Thainess - What Is It?

[Lacessit]

Just now, Hummin said:

Is Typical rude swearing western foreigner we see in popular beach cities and more typical around red light districs typical for all of us?

 

My impression where I'm walking, is most I meet is very polite and respectful. 

 

Again, my experience 

I would never use the f-word in front of a Thai, they know exactly what it means and to them it is highly insulting. Although they do have a fairly extensive vocabulary of swear words of their own.

I'd have to agree rudeness is much more an attribute of foreigners.

 

[Neeranam]

36 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

I'm afraid you don't own the concept of Thainess, so cannot instruct others in what you think it should be.  You can, of course say "this is what I learnt about the government definition of "Thainess" that I taught in my classroom".  And it is genuinely interesting to read.

Fair points, but I would argue that, as a teacher, I can instruct others, esp foreigners, about what it is. 

It is interesting, I wonder if other countries have a similar thing taught at school. 

On a forum that generally bashes Thais, I guess it is no surprise that many view it as negative. 

[Walker88]

As with any belief system, from religion to nationalism, there is a wholesale version and a retail version. By that I mean the theoretical belief system (wholesale) and how the masses actually practice it (retail) One barely has a connection to the other, as at the retail level everything from superstition to bias to insecurity to delusion enters into the picture.

 

Proponents of any wholesale version tend to be in positions of authority, and their primary goal is control, which is to say maintaining their privileged position. The more persuasive they are---persuasion involves everything from creating feelings of guilt to outright criminal charges for not observing the tenets---the better they are able to control and keep their exalted status.

 

Every nation, even society, every culture and every tribe likes to think of itself as unique and special. There really isn’t an objective reality, though one could construct a benchmark and judge ‘uniqueness’ against that, but we don’t do that. Instead, we give every nation, culture, society and tribe the proverbial Participation Trophy. Everybody’s a winner and everybody feels good about themselves, whether a society ever offered any value to the species or not.

 

I’ve had the opportunity to reside in 10 countries, for a minimum of two years in each. Every single one believed its culture was unique, special, gifted, the best. Among the 10 nations every major faith was represented, and in most all the believers were absolutely certain that theirs was the One Truth. These faiths also have wholesale and retail versions, the retail usually characterized by older superstitions upon which the supposed One Truth was spread like butter on bread. In fact, the superstitions are much stronger and sit at odds with the actual dogma, but everyone just ignores that and calls themselves pious or spiritual. We all can name examples, so I'll refrain.

 

Often the beliefs, including about each society’s icons, are delusional. To remain within the boundaries of forum decorum, I’ll use as an example Popes of the Catholic faith. Ostensibly infallible, it’s pretty easy to see some---like Alexander VI---were pretty nasty and immoral. Nobody is infallible and nobody is semi-divine. Iconoclasts do society a service. Ideally, a society is respectful and loyal to principles, not persons, but humans seem to need gods in a variety of forms (sadly, even the USA).

 

So what is "Thainess" ? It seems to be whatever anyone wants to think it should be, whether it is or not. All of the "isms" and "ness" any society has are primarily---at the retail level---refuges into which one retreats to stand against "others" and outsiders. It's institutionalized tribalism, the same as any nation or society's self-defined identity. Individuals may be weak and vulnerable, but when retreating into a group or tribe, they feel stronger and more secure.

 

[Lemsta69]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Manage conflict by peaceful means with self - discipline.

except when a dirty foreigner, for example, questions the inflated price that you're trying to charge him. then you drop the smile and go into beast mode. 

 

but I expect you've either never seen that because you're too holy to have ever gone to a tourist area or you believe that the scumbag foreigner had it coming because he was poorly behaved or unwashed or some other flimsy excuse. 

 

ps. I love Thailand otherwise I wouldn't have retired here and made it my home. but I've seen the smile quickly turn into snarls so I'm under no illusions. 

 

my theory is that everything you posted makes them bottle stuff up. they can't take it out on the Mercedes-driving guy from the big house and foreigners are easy prey so have at it. 

[BangkokReady]

36 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Fair points, but I would argue that, as a teacher, I can instruct others, esp foreigners, about what it is. 

You can instruct people in what the government or education system says Thainess is in an effort to build a certain type of citizen, sure. But you have to accept that this is only an ideal, not necessarily reality. "ThainessTM" if you like.

 

36 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It is interesting, I wonder if other countries have a similar thing taught at school. 

I would imagine most Western countries had similar a few decades ago, but would now be considered problematic, for various reasons. "Diversity is our strength", etc.

 

36 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

On a forum that generally bashes Thais, I guess it is no surprise that many view it as negative. 

It probably shouldn't be viewed as completely negative or completely positive. Nobody is perfect, and if we were to view Thainess as descriptive rather than instructional, wouldn't there need to be negatives as well as positives?

 

If Thainess means "how Thai people should behave", then we would hope it would all be positive. If Thainess means "how Thai people actually behave", there will inevitably be negatives.

[Iamfalang]

30 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I would never use the f-word in front of a Thai, they know exactly what it means and to them it is highly insulting. Although they do have a fairly extensive vocabulary of swear words of their own.

I'd have to agree rudeness is much more an attribute of foreigners.

 

A couple years before COVID when I was 'teaching,' I heard HUNDREDS of kids (High School) using the F-word in class.   Some of these kids are 18, they understand.  Fortunately for them, I didn't care and would just give them a look and shake my head.   I wouldn't hear it again from that class for a few weeks.   To them, it's comical.   <deleted>...hahahahhaha.    I even saw a kid and a TEACHER with the F-word on their shirt.   Is it rude?  Not to me, I don't care, it's not my country.

If a falang did any of the above (teacher or not) ........................worst....................falang.........................ever.   

 

We can choose to disagree, I don't think I've ever met a Thai who found the F-word highly insulting.  

[BangkokReady]

13 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

my theory is that everything you posted makes them bottle stuff up.

Yes. occasionally the veil slips and they lose their shizz. I think that's one if the reasons foreingers comment on it so much. It's such a contrast. Rather than a constant bubbling of discontent, it's uber-tolerance and explosive reaction over something minor.

 

And I'm not saying this to be negative.

[coolcarer]

39 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Fair points, but I would argue that, as a teacher, I can instruct others, esp foreigners, about what it is. 

It is interesting, I wonder if other countries have a similar thing taught at school. 

On a forum that generally bashes Thais, I guess it is no surprise that many view it as negative. 

The World  News and politics section on this forum is open now, plenty of western bashing going on their. it’s a forum, I think it only fair that the same level of criticisms are also open to Thai matters. Thai bashing for the sake of Thai bashing is however never appropriate, there should in my opinion be a genuine reason for it, be it factual or personal experience.

 

Many people are far too quick with the Thai bashing card, normally followed with if you don’t like it then leave. Cheap and weak argument.

[Andre0720]

If that is the correct definition of Thainess, then it is used in a sarcastic way here.... For known reasons...

[Neeranam]

43 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

except when a dirty foreigner, for example, questions the inflated price that you're trying to charge him. then you drop the smile and go into beast mode. 

 

but I expect you've either never seen that because you're too holy to have ever gone to a tourist area or you believe that the scumbag foreigner had it coming because he was poorly behaved or unwashed or some other flimsy excuse

Too holy, what the flip are you on about? 

Foreigners aren't charged more, and if they complain, dirty or not, it's inappropriate. 

Refusing a free mask from a govt. minister at the start of a pandemic is shirty behaviour. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Refusing a free mask from a govt. minister at the start of a pandemic is shirty behaviour. 

No way would I take a clothe given to me by a guy in the street and then put it over my mouth and nose , especially if he wasn't wearing protective gloves 

[it is what it is]

 

any countries culture can be analysed and criticised, it's a pity this thread focuses so much on the negatives. all countries have positives and negatives. sadly, a more balanced and nuanced debate is probably not on the table here.

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

...................

Every nation, even society, every culture and every tribe likes to think of itself as unique and special. There really isn’t an objective reality, though one could construct a benchmark and judge ‘uniqueness’ against that, but we don’t do that. Instead, we give every nation, culture, society and tribe the proverbial Participation Trophy. Everybody’s a winner and everybody feels good about themselves, whether a society ever offered any value to the species or not.

 

I’ve had the opportunity to reside in 10 countries, for a minimum of two years in each. Every single one believed its culture was unique, special, gifted, the best. Among the 10 nations every major faith was represented, and in most all the believers were absolutely certain that theirs was the One Truth.

..............

Excellent post. I do not have experience from 10 countries, but I can absolutely confirm what you write from the experience I have. Everybody is thinking that their culture is special in terms of deeper meaning and quality, that their language is the most eloquent and meaningful etc. Of course all are different. Obviously it is a challange now to detect what we all have in common instead of pointing out the differences.

[sungod]

The best example of Thainess I have seen has been summed up by the covid situation where as motorcycle riders and passengers will wear a surgical face mask on their bikes but not wear a crash /safety helmet.

 

I think we can close this topic now, nuff said!

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

The quality to be polite no matter how rude the other person is.

Thats a good skill

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

Again, my experience and doesn't mean I'm not visiting bars for a drink, but my impression Thais is in general very polite people and give alot of respect. 

Thais pride themselves on being non-confrontational and tolerant. Very different to where I come from, Leith/Aberdeen.

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, sungod said:

The best example of Thainess I have seen has been summed up by the covid situation where as motorcycle riders and passengers will wear a surgical face mask on their bikes but not wear a crash /safety helmet.

 

I think we can close this topic now, nuff said!

This has nothing to do with Thainess, troll elsewhere.

[sungod]

11 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Obviously it is a challange now to detect what we all have in common instead of pointing out the differences.

I have lots in common with my Thai friends, I am also unable to say the word sorry or take responsibility of my own actions and admit where I am wrong.

 

I do cook a mean penang curry though.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No way would I take a clothe given to me by a guy in the street and then put it over my mouth and nose , especially if he wasn't wearing protective gloves 

No one was in the street, don't know if he was wearing gloves, I'm sure they were in a bag. 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, sungod said:

I have lots in common with my Thai friends, I am also unable to say the word sorry or take responsibility of my own actions and admit where I am wrong.

 

I do cook a mean penang curry though.

If you really think that, I highly doubt you have any Thai friends, that you don't pay for.

[Hummin]

20 minutes ago, sungod said:

The best example of Thainess I have seen has been summed up by the covid situation where as motorcycle riders and passengers will wear a surgical face mask on their bikes but not wear a crash /safety helmet.

 

I think we can close this topic now, nuff said!

Oh man, riding without an helmet is Thainess? Get real ????

 

Without years of statistic, quality information and fines that hurt, no countries would  had riders  who automatically put a helmet on without thinking no matter how short their ride was. 
 

Thailand is very much 100 - 50 years behind us in many ways. 
 

 

[sungod]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

This has nothing to do with Thainess, troll elsewhere.

What is it then?  I have only seen Thai people do this.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Iamfalang said:

A couple years before COVID when I was 'teaching,' I heard HUNDREDS of kids (High School) using the F-word in class. 

I taught here for 25 years and can  remember on one hand the times kids used F-word. 

[sungod]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

If you really think that, I highly doubt you have any Thai friends, that you don't pay for.

I'm popular on the moo bahn with my penang curry.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No one was in the street, don't know if he was wearing gloves, I'm sure they were in a bag. 

Wasn't he handing masks out in the street ?

I am quite sure that he wasn't wearing any gloves , besides , I wouldn't take anything from anyone and I would put it around my mouth , like, chloroform yourself 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Thailand is very much 100 - 50 years behind us in many ways. 

I estimate 30-50 in many areas, but agree. 

 

[Neeranam]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Wasn't he handing masks out in the street ?

I am quite sure that he wasn't wearing any gloves , besides , I wouldn't take anything from anyone and I would put it around my mouth , like, chloroform yourself 

BTS station. 

Why wear gloves, they were in plastic wrapping.

[sungod]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Oh man, riding without an helmet is Thainess? Get real ????

 

If you wish to pull my post apart, at least have the courtesy to take it in its full context with the surgical mask wearing!

[sungod]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Thais pride themselves on being non-confrontational and tolerant

Excluding the ones that attack old aged pensioners in packs of wild animals of course

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2016/05/01/hua-hin-thailand-uk-british-family-attack-cctv-thai-police/

 

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, sungod said:

If you wish to pull my post apart, at least have the courtesy to take it in its full context with the surgical mask wearing!

Surgical mask makes perfectly sense in traffic Because of pollution, as well they where forced to use masks by the authorities. I used helmet but no mask while riding, but for thais to use mask is not that complicated even before covid it was normal many cities also in villages when somebody had a cold or flu.