flipper2222222 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Here is the scenario Using a Bricks and motor Real Estate agent is 15 years in business in the same location Both seller and buyer using registered Thai lawyers Buyer’s lawyer and buyer has seen copies all relevant documents, chanote, Tabian Bahn, and owner’s Thai ID, power of attorney documents, land office and treasury documents. Seller is Australian Buyer is Australian, partner is a Thai national (legally married in Thailand) Owner on Chanote is Seller’s daughter , Thai National Seller has power of attorney granted to by the daughter Thai ID of land owner expires 19th September 2022 Sale date is 12th September 2022 buyer will purchase property using 80% AUD$ 20% THB Seller, buyer, both lawyers and agent will be at the land office on the day of transfer of chanote, owner of land will not be there and is currently not contactable. Whereabouts unknown. If anyone has any relevant experience in this area would be much appreciated if they can answer the below questions. Would save me double guessing our lawyer. Just in case. My questions are 1 is the seller legally allowed to sell the property to us? 2 Is it possible for the daughter to try and challenge in court the sale after the chanote has been signed over to my partner who is a Thai national? Thanks in advance, and please not trolls…….only helpful advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Dont see how seller and buyer are Australian ? (Condo ?) Property(land etc) needs to be owned by a THAI ! ? (unless companies involved). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhFarangJa Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, CharlieH said: Dont see how seller and buyer are Australian ? Property needs to be owned by a THAI ! ? (unless companies involved). 18 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said: Buyer is Australian, partner is a Thai national (legally married in Thailand) Owner on Chanote is Seller’s daughter , Thai National It looks to me that both parties are Thai national Charlie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterfranks Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, CharlieH said: Dont see how seller and buyer are Australian ? (Condo ?) Property(land etc) needs to be owned by a THAI ! ? (unless companies involved). Seller is actually the Thai daughter of the Australian, but since her whereabouts are not known, I doubt there is a power of attorney signed by her. So how they gonna transfer the chanote? Edited August 13, 2022 by peterfranks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said: It looks to me that both parties are Thai national Charlie. As stated in OP.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excel Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 minute ago, peterfranks said: Seller is actually the Thai daughter of the Australian, but since her whereabouts are no know, I doubt there is a power of attorney signed by her. So how they gonna transfer the chanote? Wouldn't trust any dodgy Thai lawyer either 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Liverpool Lou Posted August 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, CharlieH said: Dont see how seller and buyer are Australian ? (Condo ?) Property(land etc) needs to be owned by a THAI ! ? (unless companies involved). As stated in the OP, Charlie, "Owner on Chanote is Seller’s daughter , Thai National". Why are some quotes, such as that above, automatically bolded by the forum when copy and pasted? The bolding isn't mine! Edited August 13, 2022 by Liverpool Lou 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungod Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Excel said: Wouldn't trust any dodgy Thai lawyer either Why not, how do you know the lawyer is dodgy? Do you consider all Thai lawyers dodgy? Had a couple of great lawyers act for me over the years on land purchase/sales. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipper2222222 Posted August 13, 2022 Author Share Posted August 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, peterfranks said: Seller is actually the Thai daughter of the Australian, but since her whereabouts are not known, I doubt there is a power of attorney signed by her. So how they gonna transfer the chanote? we have seen the signed copies of the power of attorney. that is the question does the power of attorney grant the power to sell the land and transfer the chanote from Thai national to Thai national Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhFarangJa Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, CharlieH said: As stated in OP.......... Agreed it does say that, (though not in such large font). However, it does also say that the seller is a Thai national, i.e. the daughter of the seller. However, we could banter the symantics around all day, but it does nothing to answer the question. As someone else has pointed out, a Thai lawyer is involved which would put doubt in my mind. My Wife and I recently sold one of our houses and land. Even though I signed a power of attorney I still had to go to the land office because there was a userfruct on the land in my name, which was not covered by power of attorney. I guess at the end of the day if they come out with a new name on the Chanote, and a receipt for transfer tax etc, that would hold up in a court. on the other hand, this being Thailand and the propensity for reams, and reams of paper for the slightest transaction anything could happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said: that is the question does the power of attorney grant the power to sell the land and transfer the chanote from Thai national to Thai national Sort of depends on what the PoA states! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhFarangJa Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said: we have seen the signed copies of the power of attorney. that is the question does the power of attorney grant the power to sell the land and transfer the chanote from Thai national to Thai national I would imagine if the wording on the power of attorney is for the land transfer / sale, then it should be legal. Edited August 13, 2022 by AhFarangJa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excel Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, AhFarangJa said: Agreed it does say that, (though not in such large font). However, it does also say that the seller is a Thai national, i.e. the daughter of the seller. However, we could banter the symantics around all day, but it does nothing to answer the question. As someone else has pointed out, a Thai lawyer is involved which would put doubt in my mind. My Wife and I recently sold one of our houses and land. Even though I signed a power of attorney I still had to go to the land office because there was a userfruct on the land in my name, which was not covered by power of attorney. I guess at the end of the day if they come out with a new name on the Chanote, and a receipt for transfer tax etc, that would hold up in a court. on the other hand, this being Thailand and the propensity for reams, and reams of paper for the slightest transaction anything could happen. The land department in my experience will insist that the actual owner listed on the Chanote is present to sign ( unless deceased in which a case a further process is required to establish ownership). Now who knows what will happen if dodgy lawyers get involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungod Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Excel said: The land department in my experience will insist that the actual owner listed on the Chanote is present to sign ( unless deceased in which a case a further process is required to establish ownership). Now who knows what will happen if dodgy lawyers get involved. Rubbish, the owner on the chanote does definitely not have to be there if POA is granted and correct paperwork prepared prior. Edited August 13, 2022 by sungod 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipper2222222 Posted August 13, 2022 Author Share Posted August 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: Sort of depends on what the PoA states! the POA states (rough translation from google translate) that the seller (Australian Father) has the same power as the owner (Thai national -daughter) on the said chanote with the correct address and the building that occupies the land and that any act that the father performs about the land or house would be the same as if if it had been done by herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Peterw42 Posted August 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Excel said: The land department in my experience will insist that the actual owner listed on the Chanote is present to sign ( unless deceased in which a case a further process is required to establish ownership). Now who knows what will happen if dodgy lawyers get involved. The owner doesnt have to be there if they have given POA to someone, that's what POA is for. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excel Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, Peterw42 said: The owner doesnt have to be there if they have given POA to someone, that's what POA is for. Not in my experience at the Land Department as I stated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Harry Black Posted August 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Excel said: The land department in my experience will insist that the actual owner listed on the Chanote is present to sign ( unless deceased in which a case a further process is required to establish ownership). Now who knows what will happen if dodgy lawyers get involved. No, definitely not the case. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Black Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Excel said: Not in my experience at the Land Department as I stated. They are leading you up the garden path, and you are concerned about 'dodgy lawyers!' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said: 14 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said: Sort of depends on what the PoA states! the POA states (rough translation from google translate) that the seller (Australian Father) has the same power as the owner (Thai national -daughter) on the said chanote with the correct address and the building that occupies the land and that any act that the father performs about the land or house would be the same as if if it had been done by herself. So you have the answer to your question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excel Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Harry Black said: No, definitely not the case. Tied of arguing with the know nothings. I stated correctly "not in my experience" and that was based on my experience at Don Mueng Land Department. So you and your pals just carry on giving people misleading information rather than factual advice. Edited August 13, 2022 by Excel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterw42 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 45 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said: My questions are 1 is the seller legally allowed to sell the property to us? 2 Is it possible for the daughter to try and challenge in court 1) Yes, properties are sold using a POA everyday. 2) No, not if everything is in order with the POA. Why would she be challenging in court if she has signed a POA to sell it ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Lou Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 26 minutes ago, Excel said: Wouldn't trust any dodgy Thai lawyer either Perhaps they've chosen not to use a dodgy lawyer? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sungod Posted August 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, Excel said: Tied of arguing with the know nothings. I stated correctly "not in my experience" and that was based on my experience at Don Mueng Land Department. Nothing to argue about, as stated by multiple posters you are incorrect. The purpose of this thread was to give the OP correct information, we are correcting you. Sorry if you dont like it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excel Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Just now, Liverpool Lou said: Perhaps they've chosen not to use a dodgy lawyer? If the lawyer has advised them that the sellor on the Chanote need not be present as the power of attorney for AN Other will suffice, then most certainly that is a dodgy lawyer. Unless of course officials at the land department are induced to ignore their own rules perhaps. In that case problems could well arise in the future. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Harry Black Posted August 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Excel said: Tied of arguing with the know nothings. I stated correctly "not in my experience" and that was based on my experience at Don Mueng Land Department. So you and your pals just carry on giving people misleading information rather than factual advice. The only person giving misleading information is actually you. You are completely incorrect. Us 'know nothings' seem to know a lot more than you in this case. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excel Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Harry Black said: The only person giving misleading information is actually you. You are completely incorrect. Us 'know nothings' seem to know a lot more than you in this case. ???????? Edited August 13, 2022 by Excel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Harry Black Posted August 13, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Excel said: If the lawyer has advised them that the sellor on the Chanote need not be present as the power of attorney for AN Other will suffice, then most certainly that is a dodgy lawyer. Unless of course officials at the land department are induced to ignore their own rules perhaps. In that case problems could well arise in the future. Keep digging, you are starting to look very silly now. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunLA Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said: we have seen the signed copies of the power of attorney. that is the question does the power of attorney grant the power to sell the land and transfer the chanote from Thai national to Thai national As long as the POA states so. That mirrors the exact selling of my first house/land here. I used POA (1st wife/divorced from) to sell house to another foreigner's wife. Coincidentally, also did the payment, most of, USD to USD in our USA banks, with a we bit of THB at settlement. All went smooth, no lawyers involved, just me & POA, wife of buyer & RE agent that I listed with, at the land office. If land office accepts POA, then would imagine it's legal to use. Ex-wife was not there or needed for anything. That was done at Udon Thani. Edited August 13, 2022 by KhunLA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excel Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 minute ago, KhunLA said: If land office accepts POA, then would imagine it's legal to use. And that my friend is exactly the issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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