Enoch Powell, he wasnt wrong in his forecast !

[ozimoron]

Just now, Excel said:

So we are now deflecting into other countries now are we !!!   What next linking Enoch Powells comments to the entire world ? Please stay with the threads specific subject matter. As a side note, as those immigrants were allowed into the UK then during the 1950's and 60's saw some of the highest levels of emigration from the UK, actually exceeding immigration levels at times. Guess they too saw what was going to happen and got out asap. 

No, the subject turned to second generation immigrants. Enoch Powell railed against their parents.

 

You just don't like the inclusive message.

[Excel]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

No, the subject turned to second generation immigrants. Enoch Powell railed against their parents.

 

You just don't like the inclusive message.

Perhaps you could just listen again to what Enoch was saying and keep to the EXACT subject matter, not what others like you have attempted to deflect it to.  

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

So we are now deflecting into other countries now are we !!!   What next linking Enoch Powells comments to the entire world ? Please stay with the threads specific subject matter. As a side note, as those immigrants were allowed into the UK then during the 1950's and 60's saw some of the highest levels of emigration from the UK, actually exceeding immigration levels at times. Guess they too saw what was going to happen and got out asap. 

I think the subject matter, relates to other countries, don't you...????

[Rimmer]

Unattributed post removed

 

A flame /name calling post has also been removed.

Calling another member a troll is flaming, that post will be removed and all the replies along with it.

[Excel]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

His words were certainly unmistakable. He is widely vilified for them.

Yes that is true and is the case in all walks of life , especially in politics and many people don't like nor are willing to accept the truth when told to them.

[Bruno123]

It's all very well looking at it from a 'native' point of view. But you don't look at how the countries from which the immigrants came were exploited to make the U.K prosperous in the first place.

Not only that, but cheap labour was imported to do the dirty jobs, fight wars etc

In addition, the immigrants from those times were often far better educated, conservative and diligent in comparison.

Doctors, lawyers, commerce....a long list can be put together of the positive aspects of immigration.

The issue would be uncontrolled immigration, as opposed to anything Mr Powell uttered.

 

As usual the ignorant racists are looking for the problem to fit their solution.

Actually a bit surprised as to who actually started this thread, but then not at all really.

 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Excel said:

 

The thread is about immigration and comments made by Enoch Powell 54 years ago that have turned out to have been prophetic. Now if you don't understand that then that is your problem but do not attempt to deflect this thread also. In fact you are back to ignore 

The problem with the vocal minority is that they believe they are the silent majority. Most people think he was just a racist.

[roo860]

37 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s see if you can work it out, there’s a clue somewhere.

Burnley

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Excel said:

 

The thread is about immigration and comments made by Enoch Powell 54 years ago that have turned out to have been prophetic. Now if you don't understand that then that is your problem but do not attempt to deflect this thread also. In fact you are back to ignore 

....And what he foresaw, well I saw.....I remember the Brixton riots, a no-go area, the chopping up of policeman P.C. Blakelock....????

 

Get off your high horse...????

[terryp]

if you really want to get to grips with whats going on research "The Frankfurt School", was started in 1923 at the University of Frankfurt ...you will never believe how many things happening today stem from that group 

[Jingthing]

I take Powell extremely negatively and am rather surprised to see a topic of admiration  towards him. My initial feeling is that he was like the notorious racist George Wallace but here's another theory.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/12/donald-trump-enoch-powell-rivers-of-blood

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The problem with the vocal minority is that they believe they are the silent majority. Most people think he was just a racist.

Definitely a racist.

[Excel]

8 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

As usual the ignorant racists are looking for the problem to fit their solution.

Ignorant racist ? Well well Enoch Powells academic achievements were quite outstanding which means he could hardly be called ignorant.  Now let's see, how do yours stack up against his so that we may have a fair comparison of the veracity of your comment ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell

[Bruno123]

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

Ignorant racist ? Well well Enoch Powells academic achievements were quite outstanding which means he could hardly be called ignorant.  Now let's see, how do yours stack up against his so that we may have a fair comparison of the veracity of your comment ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell

I'm a speed reader. Just one excerpt:

 

Quote

Powell returned to the government in July 1960, when he was appointed Health minister,^[116] although he did not become a member of the Cabinet until 1962.^[117] During a meeting with parents of babies that had been born with deformities caused by the drug thalidomide, he was unsympathetic to the victims, refusing to meet any babies affected by the drug.^[118] Powell also refused to launch a public inquiry, and resisted calls to issue a warning against any left-over thalidomide pills that might remain in people's medicine cabinets (as US President John F. Kennedy had done).

 

[Muzzique]

Enoch Powell is up there with Jordan B Peterson. They both have an insight which is spot on, but unless you listen and actually hear what they are actually saying they can be taken as being prejudiced.

 

They simply are showing the reality of how things are and how they will progress.

 

There is no bias or prejudice in their thinking, Just a natural progression of the order of things if the policies in place are allowed to progress.

Powell was absolutely not a racist. He talks about uncontrolled immigration. How it generates fear and that fear will manifest itself as resentment against those who settled. It was the same fear that British people have of uncontrolled immigration that lead to Brexit.

 

Before you throw racist or misogynistic rhetoric around listen closely to what people are saying. You may not like what they say about the consequences but they are stating facts not using prejudice in their arguments.

 

Had journalism been to the standard it is today then I'm sure Enoch would have been questioned harder and deeper and then you would be able to see his thinking did not come from a prejudicial viewpoint.

 

And listen to Jordan B Peterson when others try to twist his words into a prejudicial model. How he corrects them to make sure he is simply stating facts that are the conclusion of empirical evidence.

 

 

It is a pity Enoch is not here to correct the overview people have that his words were racist.

 

[ozimoron]

Curiously, Powell, like Trump, was also pro-Russia.

 

Maybe, then, the ultimate lesson of the Powell-Trump comparison is that a presidential system of government, like that in the US, is not superior in terms of the checks it imposes on political extremists. On the contrary, the opposite may be true.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/12/donald-trump-enoch-powell-rivers-of-blood

[Excel]

1 minute ago, Bruno123 said:

I'm a speed reader. Just one excerpt:

 

 

Well you seemed to have overlooked the question of academic achievements and your suggestion that racist are ignorant in your haste so for you here it is again;

 

"Now let's see, how do yours stack up against his so that we may have a fair comparison of the veracity of your comment ?"

 

 

 

[Baht Simpson]

I would advise people to view the full interview with Powell and Jonathan Miller.  It's on Youtube. 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

I would advise people to view the full interview with Powell and Jonathan Miller.  It's on Youtube. 

I would advise people not to bother.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

I would advise people to view the full interview with Powell and Jonathan Miller.  It's on Youtube. 

Is he interviewing Powell?

[Chomper Higgot]

30 minutes ago, Excel said:

 

The thread is about immigration and comments made by Enoch Powell 54 years ago that have turned out to have been prophetic. Now if you don't understand that then that is your problem but do not attempt to deflect this thread also. In fact you are back to ignore 

Powell’s words were not prophetic, they were racist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Baht Simpson]

9 minutes ago, Muzzique said:

Enoch Powell is up there with Jordan B Peterson. They both have an insight which is spot on, but unless you listen and actually hear what they are actually saying they can be taken as being prejudiced.

 

They simply are showing the reality of how things are and how they will progress.

 

There is no bias or prejudice in their thinking, Just a natural progression of the order of things if the policies in place are allowed to progress.

Powell was absolutely not a racist. He talks about uncontrolled immigration. How it generates fear and that fear will manifest itself as resentment against those who settled. It was the same fear that British people have of uncontrolled immigration that lead to Brexit.

 

Before you throw racist or misogynistic rhetoric around listen closely to what people are saying. You may not like what they say about the consequences but they are stating facts not using prejudice in their arguments.

 

Had journalism been to the standard it is today then I'm sure Enoch would have been questioned harder and deeper and then you would be able to see his thinking did not come from a prejudicial viewpoint.

 

And listen to Jordan B Peterson when others try to twist his words into a prejudicial model. How he corrects them to make sure he is simply stating facts that are the conclusion of empirical evidence.

 

 

It is a pity Enoch is not here to correct the overview people have that his words were racist.

 

Demonstrably untrue in both cases. Watch the whole interview on Youtube and you'll see how first Powell tries to stop Miller debating him by saying "This is my show" then twists several of Miller's points with the old "so what you're saying is..." trick. Miller rightly calls him out on it.

 

As for Peterson, well he's a slippery snake. But who better than a clinical psychologist to manipulate the weak.  He fools no right-minded person.

[Baht Simpson]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I would advise people not to bother.

You don't want to see Miller hand him his <deleted> on a plate? ????

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nah he was a racist, admired by racists.

 

 

He had a point though which got people to throw about the racist card like confetti.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, roo860 said:

Which town?

Manchester for one. ????

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

He had a point though which got people to throw about the racist card like confetti.

His point was attacking immigrants.

 

Some thought that a valid point.

[transam]

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

His point was attacking immigrants.

 

Some thought that a valid point.

Thought he was talking about the UK's future....????

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Thought he was talking about the UK's future....????

He was wrong about that too.

[Kwasaki]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

His point was attacking immigrants.

 

Some thought that a valid point.

Yeah immigrants surely did. 

[ozimoron]

27 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

You don't want to see Miller hand him his <deleted> on a plate? ????

No, for the same reasons as you advise people should see it.