UK Immigration problem

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

It was quite obvious you were trying to say that an increase less than it should be is not a cutback in your view.

People should be grateful for any increase, why should inflation come into it.

The 51 Billion GBP funding  increase has been over the last 12 years , nothing to do with inflation 

[DaLa]

30 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Funding for the N.H.S has increased by 51 Billion Pounds since 2010 and staff increased by 200 000 people . 

So easy to confuse ‘cuts’ with an increase. If I could have a pound for every time I have read about Tory cuts to the NHS, I'd be able to fund a new hospital. 

 

Between 2009/10 and 2018/19 health spending increased by an average of just 1.5% per year in real terms.

Between 2021/22 and 2024/25, total health spending will rise on average by 3.8 per cent a year in real terms.

 

Source: \\https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/positions/nhs-funding

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, Black Ops said:

 

I wonder how homeless people feel seeing new arrivals treated like this .

   Sleeping on the streets in the freezing cold , possibly putting your life on the line by serving your Country in the military and these people who have just arrived in a boat being taken to nice accommodation .

   One ex army guy fire bombed one of the refugee places and then committed suicide recently 

[BritManToo]

59 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Tories came in 2010, the brexit vote was in 2016

Are you really trying to disagree with my original point that brexit came about under tory rule.

"None of the Tories ever wanted to leave"

That statement reinforces my point, when a party votes for something they do not want, they shouldn't be in government.

It was the British voters that voted to leave the EU, not Tory MPs. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

 

 

 

Channel crossings: Albanian migrants recruited to the UK by gangs

 

The BBC has heard evidence that Albanian drug gangs are using the migrant camps of northern France as a recruitment ground, offering to pay the passage of those prepared to work in the UK drugs industry on arrival.

Albanians account for around a third of the almost 40,000 people who have arrived in small boats so far this year, according to UK government figures.

Senior police and immigration officials on both sides of the Channel are worried by the growing role of Albanian middlemen in facilitating crossings.

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

It was the British voters that voted to leave the EU, not Tory MPs. 

The referendum was advisory.  MPs could have, and should have, done what was right for the future of the country, and not invoked Article 50, rather than slavishly follow the wishes of 52% of the gullible and misled British public.  That's what they're elected to do.

[andersonat]

On 11/3/2022 at 3:47 PM, DezLez said:

Too many people (especially the left/woke) just see the word "migrant" and say OMG we must let them in to the UK (or wherever) but forget that only "legal Immigrants" and "bona fide"  refugees should be allowed to stay. 

 

The Bona Fide refugees are supposed to seek refuge (under International law) in the first country they enter after "fleeing" their home country so very few should end up in the UK!

 

The rest of the illegal scroungers, draft dodgers, criminals etc should be returned to their native country ASAP or safely prevented, if possible, from landing in the first place!  

 

 

 

D-L,

 

You made a bold statement that "refugees are supposed to seek refuge (under International law) in the first country they enter after "fleeing" their home country".

 

 -- I will make a similarly bold statement: what you wrote is not actually true.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

The referendum was advisory.  MPs could have, and should have, done what was right for the future of the country, and not invoked Article 50, rather than slavishly follow the wishes of 52% of the gullible and misled British public.  That's what they're elected to do.

No, MP's are elected to serve the people and those M.P's who refused to listen to their constituents were voted out of office .

   They are elected to follow the will of the people , not the other way around .

[brewsterbudgen]

18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, MP's are elected to serve the people and those M.P's who refused to listen to their constituents were voted out of office .

   They are elected to follow the will of the people , not the other way around .

That's not how the British parliamentary system works.  MPs vote according to their conscience.  They can always be voted out by the electors in their constituency at the next election.

[partington]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, MP's are elected to serve the people and those M.P's who refused to listen to their constituents were voted out of office .

   They are elected to follow the will of the people , not the other way around .

No they aren't.  The UK is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. This means that people vote for MPs who then take independent decisions in government.

 

This is a structure that has evolved to deal with the inescapable truth that most people are ill-informed, prone to short term actions which directly benefit them and not the country as a whole, and lack essential economic, scientific or ethical understanding to adequately determine the best course of action for a country's long term benefit.

 

"At its most basic level, direct democracy means involving the public directly in making decisions. By contrast, representative democracy involves the public choosing representatives, who take these decisions on their behalf. [..]

 

The political thinker Edmund Burke (1729-1797) is one of the most well-known defenders of representative democracy. His view, that elected representatives should not be bound to obey the particular wishes of their electors but should form their own judgements (though be open to hearing and taking into account the views of those on whose behalf they govern), remains influential to this day."

https://consoc.org.uk/the-constitution-explained/direct-democracy/

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

That's not how the British parliamentary system works.  MPs vote according to their conscience.  They can always be voted out by the electors in their constituency at the next election.

Well , there's no one rule for everyone , MP's vote for what they want to vote for .

   They can either listen to their electorate or ignore their electorate and yes, ignoring their electorate and they will probably lose their job at the next elections , as many found out .

[vinny41]

48 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The referendum was advisory.  MPs could have, and should have, done what was right for the future of the country, and not invoked Article 50, rather than slavishly follow the wishes of 52% of the gullible and misled British public.  That's what they're elected to do.

So if the Remain vote had been 52% and  the MP's decided we are going to ignore the remain vote and invoke Article 50 the remainers would have accepted that

[brewsterbudgen]

54 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

So if the Remain vote had been 52% and  the MP's decided we are going to ignore the remain vote and invoke Article 50 the remainers would have accepted that

Of course not, but MPs could have done it has there been the political will to do so.  Calling the referendum in an attempt to unite the Tory party was the mistake that Cameron will regret to his dying day and will never be forgiven for.

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Of course not, but MPs could have done it has there been the political will to do so.  Calling the referendum in an attempt to unite the Tory party was the mistake that Cameron will regret to his dying day and will never be forgiven for.

The referendum wasn't an attempt to unite the Tory party , a fair percentage of Tory's wanted to Remain .

   You cannot re write history and pretend Brexit is a Conservative thing , it was Labour supporters who voted Conservative that got Brexit done .

   The referendum was a single issue vote and it crossed party lines with people on both sides (Labour and Conservative)on either side of the Brexit vote .

   Had Cameron not called a referendum, Farage could have been the next UK PM

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Of course not, but MPs could have done it has there been the political will to do so.  Calling the referendum in an attempt to unite the Tory party was the mistake that Cameron will regret to his dying day and will never be forgiven for.

Likewise The Labour Party will never be forgiven for their open door policy

Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million immigrants, more than twice the population of Birmingham. 

If it wasn't for Labour open door policy there might not have been a  referendum in 2016

[brewsterbudgen]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The referendum wasn't an attempt to unite the Tory party , a fair percentage of Tory's wanted to Remain .

   You cannot re write history and pretend Brexit is a Conservative thing , it was Labour supporters who voted Conservative that got Brexit done .

   The referendum was a single issue vote and it crossed party lines with people on both sides (Labour and Conservative)on either side of the Brexit vote .

   Had Cameron not called a referendum, Farage could have been the next UK PM

Yes, Brexit wasn't a party political issue, but Cameron called the referendum when he didn't have to.  Had he not, it may well have led to a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn, who despite being anti-EU, would never have called a referendum.  Farage would never have won, but he might have wiped out the Tories.

 

Anyway, it's all history now and maybe off topic.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Yes, Brexit wasn't a party political issue, but Cameron called the referendum when he didn't have to.  Had he not, it may well have led to a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn, who despite being anti-EU, would never have called a referendum.  Farage would never have won, but he might have wiped out the Tories.

 

Anyway, it's all history now and maybe off topic.

It was what the British people wanted though .

The people were campaigning to leave the E.U  and Cameroon gave them a vote on it , seems he was expecting a Remain vote and that would silence the leavers once and for all , but the vote went the other way 

[vinny41]

I find it bizarre that people think that MPs should vote according to their conscience and ignore the majority vote if Leave won but shouldn't vote according to their conscience and ignore the majority vote if remain won

imagine if everyone that bought their lottery tickets but didn't win were able to get a refund on their lottery ticket

they would be as happy as larry I am not sure the wining ticket holder would be happy when informed that they have won their original ticket price

Edited November 4, 2022 by vinny41
add

[Slip]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Of course not, but MPs could have done it has there been the political will to do so.  Calling the referendum in an attempt to unite the Tory party was the mistake that Cameron will regret to his dying day and will never be forgiven for.

Agreed.  It's starting to look like this craven decision may have been the touch paper that leads to the destruction of the Conservative party for the foreseeable future.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Slip said:

Agreed.  It's starting to look like this craven decision may have been the touch paper that leads to the destruction of the Conservative party for the foreseeable future.

The British public are aware that it was the British people who voted for Brexit and it wasn't the Conservative manifesto . 

   The U.K has moved on from Brexit and the popularity of the Political parties will depend on their current  performance 

[Slip]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The British public are aware that it was the British people who voted for Brexit and it wasn't the Conservative manifesto . 

   The U.K has moved on from Brexit and the popularity of the Political parties will depend on their current  performance 

In your opinion presumably?  Don't give up.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Yes, Brexit wasn't a party political issue, but Cameron called the referendum when he didn't have to.  Had he not, it may well have led to a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn, who despite being anti-EU, would never have called a referendum.  Farage would never have won, but he might have wiped out the Tories.

 

Anyway, it's all history now and maybe off topic.

There would never been a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn in power as there was a huge group inside the labour party working to ensure that Labour with Jeremy Corbyn as leader didn't win

 

Anti-Corbyn Labour officials worked to lose general election to oust leader, leaked dossier finds

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, Slip said:

In your opinion presumably?  Don't give up.

Dont give up the dream that the British public will change their mind and want another referendum and vote in Labour and  re-join the E.U and Corbyn will become P.M, because its just not going to happen .

   Once in  a life time vote , was what it was 

[brewsterbudgen]

9 hours ago, vinny41 said:

There would never been a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn in power as there was a huge group inside the labour party working to ensure that Labour with Jeremy Corbyn as leader didn't win

 

Anti-Corbyn Labour officials worked to lose general election to oust leader, leaked dossier finds

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leak-report-corbyn-election-whatsapp-antisemitism-tories-yougov-poll-a9462456.html

Unfortunately, you're almost certainly right about that.  I guess we'll have to put up with Starmer.

[Chomper Higgot]

15 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Funding for the N.H.S has increased by 51 Billion Pounds since 2010 and staff increased by 200 000 people . 

This needs a bit of clarification.

 

The Tories have not handed the NHS an extra £51Billion, they’ve increased NHS budgets with while mandating that the new funding must be used to outsource the supply of goods and services (back door privatization).

 

Tge money has also included the billions wasted on the purchase via Tory chums if useless PPE and the failed Track and Trace fiasco.

 

Please provide a link for 200,000 more staff.

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, Slip said:

Agreed.  It's starting to look like this craven decision may have been the touch paper that leads to the destruction of the Conservative party for the foreseeable future.

Cameron was trying to save the Tory party from the Nigel Farage white supremacist movement. It gave the Conservatives another 8 years in power.

 

But it was the UK voting population that voted for Brexit, not any political party, not any MPs. The MPs and political parties all wanted to stay and take their turns at the gigantic feeding trough which is the EU.

Edited November 5, 2022 by BritManToo

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Cameron was trying to save the Tory party from the Nigel Farage white supremacist movement. It gave the Conservatives another 8 years in power.

 

But it was the UK voting population that voted for Brexit, not any political party, not any MPs. The MPs and political parties all wanted to stay and take their turns at the gigantic feeding trough which is the EU.

He trying to save the Tory Party from splitting, Farage with insider help took advantage of that split.

 

Tge split still remains which is what’s behind the inability of the Tories to Govern.

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

It was the British voters that voted to leave the EU, not Tory MPs. 

I don't remember the British voters voting the referendum bill through parliament, must have missed that bit.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

I don't remember the British voters voting the referendum bill through parliament, must have missed that bit.

Sounds to me you're just a bad loser.

The people voted and your side lost, I call this democracy.

Brexit happened, get over it.

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Sounds to me you're just a bad loser.

The people voted and your side lost, I call this democracy.

Brexit happened, get over it.

Actually everyone in the UK lost and are still losing.

 

There have been zero tangible benefits of Brexit and very many continuing negative impacts.