Child custody rules in thailand ?

[yaronf]

Hi, having some <deleted>ty time with the thai partner lately, were not married, we have a child together, less than 1yr old, in the event of seperation, i get that by default he goes with the mom , which im ok with and believe we will reach some agreement on how much time he will spent with each of us, not there yet but i would like to know :

is there any sort of law that can prevent her from taking him up north ? is there a distance that i could force her to keep or anything like that ? that is if i take a step to bring in a lawyer to the picture
 

Edited October 13, 2022 by yaronf

[d4dang]

get some legal advice. In Thai couples the male child generally goes to the father. Visitation and support agreements are rarely enforced. Hopefully your ex will put your child's future first. 

[yaronf]

8 minutes ago, d4dang said:

get some legal advice. In Thai couples the male child generally goes to the father. Visitation and support agreements are rarely enforced. Hopefully your ex will put your child's future first. 

with the father ? really ? 

i will certainly get legal advice.
just out of curousity , did you encounter a case like that ? or read it somewhere ?

[CharlieH]

In many instances, the child gets dumped on the Grandparents in the home village. The mother goes on and lives her life.Money plays a huge part.

Wztch you dont get fleeced and false promises when in reality the child access is withdrawn or made extremely difficult.

[yaronf]

2 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

In many instances, the child gets dumped on the Grandparents in the home village. The mother goes on and lives her life.Money plays a huge part.

Wztch you dont get fleeced and false promises when in reality the child access is withdrawn or made extremely difficult.

yes thats exactly what im concerned about.

[CharlieH]

1 minute ago, yaronf said:

yes thats exactly what im concerned about.

You dont give much info, so alot of guesswork and its difficult to advise.

How old are you and on what basis are you staying in Thailand ? Are you working here ? Where is your home country ? All these things matter.

[yaronf]

1 minute ago, CharlieH said:

You dont give much info, so alot of guesswork and its difficult to advise.

How old are you and on what basis are you staying in Thailand ? Are you working here ? Where is your home country ? All these things matter.

38, semi retired here, although i have an online business here and a NON-B visa and work permit, home country is Cyprus

[CharlieH]

1 minute ago, yaronf said:

38, semi retired here, although i have an online business here and a NON-B visa and work permit, home country is Cyprus

Ok, looking good so far.

Is your name on the birth certificate ?

[yaronf]

1 minute ago, CharlieH said:

Ok, looking good so far.

Is your name on the birth certificate ?

yes it is

[CharlieH]

1 minute ago, yaronf said:

yes it is

Ok, good.

My best advice is you have to keep her onside, dont make any waves, play the long game. There are a few ways to play this dependent on your goal.Most important is dont alienate her or she'll do a runner up North and you'll have a really tough almost impossible battle in front of you.

Think about a nice holiday to Cyprus, you know where I'm going with that one. Presumably you have family and a support network there ?

 

[Kenny202]

Surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but if you are not married you have zero parental rights unless you go through the courts and do the paternity thing. Not that hard to do, process about 3 months and u need a lawyer...but it is a lot simpler if she supports it. If not you may need to do DNA testing. Once you get your judgement papers are lodged at the Amphur. Your name on the birth certificate gives you no rights whatsoever. After you do all that then if she wont play ball you need to go back to court and fight for visitation...even then she may ignore it or do as she pleases. Maybe she is expecting financial support from you, which you may be able to leverage your rights with

[yaronf]

8 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Ok, good.

My best advice is you have to keep her onside, dont make any waves, play the long game. There are a few ways to play this dependent on your goal.Most important is dont alienate her or she'll do a runner up North and you'll have a really tough almost impossible battle in front of you.

Think about a nice holiday to Cyprus, you know where I'm going with that one. Presumably you have family and a support network there ?

 

i do, but if taking the route of staying in thailand but seperated, what are the options ?

[CharlieH]

Just now, yaronf said:

i do, but if taking the route of staying in thailand but seperated, what are the options ?

Deep pockets, lawyers, very long drawn out and if she wants to, it will be almost impossible. You know her best, and can probably guess how she is going to react. The child will probably be used as a bargaini g chip to leverage a monthly payment for her.

[yaronf]

5 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but if you are not married you have zero parental rights unless you go through the courts and do the paternity thing. Not that hard to do, process about 3 months and u need a lawyer...but it is a lot simpler if she supports it. If not you may need to do DNA testing. Once you get your judgement papers are lodged at the Amphur. Your name on the birth certificate gives you no rights whatsoever. After you do all that then if she wont play ball you need to go back to court and fight for visitation...even then she may ignore it or do as she pleases. Maybe she is expecting financial support from you, which you may be able to leverage your rights with

thanks for the information, will definetly start that process while things are still reasonable with her.

[yaronf]

2 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Deep pockets, lawyers, very long drawn out and if she wants to, it will be almost impossible. You know her best, and can probably guess how she is going to react. The child will probably be used as a bargaini g chip to leverage a monthly payment for her.

so many horror stories in this arena but thank you all, il do my best to keep a level head and dont think "that wont happen to me""

[Kenny202]

34 minutes ago, yaronf said:

with the father ? really ? 

i will certainly get legal advice.
just out of curousity , did you encounter a case like that ? or read it somewhere ?

I have heard two sides of that story and not sure either is correct. My Thai friend told me it used to be accepted that the girls would go with the natural father so the new step father wouldn't have any interest in the young daughters. I dont think it is as simple as that anymore and more to do with the fitness / stabillity of each parent.

[Kenny202]

4 minutes ago, yaronf said:

thanks for the information, will definetly start that process while things are still reasonable with her.

One of the first steps is taking her and usually the mother inlaw to child services for an interview and for them to vouch for you as a parent. The lawyer organizes all this once you get the ball rolling. Once shes done this its hard for her to back out and go back on her statement so the sooner u get it started and get her up for the interview the better. Hope it works out for you, best of luck

[CharlieH]

3 minutes ago, yaronf said:

so many horror stories in this arena but thank you all, il do my best to keep a level head and dont think "that wont happen to me""

Just remember that if you intend to stay in Thailand, she holds all the cards until you get the paperwork, after that you are in a stronger place but by no means winning position.

[KhaoYai]

8 hours ago, d4dang said:

get some legal advice. In Thai couples the male child generally goes to the father. Visitation and support agreements are rarely enforced. Hopefully your ex will put your child's future first. 

Do you mean by tradition?  The legal starting point is quite clear, the mother gets custody by default unless the father can show good reason why she shouldn't.  The family courts however do grant access rights if they cannot be agreed upon - whether those rights are enforced, I know not.

 

I doubt the OP will be able to prevent his child's mother from taking the child 'up North' in the event of a break up.

[thailand49]

Get a lawyer one that is in Bangkok with an International firm that can speak and explains thing to you clearly. 

[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Deep pockets, lawyers, very long drawn out and if she wants to, it will be almost impossible. You know her best, and can probably guess how she is going to react. The child will probably be used as a bargaini g chip to leverage a monthly payment for her.

He should pay her if it's his kid,  he would be a bit of a low life Thai father if he didn't IMHO. 

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, yaronf said:

is there any sort of law that can prevent her from taking him up north ? 

Of course there isn't.  Sorry.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[crazykopite]

9 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but if you are not married you have zero parental rights unless you go through the courts and do the paternity thing. Not that hard to do, process about 3 months and u need a lawyer...but it is a lot simpler if she supports it. If not you may need to do DNA testing. Once you get your judgement papers are lodged at the Amphur. Your name on the birth certificate gives you no rights whatsoever. After you do all that then if she wont play ball you need to go back to court and fight for visitation...even then she may ignore it or do as she pleases. Maybe she is expecting financial support from you, which you may be able to leverage your rights with

Going back a few years an old friend got his woman pregnant and out of it they produced a son after a couple of years things came to a halt they had never married however she wasn’t bothered about her son that much that in the end my friend decided to take him back to the U.K. the boy had duel nationality she was happy for this to happen and all they did was go to the local police station and sign certain forms he and his young son then returned to the U.K. sadly my friend passed away three years later and his daughter took over the responsibility of taking care of the boy who would be around 14 years of age 

[SbuxPlease]

This topic comes up here periodically and the general consensus is the Thai laws do not help the foreign parent much, but in cases where the Thai parent/mother is harmful to the child (drugs, alcohol, abuse, etc.), there is a pathway available.

 

Expect to spend a million baht or more with a top notch law firm and a year or two to gain custody. There was a thread a while back on Thaivisa about an American using Tilleke & Gibbons law firm whom I believe has a divorce/custody niche.

 

A more favorable pathway is, as another poster mention, play the long game. If it's not working out, just accept this and think about the ways you can incentivize the mother to want to stay in Bangkok. Can you rent her a condo nearby? Can you give a weekly budget that she has to pick up from you in cash? All this may be a whole lot cheaper than the alternatives if you can swallow your ego.

 

 

You know her best, and might have some idea about what to do. It's tempting to go nuclear at this stage, but those stories are always so ugly.

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

12 hours ago, yaronf said:

with the father ? really ? 

i will certainly get legal advice.
just out of curousity , did you encounter a case like that ? or read it somewhere ?

Stop getting armchair comments, seek out and discuss with a well respected lawyer.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, SbuxPlease said:

This topic comes up here periodically and the general consensus is the Thai laws do not help the foreign parent much, but in cases where the Thai parent/mother is harmful to the child (drugs, alcohol, abuse, etc.), there is a pathway available.

 

Expect to spend a million baht or more with a top notch law firm and a year or two to gain custody. There was a thread a while back on Thaivisa about an American using Tilleke & Gibbons law firm whom I believe has a divorce/custody niche.

 

A more favorable pathway is, as another poster mention, play the long game. If it's not working out, just accept this and think about the ways you can incentivize the mother to want to stay in Bangkok. Can you rent her a condo nearby? Can you give a weekly budget that she has to pick up from you in cash? All this may be a whole lot cheaper than the alternatives if you can swallow your ego.

 

 

You know her best, and might have some idea about what to do. It's tempting to go nuclear at this stage, but those stories are always so ugly.

 

 

 

 

"This topic comes up here periodically and the general consensus is the Thai laws do not help the foreign parent much...."

 

I'm not sure that's true.

 

Seek some proper legal advice from a respected lawyer.

[khunPer]

15 hours ago, yaronf said:

were not married, we have a child together, less than 1yr old, in the event of seperation, i get that by default he goes with the mom

As @Kenny202 says, you have no rights as father, just being named on the birth certificate when you are not legally married to the mother. You will to my knowledge need a DNA-test and a visit to the family court to be recognized as father.

 

Later, when a child is 7 years or older, it can be done at the amphor district-office, but both the mother, the child and the father needs to be present and confirm it (I did it that way, but have no problems with my girlfriend and mom to our child).

 

Often some funds can clear a problem in Thailand, which could be a lump sum or ongoing child support - which should not begin before the family court has approved you as father, you will need a lawyer to help you - being recognized as father might mean that you shall financially support your child, this is beginning to take place in Thailand and often heard figurs are 3,000 to 5,000 baht per month.

 

Being registered as father, you can have the birth-certificate and court-result legalized and apply for a Cyprus passport - I presume Cyprus follows the EU-rules, after the so-called "Genovese against Malta"-case i 2011 - so a child born abroad with a foreign mother can obtain citizenship in an EU country if the father is citizen in an EU country. It might be valuable for your child to have dual nationality and a passport from an EU country.

[2008bangkok]

I don't think you have any rights if you wasnt married at the time of birth, silly rule but it seems to be the case.

 

Its annoying and frustrating because they likely to send the kid up to the village with grandparents and then go off to work somewhere.

 

Im going through similar although I was married and named on birth certificates.

 

Best option, keep on side as nothing like an upset Thai women,  perhaps offer her bit of money each month for child support, money always brings a smile to Thais.

 

Good luck????

Edited October 14, 2022 by 2008bangkok

[KhaoYai]

On 10/13/2022 at 5:15 PM, CharlieH said:

Think about a nice holiday to Cyprus, you know where I'm going with that one. Presumably you have family and a support network there ?

 

I think I know where you're going with that but without any knowledge of the lady in question, that could be a bit hasty.

 

Let's say she's a great mother, loves her child etc. etc. - how would she be able to afford to visit her child in the future?

 

In some circumstances, I'd agree 100% but we know nothing about the mother.  I'd hate to see a kid taken away from its mother, its culture and its relations without very good reason.

 

If the OP's relationship does break down and the mother is good with the child - its a very good guess that he will find it much easier to visit his child (if he cannot stay in the country) than its mother would in the opposite situation.

 

OP, on the basis that the mother is a good mother, you should pay heed to the Thai family structure, culture and traditions - which in many ways is much better than many in the West.  If your relationship does break down but you stay in Thailand, would it really be so bad if your child was taken 'up North'?  Most areas of Thailand can be reached in little over an hour by air and if you are flexible with your timings, flights are pretty cheap.  If the child's maternal family are good people, can you give your kid what they can?

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by KhaoYai

[CharlieH]

43 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I think I know where you're going with that but without any knowledge of the lady in question, that could be a bit hasty.

 

Let's say she's a great mother, loves her child etc. etc. - how would she be able to afford to visit her child in the future?

 

In some circumstances, I'd agree 100% but we know nothing about the mother.  I'd hate to see a kid taken away from its mother, its culture and its relations without very good reason.

 

If the OP's relationship does break down and the mother is good with the child - its a very good guess that he will find it much easier to visit his child (if he cannot stay in the country) than its mother would in the opposite situation.

 

OP, on the basis that the mother is a good mother, you should pay heed to the Thai family structure, culture and traditions - which in many ways is much better than many in the West.  If your relationship does break down but you stay in Thailand, would it really be so bad if your child was taken 'up North'?  Most areas of Thailand can be reached in little over an hour by air and if you are flexible with your timings, flights are pretty cheap.  If the child's maternal family are good people, can you give your kid what they can?

 

Youre right on many levels, that said ,in some you are also in "ideal world" territory and that unfortunately is very rarely the case here. As I mentioned earlier in this , he knows her best, and knows how she will probably react etc and thats the missing info for us standing on the outside of this.

She may well be a great Mum close to her child, she may also be a "I got a life lead, kid is too young  I aint doing this alone" Onlly the OP can assess that one.He's in a tough place and I wish him well with his choices.