Thainess - a true definition?

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

If this is your argument as to why the Op was refused medication you’re not only going off on a tangent, but you are getting desperate to explain and justify something which is wholly wrong. 

 

Just opinions. 

 

Think of it this way -  your local govt. hospital  in the UK is suddenly full of Saudi Arabian pensioners on non-immigrant status, who obviously have more many than locals but don't want to go private. They get medicine, which is hard to get and the hospital runs out. Some British pensioners can't get this medicine when it runs out and die. Is this right? It is no different to the case here. 

 

What would you think if they were told to go private and they complain about racial treatment on their expat forum. I would tell them to **** off back home. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Neeranam

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

Strange how history repeats itself.

Didn't Adolf Hitler, the head of the Socialist Nationalist party of Germany, constantly refer to nationalism, (for the good of Germany), as being the excuse for his barbaric and racist actions against non Germans?

Did he persecute only non-German Jews? Silly argument.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Not to provide foreigners REDUCED priced medicine. 

Nothing wrong with this, IMHO. 

If he paid tax, that's another story. Can't you see why some Thais would have this policy? 

The issue was not providing him ‘reduced priced medication’ it was not providing him medication at all while he was quite unwell and in a high-risk group. 

 

The Op was paying for treatment, he would have paid for medication - that is the norm in Thai hospitals.

The Op did pay for medication and it doesn’t seem ‘very reduced at all’... (B620 for paracetamol and cough medicine)... 

 

The Op was refused other medication not because it was reduced priced - but because he was not Thai and someone somewhere made a decision that the lives and well-being of Thai’s are more important than the lives of non-Thai’s.....  it is this facet of the issue which is wholly wrong. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

50 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

My post is to inform the genuine members of this forum about the government's policy of not dispensing life saving medicine from government hospitals to Westerners.

After reading a few comments in this thread it seems they didn't give you the medicine you demanded. 

That doesn't mean they don't give it to any westerners. 

Maybe they just didn't like you or your attitude. That doesn't make is racist. 

[Lacessit]

It sounds to me like there are different rules applying in the various government hospitals.

Or perhaps they have changed since I got COVID last October.

I was placed into quarantine for 14 days in Phan provincial hospital. All the medications, including antivirals, were free. The 14 days in the quarantine ward, including food, was free as well. I even got extra meds to take home with me, we were asked to isolate for 6 days after discharge.

I don't know if Thainess has anything to do with what happened to the OP.

[peterrabbit]

9 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Not to provide foreigners REDUCED priced medicine. 

Nothing wrong with this, IMHO. 

If he paid tax, that's another story. Can't you see why some Thais would have this policy? 

What proof do you have that I would be charged a reduced rate and not charged the "special falang rate" as we are for everything else? 

I would not call being charged 620b for paracetamol and cough medicine a reduced price.

 

As far as tax is concerned every time I buy anything in Thailand for my self or family I pay tax on it. In England its called Value Added Tax. Everytime I have to licence a motor vehicle or record some other legal government transaction I have to pay tax on it. So your notion that foreigners are living here totally "tax free" is absolute BS. We contribute far more in taxes to Thailand than your average Thai farmer does.

[Neeranam]

Just now, Lacessit said:

It sounds to me like there are different rules applying in the various government hospitals.

Or perhaps they have changed since I got COVID last October.

I was placed into quarantine for 14 days in Phan provincial hospital. All the medications, including antivirals, were free. The 14 days in the quarantine ward, including food, was free as well. I even got extra meds to take home with me, we were asked to isolate for 6 days after discharge.

I don't know if Thainess has anything to do with what happened to the OP.

I am Thai and was refused a vaccine in Khon Kaen when foreigners could get it. This is because I don't have a visa in my British passport. Works both ways. 

 

Maybe the OP was wearing inappropriate clothes, shouting demanding his rights, etc. We don't know if others would be refused medicine. Maybe he couldn't speak Thai, we don't know. 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Just opinions. 

 

Think of it this way -  your local govt. hospital  in the UK is suddenly full of Saudi Arabian pensioners on non-immigrant status, who obviously have more many than locals but don't want to go private. They get medicine, which is hard to get and the hospital runs out. Some British pensioners can't get this medicine when it runs out and die. Is this right? It is no different to the case here. 

 

A strong argument, but a strawman fallacy nonetheless, for this is not what is happening here or in the UK.... 

The hospitals in Thailand are not and have not been over-run with expats seeking medical care. 

Non-Thai’s are not a burden on the Thai Economy or healthcare systems by any stretch of the imagination. 

 

Pre-Covid: Medical Tourism generated US$140 billion. 

In 2019 foreign tourists failed to pay US$ 300 million in bills. 

In 2018 there were 39.8 million foreign tourists.... 

>>> thats 7.5 Baht per tourist burden.... (in 2019).

 

The argument, while emotive and used by Thailand politicians just doesn’t hold any mathematical strength whatsoever....

 

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

What would you think if they were told to go private and they complain about racial treatment on their expat forum. I would tell them to **** off back home. 

And I’d be racist in doing so... Particularly to the ones who’d lived there, paid tax and contributed to the local economy etc...  I’d be embarrassed to paint all with the same brush.... 

 

That said, I do understand your point it perhaps rings a ’them and us’ bell in all of us, perhaps an instinct from ’neanderthal times’ when protecting ourselves from other packs of hunter gatherers...  we’ve moved on... but some underlying attitudes seem not to have. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BangkokReady]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am Thai

Are your parents Thai?

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, peterrabbit said:

What proof do you have that I would be charged a reduced rate and not charged the "special falang rate" as we are for everything else? 

I would not call being charged 620b for paracetamol and cough medicine a reduced price.

 

As far as tax is concerned every time I buy anything in Thailand for my self or family I pay tax on it. In England its called Value Added Tax. Everytime I have to licence a motor vehicle or record some other legal government transaction I have to pay tax on it. So your notion that foreigners are living here totally "tax free" is absolute BS. We contribute far more in taxes to Thailand than your average Thai farmer does.

How the Thai tax system works is frankly nothing to do with you. 

There are exceptions for everyone, including farang. This is similar to the UK and tax allowances. 

You pay tax on your pension outside Thailand and expect equal treatment to Thais who pay tax, or are exempt, like poor farmers. I don't like your attitude and is my last word for now on the matter. 

 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I am Thai and was refused a vaccine in Khon Kaen when foreigners could get it. This is because I don't have a visa in my British passport. Works both ways. 

 

Maybe the OP was wearing inappropriate clothes, shouting demanding his rights, etc. We don't know if others would be refused medicine. Maybe he couldn't speak Thai, we don't know. 

I got two free vaccines in Chiang Rai, Sinovac and AZ. I did have to push somewhat (politely) to get them, I must have been the only foreigner among thousands of Thais at Big C.

I was refused a booster in February ( Pfizer ) got it free at the village clinic instead. I did not mention I had had COVID, which was the basis of refusal in Chiang Rai.

[Adumbration]

Why did you go to the hospital in the first place.  You knew what drug you were after.  Why not just check proper dosage on google and then go straight to the pharmacy and buy it.

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am Thai and was refused a vaccine in Khon Kaen when foreigners could get it. This is because I don't have a visa in my British passport. Works both ways. 

I too was vaccinated early on, a few days before my Wife and Mother and Father in Law.

No one checked my Visa at all.... (I used the info on the front and back of my Pink ID to register). 

 

You could have registered with your Thai ID...  OR are you suggesting that in Khon Kaen non-Thai’s were receiving their vaccinations before Thai’s ???? - IF so, thats the first I’ve heard of it.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Maybe the OP was wearing inappropriate clothes, shouting demanding his rights, etc. We don't know if others would be refused medicine. Maybe he couldn't speak Thai,

You're reaching and projecting to exaggerated behaviour to justify poor treatment of someone in medical need. 

 

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

we don't know. 

From the Op we do know he was refused medication he needed - that is wrong. 

(and yes, it appears he did need it because he was given a prescription to go elsewhere and get it). 

 

 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

Are your parents Thai?

No. I fail to see why their nationality is relevant to my NOT getting a vaccine, as a Thai citizen before, or even at the same time as foreigners.

[473geo]

I would guess the supplies of anti viral to the hospital were proving inadequate and no certainty of further delivery

The intention of the hospital was to provide an alternative supplier which they did 

OP does not say if the alternative was in possession of drugs list hospital provided

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Why did you go to the hospital in the first place.  You knew what drug you were after.  Why not just check proper dosage on google and then go straight to the pharmacy and buy it.

Trying to benefit from cheap, govt. subsidized medications meant for poor people. 

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, peterrabbit said:

I went to the government hospital because I knew they had stocks of the medicine they have given my family a few days before, if I knew they had imposed a policy of NOT dispensing it to falangs I would not have wasted my time and gone directly to a private hospital.

 

No doubt that if you are so deliberately discriminated against on the grounds of your race, the results of which could potentially threaten your life, you will not be outraged by such behaviour? You should be first in line for the gas chambers as you won't complain when your shoved inside.

"Thainess" is what has resulted from Thaification:

 

Thaification - Wikipedia

Thainess - Wikipedia

 

Not much place for foreigners, of any ethnicity, within it.

 

Many paying guests in Thailand prefer to live in everyday denial of it.

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Neeranam said:

3 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Are your parents Thai?

No. I fail to see why their nationality is relevant to my NOT getting a vaccine, as a Thai citizen before, or even at the same time as foreigners.

Agreed....  The nationality of Neeranams parents is irrelevant. 

 

In this case the nationality Neeranam and the Op is irrelevant, or rather it should have been irrelevant. 

The Op was treated at hospital and refused medication because of his nationality - this is very wrong. 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, 473geo said:

I would guess the supplies of anti viral to the hospital were proving inadequate and no certainty of further delivery

The intention of the hospital was to provide an alternative supplier which they did 

OP does not say if the alternative was in possession of drugs list hospital provided

A valid point....  The Op also states he was quite unwell.... 

 

I can’t compare covid because my case was extremely mild. 

Years ago I had a case of influenza and I couldn’t make it out of bed....  So, if the Op felt anything like that, getting to a hospital in the first place just a lot of horrible effort....   then to be sent elsewhere for medication for such a spurious and unfair reason seems just wrong....  

 

...I think anyone would be justifiably annoyed at this. 

[BangkokReady]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

No.

 

as a Thai citizen

Ah, I understand.  You have Thai citizenship.  I thought you meant you were actually Thai.

 

Do you believe that if you were in the situation that the OP found themselves in you would have been given the medicine?  Or would they still say "the boss says we cannot give it to a farang"?   Obviously even with citizenship, they will still view you as a "farang".

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I too was vaccinated early on, a few days before my Wife and Mother and Father in Law.

No one checked my Visa at all.... (I used the info on the front and back of my Pink ID to register). 

 

You could have registered with your Thai ID...  OR are you suggesting that in Khon Kaen non-Thai’s were receiving their vaccinations before Thai’s ???? - IF so, thats the first I’ve heard of it.

There were certain hospitals, including Bangkok Hospital that gave some of the vaccines to foreigners before Thais.

I couldn't register, they asked for visa. 

I could initially get the Sinovac or Astra by showing Thai ID but I didn't want it. I waited for Pfizer or  Moderna and foreigners could get it first. I did get it a month later. 

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

In this case the nationality Neeranam and the Op is irrelevant, or rather it should have been irrelevant. 

The Op was treated at hospital and refused medication because of his nationality - this is very wrong. 

Except we are the same race. I would have got the medicine and he didn't, so it can't be racial. 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

8 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Why did you go to the hospital in the first place.  You knew what drug you were after.  Why not just check proper dosage on google and then go straight to the pharmacy and buy it.

Trying to benefit from cheap, govt. subsidized medications meant for poor people. 

The local Pharmacy is always cheaper than the hospital Pharmacy and the Op was paying for his treatment and Medication. 

 

The op has quoted the cost of the paracetamol and Cough Medicine was B620.....   

 

Thus, Neeranam... you are distorting information - there was nothing subsidised about the Ops visit, unless of course you have information that the medication the Op needed which was rejected was subsidised....

 

..... and, I could be wrong, but my guess is the Op was prescribed Favipiravir (antiviral) which is a very common medication, has been around for a long time and is very cheap.

Neither is Favipiravir in short supply either.

 

 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Ah, I understand.  You have Thai citizenship.  I thought you meant you were actually Thai.

I am Thai, it says that on my passport and my ID card. 

I can buy land, etc, what are you on about?

 

[BangkokReady]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The nationality of Neeranams parents is irrelevant. 

In a situation where someone is saying "As a Thai...", but you suspect that they are not Thai, but a foreigner with Thai citizenship, the fact of their parents being Thai or not are a quick and easy way of confirming.  So very relevant.

[Neeranam]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

The local Pharmacy is always cheaper than the hospital Pharmacy and the Op was paying for his treatment and Medication. 

Not when I went, as a foreigner, to Khon Kaen hospital over many years.

Sometimes I didn't use my insurance as it was so cheap. 

 

[BangkokReady]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

I am Thai, it says that on my passport and my ID card. 

I can buy land, etc, what are you on about?

I'm not sure what you mean.  You are a foreigner with Thai citizenship, not a Thai.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

In a situation where someone is saying "As a Thai...", but you suspect that they are not Thai, but a foreigner with Thai citizenship, the fact of their parents being Thai or not are a quick and easy way of confirming.  So very relevant.

I said, 'as a Thai citizen". Stop hijacking the thread lol

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I too was vaccinated early on, a few days before my Wife and Mother and Father in Law.

No one checked my Visa at all.... (I used the info on the front and back of my Pink ID to register). 

 

You could have registered with your Thai ID...  OR are you suggesting that in Khon Kaen non-Thai’s were receiving their vaccinations before Thai’s ???? - IF so, thats the first I’ve heard of it.

Expand  

There were certain hospitals, including Bangkok Hospital that gave some of the vaccines to foreigners before Thais.

I couldn't register, they asked for visa. 

I could initially get the Sinovac or Astra by showing Thai ID but I didn't want it.

Ah.. that changes the landscape of your comment somewhat... 

 

I received Astra Zeneca...  as did my Wife and Brother in Law.

Mother and Father In Law received Sinovac (all within the same week)..... 

 

There really wasn’t any availability of anything else until much later.

 

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I waited for Pfizer or  Moderna and foreigners could get it first. I did get it a month later. 

That's definitely unfair then....  extremely clumsy and wholly wrong to differentiate between anyone. 

 

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, BangkokReady said:

I'm not sure what you mean.  You are a foreigner with Thai citizenship, not a Thai.

I am not a foreigner.