Senate OKs sweeping bill lowering drug prices and promoting clean energy, setting up major Biden win

[Scott]

 

WASHINGTON – Senate Democrats approved sweeping legislation on health care, climate and taxes along a party-line vote Sunday, delivering a major win for President Joe Biden and his agenda before the midterm elections.

The Senate passed the Inflation Reduction Act, which includes record spending on clean energy initiatives, measures to reduce prescription drug prices and a tax overhaul to ensure large corporations pay income taxes. Every Democrat voted in support and every Republican against the measure.

It heads to a vote in the Democratic-controlled House, where it's likely to pass as early as Friday.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/08/07/senate-climate-inflation-vote/10238641002/

[Emdog]

Price of insulin was not capped at $30, so Republicans had a small victory

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Emdog said:

Price of insulin was not capped at $30, so Republicans had a small victory

Actually it was $35. Should be a good talking point for Democrats in the upcoming election.

[pomchop]

2 minutes ago, Emdog said:

Price of insulin was not capped at $30, so Republicans had a small victory

Let's all celebrate that republicans are against capping drug prices for Americans as well as against at least attempting to get us off the oil nipple.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, pomchop said:

Let's all celebrate that republicans are against capping drug prices for Americans as well as against at least attempting to get us off the oil nipple.

They actually opposed giving Medicare the right to negotiate drug prices. I wonder how this will play with the elderly.

Large majorities want Medicare to negotiate drug prices, poll finds

About 83% of all voters favor letting the federal government negotiate drug prices, including majorities across all political stripes.

https://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/large-majorities-want-medicare-negotiate-drug-prices-poll-finds

[Hanaguma]

...so, how will this bill reduce inflation exactly? Nobody has seemed to be able to find out yet. 

 

Taking more money from taxpayers and giving it to politicians so that they can pass it on to their pet subsidies is not anti-inflationary.   Shovelling more cash into climate change boondoggles is not anti-inflationary. Spending billions for the Post Office to buy electric trucks is going to reduce inflation? Give me a break. This should more accurately be called Build Back Broker 2.0.

[Pattaya Spotter]

But will Biden cheat the actuary tables and live long enough to sign the bill ???? 

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...so, how will this bill reduce inflation exactly? Nobody has seemed to be able to find out yet. 

 

Taking more money from taxpayers and giving it to politicians so that they can pass it on to their pet subsidies is not anti-inflationary.   Shovelling more cash into climate change boondoggles is not anti-inflationary. Spending billions for the Post Office to buy electric trucks is going to reduce inflation? Give me a break. This should more accurately be called Build Back Broker 2.0.

You have failed to notice that the bill also raises taxes which is anti-inflationary.

And please share with us the evidence that these measures are "climate change boondoggles".

What's more there will be a benefit to public health as air quality improves. As IMF studies show, fossil fuels are subsidized to the tune of about 6 percent of world GDP. Most of the subsidy comes in the form of the cost of illness and lost productivity due to pollution from fossil fuels.

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

...so, how will this bill reduce inflation exactly? Nobody has seemed to be able to find out yet. 

 

Taking more money from taxpayers and giving it to politicians so that they can pass it on to their pet subsidies is not anti-inflationary.   Shovelling more cash into climate change boondoggles is not anti-inflationary. Spending billions for the Post Office to buy electric trucks is going to reduce inflation? Give me a break. This should more accurately be called Build Back Broker 2.0.

Also, Medicare would be empowered to negotiate drug prices.

[pomchop]

59 minutes ago, placeholder said:

They actually opposed giving Medicare the right to negotiate drug prices. I wonder how this will play with the elderly.

Large majorities want Medicare to negotiate drug prices, poll finds

About 83% of all voters favor letting the federal government negotiate drug prices, including majorities across all political stripes.

https://www.healthcarefinancenews.com/news/large-majorities-want-medicare-negotiate-drug-prices-poll-finds

It seems that they oppose most every major issue that the majority of citizens favor.  

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, pomchop said:

It seems that they oppose most every major issue that the majority of citizens favor.  

Especially when it comes to legislation that will  cost the wealthy. If you want to know who Republic politicians truly favor, "Follow the Money" tells you all that you need to know.

[Hanaguma]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You have failed to notice that the bill also raises taxes which is anti-inflationary.

And please share with us the evidence that these measures are "climate change boondoggles".

What's more there will be a benefit to public health as air quality improves. As IMF studies show, fossil fuels are subsidized to the tune of about 6 percent of world GDP. Most of the subsidy comes in the form of the cost of illness and lost productivity due to pollution from fossil fuels.

So, according to analysis, exactly how much is this bill supposed to reduce inflation? One thing is for sure, it does guarantee larger deficits in the future.  It also ensures ever more grubby hands reaching into ever more pockets as the IRS will double in size. 

 

Subsidies to pet projects do not do so. All forms of so-called "clean energy" rely on back-up by fossil fuel.  The big downside is the lack of storage capacity for wind, solar, etc.  The technology will develop naturally without interference by ol' Joe and his merry band of do-gooders.  How does $370 billion in subsidies reduce inflation?

 

According to the Wharton School of Business;

 

The Act would very slightly increase inflation until 2024 and decrease inflation thereafter. These point estimates are statistically indistinguishable from zero, thereby indicating low confidence that the legislation will have any impact on inflation.

 

https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2022/7/29/inflation-reduction-act-preliminary-estimates

[placeholder]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

So, according to analysis, exactly how much is this bill supposed to reduce inflation? One thing is for sure, it does guarantee larger deficits in the future.  It also ensures ever more grubby hands reaching into ever more pockets as the IRS will double in size. 

 

Subsidies to pet projects do not do so. All forms of so-called "clean energy" rely on back-up by fossil fuel.  The big downside is the lack of storage capacity for wind, solar, etc.  The technology will develop naturally without interference by ol' Joe and his merry band of do-gooders.  How does $370 billion in subsidies reduce inflation?

 

According to the Wharton School of Business;

 

The Act would very slightly increase inflation until 2024 and decrease inflation thereafter. These point estimates are statistically indistinguishable from zero, thereby indicating low confidence that the legislation will have any impact on inflation.

 

https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2022/7/29/inflation-reduction-act-preliminary-estimates

The IRS has been starved of money for years by the Republicans. It's funny considering how Republicans are always pushing the government to be more like business. Yet investment in the IRS offers a big return but somehow they just can't get behind it.

 

The richest 1 percent dodge taxes on more than one-fifth of their income, study shows

The richest Americans are hiding more than 20 percent of their earnings from the Internal Revenue Service, according to a comprehensive new estimate of tax evasion, with the top 1 percent of earners accounting for more than a third of all unpaid federal taxes.

That’s costing the federal government roughly $175 billion a year in revenue, according to the findings by a team of economists from academia and the IRS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/03/26/wealthy-tax-evasion/

 

And that number could well be higher

 

Tax cheats cost the U.S. $1 trillion per year, I.R.S. chief says.

The United States is losing $1 trillion in unpaid taxes every year, Charles Rettig, the Internal Revenue Service commissioner, estimated on Tuesday, arguing that the agency lacks the resources to catch tax cheats.

The so-called tax gap has surged in the last decade. The last official estimate from the I.R.S. was that an average of $441 billion per year went unpaid from 2011 to 2013. Most of the unpaid taxes are the result of evasion by the wealthy and large corporations, Mr. Rettig said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/business/irs-tax-gap.html

 

How big is the problem of tax evasion?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/04/09/how-big-is-the-problem-of-tax-evasion/

 

Well even if the bill is not anti-inflationary, it's not inflationary either according to that report Why isn't that good enough?

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The IRS has been starved of money for years by the Republicans. It's funny considering how Republicans are always pushing the government to be more like business. Yet investment in the IRS offers a big return but somehow they just can't get behind it.

 

The richest 1 percent dodge taxes on more than one-fifth of their income, study shows

The richest Americans are hiding more than 20 percent of their earnings from the Internal Revenue Service, according to a comprehensive new estimate of tax evasion, with the top 1 percent of earners accounting for more than a third of all unpaid federal taxes.

That’s costing the federal government roughly $175 billion a year in revenue, according to the findings by a team of economists from academia and the IRS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/03/26/wealthy-tax-evasion/

 

And that number could well be higher

 

Tax cheats cost the U.S. $1 trillion per year, I.R.S. chief says.

The United States is losing $1 trillion in unpaid taxes every year, Charles Rettig, the Internal Revenue Service commissioner, estimated on Tuesday, arguing that the agency lacks the resources to catch tax cheats.

The so-called tax gap has surged in the last decade. The last official estimate from the I.R.S. was that an average of $441 billion per year went unpaid from 2011 to 2013. Most of the unpaid taxes are the result of evasion by the wealthy and large corporations, Mr. Rettig said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/business/irs-tax-gap.html

 

How big is the problem of tax evasion?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2019/04/09/how-big-is-the-problem-of-tax-evasion/

 

Well even if the bill is not anti-inflationary, it's not inflationary either according to that report Why isn't that good enough?

Going after tax cheats has been constant, and never works.  It is akin to "finding waste, fraud, and abuse" for more money.  Good luck with that. The IRS will inevitably go after the low hanging fruit, which means people who dont have tax lawyers and accountants.

 

As for the reduction of inflation being unimportant, why the heck is it called the "Inflation REDUCTION Act" then...

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Going after tax cheats has been constant, and never works.  It is akin to "finding waste, fraud, and abuse" for more money.  Good luck with that. The IRS will inevitably go after the low hanging fruit, which means people who dont have tax lawyers and accountants.

 

As for the reduction of inflation being unimportant, why the heck is it called the "Inflation REDUCTION Act" then...

Utter nonsense. Audit rates of the rich and wealthy have plummeted in the wake of funding cuts. Are you seriously contending that IRS audits don't raise cash?

 

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Utter nonsense. Audit rates of the rich and wealthy have plummeted in the wake of funding cuts. Are you seriously contending that IRS audits don't raise cash?

 

Yes. Obama tried the same thing, and it failed.  The rich and the corporations are too clever to be caught, and the burden will inevitably fall on working people.

[Berkshire]

For a guy who's been getting attacked from all sides, Biden sure has been getting a lot done.  People are actually starting to notice.  So much winning!

 

[Don't believe Trump and the GOP: Biden and the Democrats are winning]

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dont-believe-trump-gop-biden-130045250.html

 

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes. Obama tried the same thing, and it failed.  The rich and the corporations are too clever to be caught, and the burden will inevitably fall on working people.

I have googled in vain for any evidence that this is the case. And keep in mind that when Obama took office the nation was reeling economically from the onset of the Great Recession.

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, Emdog said:

Price of insulin was not capped at $30, so Republicans had a small victory

This is the biggie. The GOP just killed millions more people.

 

https://www.politico.com/sponsored-content/2022/july/health-care-in-america?utm_source=native&utm_medium=homepage

Edited August 8, 2022 by ozimoron

[Eric Loh]

Let put on record that NONE of the GOP senators voted for the landmark bill for the people to curb inflation, lower healthcare costs, investment for clean energy solutions etc. They are more interest in election denial, childish rejection of critical thinking skills and pathetic crusading against woke. Nothing on policies. A no policy party. Schumer was magnanimous and not single out the useless GOP senators and remind the people that congress can still work for the people.  

Edited August 8, 2022 by Eric Loh
Edit

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

So, according to analysis, exactly how much is this bill supposed to reduce inflation? One thing is for sure, it does guarantee larger deficits in the future.  It also ensures ever more grubby hands reaching into ever more pockets as the IRS will double in size. 

 

Subsidies to pet projects do not do so. All forms of so-called "clean energy" rely on back-up by fossil fuel.  The big downside is the lack of storage capacity for wind, solar, etc.  The technology will develop naturally without interference by ol' Joe and his merry band of do-gooders.  How does $370 billion in subsidies reduce inflation?

 

According to the Wharton School of Business;

 

The Act would very slightly increase inflation until 2024 and decrease inflation thereafter. These point estimates are statistically indistinguishable from zero, thereby indicating low confidence that the legislation will have any impact on inflation.

 

https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2022/7/29/inflation-reduction-act-preliminary-estimates

The increase in IRS resources is to target the billions of $ tax avoidance that the Republicans enabled by stripping back the IRS.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes. Obama tried the same thing, and it failed.  The rich and the corporations are too clever to be caught, and the burden will inevitably fall on working people.

Prisons are full of people who believed themselves too clever to be caught.

 

Where there is a will, there’s a way.

 

The will to tackle tax evasion just showed up.

[candide]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

So, according to analysis, exactly how much is this bill supposed to reduce inflation? One thing is for sure, it does guarantee larger deficits in the future.  It also ensupposed to reduce inflation? One thing is for sure, it does guarantee larger deficits in the futuresures ever more grubby hands reaching into ever more pockets as the IRS will double in size. 

 

Subsidies to pet projects do not do so. All forms of so-called "clean energy" rely on back-up by fossil fuel.  The big downside is the lack of storage capacity for wind, solar, etc.  The technology will develop naturally without interference by ol' Joe and his merry band of do-gooders.  How does $370 billion in subsidies reduce inflation?

 

According to the Wharton School of Business;

 

The Act would very slightly increase inflation until 2024 and decrease inflation thereafter. These point estimates are statistically indistinguishable from zero, thereby indicating low confidence that the legislation will have any impact on inflation.

 

https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2022/7/29/inflation-reduction-act-preliminary-estimates

The report you linked also said it will reduce (a bit) budget deficit, so there is no "for sure, it does guarantee larger deficits in the future".

So according to the report you linked:

- budget deficit reduction

- no significant inflation effect.

It's not bad for a bill bringing plenty of other benefits.

 

Why is it called "inflation reduction act"? 

For the same reason the GOP is claiming it can reduce inflation with policies which cannot actually reduce inflation on short term. Now the Dems have the inflation reduction act. This reason is called "politics".

[candide]

4 hours ago, Emdog said:

Price of insulin was not capped at $30, so Republicans had a small victory

 

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Actually it was $35. Should be a good talking point for Democrats in the upcoming election.

And the reason is....money!

 

"The average American insulin user spent $3490 on insulin in 2018 compared with $725 among Canadians. Over the study period, the average cost per unit of insulin in the United States increased by 10.3% compared with only 0.01% in Canada."

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(21)00883-1/fulltext

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Let put on record that NONE of the GOP senators voted for the landmark bill for the people to curb inflation, lower healthcare costs, investment for clean energy solutions etc. They are more interest in election denial, childish rejection of critical thinking skills and pathetic crusading against woke. Nothing on policies. A no policy party. Schumer was magnanimous and not single out the useless GOP senators and remind the people that congress can still work for the people.  

Probably because this "landmark" bill is more likely to create higher inflation:

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/inflation-bill-sinema-manchin-senate-horribly-misnamed-rcna41712

 

But the Inflation Reduction Act isn’t just misnamed because it won’t do what its title promises — it will likely make inflation worse by raising the cost of producing goods and services and lowering their overall supply. The higher cost and consequent lower supply of goods means that money circulating in the economy is used to purchase fewer goods, thereby pushing up the price of goods, leading to higher inflation. 

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Probably because this "landmark" bill is more likely to create higher inflation:

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/inflation-bill-sinema-manchin-senate-horribly-misnamed-rcna41712

 

But the Inflation Reduction Act isn’t just misnamed because it won’t do what its title promises — it will likely make inflation worse by raising the cost of producing goods and services and lowering their overall supply. The higher cost and consequent lower supply of goods means that money circulating in the economy is used to purchase fewer goods, thereby pushing up the price of goods, leading to higher inflation. 

There's no other way to control climate change or reduce drug prices other than government spending. There will be pain involved but on the plus side, just maybe our kids will have a livable future. It's a shame the right didn't raise this issue when Trump gave away 2.5 trillion to the rich.

Edited August 8, 2022 by ozimoron

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

There's no other way to control climate change or reduce drug prices other than government spending. There will be pain involved but on the plus side, ju7st maybe our kids will have a liveable future. It's a shame the right didn't raise this issue when Trump gave away 2.5 trillion to the rich.

When someone uses Trump's name so soon, as part of any attempt to justify Democratic legislation, then they are obviously struggling with that attempt. 

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

When someone uses Trump's name so soon, as part of any attempt to justify Democratic legislation, then they are obviously struggling with that attempt. 

Really? 390 billion will increase inflation but 2.5 trillion not?

 

Trump's giveaway produced nil productive investment. Most of the money went to tax havens and share buy backs. It was a major driver of the current inflation that we see now.

Edited August 8, 2022 by ozimoron

[Fat is a type of crazy]

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Going after tax cheats has been constant, and never works.  It is akin to "finding waste, fraud, and abuse" for more money.  Good luck with that. The IRS will inevitably go after the low hanging fruit, which means people who dont have tax lawyers and accountants.

 

As for the reduction of inflation being unimportant, why the heck is it called the "Inflation REDUCTION Act" then...

It definitely works. Audit staff normally pay their way and much more by the money they bring. Surely more staff, and bringing in more expert staff at a fair pay to compete with private enterprise, is a good thing. There's nothing inevitable but Republicans  being happy with a hobbled tax office and the status quo regarding drug costs. Now need Democrats to sell it. 

[candide]

45 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Probably because this "landmark" bill is more likely to create higher inflation:

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/inflation-bill-sinema-manchin-senate-horribly-misnamed-rcna41712

 

But the Inflation Reduction Act isn’t just misnamed because it won’t do what its title promises — it will likely make inflation worse by raising the cost of producing goods and services and lowering their overall supply. The higher cost and consequent lower supply of goods means that money circulating in the economy is used to purchase fewer goods, thereby pushing up the price of goods, leading to higher inflation. 

Well, Wharton School of Business, cited by Hanaguma (in a post you liked), desagrees with it and considers the impact on inflation will be statistically indistinguishable from zero,