's more money-efficient for you to do it this way, go ahead, why do you have to antagonize everybody else that has taken a different decision? Do you really think that we are all stupid and only you have realized that it's possible to make the 800k be more productive? Accept that different people have different priorities in life.

How am I antagonizing anyone, you mean by explaining why it works for myself and others? I am not the only one who has applied and are possibly doing it for the same reasons. In no way shape or form is a debate with an explanation antagonist in nature.

[keemapoot]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

How am I antagonizing anyone, you mean by explaining why it works for myself and others? I am not the only one who has applied and are possibly doing it for the same reasons. In no way shape or form is a debate with an explanation antagonist in nature.

In any event, your information is valuable and I and probably many others would greatly appreciate you keeping us informed of your progress, as we also have plans to apply. I would like to know what type of documentation you will need to provide on everything, as well as insurance requirements.

 

For me the analysis is simple: 10 years of LTR (with almost no reporting, no re-entry permit requirement, and priority entry) vs. 10 years of doing the Non-O game every year for the same price. Guess which one wins?

[JimGant]

Quote

......the Thai tax code says their income is only taxable if they bring the funds into Thailand in the year it's earned.  Tax professionals say that's wrong.

Well, I guess not all tax professionals, as I would say KPMG employs some very high standard tax professionals:

 

Quote

Thailand imposes an income tax on the Thai-sourced income of both resident and non-residents individuals, regardless of whether such income is paid in or outside of Thailand. Residents are also subject to income tax on foreign-source income that is paid in or remitted to Thailand within the same calendar year in which the income is paid. The maximum tax rate applicable to both residents and non-residents is 35 percent.

https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2021/09/thailand-taxation-of-international-executives.html

Just filter all foreign earnings through well established bank and savings accounts, that go back at least until last year. Then, bring to Thailand the amounts you wish, staying below last year's top balance. Fungibility of money is a wonderful thing.

[tomazbodner]

On 7/10/2022 at 3:17 PM, GroveHillWanderer said:

If I'm being honest, I don't expect to see a whole bunch of people both qualifying and applying for this new LTR visa.

Unless it's the only one left available.

[Misty]

39 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Well, I guess not all tax professionals, as I would say KPMG employs some very high standard tax professionals:

 

Just filter all foreign earnings through well established bank and savings accounts, that go back at least until last year. Then, bring to Thailand the amounts you wish, staying below last year's top balance. Fungibility of money is a wonderful thing.

I think we're saying the same things, but just to be clear in this context: 

 

* Thai-sourced income is income earned from/while working in Thailand.  Doesn't matter if it's paid into a foreign bank account. 

 

* Foreign sourced income would be dividends/interest/capital gains. Not from working

 

Lots of moving parts here so not sure of the full details in the quotations in your post above. I've talked to KPMG (and others) about this subject.

 

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

but for a retiree? Not so much.

I guess you didn't read my previous input....?  Right now, stuck with OA extensions, that cost 70k baht a year in health insurance premiums, 'cause Imm can't figure out how to honor my Tricare insurance that would do away with the need for TGIA health insurance. Thus, ten years of premiums down the road is slightly more than chump change (700k baht). And, yeah, I could do a border hop and switch to an extension based on a Non Imm O visa. But, I'm sure, as soon as I did that, TGIA medical insurance would incorporate retirees on O extensions. Why take the chance, if I don't have to?

 

No, since I can finance all the requirements, save 700k baht in health premiums, reduce trips to Imm from 10 to 2 -- that in itself makes it worthwhile. The rest doesn't add any benefit -- 90 day extensions take 20 seconds online these days; I don't travel, so free reentry permits don't resonate, as don't hand holding at airport Immigration; and I don't need to repatriate 800k to the US, since I'm planning to add more over here, re estate planning for my Thai relatives.

 

So, one size doesn't fit all. And, right now, LTR looks pretty good to me. Fortunately, I just renewed my OA extension, so I've got time to see how this sorts out for others. BoI seems squared away, so that part of the equation doesn't worry me. It's when I arrive at Imm, with my BoI paperwork, and get greeted with a resounding "Duh" -- is what I worry about. Hopefully Imm will get sufficient marching orders to integrate this new visa into their operating orders. But, if past is prologue.....heads up.

[Misty]

4 hours ago, arithai12 said:

ok you have decided that it's more money-efficient for you to do it this way, go ahead, why do you have to antagonize everybody else that has taken a different decision? Do you really think that we are all stupid and only you have realized that it's possible to make the 800k be more productive? Accept that different people have different priorities in life.

Not sure who is antagonizing who here.

 

Some people are posting about their decision to apply for LTR visa/work permit, and details on the process which is helping other interested folk. Nothing wrong with that. And their posts are appreciated by others who are interested in the program.

 

Others are questioning why they are doing so.  What is odd is the antagonism from those folks.  Okay, they don't get it, but what difference does it make if others find the program useful?  You've lost nothing, you're not interested in LTR (but keep posting here about it anyways), your annual extension programs are still in place, no? 

 

 

[JimGant]

6 minutes ago, Misty said:

Foreign sourced income would be dividends/interest/capital gains. Not from working

Or pensions or other deferred income payouts from previous working. For Yanks, if these payouts are government pensions, the tax treaty has Thailand completely hands off from taxation, regardless of what year they're sent to Thailand. Conversely, private pensions, to include 401ks and IRAs, if sent to Thailand in year paid out -- then, per treaty, Thailand has "first dibs" in their taxation -- and while you'd also have to declare these payouts in your US tax return, due to the "saving clause" found in the tax treaty -- you'd get a tax credit for these Thai taxes, in avoidance of double taxation. Surprisingly, maybe because it cost too much to enforce, Thailand doesn't take advantage of their "first dibs" tax rights under the US-Thai tax treaty (and most other tax treaties with Thailand).

[JimGant]

I asked BoI, via email to their published address, the following question (which is probably answered earlier in this thread, but I missed it):

Quote

.....but it's not clear from your published guidance whether or not the $80,000 income stream is
gross income, or income net of taxes? Please advise. Thank you.

 

They replied within 20 minutes (how refreshing!):

Quote

Please be informed that USD 80,000 income is gross income.

 

[ThailandRyan]

OK Folks,

 

I just received an email from the LTR.BOI unit. As I already knew my HI insurance for my PCH Policy here in the Country ends on November 22nd, and my US policy I also supplied has it's annual policy period ending at the end of the year, but is a lifetime medical policy.  I am in the process of Renewing my PCH Policy early to show that it continues onward.

 

Here is what I was sent:

 

With regards to the application No. LTRWPxxxxxx registered on September 5, 2022.   Please note that your health insurance does not meet the LTR criteria (Health insurance policy covering entire course of stay in Thailand, with coverage for hospitalization treatment of no less than 50,000 USD.)  Please send new Health insurance policy with coverage for hospitalization treatment of no less than 50,000 USD after you get approval, but before making the visa issuance.   If no additional evidence is requested, you will be notified of the result on September 30, 2022 (decision timeframes will take 20 working days from September 5, 2022 excluding weekends and public holidays).   Kind regards, LTR Visa Unit

Not expecting any more evidence requests.   TR.

Edited September 5, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[pepper402]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

OK Folks,

 

I just received an email from the LTR.BOI unit. As I already knew my HI insurance for my PCH Policy here in the Country ends on November 22nd, and my US policy I also supplied has it's annual policy period ending at the end of the year, but is a lifetime medical policy.  I am in the process of Renewing my PCH Policy early to show that it continues onward.

 

Here is what I was sent:

 

With regards to the application No. LTRWPxxxxxx registered on September 5, 2022.   Please note that your health insurance does not meet the LTR criteria (Health insurance policy covering entire course of stay in Thailand, with coverage for hospitalization treatment of no less than 50,000 USD.)  Please send new Health insurance policy with coverage for hospitalization treatment of no less than 50,000 USD after you get approval, but before making the visa issuance.   If no additional evidence is requested, you will be notified of the result on September 30, 2022 (decision timeframes will take 20 working days from September 5, 2022 excluding weekends and public holidays).   Kind regards, LTR Visa Unit

Not expecting any more evidence requests.   TR.

 

[pepper402]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

The LTR states that we will receive a reply within 20 days.  The email states that I will receive a reply in exactly 20 business days...   I sent them a Line question - not read and no reply...  ????

 

[keemapoot]

11 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

OK Folks,

 

I just received an email from the LTR.BOI unit. As I already knew my HI insurance for my PCH Policy here in the Country ends on November 22nd, and my US policy I also supplied has it's annual policy period ending at the end of the year, but is a lifetime medical policy.  I am in the process of Renewing my PCH Policy early to show that it continues onward.

 

Here is what I was sent:

 

With regards to the application No. LTRWPxxxxxx registered on September 5, 2022.   Please note that your health insurance does not meet the LTR criteria (Health insurance policy covering entire course of stay in Thailand, with coverage for hospitalization treatment of no less than 50,000 USD.)  Please send new Health insurance policy with coverage for hospitalization treatment of no less than 50,000 USD after you get approval, but before making the visa issuance.   If no additional evidence is requested, you will be notified of the result on September 30, 2022 (decision timeframes will take 20 working days from September 5, 2022 excluding weekends and public holidays).   Kind regards, LTR Visa Unit

Not expecting any more evidence requests.   TR.

So, I think my suspicions were correct, that for those of us who have yearly calendar-year issued policies, (in my case Jan 1-Dec 31), then there is indeed a narrow window only once a year for LTR application if you intend to use this insurance. Based on the 20 day (working or otherwise) rule stated, it sounds like the best thing is to apply maybe at the beginning of December, and wait for a "contingent approval" as they mention, then after Jan 1 and the new policy is issued make the formal application with the renewed policy?