UK Banks closing accounts for EU Expats

[hotandsticky]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

That is not true.

Following the decision to return Hong Kong to China the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation relocated the headquarters to London as HSBC Holdings Ltd on the London Stock Exchange with the original HSBC becoming a subsidiary of HSBC Holdings Ltd. They built a new global HQ which opened at Canary Wharf in 2002.

When they first established in UK they took over the Midland bank to gain a high street presence, up until quite recently my account still had a Midland Swift code.

 

 

That is also not quite true.

 

The decision to relocate to London was unrelated to the 1984 decision to hand back Hong Kong. 

 

As part of the takeover conditions for the acquisition of Midland, HSBC Holdings plc was required to relocate its world headquarters from Hong Kong to London. Most people saw it as a move to a 'safe haven' with the 1997 handover coming up, but it was actually a regulatory requirement.

[foreverlomsak]

23 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Wise hasn’t been around for that long and it may not suit all.

Both my private pension providers have refused to pay my pensions into my Wise account despite having a UK Sort Code and Account Number. Basis of rejection was that Wise is a Financial Institution and not a bank, pensions must be paid into bank accounts.

[hotandsticky]

7 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

Both my private pension providers have refused to pay my pensions into my Wise account despite having a UK Sort Code and Account Number. Basis of rejection was that Wise is a Financial Institution and not a bank, pensions must be paid into bank accounts.

 

 

As you no doubt said, 23-14-70 is the sorting code number of a bank.......... I fail to see their issue, your money IS going into a UK bank account.

 

Complain and threaten to go the Pensions Ombudsman for unjustly denying you access to pension entitlements. Quote the fact if Wise is good enough for DWP it should be good enough for any jumped up pension trustee.

Edited July 17, 2022 by hotandsticky

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

That is not true.

Following the decision to return Hong Kong to China the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation relocated the headquarters to London as HSBC Holdings Ltd on the London Stock Exchange with the original HSBC becoming a subsidiary of HSBC Holdings Ltd. They built a new global HQ which opened at Canary Wharf in 2002.

When they first established in UK they took over the Midland bank to gain a high street presence, up until quite recently my account still had a Midland Swift code.

Well they use to be in Hong Kong then doesn't matter to me I'm in Asia.

I'm still happy with my one and only UK bank First Direct they suit all my needs. 

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Kwasaki

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, foreverlomsak said:

Both my private pension providers have refused to pay my pensions into my Wise account despite having a UK Sort Code and Account Number. Basis of rejection was that Wise is a Financial Institution and not a bank, pensions must be paid into bank accounts.

This is all a scam and becoming a bigger plot by banks in collaboration with governments to put the squeeze on expats, for reasons unbeknown to me.

 

Earlier this year, I had one of two banks I was with close my account because I had an overseas address as well as a PO Box back home (Oz), the other account with the other bank has a mates address in Oz, thankfully because otherwise I wouldn't be able to access funds when transferring them to my Thai account.

 

When back in Oz next time I will open another account using my mates address as you always have to have a back up plan.

 

Strangest thing is, the government loses here because the banks are supposed to collect the 10% withholding tax on interest earned from our accounts as expats, oh, well, not my problem, they can have nothing.

 

Fortunately Wise who I also have an account with is registered as a bank in Oz, so that makes it another back up.

[xylophone]

8 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

This is all a scam and becoming a bigger plot by banks in collaboration with governments to put the squeeze on expats, for reasons unbeknown to me.

I believe it's got a lot to do with the "anti-money-laundering laws" which are now being implemented in financial institutions around the world, and the reason I say this is because a short while ago I received a message from my NZ bank telling me that if I lived overseas I could not conduct share transactions on their share trading platform, which I had been doing for 15 years or more.

 

I had to be residing in NZ to be able to do that, and just a few days ago I got an email from the New Zealand Lottery Commission (Lotto) stating that they were updating their terms and conditions and needed much more information with regards to my NZ bank account, and also my place of domicile.

 

If I wasn't domiciled in NZ, then I could not play the NZ lottery (online) and as I do have some credit in it, I will use that up and cancel it – – never really won anything anyway!
 

[Bangkok Barry]

On 7/15/2022 at 11:18 PM, Kwasaki said:

My bank will not take UK non-residents but made exception for me because I was an existing customer and they except my one and only address in Thailand.

Same for me. When the restrictions were introduced several years ago my decades old account with HSBC was 'grandfathered'. A couple of years ago I had to complete some documents which involved having it certified by a lawyer here in Thailand. As the original documents failed to reach me as the local postman destroyed most of the mail for a period of 18 months instead of delivering it I had to contact the bank when I got a reminder, and they were very friendly and had no problem with my having a Thai address.

However, my UK Visa card will expire soon and I have to use my sister's address in the UK to receive the new one as they red flag Thailand for mail theft. Now there's a surprise. Having a Thai address on their record for transaction purposes isn't a problem though. 

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Same for me. When the restrictions were introduced several years ago my decades old account with HSBC was 'grandfathered'. A couple of years ago I had to complete some documents which involved having it certified by a lawyer here in Thailand. As the original documents failed to reach me as the local postman destroyed most of the mail for a period of 18 months instead of delivering it I had to contact the bank when I got a reminder, and they were very friendly and had no problem with my having a Thai address.

However, my UK Visa card will expire soon and I have to use my sister's address in the UK to receive the new one as they red flag Thailand for mail theft. Now there's a surprise. Having a Thai address on their record for transaction purposes isn't a problem though. 

Well hope things go well you my private pensions payments is the reason I need a UK bank account. 

 

I have just received my renewed visa card and not so long ago my renewed debit card. 

My bank is a group member of HSBC. 

[4MyEgo]

56 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I believe it's got a lot to do with the "anti-money-laundering laws" which are now being implemented in financial institutions around the world, and the reason I say this is because a short while ago I received a message from my NZ bank telling me that if I lived overseas I could not conduct share transactions on their share trading platform, which I had been doing for 15 years or more.

 

I had to be residing in NZ to be able to do that, and just a few days ago I got an email from the New Zealand Lottery Commission (Lotto) stating that they were updating their terms and conditions and needed much more information with regards to my NZ bank account, and also my place of domicile.

 

If I wasn't domiciled in NZ, then I could not play the NZ lottery (online) and as I do have some credit in it, I will use that up and cancel it – – never really won anything anyway!
 

OMG, it's spreading.

 

To me this money laundering act is all BS, I mean if you have been with the banks for decades, had mortgages with them they can see through the lines, it's more involved than that, can't put my finger on it though.

[Bangkok Barry]

44 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well hope things go well you my private pensions payments is the reason I need a UK bank account. 

 

I have just received my renewed visa card and not so long ago my renewed debit card. 

My bank is a group member of HSBC. 

Was your Visa card delivered to the UK or Thailand? (I didn't mention as it is probably irrelevant that my Visa card is with Barclays, as I once banked with them. I did have a HSBC one but I let that go for a reason I can't remember).

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

Both my private pension providers have refused to pay my pensions into my Wise account despite having a UK Sort Code and Account Number. Basis of rejection was that Wise is a Financial Institution and not a bank, pensions must be paid into bank accounts.

Might they also insist, for good measure, that the payments must be paid into a UK bank account - and under no circumstances directly into a Thai account, as is permitted by DWP in the case of State Pension payments?

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by OJAS

[Kwasaki]

23 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Was your Visa card delivered to the UK or Thailand? (I didn't mention as it is probably irrelevant that my Visa card is with Barclays, as I once banked with them. I did have a HSBC one but I let that go for a reason I can't remember).

I only have a Thailand address my First Direct bank sends me visa statements and sends cards when end date is near by ordinary post.

 

They send me SMS messages on my Thai mobile number to say if I am overdrawn.

 

I don't phone them anymore I just use the online messaging when I'm logged in if want ask something.

[Kwasaki]

10 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Might they also insist, for good measure, that the payments must be paid into a UK bank account - and under no circumstances directly into a Thai account, as is permitted by DWP in the case of State Pension payments?

 

My private pensions provider will not paid into my Thai bank account when I requested it,  they will only pay into a UK address bank. 

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:31 PM, hotandsticky said:

I believe this to relate to EU expats only, but I wonder if it might be the trigger to look at ALL expat accounts.

The regulation already applies to all expats with UK bank accounts who are not UK residents.

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:43 PM, hotandsticky said:

On 7/15/2022 at 7:36 PM, Kwasaki said:

Been like that for years.

Not the account closures  -  and the ban on non-residents is only in 'recent' years.

Yes, it has, for years UK banks have been closing accounts held by non-UK residents (excluding EU residents).

Edited July 17, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/16/2022 at 12:37 AM, hotandsticky said:

Whilst that is not yet happening in the UK (for expats in Thailand) my point is that it MIGHT. 

That is happening now and has been happening with most UK banks for non-residents' accounts for years, it's just that because your bank has not yet applied the rule to you (yet) as an existing customer, you have not been aware of it.  Your UK banks can close your accounts anytime they choose.

 

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:35 AM, hotandsticky said:

As a former employee of HSBC,

Well that could explain why you've not been bothered, so far, by your bank's regulations.  

 

As an ex-Lloyds, Nat West and Citibank employee that consideration that you have wasn't extended to me.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

The decision to relocate to London was unrelated to the 1984 decision to hand back Hong Kong. 

The decision to hand Hong Kong back was taken in 1971, you either accept that or you don't, I am not going to say how I know.

HSBC Holdings was dormant company in London for many years prior to 1991, it was the issue over Hong Kong that brought it to life. The Midland acquisition was necessary to sustain life.

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Well that could explain why you've not been bothered, so far, by your bank's regulations.  

I am sure that they don't know U exist/existed ????

[Liverpool Lou]

3 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

As you no doubt said, 23-14-70 is the sorting code number of a bank..........

Regardless of its sort code, WIse is not a bank.

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

My private pensions provider will not paid into my Thai bank account when I requested it,  they will only pay into a UK address bank. 

And, if as in the case of @foreverlomsak they were not prepared to pay into a Wise account either, you would be caught between the devil and the deep blue sea as regards receiving your private pension if First Direct were to pull the plug on your UK account with them. Whilst this may well be unlikely in your case, as you have already said, others whose private pension providers were not prepared to make payments into a Thai bank or Wise account would not be in the same fortunate position as you if the UK banks upon which they were reliant for receiving their private pensions were to decide on the spur of the moment to close their accounts. In their case the only option open to them, as I see things, would be an enforced return to life in the UK.

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by OJAS

[Kwasaki]

47 minutes ago, OJAS said:

And, if as in the case of @foreverlomsak they were not prepared to pay into a Wise account either, you would be caught between the devil and the deep blue sea as regards receiving your private pension if First Direct were to pull the plug on your UK account with them. Whilst this may well be unlikely in your case, as you have already said, others whose private pension providers were not prepared to make payments into a Thai bank or Wise account would not be in the same fortunate position as you if the UK banks upon which they were reliant for receiving their private pensions were to decide on the spur of the moment to close their accounts. In their case the only option open to them, as I see things, would be an enforced return to life in the UK.

 

If you have family in UK which have I don't see a problem if First Direct has to change it policy because of the powers that be. 

 

I can't see DWP (IPC) stopping payments abroad.

[hotandsticky]

8 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If you have family in UK which have I don't see a problem if First Direct has to change it policy because of the powers that be. 

 

I can't see DWP (IPC) stopping payments abroad.

Agree with all that. There is no issue if you have a UK address - the risk factor applies to those with only overseas addresses.

 

I think you will know that there are some doom-mongers who think that the UK government could insist on you being domiciled in the UK to be able to receive the State pension......it has already happened with Bereavement Payments..... Can't see it happening in my life time.

[Kwasaki]

27 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Agree with all that. There is no issue if you have a UK address - the risk factor applies to those with only overseas addresses.

 

I think you will know that there are some doom-mongers who think that the UK government could insist on you being domiciled in the UK to be able to receive the State pension......it has already happened with Bereavement Payments..... Can't see it happening in my life time.

My last uk address was one of my daughters so I could use that again.

As said I can't see my bank bothered about sending me cards, letters and statement in my lifetime to my Thai addess.

As for state pensions I see them either increasing age limits or doing away them altogether.

.

 

[foreverlomsak]

6 hours ago, OJAS said:

Might they also insist, for good measure, that the payments must be paid into a UK bank account - and under no circumstances directly into a Thai account, as is permitted by DWP in the case of State Pension payments?

 

I proposed to both of them in the last 9 months, to make the payments into my Thai bank account (the one they have both used in the past and hence should already be in their records) however their list of requirements to do so made it next to impossible, namely

1) Monthly bank statements showing my address and the bank address in English

2) Copies of utilities bills (in English) showing me as the customer & my address, and cannot be for mobile phones, Wi-Fi connections or subscription TV channels, (that leaves only one PEA and it's in the wife's name being the house owner in the blue book)

3) Embassy certified proof of address

There were more, but I gave up at this point, and don't remember.

As I am stuck with maintaining a UK account with no UK address, don't know where I'll be in the future, as yet I haven't claimed DWP pension.

 

[The Fugitive]

19 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

I proposed to both of them in the last 9 months, to make the payments into my Thai bank account (the one they have both used in the past and hence should already be in their records) however their list of requirements to do so made it next to impossible, namely

1) Monthly bank statements showing my address and the bank address in English

2) Copies of utilities bills (in English) showing me as the customer & my address, and cannot be for mobile phones, Wi-Fi connections or subscription TV channels, (that leaves only one PEA and it's in the wife's name being the house owner in the blue book)

3) Embassy certified proof of address

There were more, but I gave up at this point, and don't remember.

As I am stuck with maintaining a UK account with no UK address, don't know where I'll be in the future, as yet I haven't claimed DWP pension.

 

Very tough. I sympathise greatly. Thanks for the warning.

[OJAS]

On 7/17/2022 at 6:40 PM, Kwasaki said:

 

I can't see DWP (IPC) stopping payments abroad.

Neither can I - but I was referring to private pensions.

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Neither can I - but I was referring to private pensions.

 

My 2 private pensions already do so.

I'm glad Wise came about it's made things easier and cheaper.