Retirement v Marriage Visa

[Kevin1908]

I am in Thailand at the moment as a visa exempt tourist but looking at options to stay longer. I was hoping a visit to the Immigration Office might make it easier to understand but I am more confused than before.

I gather a retirement visa is a lot easier to get than the marriage visa but the marriage visa has a lower income requirement. I don't want to cash in my private pension or savings due to the low value now.

I am confused by the marriage visa. This is how it was explained at the Immigration office. I have to deposit at least 400,000 baht 2 months before applying into a Thai bank account (about £10,000). In addition I have to have of at least 45,000 baht certified income per annum (the form says 40,000). In addition I need to deposit 20,000 baht per month or 240,000 baht per year. I don't understand why I have to meet all three requirments. Any one of the three I could meet but do I have to deposit 400,000 baht and have an income of at least 45000 baht and deposit 20000 baht per month? The form doesn't mention the 20000 baht per month but the Immigration officer mentioned it. The application then takes at least a month. The form in Thai has 12 points but the English translation has only 11. Point 12 says something in Thai and the figure 1900.

My wife is expecting me at some point to live in Thailand but at the moment I just don't see it happening as it its seems so complicated. Many people do retire in Thailand so what am I missing?

[ubonjoe]

You need 400k baht or proof of 40k baht income. You only need one of the 2.

Not sure where they 20k baht you mentioned came from or what form you are looking at.

You only need a competed TM7 extension application form to apply. Fillable TM7 form.pdf

There are a couple of other forms for the overstay rules and the conditions of a permit to stay.

The fees for a extension of stay application is 1900 baht.

Here is my general list of required documents and etc. Marriage Extension Requirements 2.pdf

 

[Kevin1908]

"

You need 400k baht or proof of 40k baht income. You only need one of the 2.

Not sure where they 20k baht you mentioned came from or what form you are looking at."

It isn't a form it is an information sheet. The sheet says 40000 baht but the Immigration said it was 45000. I didn't think that the British Embassy authenticated income statements so how do you get around that one? The Immigration Officer mentioned the depositing of 20000 baht per moth or 240,000 baht over year. It is not on the sheet.

Do I have to provide Children's birth certificates, they are 25 and 23? Wife's children or my children?

[steve187]

you were misinformed at the immigration office, it's not complicated for a 'married to Thai national' yearly extension, money is 400,000 in the bank account in your name only for 2 months prior to the application TM7, cost 1,900thb

 

 you will need a non-immigrant visa to apply for the yearly extension, visa exempt can be converted within Thailand cost 2,000thb

 

if you were married in Thailand, there is less jumping through hoops than if you were married outside Thailand

 

a 'retirement' yearly extension is easier but the money is tied up in your bank, 800,000thb for 6 months dropping to 4000thb for the remainder of the year, topped back up to 800,000thb 2 month prior to date of application for the subsequent yearly extension.

 

[Kevin1908]

Right hold on, I have deposit 400,000 baht every year??????? Am I understanding you correctly. I wish I had a spare £20,000 that I could just deposit to sit in a Thai banhk account then pay 45000 baht per month plus this mythical 20000 baht a month that Immigration referred to.

You mention the 800,000 dropping to 400,000 for the rest of the year in the mean time I have paid 12 x 45000 baht plus or is it instead of, God knows, 20,000 baht a month??????

This is what Immigration is telling me. How am I to know that if I catually go through with this that they wont expect what they told me. In the mean time I am having to placate my wife who thinks that this is all so easy. But then huge amounts of money to a Thai is always easy.

[DrJoy]

53 minutes ago, Kevin1908 said:

Right hold on, I have deposit 400,000 baht every year??????? Am I understanding you correctly.

Correct.

 

Rule -

 

In the case of having money in the bank account (Fix/ Saving Deposit) of any bank located in Thailand

– Letter from the bank certified the account in the bank of not less than 400,000 baht

– Copy of bank book showing money in the account of not less than 400,000 baht which has been deposit and already held of such amount for the past 2 months until the date of application submission

[Kevin1908]

So what Immigration is telling me is that on an annual basis I have to deposit:

400,000 baht

12x45,000 baht= 540,000 baht

12x20,000 baht=240,000 baht

Total 1,180,000 baht (£28,780 currenetly)

Notes from Immigration attached.

[proton]

3 minutes ago, Kevin1908 said:

So what Immigration is telling me is that on an annual basis I have to deposit:

400,000 baht

12x45,000 baht= 540,000 baht

12x20,000 baht=240,000 baht

Total 1,180,000 baht (£28,780 currenetly)

Notes from Immigration attached.

where does it mention 20k baht or 45K?

[Kevin1908]

I was lead to believe that the marriage route was easier and cheaper but retiremener is 12x65000=780,000 baht (£19,000) currently. Nearly £10,000 cheaper than the marriage route and a whole lot more straight forward.

[Lemsta69]

4 minutes ago, Kevin1908 said:

I was lead to believe that the marriage route was easier and cheaper but retiremener is 12x65000=780,000 baht (£19,000) currently. Nearly £10,000 cheaper than the marriage route and a whole lot more straight forward.

ubonjoe gave you the correct answer. he's the AN visa 'guru' so for can trust what he told you. 

 

it's 400k in the bank (permanently) OR 40k per month income. 

 

plus all the paperwork like map to house blah blah blah.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Lemsta69

[Kevin1908]

"where does it mention 20k baht or 45K? " did you look at the scribblings at the bottom. The Immigration officer said 45,000 baht despite the form saying 40,000. I assumed it was an out of date form. She then went on to mention 20,000 baht per month to be deposited or 240,000 per annum. No where on the form does it say that but she brought it up hence my question.

[Kevin1908]

"it's 400k in the bank (permanently) OR 40k per month income.  "

Ok that makes sense. I still don't see where this 20,000 per month comes into it. At the end of the day it is the Immigration Officer that I have to satisfy.

400,000 permanently plus 20,000 per month might make sense otherwise what are you living on.

Still don't understand why she said 45,000.

[Lemsta69]

9 minutes ago, Kevin1908 said:

"it's 400k in the bank (permanently) OR 40k per month income.  "

Ok that makes sense. I still don't see where this 20,000 per month comes into it. At the end of the day it is the Immigration Officer that I have to satisfy.

400,000 permanently plus 20,000 per month might make sense otherwise what are you living on.

Still don't understand why she said 45,000.

what office is this? maybe it's one of those rogue places we keep reading about that make up their own rules. 

 

ps. from reading this forum the consensus is that Retirement extensions are easier then Marriage but more expensive. Marriage is cheaper but requires a lot more paperwork and allegedly some offices don't like to do them because of the extra work. 

[Lemsta69]

re the B40k per month income option you are correct, the British Embassy no longer provides certification. I'm sorry but I can't remember what you have to do for your first marriage extension if you want to use this method. I'm sure @ubonjoewill help you out when he starts his shift tomorrow morning.

[Kevin1908]

Well I thought I was in the Surat Thani Immigration Office. It looked very official. The marriage was in Thailand if that makes it easier.

[Lite Beer]

Quite easy to understand and do.

400,000 in the bank OR 40,000 monthly income.

Easiest way is to put the 400,000 in the bank and forget about it

You can then extend your permision to stay every year.

[walt1]

What you will need to do is get a visiting family 60-day extension to give you time to season your 400,000 deposit. It needs to be in the bank 60 days before and to be safe 30 days after application until you receive 1 year stamp. My office likes this method over the monthly transfer. It is much less hassle to do a regular ext. but you need 65,000/month or 800,000 deposit.

[Lemsta69]

4 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

Quite easy to understand and do.

400,000 in the bank OR 40,000 monthly income.

Easiest way is to put the 400,000 in the bank and forget about it

You can then extend your permision to stay every year.

what if you don't have a spare B400k?

[DrJack54]

10 hours ago, Kevin1908 said:

I don't want to cash in my private pension or savings due to the low value now.

Well that simple statement sums it up.

As you are already in Thailand you have few options to extend your stay.

You can obtain a 30 day extension to your visa exempt entry.

You can also obtain a 60 day extension "to visit Thai wife".

You can also do a border bounce to obtain a visa exempt entry 45 days.

That can be extended by 30 days. 

 

The rest of your post is just random confusion.

 

In the future you can obtain a non O marriage and annual extensions.

That can be done from a visa exempt or tourist visa entry.

 

The most straight forward option is money in the bank.

In simple terms that requires 400k to be in the bank for 2 months plus approx 1 month under consideration period, so all up approx 3 months per year.

That money can then be used. Simple easy requirements. 

Your first step this trip would be to open a bank account in your name. 

 

[arithai12]

10 hours ago, Kevin1908 said:

I gather a retirement visa is a lot easier to get than the marriage visa but the marriage visa has a lower income requirement. I don't want to cash in my private pension or savings due to the low value now.

The first statement is correct - though "a lot" is subjective. There is one additional difference, which is probably not relevant to you: with "marriage" you can in principle work legally in Thailand, subject to obtaining a work permit. With "retirement", you are barred from doing so.

Your notes and quotations from Imm do not make much sense. Perhaps you should go there with your wife to avoid being lost in translation? Anyway, the long and short of it is that with marriage you need to deposit (one time only, and keep it) 400k, with retirement 800k.

There are ways to use part of this deposit and replenish it at various phases during each year between extensions, but if you can just deposit and forget it would be the simplest.

There are also alternatives, like transferring some amount each month. Careful, as this needs to be properly documented to satisfy Imm. One-time deposit OR monthly transfers, not both.

 

If "marriage", make sure you are legally married in Thailand. Some people think they are married after some ceremony in a village temple, which is not sufficient.

 

About your second statement "...low value now" : Low compared to what? GBP to Baht is currently about 42, stable in the last month. It has been on average 43 in the past year as well as in the past 5 years. Don't  hold your breath waiting for it to reach 60 or higher as many years ago.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, Kevin1908 said:

Right hold on, I have deposit 400,000 baht every year??????? Am I understanding you correctly. I wish I had a spare £20,000 that I could just deposit to sit in a Thai banhk account then pay 45000 baht per month plus this mythical 20000 baht a month that Immigration referred to.

You don't have to have 45,000 baht a month. That is just the wrong number if using the income option. You must have 12 months of of at least 40k baht to apply unless you can get proof income from you embassy.

You can put 400k baht in the bank for 2 months to apply for the extension of stay and leave there as long as you want to or  take out of the bank after your extension is approved.

There is no 20k baht requirement for any thing you do at immigration.l

 

11 hours ago, Kevin1908 said:

You mention the 800,000 dropping to 400,000 for the rest of the year in the mean time I have paid 12 x 45000 baht plus or is it instead of, God knows, 20,000 baht a month??????

That is for amount needed in the bank for a extension based upon retirement.

[cdnhawk]

Only in Thailand does someone go to a government office for information and come out more misinformed than when he went in.

Edited October 3, 2022 by cdnhawk

[Kevin1908]

"Perhaps you should go there with your wife to avoid being lost in translation? "

I had my wife with me. And bt Thai standards the Immigration Officer spoke pretty good English.

 

"About your second statement "...low value now" : Low compared to what?"

Thinking in terms of the low pension pot and investment post values rather than the pound. They are well down so don't want to turn those into a revenue generating scheme right now.

[Liquorice]

@Kevin1908

Firstly, you state you entered Visa exempt (without a Visa).

To apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on either retirement or Thai spouse, you must have Non Immigrant status (Non Imm O Visa).
Your first objective is to change your Tourist status to Non Immigrant status, before you can apply for a 1-year extension of stay.
Secondly, you need to decide if you want to apply for both the Non Imm O and 1 year extension based on either retirement or Thai spouse.

 

Reading between the lines, the Immigration officer has been giving you too much forward information regarding all the financial options available for extensions based on both retirement and Thai spouse, which has obviously caused your confusion.

 

One step at a time.
Because you entered Visa exempt as a Tourist, you need to first apply for a change of status and apply for the Non Imm O Visa at your Immigration office. What date did you enter Thailand, and when does your current permission of stay end?
 

[Liquorice]

There are some differences in documentation, but especially financial requirements, applying for either the Non Imm O Visa and then applying for 1 year extensions of stay.

 

[hotchilli]

13 hours ago, Kevin1908 said:

"it's 400k in the bank (permanently) OR 40k per month income.  "

Ok that makes sense. I still don't see where this 20,000 per month comes into it. At the end of the day it is the Immigration Officer that I have to satisfy.

400,000 permanently plus 20,000 per month might make sense otherwise what are you living on.

Still don't understand why she said 45,000.

Marriage Visa you  need 400,000 in a savings account [2 months prior to application] 

OR 40,000 baht per month income. NOT BOTH

You can have a work permit and work
Retirement Visa you need 800,000 baht in a savings account or 65,000 baht income per month. NO work permit CANNOT WORK

That's it.

Paperwork is slightly different for each visa.

Decide which is best for you.

 

[Kevin1908]

I entered on the 16th Sept and due to leave on the 15th Oct. I have a return flight. I wasn't looking to do this this trip. I was using this as a fact finding exercise for future reference. I guessing in the future I will either need to enter on an open ticket. Expensive and not sure if Immigration even accept that as POOT or have a single ticket and cheap throw away POOT and get extension.

[bobinisaan]

My local immigration officer has assured me that if i don't have 400,000 the problem can be resolved with a 20,000 sweetener.

[Liquorice]

11 minutes ago, Kevin1908 said:

I entered on the 16th Sept and due to leave on the 15th Oct. I have a return flight. I wasn't looking to do this this trip. I was using this as a fact finding exercise for future reference. I guessing in the future I will either need to enter on an open ticket. Expensive and not sure if Immigration even accept that as POOT or have a single ticket and cheap throw away POOT and get extension.

You can apply for a 60-day extension of stay to visit your Thai spouse if you so wish.

 

Looking forward, if/when you return to the UK, and the time is right for you to return permanently, you can apply for the Non Imm O Visa from the Thai Embassy London to enter Thailand.

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, Kevin1908 said:

I guessing in the future I will either need to enter on an open ticket. Expensive and not sure if Immigration even accept that as POOT or have a single ticket and cheap throw away POOT and get extension.

I assume next time you would be applying for a non O retirement or marriage.

If your plan is to enter visa exempt then it's the airline that may require the onward flight.

As you mentioned, this can be a throw away ticket or you can "rent a flight".

If entering visa exempt or with tourist visa you need to open bank account asap.

The reason being that you require 15+ days remaining on your permission of stay.

 

Non O marriage and subsequent extensions have easy financials and the benefit that the funds can be used after extention final stamp.