5 people are killed, at least 18 injured in a shooting at a gay nightclub in Colorado Springs

[billd766]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The Far Right Is Already Attacking the Club Q Hero

After tackling the shooter in Colorado Springs, veteran Richard Fierro is receiving a torrent of online hate.

 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/93avba/colorado-shooting-club-q-richard-fierro

Having read the link IMHO the right wingers are nothing but a sad replica of humanity. Sick bar stewards. My apologies to real bar stewards.

[ozimoron]

What I find curious is that if this murderer really was non-binary, he wasn't known to the club's owners. Club Q is apparently a long time (20 years), famous gay club in a medium sized town. These communities are pretty tight knit I understand.

 

link above (newsweek).

[billd766]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

I can see 3 examples of misgendering in what you said there.   The murderer has made it perfectly clear their pronouns are they/their as they identify as non-binary.   A fine example of right-wing transphobic bigotry right here.   

What a load of bovine excretia.

 

You seem to care more about words than the fact that 5, count them, 5, people were brutally murdered and at least 18 people were injured by a homicidal maniac.

 

If that is your best response you need not have bothered.

 

Did you ever hear this saying?

 

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.

 

Used to express indifference to an insult or abuse.

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

What I find curious is that if this murderer really was non-binary, he wasn't known to the club's owners. Club Q is apparently a long time (20 years), famous gay club in a medium sized town. These communities are pretty tight knit I understand.

 

link above (newsweek).

I really don't know and probably nobody else does except the shooter.

 

However as speculation is afoot my guess at this point is that the shooter is queer and didn't feel accepted by the local queer community. 

 

If they weren't accepting  who would be?

 

Can queer on queer violence be a hate crime? I think yes.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Jingthing

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I really don't know and probably nobody else does except the shooter.

 

However as speculation is afoot my guess at this point is that he is queer and didn't feel accepted by the local queer community. 

How many queer people do you know own AR-15's? They should at last have known who he was if they didn't accept him. Not being gay, I can't comment definitively but I always understood that queer people were generally accepting of other non straight people.

 

It would be the first time I've ever heard of a mass shooting perpetrated by a queer person. Just saying...

Edited November 24, 2022 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

Former neighbor says Club Q shooting suspect made hateful comments toward LGBTQ community

"This is not the type of person I would take around my gay friends," he said.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/club-q-shooting/former-neighbor-says-club-q-suspect-hated-lgbtq-community/73-d705c231-24c2-496e-ac20-bfe3e373d9f4

[Jingthing]

52 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

How many queer people do you know own AR-15's? They should at last have known who he was if they didn't accept him. Not being gay, I can't comment definitively but I always understood that queer people were generally accepting of other non straight people.

 

It would be the first time I've ever heard of a mass shooting perpetrated by a queer person. Just saying...

 

He grew up in gun culture areas. 

 

LGBT are human. It's not a group of angels.

 

Try visiting the hot bars in West Hollywood if you're over 30.

 

I'm not really a specialist in such matters but I recall it was reported that the shooter at the Pulse nightclub massacre had been there before for hookups.

 

Again I don't know the motive. Just speculation.

 

If I'm right usually such people would have committed suicide instead.

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Former neighbor says Club Q shooting suspect made hateful comments toward LGBTQ community

"This is not the type of person I would take around my gay friends," he said.

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/club-q-shooting/former-neighbor-says-club-q-suspect-hated-lgbtq-community/73-d705c231-24c2-496e-ac20-bfe3e373d9f4

OK.

The plot thickens.

But that doesn't prove anything. 

Could have suffered from Internalized homophobia and or been protecting a closet with hate speech. Not uncommon at all.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Jingthing

[placeholder]

On 11/22/2022 at 10:27 AM, anyone said:

Everyone has a right to their beliefs, right? Its called freedom of speech.

You seem to believe that we gallery and morality are the same thing. That if something is legal therefore it's also moral.

[heybruce]

I think it's pointless to speculate on what was going on in that twisted mind; we are unlikely to ever know.  I advise avoiding that rabbit hole.

 

Nothing justifies the murders and I hope he is locked up for life.  I don't care if it is prison or an asylum.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The Far Right Is Already Attacking the Club Q Hero

After tackling the shooter in Colorado Springs, veteran Richard Fierro is receiving a torrent of online hate.

 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/93avba/colorado-shooting-club-q-richard-fierro

After advising on speculation about what is going on in a sick mind, I now can't resist posting:

 

Whenever I encounter someone who is publicly and virulently anti-gay, my first thought is "Methinks he doth protest too much".

 

Full disclosure:  I think people who are in deep denial of their own sexuality can become very warped individuals.

[Bkk Brian]

55 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OK.

The plot thickens.

But that doesn't prove anything. 

Could have suffered from Internalized homophobia and or been protecting a closet with hate speech. Not uncommon at all.

The facts are we just don't know yet, its only his lawyers mentioning this in his defense, that cannot be authenticated at all at this time. My personal opinion being that its just a play by them but obviously I could be wrong. I find it very disturbing the extreme hate speech being thrown out by the right in the VICE article posted earlier, QAnon have even got hold if it now claiming its a false flag, we know how many extreme right wingers support their conspiracy theories.

[Scott]

8 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

This is that father that the accused has had virtually no contact with for several years and lives a thousand miles away? How could anything he says have any bearing on the subject?  Oh yeah, it may be a way to hang a political motive on the shooter.....

He is the father and he has obviously had an impact on his son.  Here's a quote from one of the articles:

 

“I praised him for violent behavior really early. I told him it works. It is instant and you'll get immediate results,” the father said.

 

That gives a little insight into what this guy was exposed to at a very early age.  Given that the father is/was a MMA fighter and worked in porn, he was exposed to a very different upbringing than the average kid.

 

The father also noted that he was Mormon and made the following statement:

 

“You know Mormons don't do gay. We don't do gay. There's no gays in the Mormon church. We don't do gay,” Brink said.

 

Aldrich also changed his name, and according to the mother, it was a reaction to his father's involvement in a reality show:

When Brink asked his ex-wife why their son had changed his name, she blamed it on the father’s involvement in a reality TV show called Intervention, as well as his acting career in the adult film industry.

 

About 6 months ago, Aldrich initiated contact with his father:

 

Aldrich unexpectedly called his father six months ago, and started arguing with him over the phone.

 

Based on what has been reported, I'd say his father has had an impact on Aldrich's life.  IMO, Aldrich grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family that happens to be conservative.  Conservatives and deeply religious people are capable of accepting children who do not fit with their idea of normal.  Dick Cheney's acceptance of his gay daughter is just one example.

[Martin71]

Just seen pictures of the shooter in police custody, he must have been   restrained quite ' vigorously restrained ' as it looks like a herd of elephants had a dance contest on his head ....fair play to the people that stopped his rampage in this way....

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Martin71 said:

Just seen pictures of the shooter in police custody, he must have been   restrained quite ' vigorously restrained ' as it looks like a herd of elephants had a dance contest on his head ....fair play to the people that stopped his rampage in this way....

Yes, he's a mess. Hope he never sees freedom.

[alex8912]

2 hours ago, Scott said:

He is the father and he has obviously had an impact on his son.  Here's a quote from one of the articles:

 

“I praised him for violent behavior really early. I told him it works. It is instant and you'll get immediate results,” the father said.

 

That gives a little insight into what this guy was exposed to at a very early age.  Given that the father is/was a MMA fighter and worked in porn, he was exposed to a very different upbringing than the average kid.

 

The father also noted that he was Mormon and made the following statement:

 

“You know Mormons don't do gay. We don't do gay. There's no gays in the Mormon church. We don't do gay,” Brink said.

 

Aldrich also changed his name, and according to the mother, it was a reaction to his father's involvement in a reality show:

When Brink asked his ex-wife why their son had changed his name, she blamed it on the father’s involvement in a reality TV show called Intervention, as well as his acting career in the adult film industry.

 

About 6 months ago, Aldrich initiated contact with his father:

 

Aldrich unexpectedly called his father six months ago, and started arguing with him over the phone.

 

Based on what has been reported, I'd say his father has had an impact on Aldrich's life.  IMO, Aldrich grew up in an extremely dysfunctional family that happens to be conservative.  Conservatives and deeply religious people are capable of accepting children who do not fit with their idea of normal.  Dick Cheney's acceptance of his gay daughter is just one example.

The dad was a meth head as well. I think that really can affect your brain , demeanor and personality. He just presents himself as quite out there on the interview that is circulating. He also got banged up fighting as well. There's a lot of brain missing in that guys head. What a POS dad.  

[SunnyinBangrak]

On 11/21/2022 at 6:12 AM, Jingthing said:

If anyone is surprised by this, they really shouldn't be.

 

Op-Ed: Club Q shooting in Colorado Springs follows six brutal years of Republican anti-LGBTQ rhetoric (msn.com)

 

 

 

Well if its any consolation, Colorado's gay governor will likely do a better job dealing with this than anti LGBT demagogue DeSantis did with the Pulse massacre.

 

Florida Gov DeSantis vetoes mental health funding for Pulse shooting survivors – The Hill

 

This serves as an excellent reminder why leaping to conclusions, particularly ones that suit a popular narrative is unwise in the extreme. 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

This serves as an excellent reminder why leaping to conclusions, particularly ones that suit a popular narrative is unwise in the extreme. 

You can add the Anti Gun folks, (Dems) to that also.   Immediately using and pushing more gun control.   As if there aren't enough already.

 

If they'd simply enforce the laws on the books, they wouldn't need new ones that keep guns from legal folks.

 

The Dem run city / prosecutor  decided not to charge the shooter in an earlier incident, where it's on record, that he threatened his family with a 'bomb'...yea, a bomb.  That force his neighbors to evacuate and police intervention to talk him into surrendering.

 

Not only did they not charge him, they failed to impose Colorado’s red-flag laws, which would have banned him from purchasing a firearm.

 

Failed system once again.  I guess charging a non binary black man would have appeared too oppressive to the 'special interests' folks.

 

So not a right wing motivated hate crime, or lax gun law shooting.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

58 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

The Dem run city / prosecutor  decided not to charge the shooter in an earlier incident, where it's on record, that he threatened his family with a 'bomb'...yea, a bomb.  That force his neighbors to evacuate and police intervention to talk him into surrendering.

 

Not only did they not charge him, they failed to impose Colorado’s red-flag laws, which would have banned him from purchasing a firearm.

 

Failed system once again.  I guess charging a non binary black man would have appeared too oppressive to the 'special interests' folks.

 

So not a right wing motivated hate crime, or lax gun law shooting.

 

 

The 2021 bomb incident was in El Paso County, Colorado. This reliably Republican territory has seen a fair bit of attention, and it is clearly where the Trump campaign has tried to take a stand. The sheriff Bill Elder of El Paso County stridently opposed a 2020 “red flag” law that authorizes the courts to bar dangerous individuals from possessing or purchasing firearms. Elder was also vocal in supporting an anti-red flag resolution passed unanimously by county commissioners.

 

You can view security camera footage of that incident where he is dressed in body armour, helmet etc

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2022/11/21/colorado-club-q-shooting-suspect-2021-police-standoff-facebook-video-tsr-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/

 

You're mistaken, he's not black and there is certainly no confirmation from Aldrich that he is non binary, that's a statement from his lawyers only. The best that can be applied to that is "alleged"

 

His mother Laura Voepel in a facebook post (since deleted) one day before the nightclub murders was clearly referring to him as male. "son" "him" 

 

Anderson Lee Aldrich sent mother chilling message hours before Colorado Springs shooting

https://twitter.com/ChudsOfTikTok/status/1595270795009351680

 

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

This serves as an excellent reminder why leaping to conclusions, particularly ones that suit a popular narrative is unwise in the extreme. 

Yes, one shouldn't leap to conclusions.  For example, one shouldn't assume that a sexually confused young man raised by an anti-gay father would not be influenced by anti-LGBTQ rhetoric. 

 

We don't know what motivated this person.

[Hanaguma]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, he's a mess. Hope he never sees freedom.

On this we can agree. He was quite a big lad too, something like 6 foot 5 and 300 pounds. Again congrats to the vet who tackled him and 'encouraged' him to wait for the police.  

[Hanaguma]

12 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes, one shouldn't leap to conclusions.  For example, one shouldn't assume that a sexually confused young man raised by an anti-gay father would not be influenced by anti-LGBTQ rhetoric. 

 

We don't know what motivated this person.

God forbid we wait for more information. Even worse, acknowledge that motivations can be complicated.   Not when there is a political narrative to push.  

 

Biden was spouting off today about banning "semi automatic weapons". What a joke. Guess nobody told Ol' Joe that virtually every firearm in America, from handgun to rifle, is semi automatic.  The media is trying to spin it as yet another "assault weapon" ban, but Joe didn't say that. He clearly said;

 

“The idea that we still allow semi-automatic weapons to be purchased is sick,”

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-say-renew-push-assault-weapons-ban-spate-mass-shootings-rcna58664

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes, one shouldn't leap to conclusions.  For example, one shouldn't assume that a sexually confused young man raised by an anti-gay father would not be influenced by anti-LGBTQ rhetoric. 

 

We don't know what motivated this person.

I agree with that.

We  don't know yet and we may never know.

For example the claim of non binary might either be true or a defense gambit.

Given the leading republican contender for president DeSantis is basing his candidacy on scapegoating LGBTQ people and Colorado is a more liberal state with a gay governor at least some politicalisation of this tragedy is inevitable. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Jingthing

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

God forbid we wait for more information. Even worse, acknowledge that motivations can be complicated.   Not when there is a political narrative to push.  

 

Biden was spouting off today about banning "semi automatic weapons". What a joke. Guess nobody told Ol' Joe that virtually every firearm in America, from handgun to rifle, is semi automatic.  The media is trying to spin it as yet another "assault weapon" ban, but Joe didn't say that. He clearly said;

 

“The idea that we still allow semi-automatic weapons to be purchased is sick,”

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-say-renew-push-assault-weapons-ban-spate-mass-shootings-rcna58664

The only one spouting off is you, its very clear what he was referring to. "President Joe Biden said Thursday he would make a renewed effort to enact a ban on assault-style rifles following a wave of mass shootings that have again put a spotlight on the nation’s gun laws."

From your own link

[Hanaguma]

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The only one spouting off is you, its very clear what he was referring to. "President Joe Biden said Thursday he would make a renewed effort to enact a ban on assault-style rifles following a wave of mass shootings that have again put a spotlight on the nation’s gun laws."

From your own link

It is also clear that the President doesn't know what he is talking about.  Semiautomatic weapons are NOT assault weapons.  Just more boilerplate anti gun rhetoric from the aggressively uninformed. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

It is also clear that the President doesn't know what he is talking about.  Semiautomatic weapons are NOT assault weapons.  Just more boilerplate anti gun rhetoric from the aggressively uninformed. 

In the United States, assault weapon is a controversial term used to define firearms with specified characteristics.[1] The definition varies among regulating jurisdictions, but usually includes semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine, a pistol grip, and sometimes other features

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

[Hanaguma]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

In the United States, assault weapon is a controversial term used to define firearms with specified characteristics.[1] The definition varies among regulating jurisdictions, but usually includes semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine, a pistol grip, and sometimes other features

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon

Simple logic. "Assault weapons" are semi automatic weapons. Yet the vast majority of semi automatic weapons are NOT "assault weapons". So the President was speaking out of his butt.  

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Simple logic. "Assault weapons" are semi automatic weapons. Yet the vast majority of semi automatic weapons are NOT "assault weapons". So the President was speaking out of his butt.  

The evidence i provided shows some else speaking out of their nether regions ????

[Hanaguma]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

The evidence i provided shows some else speaking out of their nether regions ????

The president said clearly he wanted to ban "semi automatic weapons". NOT "assault weapons"- he mentioned that much later.  At best he is confused, at worst misinformed.  What some call "assault weapons" are a small subset of firearms in general, and semi automatic firearms in particular.

 

It is a simple logic puzzle. All apples are fruit, but not all fruit are apples.

                                            All assault weapons are semi-auto, but not all semi-auto weapons are assault weapons.

[Hanaguma]

Interestingly, originally designed assault rifles were selective fire- they could either be semi automatic or fully automatic.  But most politicians in the US either confuse the meaning of semi and fully automatic, or just mean a scary looking gun.