Getting Directions in Chiang Mai

[FolkGuitar]

How many times have you asked for directions to a place or an item in a large shop, only to be given something like; 'over that way,'  or worse, a brief wave in the general direction of your target.  I read real estate adverts that say 'close to Maya and the Old City' when actually it's on the Canal Road nearer to Hang Dong!  Someone says 'right across from Panthip Plaza, yet the shop is actually two blocks further north.  The 'south side of the moat' is actually two kilometers long. The asked-about place may be right on the S.E corner of Wualai Rd, with a big red sign and a waving air figure in front, but people will still just wave and tell you ' it's on the south side of the moat.'

In the USA, we often get rural directions such as 'Turn left where Ariel Fisk's barn used to be before it burned down 15 years ago.' 

Here, it's an offhand flutter in the general direction. Same problem. Thanks to the Gods for Google Map.

[MrBrad]

I, too, don't understand the "help" that is given in a retail setting.  When asking an employee where anything is, you'll usually get an extended arm pointing more-or-less in the general direction of the item in question. How about telling us the aisle number and if the item is on the right or left? 

 

And while I'm ranting, why don't shopping malls have (more) floor plans posted showing the locations of various merchants and other features?  Looking for an ATM or even a toilet can involve touring the whole complex at times.  At least that's the result for those of us who seldom visit particular malls. It takes a number of regular visits for the customer to learn the layout of the shopping center.

[cnx1204]

Are you asking them in Thai or English?

[Dante99]

33 minutes ago, MrBrad said:

I, too, don't understand the "help" that is given in a retail setting.  When asking an employee where anything is, you'll usually get an extended arm pointing more-or-less in the general direction of the item in question.

I often get taken right to what I ask for, if they do not start to take me there I ask again for help and most often get it.  Sometimes it is simply an issue of the first person I ask really does not know but by asking again they find somebody who does and they walk me to it.  But it does help to speak some Thai, if all you do is walk in and say the name of the thing you want some may not be too inclined to respond or know how to respond.  How do they respond to somebody that says only "plastic pipe" or "underwear" or "tape"?

[EricTh]

@FolkGuitar

 

Their English is very limited so they will say very short sentences - there, Maya, Nimman etc. 

 

Don't expect them to give detailed road directions like native English speakers.

 

Even if you can speak some Thai, most foreigners won't be able to understand their Thai if they were to give detailed road directions. I once spoke to them in Thai but got some confusing answer when they rambled in Thai.

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, MrBrad said:

I, too, don't understand the "help" that is given in a retail setting.  When asking an employee where anything is, you'll usually get an extended arm pointing more-or-less in the general direction of the item in question. How about telling us the aisle number and if the item is on the right or left?

 

 

When an shop employee does that, I smile and say thank you (in Thai) and then also in Thai say, "Please show me."  I usually feel badly that I interrupted their Instagram posting or chatting with other employees, but I don't let that stop me.  ????

 

When asking directions in the street, obviously that won't work, although in Japan, whenever I asked directions, either when walking or on the train, most often the person would go out of their way to take me to my destination and then return towards theirs.  That has happened to me on occasion here in Thailand.

 

 

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

@FolkGuitar

 

Their English is very limited so they will say very short sentences - there, Maya, Nimman etc.

Don't expect them to give detailed road directions like native English speakers.

 

 

Thank you, EricTh. After 20+ years living in Chiang Mai, I too have found that to be the case, which is why I use short sentences in Thai.

That said, I don't hold much hope for the directions native English speakers give either, if the posts on ThaiVisa are to be considered.  Unless they post a map-linked reference, their directions are often impossible to follow.

[Sparktrader]

Thais are creative not rationale. They cant read maps.

[MrBrad]

2 hours ago, cnx1204 said:

Are you asking them in Thai or English?

If this is directed to me, I speak Thai quite well, and when addressing store staff, I inquire in Thai.

[Bill97]

6 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

They cant read maps.

Absurd.  Racist?

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, Bill97 said:

Absurd.  Racist?

True. Nothing to do with race. Playing the race card is the lowest response.

 

Ive know Thais for 20 years. They arent good at it. Many Thais dont know Aus/NZ arent in Europe.

 

The education system doesnt focus on the outside world or geography. The western education system does.

 

I had to give directions to Thais in CM who have been there 20 times, me 3 times.

[MrBrad]

10 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Thais are creative not rationale. They cant read maps.

They're getting better at reading maps, I think, in part thanks to Google maps and other internet sites.  It used to be much worse; they often preferred to turn maps upside down or sideways to somewhat sort of orient themselves, though in reality, that didn't help much.

[Sparktrader]

Just now, MrBrad said:

They're getting better at reading maps, I think, in part thanks to Google maps and other internet sites.  It used to be much worse; they often preferred to turn maps upside down or sideways to somewhat sort of orient themselves, though in reality, that didn't help much.

Many women arent good at reading maps. People say its sexist but really some people are just better at certain things. Proven fact women multi task better than men.

 

Some people are too caught up in pc nonsense to recognise the reality.

[Sparktrader]

Men are better at map-reading than women because their sense of direction evolved to help them sow their wild oats, academic research found. Scientists say men may have wanted to breed with women in different regions to spread their genes further afield, to reduce inbreeding or simply because their culture allowed it

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/11228958/Sex-The-real-reason-men-are-better-at-reading-maps.html#:~:text=Men are better at map,because their culture allowed it.

 

[Maybole]

If geography is taught in Thai schools it is very rudimentary and fails to instal a sense of direction. Also many Thais are afraid to lose face by admitting "I don't know" and will give vague or even incorrect information to avoid it.

[novacova]

12 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

True. Nothing to do with race.

Unless of course you’re a left field batter from the US, then everything is racist…which is racism in of itself 

[soi3eddie]

Never rely on anyone (Thai or otherwise) for directions. Google maps and advance research (streetview) is the key. Never have any problems with that and I often find some hidden gems of places by looking at maps.

 

[AsianAtHeart]

The problem with getting directions in Thailand has little to do with language and very much to do with culture. 

 

A Thai would lose face to give a negative response, seen as unhelpful, to a respected foreigner.  Loss of face is generally avoided at all costs within Thai society.  So, instead of saying to the questioner "I'm sorry, I don't know," the questioner is much more likely to hear something like "Go down this street to the second light, turn left, and you should see it on your right as you go down that street."  In this way, the respondent has preserved face, neither admitting ignorance nor having been "unhelpful," and you leave thanking him or her, both of you with smiles.  Quite frankly, you will probably never meet again anyway--and the directions given will see you at quite a distance by the time you discover you've been sent on a wild goose chase.

 

It is a very rare Thai who seems capable of admitting that he or she does not know--please ask someone else.  The best policy is to ask at least three different people--not within earshot of each other, of course--and see if at least two of them agree.  Unless you have some consensus, you're likely destined for the goose chase.

[Sparktrader]

6 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

The problem with getting directions in Thailand has little to do with language and very much to do with culture. 

 

A Thai would lose face to give a negative response, seen as unhelpful, to a respected foreigner.  Loss of face is generally avoided at all costs within Thai society.  So, instead of saying to the questioner "I'm sorry, I don't know," the questioner is much more likely to hear something like "Go down this street to the second light, turn left, and you should see it on your right as you go down that street."  In this way, the respondent has preserved face, neither admitting ignorance nor having been "unhelpful," and you leave thanking him or her, both of you with smiles.  Quite frankly, you will probably never meet again anyway--and the directions given will see you at quite a distance by the time you discover you've been sent on a wild goose chase.

 

It is a very rare Thai who seems capable of admitting that he or she does not know--please ask someone else.  The best policy is to ask at least three different people--not within earshot of each other, of course--and see if at least two of them agree.  Unless you have some consensus, you're likely destined for the goose chase.

Not really true. Lose of face is mostly bs. Last night asked for directions, told dont know.

[Mark1066]

On 9/12/2022 at 11:35 AM, Sparktrader said:

True. Nothing to do with race. Playing the race card is the lowest response.

 

Ive know Thais for 20 years. They arent good at it. Many Thais dont know Aus/NZ arent in Europe.

 

The education system doesnt focus on the outside world or geography. The western education system does.

 

I had to give directions to Thais in CM who have been there 20 times, me 3 times.

Stating that an entire race of people can’t read maps isn’t racist? I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word - generalising by race is exactly what racism is. If I announced that black people cant do maths and then claimed I wasn’t being racist, I wonder how many people would give me a free pass on that?

 

Also, if Western education truly focuses on the outside word more than Thai education, why are so many Americans incapable of pointing out where various extremely well-known countries are on an atlas?

[1FinickyOne]

On 9/11/2022 at 11:02 AM, FolkGuitar said:

In the USA, we often get rural directions such as 'Turn left where Ariel Fisk's barn used to be before it burned down 15 years ago.' 

I lived rural USA and I did actually get directions exactly like that... 

 

Another issue here is that about 50% of the people will answer "yes" just to be polite... 

[1FinickyOne]

On 9/13/2022 at 7:51 AM, Sparktrader said:

Last night asked for directions, told dont know.

They probably looked at the size 13 clown shoes and figured you wouldn't get it anyway... 

[1FinickyOne]

On 9/13/2022 at 1:21 AM, AsianAtHeart said:

"Go down this street to the second light, turn left, and you should see it on your right as you go down that street."

In rural Thailand most directions are for the next street - one street at a time. 

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, Mark1066 said:

Stating that an entire race of people can’t read maps isn’t racist? I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word - generalising by race is exactly what racism is. If I announced that black people cant do maths and then claimed I wasn’t being racist, I wonder how many people would give me a free pass on that?

 

Also, if Western education truly focuses on the outside word more than Thai education, why are so many Americans incapable of pointing out where various extremely well-known countries are on an atlas?

No it isnt. Not even close. Racism is hating someone due to race. Saying black people are better at basketball due to athletic ability doesnt mean I hate white people. It also doesnt mean all white people are bad at it.

 

The American system of education isnt as good as the European ones in geography. 

 

The education system isnt a race.

 

Playing the race card says more about you than anyone else.

 

Using incorrect isms is really common these days. A sad reflection of priorities.

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

They probably looked at the size 13 clown shoes and figured you wouldn't get it anyway... 

No. Wrong size. They didnt know. The restaurant was 80m away. Just didnt know, didnt care. Maybe they rarely eat out.

[Mark1066]

40 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

No it isnt. Not even close. Racism is hating someone due to race. Saying black people are better at basketball due to athletic ability doesnt mean I hate white people. It also doesnt mean all white people are bad at it.

 

The American system of education isnt as good as the European ones in geography. 

 

The education system isnt a race.

 

Playing the race card says more about you than anyone else.

 

Using incorrect isms is really common these days. A sad reflection of priorities.

What really speaks volumes about you is your misuse and misunderstanding of your native language, along with the fact that you resort to personal attacks when you are called out on your lack of education - a sad reflection on your own priorities I guess. Here's (the salient part of) a dictionary definition:

 

"the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another."

 

In this case, you believe a whole race of people have inferior map reading skills.

 

Is that clear enough for you?

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, Mark1066 said:

What really speaks volumes about you is your misuse and misunderstanding of your native language, along with the fact that you resort to personal attacks when you are called out on your lack of education - a sad reflection on your own priorities I guess. Here's (the salient part of) a dictionary definition:

 

"the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another."

 

In this case, you believe a whole race of people have inferior map reading skills.

 

Is that clear enough for you?

No I dont.  There is no 1 Thai race (clearly you don't know this) and 2 it is about education not race.

 

Better luck next time.

[Sparktrader]

http://sclthailand.org/2011/08/why-thais-dont-read-books/

 

 

[Sparktrader]

 

 

Old topic on map reading. Nothing new.

[Mark1066]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:10 PM, Sparktrader said:

No I dont.  There is no 1 Thai race (clearly you don't know this) and 2 it is about education not race.

 

Better luck next time.

It's really pointless to engage in an argument with someone who's so juvenile. There may be more than one race here (obviously) but it's a far more homogenous society than wherever you came from. It's offensive to claim that all Thais can't read maps - you can argue that it's not until you're blue in the face but that doesn't change the facts.

 

Your comment on education may have some merit but if the education system in the West is so superior, why are so many of the expats I meet here just a step away from poverty? You'd think they'd have made more of a success of things with the fantastic education they received.