LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Presnock]

On 6/14/2024 at 4:20 PM, stat said:

Thanks for your post!

 

This statistic is really a sad joke. Not only are the applications very low but the decline rate at about 50% is very high. Considering that we are talking about supposedly sophisticated applicants that are in the range of 80K plus USD yearly or (nearly) jump other high hurdles something is wrong here IMHO.

 

Did anyone get any feedback from TRD or BOI regarding the exemption of all ww income (pending the possible law change in 2025). I just got an reply from BOI that the remitted income is exempted. No idea what will happen if TRD claims non remitted income has to be taxed from 2025 forward. I think TRD does not care nor have to care what BOI states. The sole arbiter what is taxable is the TRD.

 

If Thai RD states all ww income is exempted the LTR visa is by far the best option. I am really glad that my plan is to apply in 2025 or 2026 so I can see how this plays out.

wealthy pensioner is actually 2 categories - 80K or 40K plus so the approval could go to either of those two categories and not all to the 80K category.

[1tent42]

37 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

It is my understanding, that the $100k has to be in a bank savings account, not in a brokerage firm. I will need to move my cash from Fidelity to my bank.

As long as you qualify, why not continue to buy the annual health insurance?  And keep your $100K invested in the market?

 

Your bank may not pay that much interest.  The highest high yield savings account available right now is paying around 5%.  S&P 500 is returning 14.5% so far this year. Current dividend yield is 1.34%. Even if you pay for the insurance cost, you'd still be ahead.   The stock market may go down but the HYSA and MMF yields aren't guaranteed to stay high either.

[JohnnyBD]

46 minutes ago, 1tent42 said:

As long as you qualify, why not continue to buy the annual health insurance?  And keep your $100K invested in the market?

 

Your bank may not pay that much interest.  The highest high yield savings account available right now is paying around 5%.  S&P 500 is returning 14.5% so far this year. Current dividend yield is 1.34%. Even if you pay for the insurance cost, you'd still be ahead.   The stock market may go down but the HYSA and MMF yields aren't guaranteed to stay high either.

I will keep buying the insurance until I reach age 70 at which time the cost jumps up substantially. Right now that $100k is earning 5.40% in short-term CDs. As for investing it in stocks, it represents a very small part of my total investment portfolio, so I like to keep a little cash available in case I need it.

Edited June 16 by JohnnyBD

[1tent42]

27 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

I will keep buying the insurance until I reach age 70 at which time the cost jumps up substantially. Right now that $100k is earning 5.40% in short-term CDs. As for investing it in stocks, it represents a very small portion of my investment portfolio, so I like to keep a little cash available. I don't need 100% of my portfolio invested in stocks at my age.

Also, you lose flexibility on that $100K if you keep that in a bank for the health insurance requirement.  You can no longer withdraw it as you please for as long as you rely on it to remain eligible for the LTR visa.

 

Just a thought.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, 1tent42 said:

As long as you qualify, why not continue to buy the annual health insurance?  And keep your $100K invested in the market?

 

Your bank may not pay that much interest.  The highest high yield savings account available right now is paying around 5%.  S&P 500 is returning 14.5% so far this year. Current dividend yield is 1.34%. Even if you pay for the insurance cost, you'd still be ahead.   The stock market may go down but the HYSA and MMF yields aren't guaranteed to stay high either.

Once a person gets into the sixties insurance costs starts climbing fast and a person may not even be able to get insurance depending on pre-existing conditions.

 

Many folks also have government-provided home country low cost insurance coverage (like Medicare in the U.S. or free universal health care coverage like some European countries have) which means a person has little or no need for private insurance coverage while living in the home country....HOWEVER, BUT these govt insurance programs typically only provide medical coverage in the home country. 

 

So, when an older person decides they want to became an expat by living in/retiring to another country which requires a health insurance policy (which is the individual can not get or it would be very costly plus probably not cover in pre-existing conditions) the self-insuring method is a smart choice.   Sure, the person could earn higher interest is a high yield saving acct or probably the stock market but maybe most or all of that is offset by not having to pay for a pricey insurance coverage for an older person.  A younger person with no pre-existing condition can get health coverage much, much cheaper than an older person with pre-existing conditions.   Additionally, a person may have enough savings/investments that keeping a portion of it (say $100K) parked in a low yield bank acct is of zero concern to the person....getting a specific visa (along with piece of mind) was of much higher interest to the person.

 

 

 

[Thailand J]

Buying insurance or keeping 100K to qualify makes no difference to the visa.

As long as you qualify.

 To me buying the insurance which the premium is a small percentage of 100K and invest the money is the obvious choice.

Each to his own. If you have a habit of keeping  cash instead of investing there is no reason to venture into investing. I have my money in stocks no way I am going to keep 100K sitting around.

 

 

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, Thailand J said:

Each to his own. If you have a habit of keeping  cash instead of investing there is no reason to venture into investing. I have my money in stocks no way I am going to keep 100K sitting around.

No one said their cash was just sitting around earning nothing. I'm earning 5.40% in short-term CDs with my cash in Fidelity, and that $100k plus is a very small percentage of my total investment portfolio. I don't see the need to have every single dollar invested in stocks. I prefer to have a small amount of cash available just in case I need it. Like you said, to each his own. Good luck...

Edited June 16 by JohnnyBD

[Thailand J]

BOI only accepts bank deposits.

 

[JohnnyBD]

Yes, BOI only accepts the $100k in a bank savings account to self-insure, that's why I bought the insurance this time. When I turn 70 in a few years, I plan to switch to the $100k in bank savings method. I like to keep a small amount of cash available just in case of emergency or in case something happens to me. My wife would have some money to spend while they are dividing up my estate.

Edited June 16 by JohnnyBD

[Thailand J]

AXA told me I can renew until 99.

 

I have a lot less than 100K cash at anytime. I move my cash and bond into  Berkshire Hathaway which has a  1 year beta 0.55. For example if the market drops 10% BRK will drop  5.5% in theory. Over the years the stock price has increased many folds, making it almost impossible to lose money.

 

 

Edited June 16 by Thailand J

[stat]

10 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Actually, readind @stat's posts I am wondering whether we could, with RD as it stands, get taxed on all overseas income, with the remitted portion becoming deductible. TRT (This Remains Thailand) after all.

Thanks man! This is exactly what I fear could happen!

 

As much as I like BOI, at the end of the day I think it is TRD who decides on how to apply the royal degree. Even if for 2025 they do not tax ww income for the LTR holders there is no gurantee that in 2027 they decide to tax your unremitted ww income from 2026. There is just no way I will hand in and compute a statement of a brokerage account that runs to several hundert pages with exercised options, short sales, futures trading and complicated capital measures in a different currency then the THB.

[stat]

How much are you guys paying for health insurance? In Germany I can get an unlimited health insurance up to 5 years for expats for around 60USD per months. I suspect if you can find an insurance that does not include coverage for the US you could save a lot of money. The only caveat to this insurance is that you have to be a resident of Germany before leaving to Thailand. There are actually 2-3 companies here offering these prices for up to 75 years of age.

 

I will go anytime with 60USD per month instead of having 100K sitting around idle (not to mention having to pay all hospital bills). But just my opinion everyone is different.

[frankstraube]

2 hours ago, stat said:

How much are you guys paying for health insurance? In Germany I can get an unlimited health insurance up to 5 years for expats for around 60USD per months. I suspect if you can find an insurance that does not include coverage for the US you could save a lot of money. The only caveat to this insurance is that you have to be a resident of Germany before leaving to Thailand. There are actually 2-3 companies here offering these prices for up to 75 years of age.

 

I will go anytime with 60USD per month instead of having 100K sitting around idle (not to mention having to pay all hospital bills). But just my opinion everyone is different.

I can be wrong, but I think you cannot use a german health insurance, it has to be a Thailand based company approved by the BOI

 

[K2938]

51 minutes ago, frankstraube said:

I can be wrong, but I think you cannot use a german health insurance, it has to be a Thailand based company approved by the BOI

Yes, you are wrong

[Pib]

13 hours ago, frankstraube said:

I can be wrong, but I think you cannot use a german health insurance, it has to be a Thailand based company approved by the BOI

 

 

 

It can be an insurance policy from any country...it just needs to provide coverage of at least $50K USD and have at least 10 months remaining on the policy when you apply for an LTR visa.    It's  not like a Non-OA/OX visa that require Thai insurance.

 

LTR Medical Coverage Requirement

[oldcpu]

16 hours ago, stat said:

How much are you guys paying for health insurance? In Germany I can get an unlimited health insurance up to 5 years for expats for around 60USD per months.

 

 

I have an LTR visa.  While I went the self health insurance route (to satisfy BoI), in my case I also obtain excellent subsidized Global Health Insurance from Europe (from a European organisation based in Germany) as part of my pension.  

 

Combining both my 'voluntary medical insurance' and my 'Long Care Insurance', I pay about 240-euros per/month out of my pension for insurance. Further the organization where I used to work (as part of my pension) also contributes about 200-euros per month for insurance.  Currently this is via Cigna Europe.  That adds up to the equivalent of about $480 US/month equivalent payment for the Insurance, where my age is 70 and my wife age 57.  This global insurance coverage is unlimited and it is very very good - for it covers both myself and my wife.

 

My insurance, while exceeding the Thai requirements, was not accepted even though unlimited. The insurance company documentation proof I provided did not meet the format/structure requested by Thailand. I did not realize that if I would get a letter from the Insurance company stating they exceeded the $50K US$ equivalent insurance coverage, that such a letter would be accepted by BoI.  Hence I went the Self Health Insurance route ($100k US$ equivalent savings cash in a bank savings account).  So I am currently happy with the LTR - and as an additional note, I wish that the Type-OA Visa requirements for Self Health Insurance would be as flexible as BoI is with the LTR visa Health Insurance acceptance.

[oldcpu]

14 hours ago, frankstraube said:

I can be wrong, but I think you cannot use a german health insurance, it has to be a Thailand based company approved by the BOI

 

I think this is mostly the case for the Type-OA non-immigrant Visa (where the Health Insurance must be from the Thai branch of a health insurance company) but not the case for the LTR visa Health insurance requirements.

[oldcpu]

On 6/16/2024 at 7:40 AM, Ben Zioner said:

Actually, readind @stat's posts I am wondering whether we could, with RD as it stands, get taxed on all overseas income, with the remitted portion becoming deductible. TRT (This Remains Thailand) after all.

 

I am optimistic here, that the LTR visa will keep its Thai tax free status for foreign income kept out of the country and also Thailand tax free for foreign income and savings brought into the country.

 

However if one on an LTR visa was subject to tax on all overseas income, there is a good possibility for the vast majority of us, that we have already paid tax on this overseas income, and such is covered by a Double Tax Agreement (DTA) and hence possibly the main impact could be an additional paperwork exercise (having to file a Thai tax return), but with no additional direct financial impact.

 

Also, if I understand the 'wondering' (fear) , if one is taxed on overseas income not brought into Thailand but not taxed on money brought into Thailand (which reads to be contradictory) ... but if that is the case, then a simple solution if no DTA would be to bring the full amount of one's foreign income tax free into Thailand.

 

Having typed all of that, again, I am optimistic that it won't come to that, and that at least for now, the LTR visa's tax protections (as noted in a Royal decree) will be respected.

[Ben Zioner]

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

However if one on an LTR visa was subject to tax on all overseas income, there is a good possibility for the vast majority of us, that we have already paid tax on this overseas income

This is probably true if you reduce the Planet to the US. None of the EU countries taxes citizens, some tax Government pensions at source though. But how many Gvt pensions will amount to 80000 USD?, so evidently many of us have lived [near] IT free while here. Tax exemption therefore remains an important issue. Important enough to live 186 days out of country if needed.

[Ben Zioner]

14 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Also, if I understand the 'wondering' (fear) , if one is taxed on overseas income not brought into Thailand but not taxed on money brought into Thailand (which reads to be contradictory) .

It does "read contradictory", I agree. But examine RD 743 carefully, and IMHO it could lead to this somewhat absurd interpretation. Not so absurd from BOI's point of view since their job is to bring money into the country.

[oldcpu]

31 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

This is probably true if you reduce the Planet to the US. None of the EU countries taxes citizens, some tax Government pensions at source though. ...

 

Well - IMHO it is NOT confined to USA citizens in how this should be considered.

 

Canada taxes both residents AND non-residents for any income derived in Canada.  This means I pay Canadian tax on all Canadian sourced income, ... which means I pay Canadian tax on my Canadian Old Age Security, I pay Canadian tax on my Canadian Pension, and I pay Canadian tax on any interest earned from money in Canada. And that is covered by a DTA with Thailand so I do not pay double tax on that - regardless of whether I was still on a Type-O visa or on an LTR visa.

 

Further, Germany has a withholding tax on my German pension (ie I pay tax to Germany on German sourced income), even thou I live in Thailand.  An that also is covered by a DTA between Germany/the EU and Thailand, so again, I do not pay double tax on that.

 

So as I noted, I believe for many of us, for our foreign sourced income, we DO PAY TAX in the source country, and further there is a DTA agreement and we will not pay double tax.  

 

Possibly only those, who have managed to structure their income such they pay tax no where, might be concerned here.  And I suspect that 'lucky' group who did an excellent job of managing their income, are in the minority. ... I do fully appreciate they (this minority) need to watch this carefully and they may have some concerns.

Edited June 17 by oldcpu

[Ben Zioner]

29 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Well - IMHO it is NOT confined to USA citizens in how this should be considered.

 

Canada taxes both residents AND non-residents for any income derived in Canada.  This means I pay Canadian tax on all Canadian sourced income, ... which means I pay Canadian tax on my Canadian Old Age Security, I pay Canadian tax on my Canadian Pension, and I pay Canadian tax on any interest earned from money in Canada. And that is covered by a DTA with Thailand so I do not pay double tax on that - regardless of whether I was still on a Type-O visa or on an LTR visa.

 

Further, Germany has a withholding tax on my German pension (ie I pay tax to Germany on German sourced income), even thou I live in Thailand.  An that also is covered by a DTA between Germany/the EU and Thailand, so again, I do not pay double tax on that.

 

So as I noted, I believe for many of us, for our foreign sourced income, we DO PAY TAX in the source country, and further there is a DTA agreement and we will not pay double tax.  

 

Possibly only those, who have managed to structure their income such they pay tax no where, might be concerned here.  And I suspect that 'lucky' group who did an excellent job of managing their income, are in the minority. ... I do fully appreciate they (this minority) need to watch this carefully and they may have some concerns.

Yes, I was aware that government/state pensions are taxed at source in many countries. But my point was that very few will reach the 80000 USD threshold with such income. Therefore they must have other forms of pensions (or whatever) that remained untaxed while living in Thailand. The US being the exception as their citizens, wherever they live, have the duty to declare their worldwide income.

tax exempt 

 

Also, I never "structured my income", I just chose the right employers. 

[Presnock]

On 6/15/2024 at 2:11 PM, SHA 2 BKK said:

From recollection a member on this thread has been to the RD directly to apply for a TIN to cover the new requirements.    The RD said and I paraphrase “no can” as LTR Visa holders are not affected by the RD’s new directive.   You will have to scroll back some but I seem to recall.  
 

I too have the BOI email saying overseas remittances remain tax free but I am being careful to only remit 2023 savings and my DTA covered Australian Government Service Pension.  If you login to your BOI account and check each of the blocks to insure there is no "add" for additional document, then I would call or email the BOI and ask if all is okay.  Once I did that, and added the docs that they wanted, my approval was done within a week...just saying...can't hurt to call and check.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

This is probably true if you reduce the Planet to the US. None of the EU countries taxes citizens, some tax Government pensions at source though. But how many Gvt pensions will amount to 80000 USD?, so evidently many of us have lived [near] IT free while here. Tax exemption therefore remains an important issue. Important enough to live 186 days out of country if needed.

wealthy pensioner includes 40K too instead of 80K but with additional required financial status.  Can check on BOI LTR website easily.

[Presnock]

16 hours ago, frankstraube said:

I can be wrong, but I think you cannot use a german health insurance, it has to be a Thailand based company approved by the BOI

 

Yes you are wrong - can be a reputable foreign company that in my case wrote a letter and sent it via email to me for the BOI stating in fact, "the unlimited hospitalization in Thailand" covered more that 50K US dollars.  The letter was accepted immediately by the BOI as was my US health insurance.

[oldcpu]

42 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Yes, I was aware that government/state pensions are taxed at source in many countries. But my point was that very few will reach the 80000 USD threshold with such income. Therefore they must have other forms of pensions (or whatever) that remained untaxed while living in Thailand. The US being the exception as their citizens, wherever they live, have the duty to declare their worldwide income.

tax exempt 

 

Also, I never "structured my income", I just chose the right employers. 

 

My point is one need NOT reduce the "Planet to the USA" as the vast majority of us are NOT from the USA and we have already paid tax on our foreign sourced income.  I gave two EXCELLENT examples, that being Canada and Germany.  Clearly we are NOT part of "planet USA" as coined in your post but we have paid taxes elsewhere.

 

And as Presnock pointed out, one does not need $80K USD equivalent (for LTR-WP), but rather for obtaining the Thailand LTR-WP visa only $40K US equivalent, plus a $250K investment in Thailand (such as the ownership of a foreign freehold condo worth that much). MANY pensions do reach the $40K US$ equivalent (such as my pensions, if one adds them up and I hence I qualified for the LTR-WP, which I currently have).

 

Again, I believe those most concerned here are those IN A MINORITY who structured their income (either by choosing the "right" employers or by other means).  I DO CONSIDER choosing the right employer a method to 'structure one's income'. 

 

I also note the other group who may be concerned, are those in a minority whose country does not have a DTA with Thailand (and those without an LTR visa).

 

Still, I note at present time, this is ALL speculation about tax with regard to LTR visa holders. As has been posted by others, BoI when asked still maintain foreign income is NOT taxed for LTR visa holders, whether or not it is brought into Thailand.

[oldcpu]

15 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Yes you are wrong - can be a reputable foreign company that in my case wrote a letter and sent it via email to me for the BOI stating in fact, "the unlimited hospitalization in Thailand" covered more that 50K US dollars.  The letter was accepted immediately by the BOI as was my US health insurance.

 

It would be helpful, I think, for BoI note on their website that such a letter (stating > $50K US coverage) is acceptable, instead of the 'stock/generic unlimited health insurance coverage' form that some Health Insurance companies provide.

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

 

It would be helpful, I think, for BoI note on their website that such a letter (stating > $50K US coverage) is acceptable, instead of the 'stock/generic unlimited health insurance coverage' form that some Health Insurance companies provide.

yes, my insurance company every January sends me Via email "the overseas benefits 2024" actually the current year but it is 17 pages long and says for hospitalization "unlimited" and I sent the booklet to BOI with all pertinent data highlighted but they wanted that letter from the Insurance complany signed by someone - someone who has the same insurance company advised me about the letter so I sent an email to the insurer and the next day had the letter in my in box.  BOI was happy and a week later had my LTR stamps!  hard to beat.  Now I don't think that there will be any changes to the benefits until the ten years are up but TIT so anything is possible.  Even if they thought about it, there are 5000+ already with that visa and might not want to change anything immediately though some on this forum "are sure" that they will drop the free remittance into Thailand with no taxes bit.  I wouldn't be affected by that either as long as they don't drop the DTA treaty.  

[Presnock]

On 7/9/2022 at 4:26 PM, Tropposurfer said:

I posted on these subject  before. My apologies if I repeat myself. I agree with you JTOPO.

 

The LTV has some preferences and benefits for some. But for me the benefits of my Elite far out-way this newer long term O or OA retirement visa.

I estimate at my usual yearly rate of play projected forward and allowing for a downturn in games played as I approach my walking frame years lol ???? my free golf alone will pay entirely for my 20 year Elite visa over its life, leaving aside the other in country discounts and services I receive. 

There are lots of other benefits in an Elite that this LTR thingy does not offer. Yes its much cheaper but offers far far less in benefits than an Elite.

I encourage others to read the fine print and you'll see what these disparities are. Of course if you cannot rationalise paying for either then the point of one versus other is a mute one, and the standard O or OA is for you.

 

 

 

well I have read the requirements for both, benefits as well and COSTS!  how about the lack of 90-day reports, not taxes on remitted foreign income, only 50K.  Most of what I see in the elite is a waste of my time anyway...Just saying as I would not even consider the elite if the cost was as cheap as the LTR but since it is 10-30 times more expensive, sure don't know why folks shell out that for what they get...yeah, not having to go yearly to immigrationis okay but ...my opinion anyway.

[Presnock]

On 7/9/2022 at 6:15 PM, Thingamabob said:

As a retiree I am happy to maintain 800k in the bank, and pay 1900 baht once a year for a retirement extension. Why would I want to pay more ?

well, the LTR is not that much more expensive over the ten years and could even be cheaper in some cases.  Plus no 90-day reports, once a year just notify the BOI of your address or if you travel outside

Thailand, your report address once starts again at 365 days before reporting again, and an agent, friend or family member can just provide the BOI with your address, easy pass at airport immigration, and no taxes on remitted funds into Thailand.  I realize some folks think that this last bit might come to change but then again it might not.  Just saying, I did my at Retirement O for almost 20 years and never had to  put up 800K of my money with restrictions on my use of those funds and now I don't worry about much of anything especially immigration financial requirements.