American men are sicker and more likely to die early from preventable causes than peers abroad, study finds

[Scott]

American men are sicker and more likely to die early from preventable causes than peers abroad, study finds

 

The report published by the Commonwealth Fund also found that men in the U.S. with lower incomes had higher rates of multiple chronic conditions.

 

Houston EMS supervisor Daniel Soto, right, and fellow paramedics check the vital signs of a man suffering from breathing difficulties in Houston, Texas, on Sept. 14, 2021.John Moore / Getty Images file

By Chantal Da Silva

Men in the United States are sicker and more likely to die early from preventable causes compared with their peers in other similarly high-income countries, a new study has found.

Released on Thursday by the Commonwealth Fund, a nonprofit organization focused on public health issues, the report compared "health care accessibility, affordability and health status" for adult men across 11 high-income countries, including the U.S., Canada, the U.K., France, Sweden, Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Norway, New Zealand and Australia.

The study used data from the organization's International Health Policy Survey and from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/american-men-are-sicker-likely-die-early-preventable-causes-peers-abro-rcna38402

[Jingthing]

Yeah, we knew that.

The USA "health care" system is atrocious.

Rating poorly by WHO and deservedly so.

Of course if you're very rich you fly in there for the best specialists anywhere, but what percentage of people are like that?

Most expensive in the world, very poor access for huge percentage of the population, greedy corporate big pharma and big hospital etc., mediocre health outcomes.

Many doctors go into the field more motivated like hedge fund managers than healers, or they quickly become that way to pay back loans.

Of course, of course, there is also poor behavior of the people around diet, nutrition, and exercise, etc.

A perfect storm of horribleness. 

 

[frantick]

But... 

 

"...American men found to have the lowest rate of prostate cancer-related deaths among the 11 countries included."

 

This old man's future, primary related concern. Sorry, all you "Commonwealthers", I'll stick to the p4p model. At this point in my life, I don't want them taking 50% of my Social Security for Healthcare. 

Edited July 16, 2022 by frantick
Spelling

[heybruce]

23 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah, we knew that.

The USA "health care" system is atrocious.

Rating poorly by WHO and deservedly so.

Of course if you're very rich you fly in there for the best specialists anywhere, but what percentage of people are like that?

Most expensive in the world, very poor access for huge percentage of the population, greedy corporate big pharma and big hospital etc., mediocre health outcomes.

Many doctors go into the field more motivated like hedge fund managers than healers, or they quickly become that way to pay back loans.

Of course, of course, there is also poor behavior of the people around diet, nutrition, and exercise, etc.

A perfect storm of horribleness. 

 

Let's not forget that agricultural subsidies primarily go to grain production, which is used to feed animals and produce corn syrup sweeteners.  The result is an abundance of cheap and readily available foods high in animal fat, starch and sugar, while fresh vegetables and fruits are more expensive and sold in far fewer places.

[Emster23]

"Why do American men die before their American wives? Because they want to!" to retool and old joke

[Screaming]

The United States has some of the best health care in the World and also the best doctors in the World. The reason for that is because it is not socialized like Europe. Why do so many Europeans come to the United States for surgery, because they must wait over a year in their socialized country to get the procedure. The reason so many American men are in poor heath is because they are obese, not because of the health care. 

[Excel]

3 minutes ago, Screaming said:

The reason so many American men are in poor heath is because they are obese, not because of the health care. 

So its not poor health care then in your eyes ? so the problem then is just a very poor educational system that does not educate children sufficiently on the danger of obesity when adult. Well that's cleared that up.

[bbko]

On 7/17/2022 at 3:06 AM, heybruce said:

Let's not forget that agricultural subsidies primarily go to grain production, which is used to feed animals and produce corn syrup sweeteners.  The result is an abundance of cheap and readily available foods high in animal fat, starch and sugar, while fresh vegetables and fruits are more expensive and sold in far fewer places.

I'm from the US and have been living in Thailand for a number of years, at one point I hadn't make it "back home" for 5 years.  When I did return and went to the neighborhood supermarket it seemed the majority of what they sold was pre-made/heat & eat meals, processed foods, it was disgusting.  No wonder so many of my fellow Mericans are obese.  

[Excel]

1 minute ago, bbko said:

I'm from the US and have been living in Thailand for a number of years, at one point I hadn't make it "back home" for 5 years.  When I did return and went to the neighborhood supermarket it seemed the majority of what they sold was pre-made/heat & eat meals, processed foods, it was disgusting.  No wonder so many of my fellow Mericans are obese.  

But worryingly in the several decades I have lived here, Thai kids seem to be becoming fatter, obese in many cases and I attribute that, rightly or wrongly, to the explosion in fast foods such as KFC/McDonalds/Pizza express etc which basically, like your referred to, are all junk foods

[arithai12]

22 minutes ago, Screaming said:

The United States has some of the best health care in the World and also the best doctors in the World. The reason for that is because it is not socialized like Europe. Why do so many Europeans come to the United States for surgery, because they must wait over a year in their socialized country to get the procedure. The reason so many American men are in poor heath is because they are obese, not because of the health care. 

Agree about obesity - it's punches you in the eye the moment you set foot in the USA.

About "many Europeans... for surgery" I don't know, do you have numbers to prove it? Because I have the impression that on average other countries are equally good or, dollar for dollar, better; e.g. Thailand.

One thing about getting the best in the US, is that you pay through your nose. Now, if you have that kind of money, I assure you that you don't need to wait over a year in the public health system in Europe.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Screaming said:

The United States has some of the best health care in the World and also the best doctors in the World. The reason for that is because it is not socialized like Europe.

I have no experience of the US health care system, but to suggest that European systems lag behind because they are "socialized" is over-simplistic. 

 

I have (relatively) recent  experience of the Belgian and UK systems. Both systems might be described as "socialized". The Belgian health care system is excellent, the UK's is not.

 

1 hour ago, Screaming said:

Why do so many Europeans come to the United States for surgery, because they must wait over a year in their socialized country to get the procedure.

Again, over-simplistic. The waiting lists in Europe vary according to the individual country, and within the individual nations, according to the procedure.

 

1 hour ago, Screaming said:

 

 

[baboon]

4 hours ago, Screaming said:

The United States has some of the best health care in the World and also the best doctors in the World. The reason for that is because it is not socialized like Europe. Why do so many Europeans come to the United States for surgery, because they must wait over a year in their socialized country to get the procedure. The reason so many American men are in poor heath is because they are obese, not because of the health care. 

Don't lots of Americans go to Canada for treatment, Canada being socialised and more affordable?

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, baboon said:

Don't lots of Americans go to Canada for treatment, Canada being socialised and more affordable?

That's a weird question. You need to be Canadian to be part of their health care system so no Americans don't go there for health tourism. However they most certainly DO go the Mexico for health care tourism IN DROVES!

 

Medical Tourism in Mexico by Angeles Health International | Hospital Angeles

 

Americans go there to save money. Canadians go there to jump the queue on waiting times in Canada. 

 

Of course for Americans that are eligible for migration to Canada, the health care system is a big attraction.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jingthing

[baboon]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's a weird question. You need to be Canadian to be part of their health care system so no Americans don't go there for health tourism. However they most certainly DO go the Mexico for health care tourism IN DROVES!

 

Medical Tourism in Mexico by Angeles Health International | Hospital Angeles

 

Americans go there to save money. Canadians go there to jump the queue on waiting times in Canada. 

 

Of course for Americans that are eligible for migration to Canada, the health care system is a big attraction.

Dunno why I had it in my head that Americans sought treatment in Canada, but thanks for setting me straight.

So an American on a month's fishing trip in Canada better have insurance or he is screwed if disaster strikes?

[Jingthing]

I will add though that Canada is welcoming U.S. women from the republican FORCED BIRTH states to access their already overburdened abortion clinics. One reason they are doing this ironically is history. There was a time in Canadian history where many Canadian women needed to go to the U.S. for abortions, long ago, but a touching demonstration of international reciprocity. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, baboon said:

Dunno why I had it in my head that Americans sought treatment in Canada, but thanks for setting me straight.

So an American on a month's fishing trip in Canada better have insurance or he is screwed if disaster strikes?

That's a detail I don't know but as for any travel, travel insurance is recommended. I assume though that they would at least offer emergency care but I have no idea of the cost if uninsured. Yes Canada does have waiting times for many procedures, but obviously if you're bleeding out it's a different story. Canadians don't routinely go bankrupt because of health care costs, as do Americans. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jingthing

[VocalNeal]

42 minutes ago, baboon said:

Canada being socialised and more affordable?

I believe the technical term is "single payer" system. I also don't believe you wait for treatment for acute cases. 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

I believe the technical term is "single payer" system. I also don't believe you wait for treatment for acute cases. 

Obviously it's a triage system. In the U.S. it's more of a money based triage system. 

The vast majority of Canadians would never trade their system for a U.S. system!

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jingthing

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Screaming said:

The United States has some of the best health care in the World and also the best doctors in the World. The reason for that is because it is not socialized like Europe. Why do so many Europeans come to the United States for surgery, because they must wait over a year in their socialized country to get the procedure. The reason so many American men are in poor heath is because they are obese, not because of the health care. 

Just because Italy makes some of the best supercars in the world doesn't mean that every Italian owns a supercar.

 

The US doesn't even make the top ten in global health care systems  https://www.statista.com/statistics/1090192/health-care-system-performance-rankings-of-select-countries/   In the US 28 million people are without any kind of medical insurance https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2021/demo/p60-274.html.  Many other Americans have inadequate insurance.  That is why medical costs are a major driver for bankruptcies in the US.

 

However the US does have the most expensive medical care in the world by a wide margin.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/

Edited July 18, 2022 by heybruce

[pegman]

On 7/16/2022 at 6:35 AM, frantick said:

But... 

 

"...American men found to have the lowest rate of prostate cancer-related deaths among the 11 countries included."

 

This old man's future, primary related concern. Sorry, all you "Commonwealthers", I'll stick to the p4p model. At this point in my life, I don't want them taking 50% of my Social Security for Healthcare. 

Funny, I pay next to no tax on my gov pensions up here in socialized medicine practicing Canuckistan 

[frantick]

10 hours ago, pegman said:

Funny, I pay next to no tax on my gov pensions up here in socialized medicine practicing Canuckistan 

Already taxed, ie avg Canadian government pension $727, American $1666.

 

As I said, about 50%.

[Phoenix Rising]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Obviously it's a triage system. In the U.S. it's more of a money based triage system. 

The vast majority of Canadians would never trade their system for a U.S. system!

I can assure you that the same goes for the vast majority of Western Europeans.

[Phoenix Rising]

21 hours ago, Screaming said:

The United States has some of the best health care in the World and also the best doctors in the World. The reason for that is because it is not socialized like Europe. Why do so many Europeans come to the United States for surgery, because they must wait over a year in their socialized country to get the procedure. The reason so many American men are in poor heath is because they are obese, not because of the health care. 

This is factually wrong but I can't be bothered to look up the stats. In fact, it's your job to verify your claims and since you offer no proof, only statements of wishful thinking, I'm calling BS on this post.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, frantick said:

Already taxed, ie avg Canadian government pension $727, American $1666.

 

As I said, about 50%.

Sources?

[pegman]

1 hour ago, frantick said:

Already taxed, ie avg Canadian government pension $727, American $1666.

 

As I said, about 50%.

We have 2 pensions not 1. CPP & OAS and our contributions are much, much less. The CPP is similar to American social security but our ceiling on earning we pay on is half that of the American system. So we get "taxed" at half what Americans  pay. Our socialized medicine is paid for by general gov revenues. Noting to do with our gov pension plans. Another difference in our two countries is that Canada has an actual pension fund where our contributions go with an investment board.

[Phoenix Rising]

On 7/16/2022 at 6:35 PM, frantick said:

But... 

 

"...American men found to have the lowest rate of prostate cancer-related deaths among the 11 countries included."

Yes, and the reason for that is actually in the headline of the OP article:

"American men are sicker and more likely to die early...."

 

If you cannot see the connection let me spell it out for you; the earlier you die the less likely it will be you die of prostate cancer. This might come as a surprise but men who die in their 20's and 30's are almost never dying of prostate cancer.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Phoenix Rising

[pegman]

1 hour ago, frantick said:

Already taxed, ie avg Canadian government pension $727, American $1666.

 

As I said, about 50%.

I'm eligible for max benefit from both Canada pension plans so a combined total of $1,820. Peanuts compared to my private company pension but they keeps my fridge full of Leo.  

[heybruce]

52 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Yes, and the reason for that is actually in the headline of the OP article:

"American men are sicker and more likely to die early...."

 

If you cannot see the connection let me spell it out for you; the earlier you die the less likely it will be you die of prostate cancer. This might come as a surprise but men who die in their 20's and 30's are almost never dying of prostate cancer.

That's true for most (all?) kinds of cancer; the best way to avoid cancer is to die young.  I'd rather live recklessly and tempt cancer with my old age.

 

Sometimes people hustling a life-style product will make claims about societies that use the product or live the life-style and have low cancer rates.  Those are usually societies with a low life expectancy. 

 

But it is true that you can lower your risk of prostrate cancer by hurrying into the grave.

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Sources?

I get $1900+ USD/mo and I collected at 62.

Edited July 19, 2022 by EVENKEEL

[scubascuba3]

Most likely due to a poor diet and too quick for meds and ops