British man dead, second seriously injured after motorbike collision with a garbage truck

[Eloquent pilgrim]

11 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Passed up Brits  driving drunk...A very common occurrence here.  Just lucky they didn't  kill anyone  else

I think you need to watch the cctv video, or at least check the facts of this accident before making puerile and totally unfounded statements; they are the victims here, not the perpetrators.

[worgeordie]

47 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Passed up Brits  driving drunk...A very common occurrence here.  Just lucky they didn't  kill anyone  else

I never read anywhere that said the Brits were drunk , just because they had

some alcohol under the seat , how much can you get under a seat anyway ?,

Looking at the video it was the garbage drivers fault , cutting the corner so

tight there was no where for them to go except under the truck,  have you

looked at the video ? , 

regards worgeordie 

[Thunglom]

8 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

So you’ve watched the footage showing the truck, not just turning right from the wrong side of the road, but cutting the corner off completely, and in so doing, wiping out the guys on the bike; yet you are conspiring to exonerate the truck driver from any blame and hang it all on the motorcyclist.

 

I guess we are all lucky that you're not an accident Investigator, because critical thinking is obviously not your strong suit.

 

And please stop using uppercase font, it is the online equivalent of shouting, and is against this forum's etiquette rules …. thanks

Explain the position of the motorbike.

[Thunglom]

I know the road well - it is the Prison turn-off on the ring road

Here is an hypothesis

 

It offers and explanation to why the bike was on the right of the truck.

It assumes the bike was coming from Chaweng.

 

The other possible explanation is the bike was coming down the road from the prison?

[huberthammer]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:10 AM, Grandpa Cool said:

Get a grip on it you guys!

There's CCTV footage of the incident. It will tell the story.

But, for the uninitiated, Samui is renowned for motorbike accidents.

Young Thais, Burmese and tourists speed like crazy, day and night, regardless of the traffic and road conditions. Many don't wear helmets, shoes or even a shirt! It seems like they think they are a law into themselves, flying along as if there is no tomorrow....and for one of these guys there is no tomorrow! It's not the first garbage truck that's been slammed into on Samui, and I predict it won't be the last.????

things will change, starting Sep 5th fines for not wearing a helmet will go from THB 500 to 2,000, that will bring the old bill out. Can't wait for the farangs to pop up on social media saying how unfair it is to be fined for not following the law. 

[racket]

 

 

[chalawaan]

22 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

This is an outstanding example of 'not putting your brain into gear before mouth (fingers) go into neutral’.... 

 

Watch the video and you’ll feel very silly.... 

 

 

 

 

Never mind the video, who puts a bike in that position to begin with? If the rider knew Thai drivers, and was sober, it should never have happened, he just would not have been there at point of impact, look at the time it happened too, with pillion storage full of booze, to even imagine they were not riding sozzled is a huge suspension of disbelief. 

Like I said, the B.Alc. forensics is just a formality. 

I'll never forget the sickening smell of booze blood and death coming off bodies at almost every "faytac" I ever attended. RIP to him. We've all done similar silly things and fate was far kinder to us.

[richard_smith237]

21 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

Never mind the video, who puts a bike in that position to begin with?

??? you mean who stays on the left of the road when turning left ????

 

21 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

If the rider knew Thai drivers, and was sober, it should never have happened, he just would not have been there at point of impact, look at the time it happened too, with pillion storage full of booze, to even imagine they were not riding sozzled is a huge suspension of disbelief. 

Like I said, the B.Alc. forensics is just a formality. 

The rest of your comment is just utterly preposterous - the truck cut the whole corner across to the other-side of the road where the motorcyclists were - drunk or not the position of their motorcycle was perfectly normal for a motorcycle turning left. 

 

It would be the same if they were stopped on a straight road and the truck crossed the centre line and drove other them.

 

Your comments read as if you are trying to blame the motorcyclists for simply being there.

 

29 minutes ago, chalawaan said:

I'll never forget the sickening smell of booze blood and death coming off bodies at almost every "faytac" I ever attended. RIP to him. We've all done similar silly things and fate was far kinder to us.

This is by no means a measure of whether these guys were drunk. 

Any motorcyclist sober or otherwise turning left at that point in time would have found themselves in the same position, on the left hand-side of the road, turning left. 

Only with 20/20 hindsight could it be predicted that the truck would cut the corner like that. 

 

 

 

 

[chalawaan]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

??? you mean who stays on the left of the road when turning left ????

 

The rest of your comment is just utterly preposterous - the truck cut the whole corner across to the other-side of the road where the motorcyclists were - drunk or not the position of their motorcycle was perfectly normal for a motorcycle turning left. 

 

It would be the same if they were stopped on a straight road and the truck crossed the centre line and drove other them.

 

Your comments read as if you are trying to blame the motorcyclists for simply being there.

 

This is by no means a measure of whether these guys were drunk. 

Any motorcyclist sober or otherwise turning left at that point in time would have found themselves in the same position, on the left hand-side of the road, turning left. 

Only with 20/20 hindsight could it be predicted that the truck would cut the corner like that. 

 

 

 

 

??? you mean who stays on the left of the road when turning left ????

 

The rest of your comment is just utterly preposterous - the truck cut the whole corner across to the other-side of the road where the motorcyclists were - drunk or not the position of their motorcycle was perfectly normal for a motorcycle turning left. 

 

It would be the same if they were stopped on a straight road and the truck crossed the centre line and drove other them.

 

Your comments read as if you are trying to blame the motorcyclists for simply being there.

 

This is by no means a measure of whether these guys were drunk. 

Any motorcyclist sober or otherwise turning left at that point in time would have found themselves in the same position, on the left hand-side of the road, turning left. 

Only with 20/20 hindsight could it be predicted that the truck would cut the corner like that. 

 

First  of all truck driver had his head up his behind. 

But, 1am. Deserted road, both turning RIGHT not left. , truck not speeding. 

You tell me how a sober rider would end up on the far right corner of T junction?

Was he trying to overtake non indicating truck to head straight??

Why stop there at all? No oncoming. 

But in Thailand who does that? Everyone undertake, esp at T junction. Other scenario, truck cut them up, but again l, sober rider have two options, stay put, or U turn the hell out of there, you can't tell me they didn't see the truck! At some point they passed it, or saw/heard it approach from behind.  ample time to give it a wide berth by moving away from it. 

Why were they stationary waiting to turn right at 1 am? Makes no sense! 

Edited September 4, 2022 by chalawaan

[Thunglom]

6 hours ago, racket said:

 

FullSizeRender.MOV 18.68 MB · 12 downloads  

 

If you watch the CCTV video, you are left with one question
Why is the bike there at all?

Incidentally, the video shows how unreliable and partial CCTV can be. To make an evidential judgement we need to see the road at least 200 metres BEFORE the vehicles are in shot.

What can you ACTUALLY see?
 There are mistakes made by the truck. It cuts the corner into the Prison road…..however anyone who has driven in Thailand at all will know that that is a very common way to drive in this country.
What you can’t see is where the motorcycle is. Before the truck turns the bike is not there – that would indicate the bike wasn’t coming out of the Prison road , but was running along the right hand side of the truck

When the bike appears and the tragedy happens it is on the right hand side of the road on the corner – it appears to have stopped.

The driver of the vehicle hasn’t seen them at this point and it is not until he hears a noise does he realise something has happened.

The video would suggest the bike was running along the RIGHT HAND IDE of the truck as it turns right – HOW ON EARTH DID IT GET THERE?
It’s on wrong side of the road?

Was the Truck undertaking it?
Or – more likely, were thy trying to pass the truck unaware it was turning right?
Take a look at the diagram above

Those trying to apportion blame as ever are clouding the issue – it would seem that both vehicles have me a series of mistakes that led to this crash.
I’ve said many times that in order to drive safely in Thailand a competent driver will adapt to the ways and mores of driving in this country. It isn’t a free-for-all there are conventions and Thai drivers are aware of these. You can’t drive according to the “rules at home”.

Maybe the surviving passenger will explain?
 

  

Edited September 4, 2022 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

drunk or not the position of their motorcycle was perfectly normal for a motorcycle turning left. 

Except it appears to be turning right?

[Thunglom]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Only with 20/20 hindsight could it be predicted that the truck would cut the corner like that. 

I'm guessing you haven't driven much in Thailand?

[racket]

1 hour ago, Thunglom said:

What you can’t see is where the motorcycle is. Before the truck turns the bike is not there – that would indicate the bike wasn’t coming out of the Prison road , but was running along the right hand side of the truck

Exactly what I thought as well. Apparently, if you look at the video again, you will notice that the lights of the motorbike is heading the same way the truck was heading. 

 

This implies that the bike was trying to overturn the truck and turn right before it, but unfortunately the truck caught it on the sides. 

 

I first thought the bike was coming in front of the truck, but that doesn't seem the case. One could agree that the truck could have stretched his vehicle more to the left side before turning in, thus giving space so that it doesn't completely block the road. 

 

In my opinion, if the bike wasn't overturning, the truck would most likely have noticed an incoming bike/car in front of it. But in this case, the bike was complicating it. 

[Thunglom]

45 minutes ago, racket said:

Exactly what I thought as well. Apparently, if you look at the video again, you will notice that the lights of the motorbike is heading the same way the truck was heading. 

 

This implies that the bike was trying to overturn the truck and turn right before it, but unfortunately the truck caught it on the sides. 

 

I first thought the bike was coming in front of the truck, but that doesn't seem the case. One could agree that the truck could have stretched his vehicle more to the left side before turning in, thus giving space so that it doesn't completely block the road. 

 

In my opinion, if the bike wasn't overturning, the truck would most likely have noticed an incoming bike/car in front of it. But in this case, the bike was complicating it. 

"if you look at the video again, you will notice that the lights of the motorbike is heading the same way the truck was heading. " - I don't see any evidence of the motorcycle lights at the beginning of the video - I DO see the truck had a flashing yellow light on the roof.

After the crash, it would appear the bike is pointed up the side road - probably dragged into that position by the rear of the truck

 

think there are 2 main possibility here

Firstly the bike was overtaking the truck whilst they were both turning right.

BUT

It is also possible that the bike was intending to go straight on and  whilst overtaking was "forced" to turn right as the truck turned right

 

On the video - there are no lights approaching the junction from Prison road before ht3 e truck turns - so it is pretty much certain the bike was turning or forced to turn right as it was tucked in beside the truck to of view of the camera - only a few metres before the junction. 

It would help if there was some more CCTV that recorded the vehicle before thy reached the junction. One assumes the bike was travelling behind the truck and tried to overtake

 

I'm beginning to wonder if some people looking at the video are from a "drive on the right" country and don't realise how strange the positioning of th motorbike was. They've gone pretty quite anyway.

 

PS if the truck was "forcing" the bike over it would not have =been possible for the bike to go on the verge as there are 2 twin-posted signs on the corner and a concrete power line pole.

 

 

 

PPS - "the bike was trying to overturn the truck" - I presume you mean "overtake"?

Edited September 4, 2022 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

PS - At the end of the video it looks as if the headlamp of the benighted m/c is still on and pointing up the road towards the prison.

[racket]

7 hours ago, Thunglom said:

PS - At the end of the video it looks as if the headlamp of the benighted m/c is still on and pointing up the road towards the prison.

That’s what I was saying…

[Eloquent pilgrim]

11 hours ago, Thunglom said:

If you watch the CCTV video, you are left with one question
Why is the bike there at all?

Incidentally, the video shows how unreliable and partial CCTV can be. To make an evidential judgement we need to see the road at least 200 metres BEFORE the vehicles are in shot.

What can you ACTUALLY see?
 There are mistakes made by the truck. It cuts the corner into the Prison road…..however anyone who has driven in Thailand at all will know that that is a very common way to drive in this country.
What you can’t see is where the motorcycle is. Before the truck turns the bike is not there – that would indicate the bike wasn’t coming out of the Prison road , but was running along the right hand side of the truck

When the bike appears and the tragedy happens it is on the right hand side of the road on the corner – it appears to have stopped.

The driver of the vehicle hasn’t seen them at this point and it is not until he hears a noise does he realise something has happened.

The video would suggest the bike was running along the RIGHT HAND IDE of the truck as it turns right – HOW ON EARTH DID IT GET THERE?
It’s on wrong side of the road?

Was the Truck undertaking it?
Or – more likely, were thy trying to pass the truck unaware it was turning right?
Take a look at the diagram above

Those trying to apportion blame as ever are clouding the issue – it would seem that both vehicles have me a series of mistakes that led to this crash.
I’ve said many times that in order to drive safely in Thailand a competent driver will adapt to the ways and mores of driving in this country. It isn’t a free-for-all there are conventions and Thai drivers are aware of these. You can’t drive according to the “rules at home”.

Maybe the surviving passenger will explain?
 

  

put the shovel down and stop using uppercase font 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

11 hours ago, Thunglom said:

I'm guessing you haven't driven much in Thailand?

And therein we see your biggest problem; you guess at everything 

[bananafish]

On 9/2/2022 at 10:14 PM, sambum said:

".............1 am carrying beers" Wrong - the beers were under the seat of the bike!

 

"...........they were drinking" Wrong, they were on a motor bike following a garbage truck!

 

OK - call me pedant if you must!

Not a pedant, your reply to my post is just utterly pointless. 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, bananafish said:

Not a pedant, your reply to my post is just utterly pointless. 

It's taken you 3 days to come up with that pearl of wisdom - OK you've been away for the weekend!

 

Just to recap:- "2 men on a motorbike at 1am carrying beers. I'd place my bets that they were drinking." 

 

My post was made to point out that your post was merely an assumption which was utterly pointless. You assumed that because they were in possession of drink at 1 am in the morning they had been drinking/were drunk, and were therefore the ones to blame for the accident. We now know that this was not the case,(CCTV) so if anybody's post was pointless, it was yours!

[animatic]

On 9/2/2022 at 10:33 AM, possum1931 said:

"Maybe what happened is you failed to indicate you were turning ,and this is why the

motorbike crashed into you."

That is probably what did happen, but I would also say that the motorbike was going far too fast especially as the garbage truck would be traveling very slow as it was making a turn.

If you do not assume a huge, well lit, orange, garbage truck, will not be going slow, stopping randomly and turning laboriously, you should not be driving near one, ever.

[animatic]

Seeing the video and knowing this corner well, the biker screwed up big time.

This is the road to the island dump, a small lane off the main ring-road. A 100% standard daily turn for this truck 365 nights a year.

if you look at the stained side road in daylight shot you see where the trucks make the right corner dripping disgusting wetness regularly.

Truck was properly in left lane, (we drive on left here), with signal on as video shows, for a right turn, and well lit from behind.

Bike Driver missed the signal.

The bike was screaming along. You don’t even see it approach, just a 3 frame blur till the crash is happening. So going very fast.

Likely driver didn’t know dump is there, and so expected truck to be stopping on left side for loading.
So, he tried to blast past the truck on right, but the opening closed fast, he tried to veer left, but didn’t make it at such high speed.

Sad but clear not trucks fault. 
RIP to the passenger.

Edited September 5, 2022 by animatic

[richard_smith237]

15 hours ago, Thunglom said:

think there are 2 main possibility here

Firstly the bike was overtaking the truck whilst they were both turning right.

BUT

It is also possible that the bike was intending to go straight on and  whilst overtaking was "forced" to turn right as the truck turned right

After watching the latest video I realise my initial observation from the initial video was flawed. 

It does infact appear that the motorcyclists were travelling in the same direction as the garbage truck, the rider making a huge error in judgment.

 

As the garbage truck turned right the motorcyclists were forced to ’turn right with the truck’ and became trapped at the corner.

 

In this case could ‘booze have been involved’ ??? - possibly which could be the reason for the flawed decision to position themselves next to the truck either to overtake while thinking the truck was going straight on, or to cut up the inside knowing the truck was turning right - either way, a deadly mistake.

 

Was this decision influenced by the lack of clarity caused by drink or just a simple poor decision that sometimes happens when on the road ?....   Booze under the seat is not evidence of or proof that the rider had been drinking.... but the time (1am) is perhaps an indicator - only a blood test / BAC test can clarify this. 

 

 

[Thunglom]

7 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

put the shovel down and stop using uppercase font 

You seem not actually to have any real comment to make.

If you disagree, why not put forward a coherent opinion rather than snide ad homs?

[Thunglom]

8 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

And therein we see your biggest problem; you guess at everything 

They are hypotheses - as said - in your case it's based on the evidence in your posts. BTW - I have driven EXTENSIVELY in Thailand and several times up that particular junction.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Thunglom

[Thunglom]

On 9/4/2022 at 1:49 AM, huberthammer said:

There's CCTV footage of the incident. It will tell the story.

Sorry but that is just blind faith....Video science is unreliable and incomplete...... it needs and intelligent and analytical approach.

It has become apparent that there is plem=nty in the available video that is open to interpretation and it leaves out a lot - especially the last 500 m leading up to the crash

[Thunglom]

On 9/2/2022 at 4:09 AM, canerandagio said:

Whilst I appreciate the do good attitude, I need to let this out.

So you condone bicycles because they are a bit of excercise but warn against the use of motorbikes.

Seems like an arbitrary way of warning. Bicycles can be as dangerous, and are a way of life, just like motorbikes.

You crashed after 3 minutes on a bike and got scared, which is understandable. I drove hundreds of thousands of miles in 40 years, many in Thailand and never any issue.

Motorbikes are as avoidable as bikes. Many things we do are avoidable and not doing them reduce risk, but we do them anyway and accept the risk.

Sure, driving without experience or under the influence is wrong, and equally surely even 100 years experience doesn't immunise anyone, but hearing an emotional well wishing rant from someone without any motorbike experience is a bit hard for some.

I've driven bkes since I was 7 years old. I've driven on several continents. For 15 years in Thailand I owned various bikes. When I moved to Samui I had to use a bike  whilst my truck was in for repair. Of all the roads in Thailand I'd driven the roads on Samui are by far the worst.

73% of all deaths in Thailand are 2-wheelers. This figure is pretty reliable. However Samui has a particularly lethal combination of poor roads and inexperienced foreign drivers.

No stats are available for the deaths on the island or the percentage of foreigners involved. Furthermore there is no breakdown into the three Internationally recognised categories of injuries minor and major and deaths.

"We accept the risk" - this is a flawed attitude as when someone is injured or dies, it isn't just them that feels the repercussions - there are family and friends, loss of earnings, increased insurance premiums extra workload on hospitals and damage to other third parties. When you say "we" in fact iy has to mn "us" as in the general public.

 

[chalawaan]

While the Truck driver was "lazy" at best, if not impaired himself, there's no way in my mind I can make this tragedy happen if presumably, the rider was sober and a licensed rider. 

If sober:

1. He must have passed, seen, and been aware of the truck and it's position at all times, that's how sober riders stay alive! 

2. Who stops at a turn at 1am with no oncoming traffic?

3. Who with any roadcraft experience in Thailand, overtakes a truck on the right approaching a T junction on the same side?

The best solution would be to carefully manouvre slightly behind it on the left. Even if turning right!

 

[chalawaan]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:51 PM, chalawaan said:

 

First  of all truck driver had his head up his behind. 

But, 1am. Deserted road, both turning RIGHT not left. , truck not speeding. 

You tell me how a sober rider would end up on the far right corner of T junction?

Was he trying to overtake non indicating truck to head straight??

Why stop there at all? No oncoming. 

But in Thailand who does that? Everyone undertake, esp at T junction. Other scenario, truck cut them up, but again l, sober rider have two options, stay put, or U turn the hell out of there, you can't tell me they didn't see the truck! At some point they passed it, or saw/heard it approach from behind.  ample time to give it a wide berth by moving away from it. 

Why were they stationary waiting to turn right at 1 am? Makes no sense! 

[bananafish]

13 hours ago, sambum said:

It's taken you 3 days to come up with that pearl of wisdom - OK you've been away for the weekend!

 

Just to recap:- "2 men on a motorbike at 1am carrying beers. I'd place my bets that they were drinking." 

 

My post was made to point out that your post was merely an assumption which was utterly pointless. You assumed that because they were in possession of drink at 1 am in the morning they had been drinking/were drunk, and were therefore the ones to blame for the accident. We now know that this was not the case,(CCTV) so if anybody's post was pointless, it was yours!

You talk more garbage than was onboard the truck. From the video I watched, it looks like the bike came from behind the truck, and tried to overtake it on the right, as it was turning right. So I would hardly say the rider is blameless, his driving seems wreckless, and my guess is that was because he was drinking.