Thawing UK Frozen Pensions

[jonbeen]

14 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Seems there is a business opportunity setting up post/addresses/ boxes for Thai expats in the Philippines! Now how many UK state pensioners in Thailand? Wait I can add in those living in Australia Canada South Africa South Asia Africa Caribbean. Oh but maybe the DWP will notice if 500k UK state pensioners have suddenly moved to Manila?

DWP stated years ago they would not proceed against individuals flaunting SP rules(not that they could anyway)  but may take action if mass protest took place

 

No good setting postal address in PH as you still would receive PoL there

[KannikaP]

11 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

You don't have to read them if they have no relevance to you.

But sometimes you do not know if they are relevant to you, until you have read them.

[ivor bigun]

wonder what they do if you claim until you die ,then they find out ,dig you up?

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

But sometimes you do not know if they are relevant to you, until you have read them.

True......but, as in this case, once you find it has no relevance there is no need to make a comment......????

[hotandsticky]

6 minutes ago, jonbeen said:

DWP stated years ago they would not proceed against individuals flaunting SP rules(not that they could anyway)  but may take action if mass protest took place

 

No good setting postal address in PH as you still would receive PoL there

 

 

 

PoL  =   life certificate?

[jonbeen]

1 minute ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

 

PoL  =   life certificate?

Proof of life

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, sanuk711 said:

Why try to cover up where you are living? Just tell them your moving to the Philippines to live

That would be covering up where he was living also!   

 

DWP may suspect something's not quite right when, as a Philippine resident he has his pension paid into Thai bank, not a Philippine bank.

[Al BB]

5 hours ago, Troy Tempest said:

I cannot get my UK pension until I am 66 next year.

 

I have no intention of moving back to the UK permanently in the near future, but I used to go back every year for a couple of months to visit friends and family.

 

My problem will be that I have been registered with HMRC as non-resident for 10 years.....I still have to pay tax on any UK income which at the moment I only get from renting my house out.

 

I think I will just have to put up with frozen pension unless I eventually return to live in the UK and change my tax status or as a previous poster said move to the Philippines and then put up with cr@p food, high rents, poor infrastructure, fat birds, cr@p internet and Typhoons!

 

Better to live in Thailand with frozen pension than live in a Freezing cold miserable climate (most of the time in the UK) and pay a fortune on Energy Bills and everything else for that matter!

 

Just saying!

 

 

.....cr@p food, high rents, poor infrastructure, fat birds, cr@p internet and Typhoons......................and earthquakes 555.

[transam]

3 hours ago, brianthainess said:

''You MAY get a life certificate'', is what their site says.

The same as living in LOS, you 'may' get a LC...????

[jonbeen]

12 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That would be covering up where he was living also!   

 

DWP may suspect something's not quite right when, as a Philippine resident he has his pension paid into Thai bank, not a Philippine bank.

He could use Wise

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, chilly07 said:

Seems there is a business opportunity setting up post/addresses/ boxes for Thai expats in the Philippines!

You think that they would be opening Philippine bank accounts for all those people also?    Or do you think that the DWP will just ignore a change of circumstances advice where the pensioner, now "in the Philippines" who used to live in Thailand where he receives no annual increases, continues to have his (now increasable) pension remitted to a bank in Thailand?

Edited July 27, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[jonbeen]

5 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You think that they would be opening Philippine bank accounts for all those people also?    Or do you think that the DWP will just ignore a change of circumstances advice where the pensioner, now "in the Philippines" who used to live in Thailand where he receives no annual increases, continues to have his pension remitted to a bank in Thailand?

There is BKK Bank PH,advises using app transfers anywhere

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, Troy Tempest said:

I cannot get my UK pension until I am 66 next year.

I've got 3 years to wait.. see what happens during that time.

It might even be 70 by then.

[Liverpool Lou]

24 minutes ago, jonbeen said:

36 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That would be covering up where he was living also!   

 

DWP may suspect something's not quite right when, as a Philippine resident he has his pension paid into Thai bank, not a Philippine bank.

Expand  

He could use Wise

Yeah, in those dodgy, red flag circumstances that wouldn't raise anymore red flags with the DWP, would it?!

Edited July 27, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

14 minutes ago, jonbeen said:

20 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You think that they would be opening Philippine bank accounts for all those people also?    Or do you think that the DWP will just ignore a change of circumstances advice where the pensioner, now "in the Philippines" who used to live in Thailand where he receives no annual increases, continues to have his pension remitted to a bank in Thailand?

Expand  

There is BKK Bank PH,advises using app transfers anywhere

He'd be in Thailand, how would he open a BBL account in Makati?

[hotandsticky]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I would say you friend was mistaken, and if he was really sent a life certificate it was because they suspected him of living outside the UK. Never let anyone know you are living outside the UK, not your bank, doctor, friends, relatives, or any government agency.

 

Don't

1. post using your real name on social media.

2. use UK issued debit/credit cards to purchase items or in ATMs regularly outside the UK.

3. renew your passport/driving licence outside of the UK.

4. phone up any official/agency/bank from outside the UK.

 

I even go so far as to keep a London landline number through Skype ($90/year), so they can call me in the UK, and I can call them from the UK.

 

If you were with your friend in Thailand when he called the DWP how did he call them? ..... you know they can see where calls are coming from (unless you use a Skype UK landline number).

Sound advice.

 

 

I don't know any way that they would have an inkling of him being overseas - and the life cert was sent to Brighton.

 

He called on my Thai phone because I have CAT phonenet; that didn't matter because he decided to 'come clean' to get his payment reinstated. 

 

 

Later:-

 

I have just had a conversation with my friend up in Isaan....

 

 

I posted this thread to stimulate conversation about the option to 'thaw' frozen pensions. Most important was the desire to get a balanced view of the risks involved so that members could make their own INFORMED decision whether to invoke 'natural justice' regarding pension increases.

 

Within that "informed" I cited the life certificate as a potential risk because a friend received one at his UK correspondence address. I am happy to apologise to Brit Man Too because (following my above conversation) we cannot categorically state that it was a life certificate that was sent out because nobody saw it. It was assumed that it was a life certificate because other people in our area of Thailand had also been sent them. 

 

My friend decided that it was time to admit to living in Thailand so, on my advice, he called DWP to ask why his pension had been stopped. He was told that he had not replied to a letter they had sent so they stopped his pension payment. He said that he had been Thailand for 6 months and it was likely that he would now live here; they immediately reinstated his pension payment and froze it accordingly.    "Life certificate" was not specifically mentioned. He was more concerned about not losing the enhanced element of his pension so he did not mention that he had remarried.

 

Also, a quick example of how DWP staff cannot necessarily join up the dots..... once the DWP established that my friend was in Thailand that was their job finished. They failed to pick up the fact his pension had already been increased as a result of him spending one year in the UK in his late 60's. He claimed his state pension from Thailand with a Thai address; after a couple of years he a spent almost a year in the UK and received the uplift + subsequent annual rises as a result of not advising his return to Thailand. His pension is now frozen with the benefit of those increases - it should have reverted to the initial pension at age 65. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by hotandsticky

[jonbeen]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

He'd be in Thailand, how would he open a BBL account in Makati?

Manila   2 of them,plus atms

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, jonbeen said:

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

He'd be in Thailand, how would he open a BBL account in Makati?

Manila   2 of them,plus atms

Ok, there's more than one branch, but so what?   He'd still be in Thailand even if there were two hundred branches and ATMs up the ying yang!

[jonbeen]

31 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Sound advice.

 

 

I don't know any way that they would have an inkling of him being overseas - and the life cert was sent to Brighton.

 

He called on my Thai phone because I have CAT phonenet; that didn't matter because he decided to 'come clean' to get his payment reinstated. 

 

 

Later:-

 

I have just had a conversation with my friend up in Isaan....

 

 

I posted this thread to stimulate conversation about the option to 'thaw' frozen pensions. Most important was the desire to get a balanced view of the risks involved so that members could make their own INFORMED decision whether to invoke 'natural justice' regarding pension increases.

 

Within that "informed" I cited the life certificate as a potential risk because a friend received one at his UK correspondence address. I am happy to apologise to Brit Man Too because (following my above conversation) we cannot categorically state that it was a life certificate that was sent out because nobody saw it. It was assumed that it was a life certificate because other people in our area of Thailand had also been sent them. 

 

My friend decided that it was time to admit to living in Thailand so, on my advice, he called DWP to ask why his pension had been stopped. He was told that he had not replied to a letter they had sent so they stopped his pension payment. He said that he had been Thailand for 6 months and it was likely that he would now live here; they immediately reinstated his pension payment and froze it accordingly.    "Life certificate" was not specifically mentioned. He was more concerned about not losing the enhanced element of his pension so he did not mention that he had remarried.

 

Also, a quick example of how DWP staff cannot necessarily join up the dots..... once the DWP established that my friend was in Thailand that was their job finished. They failed to pick up the fact his pension had already been increased as a result of him spending one year in the UK in his late 60's. He claimed his state pension from Thailand with a Thai address; after a couple of years he a spent almost a year in the UK and received the uplift + subsequent annual rises as a result of not advising his return to Thailand. His pension is now frozen with the benefit of those increases - it should have reverted to the initial pension at age 65. 

Nothing the DWP can do about anything except freeze. To avoid call back I get a Giff Gaff or Three has UK number for Thailand,another UK plus India (see if range reaches Thailand)  about 5 to ten a month  ,keep for a month or so and cancel

[onthedarkside]

A flame post has been removed.

 

[howzat]

I was advised that if you spent a full 6 months in the UK during the tax year which  starts in April when you return to Thailand your pension remains at the new increased rate.  Less than 6 months your pension returns to the rate before the increase. Is that correct?

[sanuk711]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

That would be covering up where he was living also!   

 

DWP may suspect something's not quite right when, as a Philippine resident he has his pension paid into Thai bank, not a Philippine bank.

Well 2 ways I guess--1/ You dont get it paid into a Flip bank account, a lot of guys here still just draw from there UK account, wise etc---or 2/ let it be paid into a flip bank acc, draw it from where ever.

 

Looking ahead--Now the UK isn't in Schengen I think there will come a time when your passport (leaving the country)  is linked to Pension services--just like they do in Oz -Kiwi etc.  At the moment leaving the UK without your passport is available with just one other country.

Last estimate there was over 10,000 Brits in Philippines.-- Just another avenue- if you dont better then spending 6 months in the UK every time you want to update your pension-- then Take Option B....& a big rain coat.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by sanuk711

[jonbeen]

Just now, howzat said:

I was advised that if you spent a full 6 months in the UK during the tax year which  starts in April when you return to Thailand your pension remains at the new increased rate.  Less than 6 months your pension returns to the rate before the increase. Is that correct?

Seems like a return to your" adviser" may not be in order as its" not always right,but wrong again"

[hotandsticky]

4 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Well 2 ways I guess--1/ You dont get it paid into a Flip bank account, a lot of guys here still just draw from there UK account, wise etc---or 2/ let it be paid into a flip bank acc, draw it from where ever.

 

Looking ahead--Now the UK isn't in Schengen I think there will come a time when your passport (leaving the country)  is linked to Pension services--just like they do in Oz -Kiwi etc.  At the moment leaving the UK without your passport is available with just one other country.

Last estimate there was over 10,000 Brits in Philippines.-- Just another avenue- if you dont better then spending 6 months in the UK every time you want to update your pension-- then Take Option B....& a big rain coat.

 

 

 

 

 

The UK was never part of Schengen, was it?

[hotandsticky]

8 minutes ago, howzat said:

I was advised that if you spent a full 6 months in the UK during the tax year which  starts in April when you return to Thailand your pension remains at the new increased rate.  Less than 6 months your pension returns to the rate before the increase. Is that correct?

No.

 

"John Duffy is chair of the International Consortium of British Pensioners which runs the End Frozen Pensions campaign. He says:

Quite astonishingly, a 'frozen' state pensioner will find their UK state pension 'thawed' if they return to the UK, even if only for a short period.

Indeed, the pension is unfrozen during any visit to a list of 'unfrozen' countries, not just the UK.

This means that somebody could receive – for example - £46 in one week living in a 'frozen' country, visit the UK, where their weekly pension will be tripled, only for this to revert to the frozen rate when back in their country of residence"

 

 

[scubascuba3]

10 minutes ago, howzat said:

I was advised that if you spent a full 6 months in the UK during the tax year which  starts in April when you return to Thailand your pension remains at the new increased rate.  Less than 6 months your pension returns to the rate before the increase. Is that correct?

Sounds plausible, worth checking on HMRC website, i know that for travel insurance to be valid you have to spend 6 months in UK

[George Aylesham]

One slight hope on the horizon is that in July of next year the 15-year rule disenfranchising UK citizens from voting will be repealed. Perhaps the prospect of up to 500,000 overseas frozen pensioners voting against them might persuade the government to correct this injustice.

[sanuk711]

1 minute ago, hotandsticky said:

The UK was never part of Schengen, was it?

Schengen = Free travel within the E.E.C

 

I thought it was hatandsticky--I guess all those people that brought a little bit of paradise in Spain etc --Also thought so.

[proton]

7 hours ago, sanuk711 said:

Why go back to the UK for 6 miserable months-?  Why try to cover up where you are living? Just tell them your moving to the Philippines to live--go stay there in the sun for a while---they will never know if you then left there for a long visit to Thailand.

 

Other countries with UK benefits arrangements

The following countries have social security agreements with the UK:

• Barbados
• Bermuda
• Bosnia and Herzegovina
• Canada
• Channel Islands
• Gibraltar
• Israel
• Jamaica
• Kosovo
• Mauritius
• Montenegro
• New Zealand
• North Macedonia
• the Philippines
• Serbia
• Turkey
• USA
•  
• .https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/where-you-can-claim-benefits

 

Most of last week I was talking to Newcastle about a Bereavement benefits package for the widow of a pensioner friend-- its about £3,500 --+ a few months pension payment--- Bottom line sorry cant help if its Thailand--Philippines yes

But they will want an address in the Philippines to send these life certs to. Best never tell them anything.

[sanuk711]

3 minutes ago, proton said:

But they will want an address in the Philippines to send these life certs to. Best never tell them anything.

"Best never tell them anything"

If your never going to visit the UK again---possibly that may be your best option--a lot of people still have parents etc there that pass. Also you have to have a current passport to live in Thailand--(I think) that the UK is behind is some aspects-- these things are linked in other countries, at the moment they dont seem to be in the UK.

 

"But they will want an address in the Philippines to send these life certs to."

Yer getting a Postal  address--that would be real difficult...................