Thainess - a true definition?

[peterrabbit]

So the inevitable happened after the Mrs and daughter caught Covid. Two days later I came down with it and I knew, that like them, I would need Antiviral medicine to treat it especially being an "at risk" patient.

 

As you can only get these Antiviral medicines from a hospital and not a pharmacy I had to go to a hospital to get the medication. I rang Pattaya City Hospital to see if they could dispense the medication - yes they said come now.

 

So I dragged myself out of my sick bed and went to Pattaya City Hospital. I had to wait outside in the heat (with a temperature) while I went through the rigmarole of go this queue then go that queue etc until eventually I saw the doctor who told me she would prescribe antiviral medication for me as I was in the at risk group and I needed to take this medication. (I already knew this and was at the hospital as its the only place I can get it, I fully expected to pay for it but I could not get it from anywhere else but a hospital).

 

So I'm now in the queue waiting for my medication when I get called back to the doctor.

 

"sorry Mr,  Big Boss says I cannot give Antiviral medicine to Farang. Have to go Pharmacy. I write what medicine you need for you"

 

If I had not been feeling so ill and having not slept all night I would have unleashed a verbal tirade on her that would have made the galees in Soi Buakhaow blush. 

 

I was then charged 620b for some paracetamol and cough medicine I could have got at any pharmacy for far less. Then, knowing full well that I needed Antiviral medication I was sent away to go to a "pharmacy" which I already know cannot supply them.

 

So after this experience and "treatment" at the hands of a Thai Government hospital I was wondering. 

 

IS THIS THE TRUE DEFINITION OF THAINESS?

 

In order to be a "true" Thai and do what is expected of you in Thai society are Thais expected to behave towards Non Thais in this way?

 

Please Comment

 

[richard_smith237]

So soon.... 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

39 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

IS THIS THE TRUE DEFINITION OF THAINESS?

Its a definition of racism IMO.....   

[Neeranam]

47 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

So after this experience and "treatment" at the hands of a Thai Government hospital I was wondering. 

 

IS THIS THE TRUE DEFINITION OF THAINESS?

Do you pay tax here? Why do you think tourists(long term or short) should get the same treatment as citizens?

[peterrabbit]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Foreigners should have health insurance.

 

No, not racist at all. If a farang Thai was refused, then it would be racist. 

I do have health insurance, just not outpatient covers as its unaffordable here.

As I stated I fully expected to pay for it.

 

Perhaps you should fully read my post because your comments show you have not fully read it.

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, peterrabbit said:

IS THIS THE TRUE DEFINITION OF THAINESS?

no. it is a story about some doctors at a public hospital who were trying to help but probably did not know all the contingencies... and a patient who did not want to go to a more expensive private hospital where he would not have had to wait.. 

 

1 hour ago, peterrabbit said:

I would have unleashed a verbal tirade on her

Nice guy - 

[peterrabbit]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Do you pay tax here? Why do you think tourists(long term or short) should get the same treatment as citizens?

How can you make such a statement without knowing my personal circumstances. Why do you draw the obvious false conclusion that I am a tourist? 

I don't expect to get the same treatment as I Thai, I already said I expect to pay. But I do not expect to be deliberately discriminated against and deigned medication precisely because I am NOT a Thai. 

Here is the dictionary definition of racism which I think you should read:-

rac•ism

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usu. involving the idea that one's own race is superior.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based on such a doctrine.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

[peterrabbit]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

no. it is a story about some doctors at a public hospital who were trying to help but probably did not know all the contingencies... and a patient who did not want to go to a more expensive private hospital where he would not have had to wait.. 

 

Nice guy - 

I went to the government hospital because I knew they had stocks of the medicine they have given my family a few days before, if I knew they had imposed a policy of NOT dispensing it to falangs I would not have wasted my time and gone directly to a private hospital.

 

No doubt that if you are so deliberately discriminated against on the grounds of your race, the results of which could potentially threaten your life, you will not be outraged by such behaviour?   *Edited*

Edited October 24, 2022 by Scott

[Neeranam]

24 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

How can you make such a statement without knowing my personal circumstances. Why do you draw the obvious false conclusion that I am a tourist? 

I don't expect to get the same treatment as I Thai, I already said I expect to pay. But I do not expect to be deliberately discriminated against and deigned medication precisely because I am NOT a Thai. 

Here is the dictionary definition of racism which I think you should read:-

rac•ism

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usu. involving the idea that one's own race is superior.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based on such a doctrine.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Was this decision based on your race or your nationality? Jeez. 

 

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

I went to the government hospital because I knew they had stocks of the medicine they have given my family a few days before, if I knew they had imposed a policy of NOT dispensing it to falangs I would not have wasted my time and gone directly to a private hospital.

 

No doubt that if you are so deliberately discriminated against on the grounds of your race, the results of which could potentially threaten your life, you will not be outraged by such behaviour? You should be first in line for the gas chambers as you won't complain when your shoved inside.

You wasted your time, so what, accept it. You are obviously not working so have all the time in the world. 

I suggest you look up the words 'integration' and 'assimilation', and note the differences. Time has a different meaning in this country. 

Btw, do your Thai relatives work? 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Neeranam

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, peterrabbit said:

was then charged 620b for some paracetamol and cough medicine I could have got at any pharmacy for far less.

Dont buy it if price is high. Why did you pay 620 baht? Mai ao khrup paeng mahk then walk out.

 

Nobody is forced to buy cough medicine. Doesnt work much anyway.

[peterrabbit]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Was this decision based on your race or your nationality? Jeez. 

 

It was based on a racist policy which discriminates against NON Thais in the disbursement of Western produced medication to Westerners.

If you ever went to a Western Country would a Thai be discriminated against in such a manor? No they would not so why are the Thai authorities discriminating against Westerners?

Read the dictionary definition of racism!

 

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

I went to the government hospital because I knew they had stocks of the medicine they have given my family a few days before, if I knew they had imposed a policy of NOT dispensing it to falangs I would not have wasted my time and gone directly to a private hospital.

 

No doubt that if you are so deliberately discriminated against on the grounds of your race, the results of which could potentially threaten your life, you will not be outraged by such behaviour? You should be first in line for the gas chambers as you won't complain when your shoved inside.

    You were not discriminated against because of your race.  Foreigners, and Thai citizens for that matter, can be of any race.  You were turned away because the medicine was apparently only being provided to Thai nationals.  This is not racism.  It's nationalism; citizens sometimes given preferential treatment over non-citizens at government facilities. 

    It's the same thing as a national park having one price for citizens and a different price for non-citizens.  Not racist as both citizens and non-citizens can be any race--the focus is not on race, it's on citizen or non-citizen.  Now, if a national park had one price for Asian Thai citizens and higher prices for White and Black Thai citizens, that would be racist.  

[peterrabbit]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You wasted your time, so what, accept it. You are obviously not working so have all the time in the world. 

I suggest you look up the words 'integration' and 'assimilation', and note the differences. Time has a different meaning in this country. 

If you can't afford a private hospital, maybe think of alternative places to live. 

Again you have not read my post as I stated that I phoned the hospital and they told me I could get the medication there.

What facts do you have to draw the false conclusion that I can not afford a private hospital?

 

My post is to inform the genuine members of this forum about the government's policy of not dispensing life saving medicine from government hospitals to Westerners.

 

Your posts are all about undermining that message by making false claims and misleading statements.

 

YOU ARE A TROLL

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its a definition of racism IMO.....   

Foreigners should have health insurance.

 

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its a definition of racism IMO.....   

No, not racist at all. If a farang Thai was refused, then it would be racist. 

The decision seems based on him being solely non-Thai and while he was quite unwell seems wholly wrong, particularly in light of the Op being an ‘at risk patient’.

 

The Op could have paid for the medicine, which is the case in anyway. 

 

The issue isn’t that they hospital wanted to charge the Op for medication - it was they said he ‘couldn’t have any’.... 

 

While not ‘blatant racism’ as we have seen in the past elsewhere, IMO this definitely falls on the ’scale’ of receiving unequal and unfair treatment based on not being Thai... 

 

... perhaps not racist, most definitely nationalist then, but the same ‘undertones’ surface with such treatment. 

 

The one saving grace of the hospital is that they provided him with the name of a pharmacy where he could get mediation from..... (if they had it available). 

 

 

The situation is as wrong as it is bizarre and really should not happen.

 

1 hour ago, peterrabbit said:

"sorry Mr,  Big Boss says I cannot give Antiviral medicine to Farang. Have to go Pharmacy. I write what medicine you need for you"

 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, peterrabbit said:

I was then charged 620b for some paracetamol and cough medicine I could have got at any pharmacy for far less.

You are budgeting and pay this price?

 

I went to Bangkok hospital last week and asked the price of the medicine and said 'no thanks' and bought it at the mall. 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The decision seems based on him being solely non-Thai and while he was quite unwell seems wholly wrong, particularly in light of the Op being an ‘at risk patient’.

 

The Op could have paid for the medicine, which is the case in anyway. 

 

The issue isn’t that they hospital wanted to charge the Op for medication - it was they said he ‘couldn’t have any’.... 

 

While not ‘blatant racism’ as we have seen in the past elsewhere, IMO this definitely falls on the ’scale’ of receiving unequal and unfair treatment based on not being Thai... 

 

... perhaps not racist, most definitely nationalist then, but the same ‘undertones’ surface with such treatment. 

 

The one saving grace of the hospital is that they provided him with the name of a pharmacy where he could get mediation from..... (if they had it available). 

 

 

The situation is as wrong as it is bizarre and really should not happen.

 

 

Remember this is a developing country and don't have money to buy medicines like in the West. I don't see anything wrong in giving to citizens first, if there is not enough. 

I am shocked when I see many farang going to hospitals wearing Chang wife-beaters and expecting equal treatment.  

[Neeranam]

17 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

It was based on a racist policy which discriminates against NON Thais in the disbursement of Western produced medication to Westerners.

If you ever went to a Western Country would a Thai be discriminated against in such a manor? No they would not so why are the Thai authorities discriminating against Westerners?

Read the dictionary definition of racism!

 

I was charged 5,000 baht more than an Australian at Royal Melbourne Golf Club. Is this racist? 

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The decision seems based on him being solely non-Thai and while he was quite unwell seems wholly wrong, particularly in light of the Op being an ‘at risk patient’.

 

The Op could have paid for the medicine, which is the case in anyway. 

Hospital only get a certain quota of medicines like this. 

They told him where to get it, but he never went. 

[richard_smith237]

25 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Was this decision based on your race or your nationality? Jeez. 

 

Clearly it is based on his nationality that he isn’t Thai, so you are correct - the treatment was not ‘racist’....  but to deny someone quite unwell medication based on nationality is outrageous.

 

There really isn’t any moral high ground from which to defend this.

 

22 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You wasted your time, so what, accept it. You are obviously not working so have all the time in the world. 

I suggest you look up the words 'integration' and 'assimilation', and note the differences. Time has a different meaning in this country. 

Btw, do your Thai relatives work? 

I suggest you look up the words ‘human decency’ the Op was unwell and is in a high-risk group. 

 

 

For someone unwell, timing is even more important, particularly when it comes to receiving medical treatment.... your defence of the issue fails to understand this important point. 

Any extra time and effort spent when unwell is not something anyone wants to ensure, particularly when it's unnecessary.

 

The Op is quite right in his frustration - had he known that that specific hospital would not provide medication to a non-Thai he could easily have used his time more effectively and sought medical treatment at a facility that doesn’t treat non-Thai’s as second class citizens. 

 

-----------

 

It would never enter my mind that my Wife be treated any differently than I in a hospital in the UK. 

And yes, she has insurance which may likely have to pay for treatment, but to be refused medication on grounds of nationality alone would be considered outrageous and potentially illegal. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I was charged 5,000 baht more than an Australian at Royal Melbourne Golf Club. Is this racist? 

You’ve used this poorly thought out argument before (and similar ones). 

 

The answer is NO.... because he was likely a local resident... 

Had a Thai been a local resident he would receive a similar price than the Australian. 

An out of province Australian would also likely pay more than a local resident Thai. 

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

It would never enter my mind that my Wife be treated any differently than I in a hospital in the UK. 

And yes, she has insurance which may likely have to pay for treatment, but to be refused medication on grounds of nationality alone would be considered outrageous and potentially illegal. 

I understand but would you like Thailand to be like the UK and let immigrants from all over to come and get equal treatment? 

Foreigners, especially over 60 are a huge burden on the Thai health system, one reason they ask for insurance now.

Going to the cheap hospitals does work out sometimes but you can't rely on them.  Calling them racist when they can't help is very inappropriate, after all they do for farang who can't afford private. 

[peterrabbit]

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

    You were not discriminated against because of your race.  Foreigners, and Thai citizens for that matter, can be of any race.  You were turned away because the medicine was apparently only being provided to Thai nationals.  This is not racism.  It's nationalism; citizens sometimes given preferential treatment over non-citizens at government facilities. 

    It's the same thing as a national park having one price for citizens and a different price for non-citizens.  Not racist as both citizens and non-citizens can be any race--the focus is not on race, it's on citizen or non-citizen.  Now, if a national park had one price for Asian Thai citizens and higher prices for White and Black Thai citizens, that would be racist.  

In civilised countries patients are treated on a medical need basis regardless of their race or nationality. Even in wars wounded soldiers are treated on the seriousness of their medical needs and not whose side they are on.

Your statement that the government policy of denying medication to patients who are not Thai is not RACIST is false. It is totally racist as you obviously are. Racism is not just the colour of a person's skin or economic circumstances but the ethnic group that they belong to being discriminated against. 

Why don't you educate yourself on the meaning of racism so you won't make such obvious racist comments in future.

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You’ve used this poorly thought out argument before (and similar ones). 

 

The answer is NO.... because he was likely a local resident... 

Had a Thai been a local resident he would receive a similar price than the Australian. 

An out of province Australian would also likely pay more than a local resident Thai. 

 

 

Big difference -  Thais go to Australia and work, get proper visas and learn English. Pattaya is  full of illegal immigrants, getting dodgy visas from agents. 

 

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Remember this is a developing country and don't have money to buy medicines like in the West. I don't see anything wrong in giving to citizens first, if there is not enough. 

There was clearly enough - it was in the pharmacy down the road - it seems there was a policy in place not to provide ’specific’ medication to non-Thai’s.... 

... somewhat disgusting in light of the ‘international medical aid’ and donations of vaccines Thailand received through the Covid crisis. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am shocked when I see many farang going to hospitals wearing Chang wife-beaters and expecting equal treatment.  

Would you be happy IF your wife (if Thai) went to the UK and she were refused medication because she is not British ???....

 

.... Just imagine the fall out from that ???

 

You don’t see anything wrong with this because you are perhaps trying so very hard to see things in a favourable light from Thailands perspective...  trying to find some excuse or reason for such behaviour from a hospital.... 

 

.... The reality is, in any country in the world, this behaviour is completely un acceptable.

 

Its unacceptable to me where I come from. 

It should be unacceptable to anyone who lives here in Thailand. 

It should be unacceptable to any Thai that non-Thais are treated in such a manner. 

It should be unaccepted to any official that it allows such treatment of non-Thai’s.

 

It’s certainly unacceptable to me that Thailand, a country I care about can treat people so poorly.

A country that could be so much better let's itself down when behaviour like this is considered acceptable. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It would never enter my mind that my Wife be treated any differently than I in a hospital in the UK. 

And yes, she has insurance which may likely have to pay for treatment, but to be refused medication on grounds of nationality alone would be considered outrageous and potentially illegal. 

I understand but would you like Thailand to be like the UK and let immigrants from all over to come and get equal treatment? 

Foreigners, especially over 60 are a huge burden on the Thai health system, one reason they ask for insurance now.

Going to the cheap hospitals does work out sometimes but you can't rely on them.  Calling them racist when they can't help is very inappropriate, after all they do for farang who can't afford private. 

Its a delicate issue, but not one you are presenting from a balanced view point. 

 

The UK does welcome plenty of immigrations from all over the world and plenty from commonwealth nations.

The UK would also welcome my Wife, under specific financial conditions (NHS surcharge fee etc).

 

You have also distorted the issue - the Ops money paid for treatment, that treatment was not subsidised in any way..

The Op was no such burden on the medical care Thailand provides - he was a ‘paying patient’.

The Op also has insurance for in-patient care. 

The Op was refused medication based on nationality - that is wholly wrong, particularly given the circumstances as he explains it. 

 

In any society it should be considered the patients health is primary - in this case it wasn’t even money primary care playing second fiddle to money, it was something else, a policy or an opinion by a hospital ‘higher-up’.....  He needs to be dragged over the coals for such decisions IMO. 

 

 

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

There was clearly enough - it was in the pharmacy down the road - it seems there was a policy in place not to provide ’specific’ medication to non-Thai’s.... 

... somewhat disgusting in light of the ‘international medical aid’ and donations of vaccines Thailand received through the Covid crisis. 

Not to provide foreigners REDUCED priced medicine. 

Nothing wrong with this, IMHO. 

If he paid tax, that's another story. Can't you see why some Thais would have this policy? 

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Big difference -  Thais go to Australia and work, get proper visas and learn English. Pattaya is  full of illegal immigrants, getting dodgy visas from agents. 

 

If this is your argument as to why the Op was refused medication you’re not only going off on a tangent, but you are getting desperate to explain and justify something which is wholly wrong. 

 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You have also distorted the issue - the Ops money paid for treatment, that treatment was not subsidised in any way..

The Op was no such burden on the medical care Thailand provides - he was a ‘paying patient’.

He is paying , but massively reduced price. 

[peterrabbit]

36 minutes ago, newnative said:

    You were not discriminated against because of your race.  Foreigners, and Thai citizens for that matter, can be of any race.  You were turned away because the medicine was apparently only being provided to Thai nationals.  This is not racism.  It's nationalism; citizens sometimes given preferential treatment over non-citizens at government facilities. 

    It's the same thing as a national park having one price for citizens and a different price for non-citizens.  Not racist as both citizens and non-citizens can be any race--the focus is not on race, it's on citizen or non-citizen.  Now, if a national park had one price for Asian Thai citizens and higher prices for White and Black Thai citizens, that would be racist.  

Strange how history repeats itself.

Didn't Adolf Hitler, the head of the Socialist Nationalist party of Germany, constantly refer to nationalism, (for the good of Germany), as being the excuse for his barbaric and racist actions against non Germans?