OA Health insurance

[Mamasun]

Hello

 

I have contact so many Health insurance NOBODY is able to tell me if : 3.000.000 M is : Inpatient and Outpatient....

or if Immigartion accept only Inpatient ?

 

Thanks for any returns of those who have already made their OA extension under this conditions ...

[nobodysfriend]

You need to contact your immigration office about the requirement . I contacted mine before renewing my 400000 baht insurance , and they said that they still accept this one . I did not need to change to the 3000000 insurance  ....

[Andrew Dwyer]

The renewal notice I received in September from LMG stated 3.5 million baht with 60k baht outpatient.

 

[pablo el sueco]

On Sep 29, I purchased the policy that LMG said I needed to extend my stay after 1 October 2022.  This policy states that I am covered for 3,500,000 baht inpatient (including for COVID-19) and 2,000 baht outpatient per visit with a limit of 30 outpatient visits for the duration of the policy period (which I assume could be expressed as 60,000 baht maximum outpatient coverage).

 

On Oct 6, I appeared at my province's Immigration Office to extend my stay on an O-A for retirement.  My extension was approved. However, I noticed that officers at the IO were still informing people that the current requirement was for 400,000 baht inpatient and 40,000 baht outpatient (no mention of COVID-19).  This concerned me because this was the coverage required for the past two years -- not the current requirement promoted by the insurance company -- and definitely not the requirement stated in the Police Order requiring a minimum of 3 million baht.

 

When I asked staff to explain the current insurance requirement they said they couldn't answer the question -- I must ask the supervisor as she was the only staff member who could answer the question.  I then spoke to the supervisor, using my Thai friend as an interpreter.  The supervisor said the requirement is as follows

• 400,000 baht for inpatient
• 40,000 baht for outpatient
• 100,000 USD for COVID-19

This response from the supervisor struck me as weird. The Police Order does not mention anything about 400,000 baht inpatient nor 40,000 baht outpatient.  Nor does the Police Order state that the minimum of 100,000 USD applies only to COVID-19.  I pressed the supervisor about that, and she said I needed to ask that question of my Insurance Agent.  The Insurance Agent said, via a telephone conversation, that since October 1, IO's throughout the Kingdom were inconsistently applying the new rule -- some of LMG's clients were sailing through their extension using last year's coverage requirement and others were being rejected with last year's coverage requirement.  The agent further stated that the supervisor's interpretation of the new requirement was officially correct -- but LMG had decided to write policies for a minimum 3,500,000 coverage applying not just to COVID-19, but for all health problems covered by the policy.

 

On October 7, the IO supervisor telephoned my Thai friend and said that after coordinating with higher authorities, the rule is definitely

• 400,000 baht for inpatient
• 40,000 baht for outpatient
• 100,000 USD for COVID-19

I really don't understand this rule as it definitely is not in accordance with the Police Order.

 

So far, in my opinion, this is a ludicrously mismanaged rollout of rules misinterpreted by everyone involved.

[Mamasun]

This is what LMG send me....BUT they are unable to say to me if WE need in and outpatient !!!

 

: << We have received information from the TGIA, which is the Thai General Insurance Association that confirmed the 3 Mil THB cover, and insurer such as LMG have upgraded the long stay plan along with outpatient >>

[Andrew Dwyer]

I would say you have to visit, or contact, your immigration office to determine what they will accept ( 40/400k or 3 million coverage ) and buy accordingly.

 The old coverage was 40k outpatient and following the in depth post by @pablo el sueco out patient on the new coverage is 60k , at 2k per visit.

[pablo el sueco]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I would say you have to visit, or contact, your immigration office to determine what they will accept ( 40/400k or 3 million coverage ) and buy accordingly.

 The old coverage was 40k outpatient and following the in depth post by @pablo el sueco out patient on the new coverage is 60k , at 2k per visit.

I completely agree that only one's Immigration Office can answer the question, as each IO seems to follow their own interpretation of the rules.  Since IO's interpretation of the rules seems to be fairly fluid at this time, I suggest that you get the requirements expressed in writing with the supervisor's signature before you put complete faith in their rule.

 

Regarding the 60k outpatient coverage, this is the amount expressed in the policy that LMG is promoting.  The Police Order is silent on the question of outpatient coverage.

[ubonjoe]

Immigration issued a new order in December of last year.

Download order for more info. RTP-Order-No.654-2564-1.pdf

[Mamasun]

Well..I am still at the same point nobody knows if 3.000 000 is for inpatient or in and outpatient !!!

 

as per my IO I cannot ask because they can change of the day of my application as they do absolutly what they want...what they will told me today can change in 1 month !!! and i will have NO proof of what they told me...

 

it is terrible to need to take a fake insurance with 200000 bahts deductible and pay 50000 bahts the year for nothing..i get my OA visa in my country in 2008 !!! I cannot understand why this new law is not applicable only to the new OA visa !!! 

 

I had the same insurer for 12 years..need to leave to get the outpatient in LMG. now have to leave again to an other insurance..

[ubonjoe]

52 minutes ago, Mamasun said:

Well..I am still at the same point nobody knows if 3.000 000 is for inpatient or in and outpatient !!!

The new rules do not break it down to inpatient or outpatient. It is a flat 3 million baht of coverage that includes covid 19.

[pablo el sueco]

49 minutes ago, Mamasun said:

Well..I am still at the same point nobody knows if 3.000 000 is for inpatient or in and outpatient !!!

Beginning 1 October 2022, the official regulation no longer specifies a minimum amount of outpatient coverage.  The official regulation to which I refer is the Police Order posted above by @ubonjoe.  Officially, the insurance policy only need specify 3,000,000 baht coverage for all health procedures including Covid-19.  LMG is offering a policy that satisfies the official regulation, and their policy happens to include a provision for outpatient coverage with a maximum of 60,000 baht.  This provision of outpatient coverage by LMG seems compatible with the official regulation, since the official regulation does not express a minimum nor a maximum amount of outpatient coverage.  As far as inpatient coverage is concerned, the policy offered by LMG limits the coverage to 3,500,000 baht, and this also seems to satisfy the official regulation.  Personally, I interpret the Police Order's requirement for 3 million baht coverage as being the minimum amount of coverage for all health procedures combined, with no specified limits applying to inpatient vs outpatient procedures -- because that is what it says!  The Police Order defines the official requirement, and the insurance policy you buy must conform to that minimum requirement, though it can exceed the minimum requirement.

 

49 minutes ago, Mamasun said:

as per my IO I cannot ask because they can change of the day of my application as they do absolutly what they want...what they will told me today can change in 1 month !!! and i will have NO proof of what they told me...

I suggest you ask for an explanation of what is required by your Immigration Office; and for your future protection, I further suggest you get the requirements in writing, dated, and signed by the supervisor.

 

50 minutes ago, Mamasun said:

it is terrible to need to take a fake insurance with 200000 bahts deductible and pay 50000 bahts the year for nothing..i get my OA visa in my country in 2008 !!! I cannot understand why this new law is not applicable only to the new OA visa !!! 

I agree, and so does at least one provincial Immigration Office.  Unfortunately there is no Kingdom-wide oversight structure which monitors the implementation of official rules for consistency between offices and for conformity with regulations.

 

50 minutes ago, Mamasun said:

I had the same insurer for 12 years..need to leave to get the outpatient in LMG. now have to leave again to an other insurance..

It is not fair, but you are not alone.  I used to work in an environment which developed and rolled out complicated government-mandated rule changes affecting a large segment of the population.  The rollout procedure was limited at first to a small subset of the population until all the kinks were worked out; only after it was working perfectly would a project be rolled out to the population as a whole.   This, I believe, is the approach being used by the government to implement Insurance Requirements intended to apply to all non-immigrant visas in the future.

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, pablo el sueco said:

The agent further stated that the supervisor's interpretation of the new requirement was officially correct:

• 400,000 baht for inpatient
• 40,000 baht for outpatient
• 100,000 USD for COVID-19

-- but LMG had decided to write policies for a minimum 3,500,000 coverage applying not just to COVID-19, but for all inpatient health problems covered by the policy -- plus another 60k for outpatient.

Ah, it's now making some sense as to why LMG wrote the new OA health policy as it did -- 'cause they got the same convoluted guidance about the new requirements as did Immigration Offices, namely, the "400k inpatient, 40k outpatient, and 100k$ Covid coverages." Thus, LMG offered a 3.5M policy, that blanketed both the supposed 400k inpatient requirement and the supposed $100k (3M baht) covid requirement. Then, they stuck in an additional 60k to cover the supposed 40k outpatient requirement. Yeah, some inflation involved in their policy numbers, but LMG saw where the baht was headed and thus built in some protection, given the screwy guidance that policies be valued in both dollars and baht.

 

Anyway,  where the convoluted guidance came from is anyone's guess. But both the Dec 27, 2021 Police Order the the Health Ministry publication:

https://image.mfa.go.th/mfa/0/tDJBi9m15g/The_Amendment_to_Additional_Criteria_for_Purchasing_Health_Insurance_fo_Non-Immigrant_O-A_Visa.pdf

are straightforward on the correct wording -- and the implementation date, namely, 1 Oct 2022 (in the TGIA reference, posted earlier, they were incorrect on implementation date, stating 1 Sept 2022. Isn't anybody in charge with all this....(rhetorical ?).)

 

I don't know if LMG is the only TGIA company writing their new OA policies using the convoluted guidance they got...... Anyone out there looked at the new policies from some of the other OA insurance companies?

 

[pablo el sueco]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

where the convoluted guidance came from is anyone's guess

I'll share with you my guess -- 

 

• I believe Insurance Companies follow guidelines established by the Thai General Insurance Association (TGIA) which is self-described as a trade organization for the non-life insurance industry in Thailand.  LMG, for example, is a member of TGIA and, as such, must abide by the guidelines established by TGIA. 
• The relevant Police Order outlining specific insurance requirements for O-A retirees, on the other hand, was written according to regulations established by the Ministry of Public Health (MOPH) which is a government body. 
• The guidelines established by TGIA (a trade organization) are not in synch with the regulations established by MOPH (a government body).  For the sake of integrity, they certainly should be in pefect synch, but they aren't. 
• Since the Immigration Bureau is under the command of the Royal Thai Police, Immigration Officers ought to be following the regulations officially set forth under the Police Order, not the unofficial guidelines promulgated by the insurance industry -- why they don't follow their own Police Order is anybody's guess.

 

The foregoing is simply my hypothesis which I contribute for the sake of discussion.

 

[Mamasun]

I think I am going to take 2 insurances : the LMG , the cheaper possible with the highest deductible...only for the visa....and then for myself without any deductible will found a cheaper insurance to be covers in full if.......!

 

I have contact maybe 20 insurers...all are Aware of the OA visa NEW requirements

but AXA , APRIL.Pacific CROSS.. all want a very heavy medical check up after 65 Y old.

 

then we have Abroad insurers like by example the UK WRLIFE ..they are cheap ( reasonable )..no deductible ect BUT need to have the health certificate act sign by Ambassy or ministry of foreign affairs....!!!! and not sure if My IO will appreciate that..or aware about it !!!

 

Its a full time job !!!

[bangkok19]

I went with LMG for my wife's OA Visa. I got directed to it from the Thai Consulate's links as one of several (preferred?) Thai Insurers.

Even though I took out the Policy back in June, I'd do it again (with them)  

for a 1 year visa under whatever are the current conditions at the time.

It was hassle free, as well as the cheapest, and got us the Visa.

I'm specifically talking E-Visa applications online, and not "in person" at Immigration Office.

Their specialty seems to be for long stay visa and they're probably doing hundreds every week.

Methinks that if the Government (Immigration) is getting their 'cut' from an Insurance Company that they recommend, then when they see the Insurance Policy (submitted by the Visa applicant) with the LMG logo they don't really examine the numbers.

I haven't heard (on this Forum) of any applicants getting knocked back by the Thai Consulate for having a WRONG LMG Policy! 

For myself, I never get 1 year visa's, so I prefer to use the Company (at home) that I have my Private Health Cover with.  I get Travel Insurance with them covering JUST health (no cancellations or theft ins.)..  that makes it cheaper PLUS I get another 15% off for already being a member.   My cancellations, theft etc Ins. is partially covered by the Platinum Mastercard I buy my tickets with.

I'm over 65 y.o. and I'm surprised that the Insurance Company (here at home) ask fairly basic questions about my medical history. 

 

This probably doesn't help the O.P. however it's my take on Health Insurance, and definitely a pain in the butt when you get quoted different amounts for the requirements!