HYDROGEN cars are here ! - Hyundai

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[Orinoco]

I reckon this will be the way it will all go in the next 10-20 years.

not the stop gap that's being sold at present as the be and end all of motoring.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Orinoco

[KhunLA]

Hydrogen cars ????

... not practical in our lifetime.

[Boomer6969]

44 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

I reckon this will be the way it will all go in the next 10-20 years.

not the stop gap that's being sold at present as the be and end all of motoring.

Agree totally, Hybrid is just expensive nonsense, ineffective with regards to carbon footprint.

[Orinoco]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Hydrogen cars ????

... not practical in our lifetime.

I had no idea you are a scientist. 

Good to see a nice cross section of the community on Asean now. 

[KhunLA]

During the 'Who killed electric car?' movie, the hydro was pushed as an alternative to BEV, or whatever version in the movie it was about.  Arnold pushing it, and given one of course for is efforts, I think.

 

So almost 30 yrs after that very successful EV, and 15+ yrs after the movie, the hydro cell car has progress to .....  a big nothing.

 

Appears this little country of 1/5 the population has more EV CS, than hydro cell stations in the USA.   Maybe they are only produced for local driving ????

 

Having a 3-400 mile range, best to stay local, as shown by the 300 mile diameter circle overlay.  Just a few spots missing any stations ????

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by KhunLA

[Orinoco]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

During the 'Who killed electric car?' movie, the hydro was pushed as an alternative to BEV, or whatever version in the movie it was about.  Arnold pushing it, and given one of course for is efforts, I think.

 

So almost 30 yrs after that very successful EV, and 15+ yrs after the movie, the hydro cell car has progress to .....  a big nothing.

 

Appears this little country of 1/5 the population has more EV CS, than hydro cell stations in the USA.   Maybe they are only produced for local driving ????

 

Having a 3-400 mile range, best to stay local, as shown by the 300 mile diameter circle overlay.  Just a few spots missing any stations ????

 

You just hate the idea of it. ( we have all seen your behavior on the ev thread )

Hydro will be produced at your homes.  it's one of the ways forward. 

Good day 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

Can't wait for the Benz-Hindenburg.

Oh, the humanity!

[Gweiloman]

6 hours ago, Orinoco said:

I reckon this will be the way it will all go in the next 10-20 years.

not the stop gap that's being sold at present as the be and end all of motoring.

 

 

Hydrogen may be the future in 10-20 yrs. But I can’t wait that long so in the meantime, I will happily settle for free solar energy to power my car.

[Daffy D]

Wasn't that long ago everyone was falling over themselves getting Gas conversions to their cars.

 

Technology can move faster than you think 

 

[Orinoco]

24 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Hydrogen may be the future in 10-20 yrs. But I can’t wait that long so in the meantime, I will happily settle for free solar energy to power my car.

Free, well done, I had no idea that was a true reality.

 

[seedy]

4 hours ago, Orinoco said:

Free, well done, I had no idea that was a true reality.

 

It is not - only in the minds of the Faithful.

Pay 350,000 THB and get free electricity - what is wrong with this picture ?

And electric rates have already started to rise for EV charging around the world.

Think power companies are fools ? If there is a market they will profit from it.

[richard_smith237]

Just now, seedy said:

And electric rates have already started to rise for EV charging around the world.

Think power companies are fools ? If there is a market they will profit from it.

Agreed....   EV’s are no more environmentally friendly than the ICE vehicles...  Worse perhaps. 

 

But, they do move emissions from the built up area’s, but thats about all they do. 

 

Batteries are the issue of course. 

 

All EV’s will achieve is to increase the electricity bills everyone (even those without vehicles), then what ???....  more people will turn to natural gas to heat their homes !!!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Orinoco]

10 minutes ago, seedy said:

And electric rates have already started to rise for EV charging around the world.

Big silence from the converted on this one. 

Laugh I nearly bought an Ev . Not 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Orinoco

[KhunLA]

36 minutes ago, seedy said:

It is not - only in the minds of the Faithful.

Pay 350,000 THB and get free electricity - what is wrong with this picture ?

And electric rates have already started to rise for EV charging around the world.

Think power companies are fools ? If there is a market they will profit from it.

Our EV will be charged by solar, from home.  Free, yes, as have the solar system, and it will just be excess that isn't needed for the house.  When at home, won't really be driving more than 20 ish kms a day, if that, unless a local O&A (<300 kms r/t).  Then still it will be charged at home from solar.

 

Around town, the car's 50kW battery good for 350 ish kms, if just 1/10 or 35 kms, that 1/10 of 50kW is use, then all of 5kW.   Pretty sure there is a spare 5kw on the system daily.  On a partly cloudy day, it produced 50kW, and we only need 30kw if 'everything' is on, both AC's all day & cooking.   

 

With 20 excess available to be fed back to grid if wanting.  OK not now.  Or use 5kw of excess for the car.  Hmm ... let me think about that ... 

 

It not rocket science... just basic math, don't hurt yourself

 

blue/production, red/consumption

https://aseannow.com/topic/1268214-solar-8kw-hybrid-inverter-w10kwh-essbattery-not-diy/page/2/#comment-17624478

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by KhunLA

[3NUMBAS]

hydrogen gas fill up point in wales UK

 

[3NUMBAS]

the king and a hrydo car

[Gweiloman]

49 minutes ago, seedy said:

It is not - only in the minds of the Faithful.

Pay 350,000 THB and get free electricity - what is wrong with this picture ?

And electric rates have already started to rise for EV charging around the world.

Think power companies are fools ? If there is a market they will profit from it.

I’m surprised that until now, you still can’t get it into your head that no one installs solar energy just to charge up their cars. I installed solar power in order to reduce my electricity costs. And like you said, electric rates are starting to rise which makes solar energy even more of a no brainer and will improve my ROI.  My only regret is that I waited a few years before installing my system.

 

During the day, I am producing more than I’m using. So instead of just losing it, I can use the excess to charge. Sort of like regenerative braking, get it?

 

 

[Gweiloman]

48 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

Big silence from the converted on this one. 

Laugh I nearly bought an Ev . Not 

 

 

As electricity rates rise, the case for solar gets stronger and stronger. Petrol prices will also rise, given the current situation in the world today.

A very fuel efficient ICE (20km/l) costs 175 baht per 100 km. An EV/PHEV will cost only 50 baht (TOU) or FOC if you have excess solar. As a bean counter, this makes economic sense to me.

 

Re: hydrogen, it costs about US$80 for 6 kgs, almost 3 times the price of petrol in the US for the same distance covered.

 

P/s: I’m giving courses in business administration and cost and financial accounting, in case anyone’s interested.

 

[Gweiloman]

37 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

hydrogen gas fill up point in wales UK

 

There are about 11-12 hydrogen fill up points in the UK at the moment. Talk about range anxiety ????.

 

 

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed....   EV’s are no more environmentally friendly than the ICE vehicles...  Worse perhaps. 

 

But, they do move emissions from the built up area’s, but thats about all they do. 

 

Batteries are the issue of course. 

 

All EV’s will achieve is to increase the electricity bills everyone (even those without vehicles), then what ???....  more people will turn to natural gas to heat their homes !!!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m not factoring environmental matters in my purchase. That’s a different debate entirely. Having said that, I do hate following a diesel belching pickup here in Thailand, especially if I have my windows down.

 

You really think that EVs will consume so much electricity that it will move the price of electricity?  Brush the dust off your calculator. And I don’t heat my home here in Thailand.

[seedy]

12 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

P/s: I’m giving courses in business administration and cost and financial accounting, in case anyone’s interested.

Wow - and you do not know what 'Free' means ...

Makes no difference if you power your car from excess solar - it still ain't 'Free'

Free is where the solar companies come to your house, install the panels, do the wiring, charge controller, etc, and leave without you having to pay one baht

That's Free

But the Musk-o-vites will NEVER admit that they're wrong, that solar panels are a no go for the vast majority of people who wish to have EV's - those that live in condos, apartments, in the city where EV make sense.

Only rich white people, patting themselves on the back, saying how smart they are, building Eco houses which are not eco, getting free electricity which is not free, and gloating at the rest of the population.

As evidenced in the many EV forums across the WWW

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, seedy said:

Wow - and you do not know what 'Free' means ...

Makes no difference if you power your car from excess solar - it still ain't 'Free'

OK, though after ROI is realized, for me, probably 5 yrs w/EV, using the solar along with the house.  Components will last 20+ yrs, hopefully.   Aside from all the FREE energy for 15+ yrs, let's go with your version.

 

Fill up with petrol, about ฿1500+ baht with E85, not more expensive 91, so add 10%

 

Fill up with electric (<฿5 X 50kW) <฿250 baht

 

That's without a TOU meter, which would cut that cost in half.

EV doesn't need oil change every 10k kms (฿2000)

Filters changed (฿1000)

Tune-up ?

Belt changes, inc. timing belt ?

 

You really can't compare the operating cost of an ICE vs EV

My #s are for MG ZS ICE vs EV, since I own.

 

Buy in with the MG EP, same specs, but ฿180k cheaper, and about the same price as the top end of a couple most popular cars bought in TH.  So buy in, is about the same, even more savings over life of car.  EV drivetrain should last longer with very little maintenance. 

 

IF you are impatient, and on the road 300+ kms everyday ... Or can't charge at home, then maybe the EV isn't for you.  Only 2 things I can't thing of to deter owning an EV.

 

Even if on the road, or have to top up on the road, at ฿7.5 / kW X 50kW is only ฿375 vs ฿1500+

 

Your money, do as you please, but I prefer to spend it on me & mine, instead of giving it to Big Oil.   And the AQI is probably just a wee bit healthier.

 

UP2U

Edited October 28, 2022 by KhunLA

[richard_smith237]

16 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

You really think that EVs will consume so much electricity that it will move the price of electricity?  Brush the dust off your calculator. And I don’t heat my home here in Thailand.

I do....   The ‘energy companies’ will find a way to make their money.

The government will find a way to recover the tax revenue lost from sales of petrol.

 

There will be a requirement for improvement to the electrical infrastructure, those costs will be passed onto the customer. 

 

I’m under no illusion that the current cost of charging of EV’s will remain the same...  I fully expect that the in the future cost of charging and running an EV will be similar to that of running a car on Petrol. 

 

 

[Gweiloman]

32 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I do....   The ‘energy companies’ will find a way to make their money.

The government will find a way to recover the tax revenue lost from sales of petrol.

 

There will be a requirement for improvement to the electrical infrastructure, those costs will be passed onto the customer. 

 

I’m under no illusion that the current cost of charging of EV’s will remain the same...  I fully expect that the in the future cost of charging and running an EV will be similar to that of running a car on Petrol. 

 

 

I doubt it. EV charging will only ever be a tiny fraction of overall electricity consumption. Many households consume over 1,000 kWh per month.

[Gweiloman]

4 hours ago, seedy said:

Wow - and you do not know what 'Free' means ...

Makes no difference if you power your car from excess solar - it still ain't 'Free'

Free is where the solar companies come to your house, install the panels, do the wiring, charge controller, etc, and leave without you having to pay one baht

That's Free

But the Musk-o-vites will NEVER admit that they're wrong, that solar panels are a no go for the vast majority of people who wish to have EV's - those that live in condos, apartments, in the city where EV make sense.

Only rich white people, patting themselves on the back, saying how smart they are, building Eco houses which are not eco, getting free electricity which is not free, and gloating at the rest of the population.

As evidenced in the many EV forums across the WWW

My solar installation is a sunk cost and will be amortised over a certain number of years, according to GAAP standards.

 

Any further benefits that I derive is, in my assessment, free.

[seedy]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

My solar installation is a sunk cost and will be amortised over a certain number of years, according to GAAP standards.

 

Any further benefits that I derive is, in my assessment, free.

So ... it is NOT 'Free'

 

am·or·tize

verb

past tense: amortised; past participle: amortised

1. gradually write off the initial cost of (an asset) over a period.

   "they want to amortize the tooling costs quickly"

   • reduce or pay off (a debt) with regular payments.

     "loan fees can be amortized over the life of the mortgage"

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I doubt it. EV charging will only ever be a tiny fraction of overall electricity consumption. Many households consume over 1,000 kWh per month.

The average car drives 13,500 miles (21,700 km per year) = roughly 1800 km per month.

The average EV consumes 0.2kWh/km (source for that info below). 

 

Thus: per month an Average EV consumes 360kwh.

 

As you mentioned: household consumption of 1,000 kWh per month... thus the average EV adds 36% to the average household. 

 

I know figures will vary...  this seems more than a tiny fraction.... 

 

 

 

 

https://www.virta.global/blog/ev-charging-101-how-much-electricity-does-an-electric-car-use

 

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

The average car drives 13,500 miles (21,700 km per year) = roughly 1800 km per month.

The average EV consumes 0.2kWh/km (source for that info below). 

 

Thus: per month an Average EV consumes 360kwh.

 

As you mentioned: household consumption of 1,000 kWh per month... thus the average EV adds 36% to the average household. 

 

I know figures will vary...  this seems more than a tiny fraction.... 

 

 

 

 

https://www.virta.global/blog/ev-charging-101-how-much-electricity-does-an-electric-car-use

 

360kWh per household would be a lot if every household had an EV (of course this would be offset by free sunlight but that’s another discussion). Of course not everyone in the foreseeable future will have an EV. But if you read carefully what I wrote, I said it would only be a fraction of overall consumption. Businesses and factories consume a huge amount. So imo, EV charging will only be a fraction of overall consumption and will not affect the price of electricity in any significant manner.

[tgw]

On 10/27/2022 at 1:51 AM, KhunLA said:

Hydrogen cars ????

... not practical in our lifetime.

hydrogen cars are the future, because Hydrogen can be produced without using electricity in the process (aluminium - gallium process).

car manufacturers need to agree on standardized fuel cell formats.