PSA value of 11, but I have a UTI.

[simon43]

  On 3/26/2023 at 6:45 AM, Sheryl said:

There are no "good" bladder bacteria, bladder is a sterile organ.

 

Some UTIs are asymptomatic.

 

Drinking cranberry juice can be helpful, and presumably they have given you antibiotics.

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Yes, my comment about 'good' bladder bacteria was tongue-in-cheek ????

 

I have yet another kind of antibiotic and indeed, I drink a lot of cranberry juice.  So all is going well...

[simon43]

Update (6th April):

 

Wow!  The doctor at Blackpool Hospital has just called me, about 2 weeks after he performed the prostate biopsy and took 25 samples from my prostate, particularly in the regions where the MRI indicated something 'going on', (and a DRE by him and the Bumrungrad Hospital specialist could just about feel a small lump inside my prostate).

 

I say 'wow' because all 25 biopsy samples have come back negative for cancer ????  There is absolutely no evidence of any cancer cells in my prostate. To say that I am gobsmacked (and very relieved) is an understatement.....

 

What the samples did show was 'irritatation', which is no surprise because test after test since last October have indicated a UTI that doesn't clear up with the antibiotics that I've been prescribed over the past 6 months.

 

Clearly, there is 'something' going on, since the MRI scan shows 2 small growths etc, and the doc said they will now have to investigate further to see what is going on, probably with a massive camera rammed up my John Thomas to see if my bladder has some form of chronic UTI....  

 

I think I might buy myself a nice Easter egg this weekend!

[Adumbration]

Fantastic news Simon.  Very glad to hear that is not cancer.

 

Keep us updated.

[simon43]

  On 4/6/2023 at 5:51 PM, Adumbration said:

Fantastic news Simon.  Very glad to hear that is not cancer.

 

Keep us updated.

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Thanks.  Just to add that this wasn't a random 12-core biopsy.  There were 12 cores taken randomly and the others were targeted by ultrasound at the regions where the very detailed MRI scan indicated growths inside my prostate.  Whatever those growths are, they are not cancer growths.

[riclag]

  On 4/6/2023 at 4:47 PM, simon43 said:

Update (6th April):

 

Wow!  The doctor at Blackpool Hospital has just called me, about 2 weeks after he performed the prostate biopsy and took 25 samples from my prostate, particularly in the regions where the MRI indicated something 'going on', (and a DRE by him and the Bumrungrad Hospital specialist could just about feel a small lump inside my prostate).

 

I say 'wow' because all 25 biopsy samples have come back negative for cancer ????  There is absolutely no evidence of any cancer cells in my prostate. To say that I am gobsmacked (and very relieved) is an understatement.....

 

What the samples did show was 'irritatation', which is no surprise because test after test since last October have indicated a UTI that doesn't clear up with the antibiotics that I've been prescribed over the past 6 months.

 

Clearly, there is 'something' going on, since the MRI scan shows 2 small growths etc, and the doc said they will now have to investigate further to see what is going on, probably with a massive camera rammed up my John Thomas to see if my bladder has some form of chronic UTI....  

 

I think I might buy myself a nice Easter egg this weekend!

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Neg results,Im happy for you Simon!

 

[lopburi3]

  On 4/6/2023 at 4:47 PM, simon43 said:

probably with a massive camera rammed up my John Thomas to see if my bladder has some form of chronic UTI...

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As long as done by experienced doctor it should not be much pain (but if have to fill bladder you will know it).  If done by an intern, as a Thai government hospital did on me, it can be extremally painful.  But if no cancer or get advance warning well worth the short term pain.  At any rate things are sounding a lot better.  Good luck.

[IvorBiggun2]

  On 4/7/2023 at 1:41 AM, lopburi3 said:

If done by an intern, as a Thai government hospital did on me, it can be extremally painful. 

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Dunno if mine was done by an intern but it has to be one of the most excruciating pains I've ever had to endure.

[xylophone]

  On 4/6/2023 at 4:47 PM, simon43 said:

Update (6th April):

 

Wow!  The doctor at Blackpool Hospital has just called me, about 2 weeks after he performed the prostate biopsy and took 25 samples from my prostate, particularly in the regions where the MRI indicated something 'going on', (and a DRE by him and the Bumrungrad Hospital specialist could just about feel a small lump inside my prostate).

 

I say 'wow' because all 25 biopsy samples have come back negative for cancer ????  There is absolutely no evidence of any cancer cells in my prostate. To say that I am gobsmacked (and very relieved) is an understatement.....

 

What the samples did show was 'irritatation', which is no surprise because test after test since last October have indicated a UTI that doesn't clear up with the antibiotics that I've been prescribed over the past 6 months.

 

Clearly, there is 'something' going on, since the MRI scan shows 2 small growths etc, and the doc said they will now have to investigate further to see what is going on, probably with a massive camera rammed up my John Thomas to see if my bladder has some form of chronic UTI....  

 

I think I might buy myself a nice Easter egg this weekend!

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That is great news Simon and so pleased to hear it.

 

Interesting that, "something is going on since the MRI scan shows two small growths" and it reminds me of something which I encountered after years of prostatitis symptoms and also years of antibiotics for a recurrent "UTI" (which may or may not have been one) because when I had my TURP, the specialist told me that there was some calcification (very small calcified "stones") in the prostate which could well have been causing me the problems!

 

Never heard of that before, but it was too late to do anything about it then, and the more research I did on the prostate and infections therein did uncover the fact that there could be an infection in the prostate which was protected by a biofilm, and the fact that this biofilm is very difficult to penetrate, as is the prostate barrier, makes some infections very difficult to treat. Also calcification within the prostate can occur after an infection or due to other reasons.

 

So by all accounts what you have is not life-threatening, so onwards and upwards Simon and please keep us posted.

[Sheryl]

Great news Simon.

[simon43]

Update 12th April:

 

Well, I've had my final post-biopsy meeting with my doctor.  They confirm that no biopsy samples detected any cancer cells, including the samples that were targeted at the shadows found on my MRI scan.  I have a letter to this effect which I can provide to any medical insurance company who will take me on.

 

As with all my other consultations since last October, my pee sample indicated the presence of a UTI.  This is in spite of numerous and different antibiotic medications over the past 6 months! My doctor feels that my raised PSA is certainly not due to the presence of cancer cells, but down to this UTI and prostatitis, the latter creating a semi-hard nodule inside my prostate.

 

So it's back on yet more antibiotics of 2 types to try to clear up the UTI and prostatitis, then onto Finasteride to slowly reduce my prostate size, and then regular PSA checks commencing in about 4 months from now.  Since my UTI/prostatitis causes me no outward symptoms, I'm happy to live with this, and my doctor mentioned that many older men have asymptomatic UTI/prostatitis without any need for further treatment.

 

So I'm a happy chap!  Despite the numerous complaints about the NHS, the time from registering with a UK GP through to 'sign-off' from cancer investigations was 8 weeks - this included 4 meetings with my new GP and 4 meetings/diagnosis at the urology department of the local hospital.

[xylophone]

  On 4/12/2023 at 9:28 AM, simon43 said:

My doctor feels that my raised PSA is certainly not due to the presence of cancer cells, but down to this UTI and prostatitis, the latter creating a semi-hard nodule inside my prostate

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Fantastic news for you Simon and I'm sure for all of the other folks who follow you on this forum.

 

A short while back I did a post about my experience with the prostate and the calcification/lumps inside of it, which it appears you may well have, especially as I too had UTIs for months, in fact on and off for years, because of this (I did post about this in detail).

 

I don't know what antibiotic they have got you on, but I would have tried just about every one on this planet and eventually, owing to the fact I contacted two professors who were investigating similar scenarios to yours and mine, I tried a combination of Fosfomycin (Monural) and doxycycline, which they recommended and they worked; and that is what they now put their patients, with similar conditions, on.

 

Strangely enough a couple of decades ago I did try doxycycline on its own for three months and although it calmed the situation down, sure enough the UTI came back. Then ciprofloxacin was recommended and I was on that for about six weeks, and that was not successful.

 

Anyway, the best thing is that you have no cancer, so heartfelt congratulations on your latest news.

[simon43]

A quick follow-up post some 5 months after my hospital diagnosis of no prostate cancer cells but plenty of urine infection/bacteria which seems to be the cause of my higher-than-normal PSA value, (my value is also slightly raised under normal circumstances due to BPH).

 

The doctor at Blackpool Hospital recommended a PSA test some 5 months after diagnosis and so since I was back in Laos, and since I was making a short trip to Pattaya to collect some radio ham parts from my 'lock-up' in Pattaya, I went down to Lifecare to have a general blood, urine and PSA test again. (I recommend this clinic for their fast (results in 24 hours) and cheap (1,400 baht all-in) service.

 

My PSA result was about 11. (If you think this value is alarmingly-high, and haven't read this thread before, please read my earlier posts and the reason for this high value will be explained).

 

Yep, I still have the UTI.  In fact, I know that I have had this ongoing UTI for the past year, easily identifiable by a characteristic bad smell when peeing!  I'm happy therefore that my PSA value has stayed constant.  My urine test confirmed the presence of a UTI, plus raised nitrite level and increased white cell count in my pee.

 

This UTI is luckily asymptomatic, with no burning sensation etc when peeing.  I'm taking Xylophone's advice from his last post and trying a combination of Fosfomycin and Doxycyclin to see if I can get rid of this stubborn UTI.

 

 

[actonion]

  On 10/7/2022 at 10:50 AM, simon43 said:

To be honest, I haven't tried not taking the BPH medication.  I guess I should give that a go ????

 

Dr Google tells me that a UTI will definitely raise my PSA value.  He also says that I need to wait about 1 month before repeating the PSA test after clearing the UTI.  But in any case, I will go and chat with the doctor in the meantime.

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Yes  , a Urologist

[scubascuba3]

  On 9/16/2023 at 2:05 AM, simon43 said:

A quick follow-up post some 5 months after my hospital diagnosis of no prostate cancer cells but plenty of urine infection/bacteria which seems to be the cause of my higher-than-normal PSA value, (my value is also slightly raised under normal circumstances due to BPH).

 

The doctor at Blackpool Hospital recommended a PSA test some 5 months after diagnosis and so since I was back in Laos, and since I was making a short trip to Pattaya to collect some radio ham parts from my 'lock-up' in Pattaya, I went down to Lifecare to have a general blood, urine and PSA test again. (I recommend this clinic for their fast (results in 24 hours) and cheap (1,400 baht all-in) service.

 

My PSA result was about 11. (If you think this value is alarmingly-high, and haven't read this thread before, please read my earlier posts and the reason for this high value will be explained).

 

Yep, I still have the UTI.  In fact, I know that I have had this ongoing UTI for the past year, easily identifiable by a characteristic bad smell when peeing!  I'm happy therefore that my PSA value has stayed constant.  My urine test confirmed the presence of a UTI, plus raised nitrite level and increased white cell count in my pee.

 

This UTI is luckily asymptomatic, with no burning sensation etc when peeing.  I'm taking Xylophone's advice from his last post and trying a combination of Fosfomycin and Doxycyclin to see if I can get rid of this stubborn UTI.

 

 

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I'd probably try cranberry juice every day until it went also

[simon43]

I forgot to mention that my blood test gave very good results for choresterol, liver and kidney function etc ???? All looking good.

 

Yes, I regularly drink cranberry juice.  It has zero effect to 'kill' the UTI....

 

@actonion, you replied to an old post.  I have been under the care of urologists for many months and none have been able to clear the UTI, despite antibiotic treatments for months.

[mstevens]

  On 9/16/2023 at 2:54 AM, simon43 said:

I forgot to mention that my blood test gave very good results for choresterol, liver and kidney function etc ???? All looking good.

 

Yes, I regularly drink cranberry juice.  It has zero effect to 'kill' the UTI....

 

@actonion, you replied to an old post.  I have been under the care of urologists for many months and none have been able to clear the UTI, despite antibiotic treatments for months.

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This is a long shot but could it be a fungal infection that has reached the bladder? I battled Candida in the past and at one point it was widespread, including in the bladder which caused some mildly uncomfortable symptoms and frequent urination - but didn't test positive for bacteria. Antifungals were needed to clear it.

[scubascuba3]

  On 9/16/2023 at 2:54 AM, simon43 said:

Yes, I regularly drink cranberry juice.  It has zero effect to 'kill' the UTI....

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Yes it doesn't kill them but apparently stops them attaching to the bladder, something like that, anyway sounds like doesn't work

[simon43]

  On 9/16/2023 at 3:35 AM, mstevens said:

This is a long shot but could it be a fungal infection that has reached the bladder? I battled Candida in the past and at one point it was widespread, including in the bladder which caused some mildly uncomfortable symptoms and frequent urination - but didn't test positive for bacteria. Antifungals were needed to clear it.

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Thanks for your comment.  Nope it's definitely a bacterial infection, easily detectable by the simple tests performed.  My prostate cancer biopsy was postponed for almost 2 months because of this infection (the doctors didn't want to do the procedure in case of infection from this bacteria), until the doctors finally said 'to hell with this' and did the biopsy anyway! Result = no cancer cells and the UTI didn't cause any problems with the procedure.

[xylophone]

  On 9/16/2023 at 4:13 AM, simon43 said:

Thanks for your comment.  Nope it's definitely a bacterial infection, easily detectable by the simple tests performed.  My prostate cancer biopsy was postponed for almost 2 months because of this infection (the doctors didn't want to do the procedure in case of infection from this bacteria), until the doctors finally said 'to hell with this' and did the biopsy anyway! Result = no cancer cells and the UTI didn't cause any problems with the procedure.

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Again, good to hear that you are cancer free in that area Simon, however respectfully may I suggest something.......if the laboratory is able to detect bacteria in your sample, and you can easily detect it as well by sight and smell, then they should be able to culture that bacteria, i.e. grow it so they know exactly what it is and can test it against all sorts of antibiotics so you know exactly which one to use.

 

That has to be a priority for you IMO.
 

[simon43]

  On 9/16/2023 at 4:42 AM, xylophone said:

Again, good to hear that you are cancer free in that area Simon, however respectfully may I suggest something.......if the laboratory is able to detect bacteria in your sample, and you can easily detect it as well by sight and smell, then they should be able to culture that bacteria, i.e. grow it so they know exactly what it is and can test it against all sorts of antibiotics so you know exactly which one to use.

 

That has to be a priority for you IMO.
 

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Thanks for your comment.  That was done in the UK at Blackpool Hospital.  They cultured the bacteria, identified the type (it's in my medical notes somewhere). They then prescribed the recommended antibiotic to 'zap' that particular bacteria and ..... no response! So they tried again with another recommended antibiotic and again absolutely no reduction in the level of bacteria in my pee.  So they gave up trying to zap it because it was asymptomatic and causing me no painful or serious symptoms.  The doc said that some people have these UTIs for yonks without any apparent effect.  I'm trying the Fosfomycin+Doxy because Xylophone said that this worked for him (and no doctor has yet prescribed this combination of drugs).

[xylophone]

  On 9/16/2023 at 6:57 AM, simon43 said:

Thanks for your comment.  That was done in the UK at Blackpool Hospital.  They cultured the bacteria, identified the type (it's in my medical notes somewhere). They then prescribed the recommended antibiotic to 'zap' that particular bacteria and ..... no response! So they tried again with another recommended antibiotic and again absolutely no reduction in the level of bacteria in my pee.  So they gave up trying to zap it because it was asymptomatic and causing me no painful or serious symptoms.  The doc said that some people have these UTIs for yonks without any apparent effect.  I'm trying the Fosfomycin+Doxy because Xylophone said that this worked for him (and no doctor has yet prescribed this combination of drugs).

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That's very interesting Simon, because there is usually a number of antibiotics that can be tried in the case of difficult "infections", even going as far as intravenous injections daily for a week or two.

 

Just looked back into some of my notes from the professors I was dealing with and they too encountered some difficulties with clearing bacteria and they put it down to the bacteria being protected by a "biofilm" and this especially if the bacteria have been present for some time. The only way they got round this was to continue with the designated antibiotics, but for a lot longer period.

 

And yes the fosfomycin/doxycycline regimen did work for me, but it wasn't just for a week or two it was for quite a bit longer.  I also supplemented it with a urine "antiseptic/antibacterial" called Hiprex (tablets) and am still using them now. Good luck.
 

[xylophone]

  On 9/16/2023 at 4:04 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Yes it doesn't kill them but apparently stops them attaching to the bladder, something like that, anyway sounds like doesn't work

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You are right inasmuch as the sugar, d-mannose, in Cranberry juice does inhibit adhesion of bacteria to the baldder wall. The main problem is that the Cranberry juice that we buy in the supermarkets and the like, can be/are very much diluted so the amount of d-mannose available varies considerably and may well not be enough to make a difference – – however help is at hand, because d-mannose can be bought online separately in powder form.

[scubascuba3]

  On 9/16/2023 at 8:25 AM, xylophone said:

You are right inasmuch as the sugar, d-mannose, in Cranberry juice does inhibit adhesion of bacteria to the baldder wall. The main problem is that the Cranberry juice that we buy in the supermarkets and the like, can be/are very much diluted so the amount of d-mannose available varies considerably and may well not be enough to make a difference – – however help is at hand, because d-mannose can be bought online separately in powder form.

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Presumably eating cranberries (frozen from Makro) would have the same effect and have a higher concentration 

[xylophone]

  On 9/16/2023 at 8:58 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Presumably eating cranberries (frozen from Makro) would have the same effect and have a higher concentration 

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Not too sure about that scuba, however if I were to get onto that (again) I would certainly go for the d-mannose powder, which I can mix into a drink myself.