ThailandRyan Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, JimGant said: A visa is not a permission of stay. It's just documentation that allows you to enter Thailand and be considered by Immigration for a period of stay -- 60 days, 90 days, 365 days (one year), as long as that visa is valid. For a LTR visa, that means you have a five year period to enter Thailand as many times as you'd like, receiving a one-year permission of stay stamp each time. For frequent travelers, this is ideal -- never ever having to visit Imm as long as you leave Thailand before that one year stamp expires. Otherwise, yep, you have to visit Imm to get an "extension of stay" off of that expiring "permission of stay" -- just like you would off of an expiring "permission of stay" stamp from an OA visa. Difference here: OA visa gives you only a one year time frame to exit and reenter Thailand for another one-year stay -- while the LTR visa gives you five years (with a renewable five year option). So, not as tidy as one might think -- I've got to go to Imm once a year now to renew my "permission of stay" (with an "extension of stay") off of my OA visa -- euphemistically a so-called "visa extension." But if my desire is to never see Imm again, an LTR visa (and Elite Visa) leave me in the same situation I'm in now, namely, must visit Imm once a year. So, what's the advantage, particularly after all the additional cost...? Your acting like the LTR Visa does not have any advantages over the annual extension of stay, yet it has so many. If you do not travel and all you ever do is stay in Thailand then the LTR Visa is not what you need. The Elite Visa also is meant for folks who travel, but if you do not then yes you have to go to immigration at the end of your year and pay the 1900 baht for another 1 year stamp. This LTR Visa is run through the BOI and not Immigration itself. There is a big difference in the facilitation of each one. If it is not to your standards then so be it, but please stop with the misinformation equating it to an Elite Visa but cheaper, or an annual extension of stay, it is neither. Here are the advantages it holds over an extension of stay and an elite visa: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: and each time you return you are stamped in for a year based upon having the 5 year visa sticker in your passport. Yes, great for frequent fliers. For us old folks, who never travel, explain how I update the requirement for a one year permission of stay stamp....without having to go to Imm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Just now, JimGant said: Yes, great for frequent fliers. For us old folks, who never travel, explain how I update the requirement for a one year permission of stay stamp....without having to go to Imm? Then obviously this LTR Visa is not something that works for you, just like an Elite Visa, and the annual extension of stay is a better fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: If you do not travel and all you ever do is stay in Thailand then the LTR Visa is not what you need. The Elite Visa also is meant for folks who travel, but if you do not then yes you have to go to immigration at the end of your year and pay the 1900 baht for another 1 year stamp. My point exactly. But, not sure where you're coming from with this: Quote It makes no sense because a visa IS a permission to stay. So how could you need an annual "permission to stay" when you already have a 5-year visa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 19 minutes ago, JimGant said: My point exactly. But, not sure where you're coming from with this: The quote you attributed to me was from another poster. Your getting he and I mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Woops, my mistake. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraplaneGuy Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said: Yes the annual visit is the equal of doing a 90 day report and that is it, it is not for getting a permission to stay stamp, it is a 1 year report equal to the 90 day. You can leave the country many times and re-enter as you wish with not having to do a re-entry permit, and each time you return you are stamped in for a year based upon having the 5 year visa sticker in your passport. Many folks are trying to equate it to the Elite Visa which it is not. Thanks - where is it written about the report being equivalent to the 90 day? Also has it been said whether you’d have to submit a Form TM30 along with it (as some offices require with a 90-day report if doing it in person)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misty Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 2 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said: Thanks - where is it written about the report being equivalent to the 90 day? Also has it been said whether you’d have to submit a Form TM30 along with it (as some offices require with a 90-day report if doing it in person)? From the BoI's LTR website: https://ltr.boi.go.th/# 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keemapoot Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 9 hours ago, JimGant said: Yes, great for frequent fliers. For us old folks, who never travel, explain how I update the requirement for a one year permission of stay stamp....without having to go to Imm? You do bring up a good point about those who no longer travel so much. In addition, the LTR is really only five years, requiring complete qualification again five years later, where perhaps the rules might change again regarding insurance, or whatever, and if exchange rates change, some people might not qualify on the income part then. Meanwhile, the applicant will have paid in advance the 50k, so if you now look at it as only a five year guarantee, if that, it puts the overall price double that of doing yearly Non-O retirement extensions/w reentry permits for 10 years. That combined with the unknowns as you have mentioned, have caused me to reconsider applying. I think I will wait to see how this shakes out in a year maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritTim Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 10 hours ago, JimGant said: Quote It makes no sense because a visa IS a permission to stay. So how could you need an annual "permission to stay" when you already have a 5-year visa? I have not studied all the details of the LTR, but I can assure you that, in Thailand, there is a clear distinction between a visa and a permission to stay. To simplify, the visa controls what happens when you enter the country; the permission to stay indicates when you must either leave the country or have your permission to stay extended. It appears the LTR works like the Elite visa in terms of your permission to stay. You have a five-year multiple entry visa, but each time you enter the country you receive a permission to stay of a year. Since the LTR is handled via the one-stop centre, they arrange that an address report and extension of your permission to stay occur at the same time (should they be necessary because you did not exit and re-enter Thailand over the prior 12 months). There is a bit of clever marketing going on here, but it is somewhat justified. Getting the permission to stay extended when on an LTR will be very straightforward. The jury is still out on how easy getting the visa itself will turn out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 The quote about a visa being a permission of stay is from TerraplaneGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwest87 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, pepper402 said: "Final consideration process". I think they like you. I was able to reach someone by phone to ask if I can get approval (or not) by Sept 21 as I am in Thailand now and this would allow me to pay for the visa at Chamchuri Square office. Otherwise, I'm not sure I'll get this visa. The closest Embassy to me in California is seven hour drive each way and I don't think I will be back in Thailand within the prescribed 60 day window to consummate my visa. The guy I spoke with spoke English well and seemed like a nice guy but stated that approval takes 20 business days. On their website it states 'within 20 days" The way I understand what was published by the BOI is that after you get the letter of approval, you have a window of 60 days to apply for your visa at a consulate: this is not the validity date of the visa, i.e. the latest date you can enter Thailand. Even a 60-days Thai tourist visa has a validity of 3 months once issued, or used to anyway. During the recent BOI seminar, I asked in writing what the validity of the LTR visa would be, once issued. I made sure my question was clearly written. After the seminar, they handled some of the written questions and someone from the BOI answered mine in writing with: "the visa validity is the date written on the visa" ???? For planning purposes, that's something it would be interesting to know though. Regarding the LA consulate, it's also a 6-7 hours drive for me, but I had a visa issued before by sending them my passport, and that was well before the issuance of e-visas, so I would not expect to have to travel there. NW Edited September 13, 2022 by Northwest87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepper402 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 30 minutes ago, Northwest87 said: For planning purposes, that's something it would be interesting to know though. Regarding the LA consulate, it's also a 6-7 hours drive for me, but I had a visa issued before by sending them my passport, and that was well before the issuance of e-visas, so I would not expect to have to travel there. NW This LTR seems to require an in-person visit. Visa Issuance Qualified applicants may proceed with applying for LTR Visa issuance at the Royal Thai Embassies/the Royal Thai Consulate Generals overseas or Immigration offices in Thailand within 60 days from the issuance date of the endorsement letter. The processing fee for the 10-year visa with multiple entry is 50,000 Baht per person in case of collecting LTR Visa in Thailand. In the case of collecting LTR Visa at the Royal Thai Embassies/the Royal Thai Consulate Generals overseas or E-visa, fee may vary depending on the currency exchange rate of each country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, pepper402 said: This LTR seems to require an in-person visit. Visa Issuance Qualified applicants may proceed with applying for LTR Visa issuance at the Royal Thai Embassies/the Royal Thai Consulate Generals overseas or Immigration offices in Thailand within 60 days from the issuance date of the endorsement letter. The processing fee for the 10-year visa with multiple entry is 50,000 Baht per person in case of collecting LTR Visa in Thailand. In the case of collecting LTR Visa at the Royal Thai Embassies/the Royal Thai Consulate Generals overseas or E-visa, fee may vary depending on the currency exchange rate of each country. Better read the last sentence in your post, it does not require an in-person visit if done by E-Visa after being approved. "In the case of collecting LTR Visa at the Royal Thai Embassies/the Royal Thai Consulate Generals overseas or E-visa, fee may vary depending on the currency exchange rate of each country" Edited September 13, 2022 by ThailandRyan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraplaneGuy Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 For the Wealthy Pensioner category they require annual income "at the time of application" of $80K (or $40K if also investing in Thai property etc.). This is different from the Wealthy Citizen category where the $80K income has to be "in the past two years". Has anyone confirmed how they determine the Pensioner's annual income "at the time of application"? Presumably they would want to look back at least 12 months, although in theory they could look at a new pension document that shows you are now receiving at least say $9k/month and will continue to do so for the next year. Or they could insist not only on going back 12 months but on seeing a full calendar year's income, so that for example if you applied in June they would want to see you earning at the rate of $80k/year for 18 months (the year ended in December plus the recent 6 months). Any info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 33 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said: For the Wealthy Pensioner category they require annual income "at the time of application" of $80K (or $40K if also investing in Thai property etc.). This is different from the Wealthy Citizen category where the $80K income has to be "in the past two years". Has anyone confirmed how they determine the Pensioner's annual income "at the time of application"? Presumably they would want to look back at least 12 months, although in theory they could look at a new pension document that shows you are now receiving at least say $9k/month and will continue to do so for the next year. Or they could insist not only on going back 12 months but on seeing a full calendar year's income, so that for example if you applied in June they would want to see you earning at the rate of $80k/year for 18 months (the year ended in December plus the recent 6 months). Any info? I supplied a Verification of income letter from my Pensions retirement system. The verification of income shows my monthly benefit and when it started as well as stating it is a defined benefit pension which is a Lifetime Defined Benefit which will only increase as COLA's are added and will never decrease. I know that this a rare type of pension in todays world. I also submitted my past years US Income tax return with certain items redacted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraplaneGuy Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 Sounds like you’ve got it covered, as you’ve evidenced both past and forward-looking income. Just a bit frustrating that they haven’t explained what they’re looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraplaneGuy Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said: I supplied a Verification of income letter from my Pensions retirement system. The verification of income shows my monthly benefit and when it started as well as stating it is a defined benefit pension which is a Lifetime Defined Benefit which will only increase as COLA's are added and will never decrease. I know that this a rare type of pension in todays world. I also submitted my past years US Income tax return with certain items redacted. 2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said: I supplied a Verification of income letter from my Pensions retirement system. The verification of income shows my monthly benefit and when it started as well as stating it is a defined benefit pension which is a Lifetime Defined Benefit which will only increase as COLA's are added and will never decrease. I know that this a rare type of pension in todays world. I also submitted my past years US Income tax return with certain items redacted. Sounds like you’ve got it covered, as you’ve evidenced both past and forward-looking income. Just a bit frustrating that they haven’t explained what they’re looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepper402 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said: Better read the last sentence in your post, it does not require an in-person visit if done by E-Visa after being approved. "In the case of collecting LTR Visa at the Royal Thai Embassies/the Royal Thai Consulate Generals overseas or E-visa, fee may vary depending on the currency exchange rate of each country" Thank you, Ryan. I obviously failed to read this carefully and I am not familiar with the E-visa. I presume I can pay with a credit card or check and don't need anything stamped in my Passport. I will be renewing my Passport in a few months so I'm guessing there will be some required paperwork to have them change the Passport number associated with my LTR visa (if approved). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, pepper402 said: Thank you, Ryan. I obviously failed to read this carefully and I am not familiar with the E-visa. I presume I can pay with a credit card or check and don't need anything stamped in my Passport. I will be renewing my Passport in a few months so I'm guessing there will be some required paperwork to have them change the Passport number associated with my LTR visa (if approved). You will do the e-visa application on-line and then send them your passport by mail, with the approval if you have one or with the other documents requested, you will also include a return and stamped envelope for them to return it to you in. I used to do all of my Visa applications by mail which included the application and all of the paperwork as well as the paperwork and payment sent to them as I lived up near Redding, Ca. Please read the instructions on the Consulate General Los Angele's website carefully to understand what type of mail services they will accept. The individual I always received e-mails from when I had questions was Bernard, but that was when I was doing my Non-Imm O Visa applications and then my initial O-A Application. The last time I did it in person as I was flying through Los Angeles to Thailand, and decided to hang out in Hollywood for a few days, that was in 2019. For the LTR Visa it says this Ignore my comment about mailing in anything for the e-visa, this is a pop up when I just went to see the website and check the e-visa. https://thaiconsulatela.thaiembassy.org/en/index Edited September 13, 2022 by ThailandRyan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 8 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said: Has anyone confirmed how they determine the Pensioner's annual income "at the time of application"? There's another BoI site that addresses LTR application. Click on this: https://visa.boi.go.th/ Click on "Documents Required for Wealthy Pensioners" then note item 10 under "Evidence of Income:" Quote Evidence of income tax payment or annual personal income tax return Hmmm. Doesn't exactly match the income evidence found at this site: https://ltr.boi.go.th/ Anyway, believe the latter site is the main man. The site with income tax evidence appears to be a lash up of LTR added to an older SMART visa site... ... but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence that everyone's on the same page at BoI (also note the requirement for a photo -- didn't someone on this thread get asked to provide a photo (?) -- so maybe it is a requirement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, JimGant said: There's another BoI site that addresses LTR application. Click on this: https://visa.boi.go.th/ Click on "Documents Required for Wealthy Pensioners" then note item 10 under "Evidence of Income:" Hmmm. Doesn't exactly match the income evidence found at this site: https://ltr.boi.go.th/ Anyway, believe the latter site is the main man. The site with income tax evidence appears to be a lash up of LTR added to an older SMART visa site... ... but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence that everyone's on the same page at BoI (also note the requirement for a photo -- didn't someone on this thread get asked to provide a photo (?) -- so maybe it is a requirement... I was asked to provide a photo through the Application process's step 4 where you upload all of the required documents. Initially this section for adding the photo was not one that was required at the time of application and could be uploaded later like the health insurance. It was after they reviewed the application on September 5th that they then sent me an e-mail and requested I add a photo as well as the updated Health insurance policy. I did as requested and I added a passport photo I had scanned, and the updated PCH Policy to section 4. It was a few days later that I received the e-mail I posted in one of my above posts which indicated the application was under final review and I would be notified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepper402 Posted September 13, 2022 Share Posted September 13, 2022 My application now says "Processing" - sounds like progress, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraplaneGuy Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, JimGant said: There's another BoI site that addresses LTR application. Click on this: https://visa.boi.go.th/ Click on "Documents Required for Wealthy Pensioners" then note item 10 under "Evidence of Income:" Hmmm. Doesn't exactly match the income evidence found at this site: https://ltr.boi.go.th/ Anyway, believe the latter site is the main man. The site with income tax evidence appears to be a lash up of LTR added to an older SMART visa site... ... but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence that everyone's on the same page at BoI (also note the requirement for a photo -- didn't someone on this thread get asked to provide a photo (?) -- so maybe it is a requirement... Thanks, this is really inconsistent of them. The first site requires a tax return (or "tax payment" which makes no sense as it wouldn't in itself demonstrate level of income), the second site only requires "Evidence showing the incomes in current year e.g. pension". The inconsistency is that a tax return shows income in the previous, not "current" year. How you could demonstrate "annual" income in the current year remains a bit of a mystery. I'm guessing they will insist on a tax return or other proof of income for the full preceding year, but then they may also ask for proof of continuing income in the current year. For example, if you apply now, they may want to see you earned the required amount last year (tax return) but also evidence of continuing income since January of this year at the required level (pro-rated). The latter could be hard to prove if you rely on year-end statements. Edited September 14, 2022 by TerraplaneGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, TerraplaneGuy said: Thanks, this is really inconsistent of them. The first site requires a tax return (or "tax payment" which makes no sense as it wouldn't in itself demonstrate level of income), the second site only requires "Evidence showing the incomes in current year e.g. pension". The inconsistency is that a tax return shows income in the previous, not "current" year. How you could demonstrate "annual" income in the current year remains a bit of a mystery. I'm guessing they will insist on a tax return or other proof of income for the full preceding year, but then they may also ask for proof of continuing income in the current year. For example, if you apply now, they may want to see you earned the required amount last year (tax return) but also evidence of continuing income since January of this year at the required level (pro-rated). The latter could be hard to prove if you rely on year-end statements. On the actual application in step 4 where you upload documents there is this section to upload your tax documents as well as income documents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: On the actual application in step 4 where you upload documents there is this section to upload your tax documents as well as income documents Makes sense for "Wealthy Global Citizens," where you need to show two years' proof of income. So last year's tax return, like a 1040 for Yanks, would show income and related taxes. Then, for this year, you'd need statements, like what the Air Force and Social Security send me in December, i.e., new pay rates for the upcoming year. But "Wealthy Pensioners" don't need two years' worth of income proof, so not sure where they're coming from with this..... Oh, well -- my current retirement extension has 11 months to run, so I can sit back and watch the chips fall. And the only reason the LTR looks attractive to this non traveler is 'cause it provides a release from the OA health insurance requirement (and maybe in 11 months my Tricare will finally be accepted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, JimGant said: Makes sense for "Wealthy Global Citizens," where you need to show two years' proof of income. So last year's tax return, like a 1040 for Yanks, would show income and related taxes. Then, for this year, you'd need statements, like what the Air Force and Social Security send me in December, i.e., new pay rates for the upcoming year. But "Wealthy Pensioners" don't need two years' worth of income proof, so not sure where they're coming from with this..... Oh, well -- my current retirement extension has 11 months to run, so I can sit back and watch the chips fall. And the only reason the LTR looks attractive to this non traveler is 'cause it provides a release from the OA health insurance requirement (and maybe in 11 months my Tricare will finally be accepted). You still need to show insurance covering you for the year of 50k usd or more...so no it does not do away with the Insurance requirement, well maybe the 3.5 MThb portion the OA wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepper402 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 33 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said: On the actual application in step 4 where you upload documents there is this section to upload your tax documents as well as income documents I was confused by this too. Did they mean to put a comma after income? A comma changes the definition. Think: Let's eat, grandma vs. Let's eat grandma. I couldn't understand why they would want evidence of income tax payments to another jurisdiction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arithai12 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 17 hours ago, ThailandRyan said: So why the need to comment, or was it just to be a troll Mate. I am trying to assist others, something the TV now AN forum was initially set up for. You obviously are, good, but remember that this is not your personal thread, you didn't start it, and the actual OP was asking for comments in general so I think you are being harsh in calling people trolls when they are doing just that. Maybe you should start your own "story of my LTR". And since we are at it, here's my 2 cents: I really don't see the big deal in obtaining this LTR vis-a-vis the complications, at least for many of us who are already here since many years on regular retirement/marriage extensions. I think it's aimed at attracting rich newcomers. But clearly you decided it's good for you, wish you the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandRyan Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 14 minutes ago, pepper402 said: I was confused by this too. Did they mean to put a comma after income? A comma changes the definition. Think: Let's eat, grandma vs. Let's eat grandma. I couldn't understand why they would want evidence of income tax payments to another jurisdiction I understood it to be your tax returns, which we do in the US for the previous year and it shows all income earned whether from work or a pension/SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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