New O-A Extension Insurace

[mrbeerguy]

I must go to Jomtien IMM. Before Sept.30. Is the New Health Insurance of 3.5 Million Baht now in Effect?

[ubonjoe]

After September 1st you must have 3.5 million of medica insurance.

[DrJack54]

44 minutes ago, mrbeerguy said:

Insurance of 3.5 Million Baht now in Effect?

Any idea of what the insurance 3.5 mil will cost.

Realize depends on age etc.

Just curious..

Plenty of folk ditching their non O-A and starting afresh with non O 

[KhunBENQ]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Plenty of folk ditching their non O-A and starting afresh with non O 

Ditch! As I did.

 

For me at age 65 cheapest I have seen was around 50000 Baht.

Just seen some 98000 Baht.

[Andrew Dwyer]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Any idea of what the insurance 3.5 mil will cost.

Realize depends on age etc.

Just curious..

Plenty of folk ditching their non O-A and starting afresh with non O 

Here’s the table from LMG for OA health insurance.

[TigerandDog]

49 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Ditch! As I did.

 

For me at age 65 cheapest I have seen was around 50000 Baht.

Just seen some 98000 Baht.

I'm 72 and mine cost 102k THB after no claim discount and me paying the first 40k was applied.

Edited July 22, 2022 by TigerandDog

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

After September 1st you must have 3.5 million of medica insurance.

Still to be formally confirmed by the Immigration Bureau through a new Police Order, though, I think. 

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Still to be formally confirmed by the Immigration Bureau through a new Police Order, though, I think. 

September 1st is the date set when the new insurance requirement came out last year.

Immigration only needs to do a order stating it is required.

[Speedhump]

Get hit with cancer. 70k will seem like a bargain then. 

[Jen65]

5 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Here’s the table from LMG for OA health insurance.

I think you will find that that does not include a) outpatient and b) Covid insurance .I will be surprised if it does !

[Jen65]

I would be wary of ditching medical insurance because if, at some future point, the government realises the inconsistency between the O-A and O retirement visas/extensions and simplifies it to ONE visa with medical insurance , then you might not be able to get back on the insurance ladder easily !!!  

[Andrew Dwyer]

8 minutes ago, Jen65 said:

I would be wary of ditching medical insurance because if, at some future point, the government realises the inconsistency between the O-A and O retirement visas/extensions and simplifies it to ONE visa with medical insurance , then you might not be able to get back on the insurance ladder easily !!!  

I think it’s better to be able to choose any insurance policy you want without being tied to one of the Thai insurances on the list for OA.

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

September 1st is the date set when the new insurance requirement came out last year.

Immigration only needs to do a order stating it is required.

Well let's hope that the Immigration Bureau get round to issuing the necessary Police Order by 23:59:59 on 31 August!

 

In any event, isn't the increase, in fact, to 3 million THB rather than the 3.5 million figure quoted by the OP? 3 million was certainly the figure quoted in official guidelines issued by the MOPH some time ago (attached).

 

17 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I think it’s better to be able to choose any insurance policy you want without being tied to one of the Thai insurances on the list for OA.

I was under the impression that you wouldn't be tied to Thai insurance policies after 1 September!

 

Guideline_on_Non-Immigrant_O-A_Visa.pdf

[Andrew Dwyer]

17 hours ago, Jen65 said:

I think you will find that that does not include a) outpatient and b) Covid insurance .I will be surprised if it does !

1) The insurance coverage of the first visa application and extension – originally indicated that the amount of coverage in the case of out-patients shall not less than 40,000 THB and in-patients shall not less than 400,000 THB – is changed into having health insurance or social welfare covering all medical expenses including the ones for COVID-19 with the coverage of not less than 100,000 USD (3 million THB).

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, OJAS said:

In any event, isn't the increase, in fact, to 3 million THB rather than the 3.5 million figure quoted by the OP? 3 million was certainly the figure quoted in official guidelines issued by the MOPH some time ago (attached).

The actual requirement is $100,000 US of insurance. They may use use the current exchange rate when you see 3 million or 3.5 million baht.

[OJAS]

20 hours ago, Jen65 said:

you might not be able to get back on the insurance ladder easily !!! 

You will not be able to get back on the insurance ladder at all if you are aged 75+ !!!

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The actual requirement is $100,000 US of insurance. They may use use the current exchange rate when you see 3 million or 3.5 million baht.

In that case it is IMHO totally unacceptable that, thanks to apparent Immigration Bureau dithering and indecision, there remains uncertainty on this basic point with less than 6 weeks to go until the change is made. Taking Pacific Cross policies as examples, you could get away with their Premier Plus policy if the figure is 3 million at an annual premium of 70,244 for the 61-65 age bracket. However, if the figure is 3.5 million you would need to upgrade to their Maxima policy which provides 5 million cover at an annual premium of 81,567 for the 61-65 age bracket.

 

Maxima-Plan_Edit-1.pdf Premier-Plan-Edit-1.pdf

Edited July 23, 2022 by OJAS

[OJAS]

On 7/22/2022 at 11:04 AM, mrbeerguy said:

I must go to Jomtien IMM. Before Sept.30. Is the New Health Insurance of 3.5 Million Baht now in Effect?

In view of all the current uncertainty surrounding the minimum cover requirement as expressed in THB, I suspect that the most practical course of action in your case would be to ditch your original non-OA visa through exiting Thailand without a re-entry permit, then re-entering with a 30-day visa-exempt stamp which you can then convert to a 90-day non-O visa at Jomtien Immigration before resuming annual retirement extensions without any insurance requirement - as referred to briefly by @DrJack54 and @KhunBENQ above. By the time the Immigration Bureau finally get around to confirming the THB figure in a new Police Order, it might well be going it somewhat for you to get a suitable policy in place before your current permission to stay expires.

 

[Olmate]

 Seems agent fee add on for OA extension insurance after Sept.has NOT increased. 

[JimGant]

On 7/23/2022 at 2:19 PM, ubonjoe said:

The actual requirement is $100,000 US of insurance. They may use use the current exchange rate when you see 3 million or 3.5 million baht.

LMG came out months ago with their new OA extension policy, using 3.5M baht face value (vice 3M baht) to hedge against an appreciating dollar. Who knew they should have advertised a 3.7M baht policy, based on today's FX rates.

 

Maybe this is why I've had back and forth email exchanges with LMG Chiang Mai office about my renewal, which will be due Sept 13, 2022. When I first asked for a renewal form, early July, they said they'd send it "60 days before current policy expired." That day came and went, and my email to them inquiring 'what's going on,' I got no answer. A much stronger email a week later was answered with something like, 'we're waiting for guidance from main office Bangkok.' Yeah, I bet they are. Cluster fxxx has been redefined. This compared to the highly efficient one day turn around service I got from LMG Chiang Mai last year. So, I'm certainly not blaming them for what's going on.

[redwood1]

Do people realize going from needing 400,000 baht in insurance ( around 12,000 dollars) to needing 100,000 dollars in insurance is a jump of almost 10Xs...

 

Yes folks I said Ten as in a increase of 10 times as much in one year......

 

Does this concern any one ?....... I have some alarm bells ringing....

Edited July 26, 2022 by redwood1

[OJAS]

40 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Do people realize going from needing 400,000 baht in insurance ( around 12,000 dollars) to needing 100,000 dollars in insurance is a jump of almost 10Xs...

 

Yes folks I said Ten as in a increase of 10 times as much in one year......

 

Does this concern any one ?....... I have some alarm bells ringing....

What sounds equally alarming from my point of view is what I consider to be the ridiculous decision of the powers-that-be in the MOFA, MOPH and Immigration Bureau to price the increased minimum requirement in USD rather than THB. In the event of the USD continuing its relentless upward surge in value against the THB, any compliant policy priced in THB which might satisfy the 100,000 USD requirement now might not necessarily do so a year later when the policy holder needs to apply for their next retirement extension. Meaning that if they are by then aged 75+ they will find themselves in deep, deep, deep, deep doo-dah in endeavouring to obtain a replacement policy on account of their age.

 

As I see things, the only beneficiaries of a minimum insurance requirement expressed in USD will be American retirees with suitable home country policies. For the rest of us it will be a right PITA.

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by OJAS

[JimGant]

26 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

Do people realize going from needing 400,000 baht in insurance ( around 12,000 dollars) to needing 100,000 dollars in insurance is a jump of almost 10Xs...

When the TGIA insurance mafia realized that the requirement to have Thai medical insurance would probably not extend to retirees here on Non Imm O visas -- they had to increase premiums tenfold for those of us here on Non Im O-A visa extensions. These guys must be laughing all the way to  the Mercedes dealers.

[KhunBENQ]

On 7/24/2022 at 10:03 AM, OJAS said:

itch your original non-OA visa through exiting Thailand without a re-entry permit, then re-entering with a 30-day visa-exempt stamp which you can then convert to a 90-day non-O visa

I am in the "under consideration" period waiting for my Non O to pickup on August 11 (not 12 as they stamped, a holiday!).

It's a bit of an effort, border run and three visits at immigration until you have the new one year extension.

But after that you are free to decide what kind of insurance you need (if any).

Thai based insurances? No thanks. From all I read: first major claim paid and then get kicked out.

 

[redwood1]

11 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

 

But after that you are free to decide what kind of insurance you need (if any).

Thai based insurances? No thanks. From all I read: first major claim paid and then get kicked out.

 

I think most people BIG BIG BIG  concern is if the O visa ever required a whopping 100,000 dollars in insurance.....This would be a huge financial burden for expats especially the older ones....The 400,000 baht policy would have been a inconvenience but nothing too crazy.....  

[marcus111]

Agree with ditching the OA visa...

Normal Non O no insurance required.

If you really want insurance living here beware....!!!

I had full insurance cover from AXA and in September of 2019 admitted to Bangkok hospital and diagnosed with cancer in multiple organs.

Bangkok hospital invoiced AXA for 420,000 Baht for a 2 week stay, multiple MRI scans and tests, drips, medications etc.

AXA paid and further appointment's were made to follow up what treatments were needed.

I thought brilliant, I have peace of mind that I am covered.....Stupid me...!!!

Received my renewal from AXA some 6 weeks later as expected and paid said renewal.

2 weeks later I received an email and a hard copy letter stating your policy has been cancelled.

No reason given, I challenged their decision but they wrote back saying we have the right to cancel your policy at anytime without reason....(And no refund for the 1 year I paid for in advance).

So the long and short is medical insurance is not worth the paper it is written on.

 

 

[Jen65]

On 7/23/2022 at 2:18 PM, Andrew Dwyer said:

1) The insurance coverage of the first visa application and extension – originally indicated that the amount of coverage in the case of out-patients shall not less than 40,000 THB and in-patients shall not less than 400,000 THB – is changed into having health insurance or social welfare covering all medical expenses including the ones for COVID-19 with the coverage of not less than 100,000 USD (3 million THB).

you are correct . unfortunately your original post with extract of insurance quotes did not state/show they were applicable to the new requirements or just an extract from the then current or old requirements .  

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

13 minutes ago, Jen65 said:

you are correct . unfortunately your original post with extract of insurance quotes did not state/show they were applicable to the new requirements or just an extract from the then current or old requirements .  

 

Yes, as I am in the process of changing to an O visa it is not really relevant to me, I just saved the premiums table for information in threads such as this.
I got it from another poster who recently received it from LMG as his OA retirement extension is imminent.

 

But I do think that anyone with any knowledge of the OA mandatory health insurance could see that it relates to the new/proposed premiums increase.

 

Just to clear up any confusion:

 

Current Retirement extension ( OA ) mandatory health insurance premiums 

 

 

 

Proposed retirement extension ( OA ) mandatory health insurance premiums from Sept 1st ( maybe ).

 

[Jen65]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:45 AM, JimGant said:

When the TGIA insurance mafia realized that the requirement to have Thai medical insurance would probably not extend to retirees here on Non Imm O visas -- they had to increase premiums tenfold for those of us here on Non Im O-A visa extensions. These guys must be laughing all the way to  the Mercedes dealers.

When I investigated and compared insurance quotes to renew O-A medical insurance under the new requirements ,I obtained quotes for both Pacific Cross International ( outside Thailand ) as well as the local / domestic Pacific Cross whom I have been with from the start .  The International Plan was considerably more that the domestic one !!  

Medical Insurance for anyone over 70 is never going to be cheap and the same policies in Europe/rest of world  are just as expensive if not more .   One has to bite the bullet and either self insure or take the best policy offered (after checking the small print ) but to have no insurance is foolhardy .

[Jen65]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Yes, as I am in the process of changing to an O visa it is not really relevant to me, I just saved the premiums table for information in threads such as this.
I got it from another poster who recently received it from LMG as his OA retirement extension is imminent.

 

But I do think that anyone with any knowledge of the OA mandatory health insurance could see that it relates to the new/proposed premiums increase.

 

Just to clear up any confusion:

 

Current Retirement extension ( OA ) mandatory health insurance premiums 

 

 

 

Proposed retirement extension ( OA ) mandatory health insurance premiums from Sept 1st ( maybe ).

 

One also has to take into consideration what the deductible / excess is and if those quotes are 200,000 or 300,000 deductible ?. I just had to increase my deductible to the max from Pacific Cross in order to get a reasonable quote .Then there are the exclusions for pre-existing conditions to consider .  If many or important ones excluded then the policy may be worthless in the event of hospitalization for such and in that case self insurance ( large bank deposit ) may be best option .  I just wrote another reply regarding quotes from local and outside Thailand companies .  I will stick to the one I have , for now at least , as I do not want to "step off " the insurance ladder and go the "O" visa route .