Solar - 8kW Hybrid Inverter w/10kWh (upgraded to 20kWh in Sept. 2022) ESS/battery (not DIY)

[KhunLA]

23 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Possibly my last ฿100+ bill from PEA:  18 units = ฿103.73

28/39 units for Sept/Aug.  Solar installed 4 August

 

Meter readings 26-27-28th, digital meter since 19 August

August - test test test, conservative to 8 days feed in to grid

 

September, more normalized use

 

October 3rd, second 10kW ESS added for ttl: 20kW of ESS

 

Pick up MG ZS EV tomorrow, nothing life changing expected ????

Just few 1000 extra baht in the pocket every month.

 

 

 

 

 

Got to love a system that works ... ????

 

Wife just tried to pay PEA bill with a bank transfer ...

... NO can do, or shall I correctly say NO NEED to do ????

 

Per PEA policy, only use a few units a month and it's FREE ????

 

Our 3rd month (28-39-18 units) ...

"All electricity users type 1.1.1 who use no more than 50 units of electricity per month. Still entitled to free electricity bill up to the electricity bill for December 2015 and from the electricity bill for January 2016 onwards, electricity users type 1.1.1 who are entitled to free electricity Must not be a juristic person and use no more than 50 units of electricity per month. consecutively for a period of not less than 3 months up to the current month "

 

I could actually top up the car every month, on the grid, and it would be free.  Our local energy comes from natural gas & solar, I think, as gas is just a few kms from house, maybe 2kms, and 2 solar farms not really far away, but doubt if serving our area.

 

Now our largest 'non food' bill is water.  Averaging about 4-500 a month ????

For all that free food ????

 

Save rain water for drinking 

 

[MJCM]

21 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

"All electricity users type 1.1.1 who use no more than 50 units of electricity per month. Still entitled to free electricity bill up to the electricity bill for December 2015 and from the electricity bill for January 2016 onwards, electricity users type 1.1.1 who are entitled to free electricity Must not be a juristic person and use no more than 50 units of electricity per month. consecutively for a period of not less than 3 months up to the current month "

That is weird, I thought that only applies to meters 5/15A and not above but hey TiT ????

 

as this is listed in the text

 

Quote

1. Customer, who has installed meter up to 5 Amp., 220 V., 1 Phase, 2 Wires, is classified under 1.1.1. If the customer consumes over 150 kWh for 3 consecutive months, he/she will be reclassified under 1.1.2 in the following month. When the
customer does not consume over 150 kWh for 3 consecutive months, he/she will be reclassified under 1.1.1 in the following month.

2. Customer, who has installed meter over 5 Amp., 220 V., 1 Phase, 2 Wires, is classified under 1.1.2.

 

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, MJCM said:

That is weird, I thought that only applies to meters 5/15A and not above but hey TiT ????

 

as this is listed in the text

It's a digital meter, so possibly regulates the draw, and if not going over 15A, it doesn't rate it as such.  Because I'm pretty certain, we have 30A service available, as questioned (why you have / need 30A ?) about it a few times, when all 3 meters installed, temp/temp (3ph)/digital.  Seemed surprised a residence, especially small house (120m²) would want/need.

 

Possibly not drawn enough to need, register on the meter as 30A.  She tried scan/transfer, not an in person payment, so not an rep error.

[KhunLA]

MG ZS EV 2022

Started granny charging yesterday @60%, <3hrs added ~6kW / 11%

Charging now since 0800 ish hrs, and hope to be topped up by 1600hrs

 

Also hope the ESSs are topped up by that time also, as needing 13kW since 0730 hrs.

 

Along with nephew working in carport, cutting & welding steel sporadically.

 

Solar system handling the task nicely, with no assistance from the grid:

[KhunLA]

12  noon and ESSs topped up and car at 86% ... ????

 

[KhunLA]

Right on time, and Solar has impressed every step of the way ❤️

 

[KhunLA]

Think it is safe to say, we are out of playing conservative with the solar system.

 

August with few excepts, around 12-15kW a day.

September saw that breaking 18-20kW a day

October was 20+ a day, increasing later on.

 

Now looks like we be around 30kW a day moving forward, and it's not even hot temps yet.

 

Last night & this morning was damn chilly, 21°C / 69.8°F, yea, that's embarrassing.

 

At 30kW a day X 30 days = 900 a month = ฿5000 (PEA bill)

ROI, without additional use, about 7.5 yrs ????

 

[JAS21]

6 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Think it is safe to say, we are out of playing conservative with the solar system.

 

August with few excepts, around 12-15kW a day.

September saw that breaking 18-20kW a day

October was 20+ a day, increasing later on.

 

Now looks like we be around 30kW a day moving forward, and it's not even hot temps yet.

 

Last night & this morning was damn chilly, 21°C / 69.8°F, yea, that's embarrassing.

 

At 30kW a day X 30 days = 900 a month = ฿5000 (PEA bill)

ROI, without additional use, about 7.5 yrs ????

 

Out of interest what was your actual maximiun generated kW reading ie highest instantaneous reading of kWs. Just wanted to know your relationship between max gen kWs and installed kWs.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, JAS21 said:

Out of interest what was your actual maximiun generated kW reading ie highest instantaneous reading of kWs. Just wanted to know your relationship between max gen kWs and installed kWs.

Probably this day, 18Aug, most generated, 49ish, used 30ish, sent 19ish to grid, on partly sunny day. 

 

Looking back over the graphs, peek at 9 (?), or just shy of.  Though would think, should only peek at 8ish, since 8kW inverter.

 

Have 18 X .540 panels = 9.72 @ 80% = 7.76

Since can't export, it will only show generated what's needed.  Below graph is yesterday, charging ESSs & EV, so about the max to expect also, but also an air pollution day, so not clear skies.  Post above yours shows the production/consumption #s.

 

[KhunLA]

Another heavy use of the solar day ... 37.8kW produced.

37.8 X 30 days = 1134kW / PEA Units = ฿6300 monthly bill.

ROI at that rate would be < 6 years, and it wasn't even hot yesterday.

 

Both ACs not on all day, and not much electrical appliance cooking.  Did charge the car a bit, but only to 85%.  Minimal use of the car and charging it, only the 2nd time, as been hanging around the house putting some finishing touches on it the past few weeks.  Still use e-MB for morning park run with dog.  Charged that up the day before, but that doesn't take much.

 

I took a short O&A up to Sam Roi Yot (150kms R/T) the other day, and why the need to top up the car a bit.

 

Expect AC use to be a lot more come Feb, Mar, April, May, till the rains start, and at least 30kW a day, without charging the car.  If owning your home, you really need to consider a solar system, if only a 5kW on grid system.  Could easily do for 1/3 the cost of ours.  Knock ฿1500-2000 off your monthly bill and easily < 10 yr ROI.

 

Would recommend a hybid inverter though, for future expansion with ESS, if & when needed, wanting.

 

Pissin' down raining now, so getting the dust washed off the panels ????

[KhunLA]

On 10/29/2022 at 12:31 PM, MJCM said:

That is weird, I thought that only applies to meters 5/15A and not above but hey TiT ????

 

as this is listed in the text

 

 

OK ... we got our 'overdue' bill yesterday ????

 

I guess someone figured out we do have 30A service.   She, wife tried to scan pay, denied, then went into site and did a bank transfer, PAID

 

฿103.73 ... outrageous ????

[KhunLA]

Two contrasting days.  Yesterday, forecast cloudy but no rain.  Must have been some upper level pollution, thick cloud, and it did rain, quite a bit.

 

Panels only produce 8.2kW, probably lowest since installed, and we used 9kW.  Guessing 5 overnight, along with worker using a electric jack hammer a good part of the day.  No ACs, didn't need, or electric cooking worth mentioning.

 

Batteries never topping up.  If not raining, I was going to send a drone up to see if some palm leaves were on the panels ????

 

Checking forecast last night, and today was supposed to rain from 9am to 4pm ... great.  At midnight, take dog out for a sniff & pee, and I see stars ... nice.

 

Nice sunrise and sunshine with morning coffee.  By 10am the batteries are topped up.   Produced 16.kW, used 11.5kW ... Beautiful day ????

 

Heading into night @ 98% / 19.6kW

 

[Crossy]

16 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Two contrasting days.

 

Welcome to the world of solar energy

 

[KhunLA]

How much solar does our empty house use ?

Not much; 2 frigs & 1 light on, 24 hours.

 

Averages using just shy of 205 watts an hour.

The extra 0.3 kWh is for the inverter, so 300 watts over 24 hrs for the inverter

 

[KhunLA]

A few EV charging days ????

[KhunLA]

 

 

 

I'm actually quite surprised how little electric we've used so far, in the new house.  Obvious the build, far superior than townhouse (non end unit) we were renting.  Used 6-700kW there, w/ 1 sm AC unit. 

 

Averaging 500kW here a month, sitting in the open, no natural shading of the roof.  

 

Once the 4 units; 2 frigs & 2 ACs (13 & 24BTUs) are up and running, they seem to draw very little.

 

Frigs are nothing special, medium size.  ACs are newer inverters.

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

[indyo]

at 3,9 baht per unit what the sense of all that? at 15 unit per day at actual electricity cost you will probably repaid all in 16 years, too much for me, as I was thinking to do the same and still thinking about it.

[Crossy]

27 minutes ago, indyo said:

at 3,9 baht per unit what the sense of all that? at 15 unit per day at actual electricity cost you will probably repaid all in 16 years, too much for me, as I was thinking to do the same and still thinking about it.

 

Actually, about half that for non-DIY grid-tie.

DIY grid-tie should payback in 3-4 years IF you can do the unofficial net-metering. 

 

Going hybrid is certainly rather more expensive, but payback time isn't everything. Hybrid users also become immune to grid outages which can be rather common out in the sticks.

 

Don't forget the cost of power will be increasing significantly in the new-year too.

 

And, of course, once you have achieved payback your power is free!

[KhunLA]

50 minutes ago, indyo said:

at 3,9 baht per unit what the sense of all that? at 15 unit per day at actual electricity cost you will probably repaid all in 16 years, too much for me, as I was thinking to do the same and still thinking about it.

Depending on future use, as we've been conservative, testing, and rainy season has been excellent, in that we rarely have needed to use the ACs.  Surely that will change come Feb, Mar, April & May.

 

Estimate 7-10 yr ROI, as more use, and more EV driving, since we've been hanging around the house, doing finishing touches, instead of exploring locally.

 

I might be around for that ROI ... the wife will definitely benefit, for the 20-30 yrs after I'm gone.  The investment wasn't all for cost savings, though nice, but more for independence.  Our system is a little overkill, but also means it won't need upgrading, and will last much longer.   Especially where the ESSs are concerned.

 

Of course if you're out all day, working, kids in school, don't use much then full on system w/ESSs may not be beneficial.   BUT, if have a meter that will go in reverse, to offset your daily & nightly use, then as stated, an inexpensive 5kW system would be more than enough, and ROI rather quickly. 

 

฿3.9 per unit .... not for our use.

IF only 500 units = ฿2,666 PEA bill

฿5.332 per unit

 

Will probably average closer to 700kW next year/March & onward.

฿3812 PEA bill @ ฿5.4457 per unit

[indyo]

7 yr ROI would be great

 

[MJCM]

1 hour ago, indyo said:

7 yr ROI would be great

 

I don't care at all about the ROI that was never my intention when starting with Solar, but I don't know if you noticed but electricity is only getting more and more expensive. Watch your Electricity Bill next month with a prospective increase (not 100% sure yet) of around 2 THB per UNIT so to around 5-6 THB per UNIT. This will hurt a lot of people.

 

Just have a look at this thread by @007 RED and his return on investment if you are looking for ROI but you need to be able to install it yourself

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1273863-1st-anniversary/

 

2 hours ago, indyo said:

at 3,9 baht per unit what the sense of all that? at 15 unit per day at actual electricity cost you will probably repaid all in 16 years, too much for me, as I was thinking to do the same and still thinking about it.

3.9 THB per unit is ONLY if you stay under a certain limit (< 300 units per month approx) and the discount that people where getting STOPS this MONTH. Full price and more are coming next month.

 

[Encid]

17 minutes ago, MJCM said:

Watch your Electricity Bill next month with a prospective increase (not 100% sure yet) of around 2 THB per UNIT so to around 5-6 THB per UNIT.

Where did you hear that?

We've had a significant increase already in September this year.

[MJCM]

54 minutes ago, Encid said:

Where did you hear that?

We've had a significant increase already in September this year.

On here of course ????

 

That was the Increase in FT you experienced, It is going to increase even more that Ft surcharge (could be up to 2 THB per Unit) More details in the posts below (1st one is the original topic 2nd one more detailed)

 

[MJCM]

1 topic

 

 

Will have to find the reply I wrote about it

[MJCM]

What I wrote in that topic below was this

 

(This link has all the details)
https://www.thaipbsworld.com/service-fees-for-household-and-small-business-electricity-use-to-be-cut-jan-apr/

 

to read about it, because the AN post (which I linked to above) writes about the decrease in service charge but NOT about what is going to hurt and that is the massive increase in Ft (per UNIT) (which could be as much as 2 THB PER UNIT)

 

 

[KhunLA]

46 minutes ago, MJCM said:

What I wrote in that topic below was this

 

(This link has all the details)
https://www.thaipbsworld.com/service-fees-for-household-and-small-business-electricity-use-to-be-cut-jan-apr/

 

to read about it, because the AN post (which I linked to above) writes about the decrease in service charge but NOT about what is going to hurt and that is the massive increase in Ft (per UNIT) (which could be as much as 2 THB PER UNIT)

 

 

Here's the not so 'fine print' ...

"In the first scenario, the FT rate for the January-April period will be 224.98 satang per unit, so that the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (EGAT) will be able to recover its losses, incurred from its subsidy of electricity price, amounting to about 81 billion baht, in one year. This means the price of electricity will be increased to 6.03 baht per unit.

 

In the second scenario, the FT will be 191.64 satang, so EGAT will be able to recover its losses, incurred from its subsidy of electricity price, in two years. This will bring the price of electricity rate to 5.70 baht per unit.

 

Under the third scenario, the price of electricity will be 5.37 baht per unit."

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/service-fees-for-household-and-small-business-electricity-use-to-be-cut-jan-apr/

[Muhendis]

So whatever happens with the price rises, my next lot of batteries will seem even cheaper (relatively).

[indyo]

so now is it possible to send back to the grid the overproduction? some years ago' for small producers where denied to do that if I don't get wrong, it was necessary a grid tie inverter. is there a way to sell the overproduction as I do in Europe?

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, indyo said:

so now is it possible to send back to the grid the overproduction? some years ago' for small producers where denied to do that if I don't get wrong, it was necessary a grid tie inverter. is there a way to sell the overproduction as I do in Europe?

 

Yes, with caveats of course.

 

You absolutely must have a grid-tie inverter, this is non-negotiable!!

 

If you have a conventional disc type meter, these will happily spin backwards when exporting. Of course, this is not permitted and you need to ensure that your meter reader doesn't see it going backwards and you need to make sure you never actually become a net-exporter and end up with a negative meter reading**. There are vast numbers of small (and not so small) systems operating like this and the authorities generally turn a blind eye. This doesn't work with the newer electronic meters, in fact there have been reports of electronic meters counting UP on export so you get billed for the energy you give to the grid!

 

The alternative is to go legal. Doing it this way will at least double the cost of your system and half the rate you are paid for the energy you export. You need to use approved equipment and use an approved installer, there's then a stack of paperwork and a wait (often a very long wait) to get your export meter installed. 

 

** People do get caught out, but the worst punishment I'm aware of is a slapped wrist and the installation of a no-reverse meter.

 

Alternatively, you could find local uses for your over-production, heat your hot water, charge your EV, run your A/C flat out for your pet polar-bear (although penguins are less likely to eat you). Much depends upon your usage patterns.